Politics

[chicago51]

Not true. When a company makes more money, they expand, and hire more workers. And I have yet to hear of any company that doesn't want to expand.

Wal Mart has opened 3 stores in the past 12 months here. And that's just in the Houston area.

You're right. Nobody hires just to hire. You'd have workers standing around and doing nothing on your dime. what is the sense in that?

Thank God companies have more sense than that...otherwise they'd be like our government. A buncha guys standing around wasting money

Did companies not expand back the when the minimum wage higher compared to the cost of living?

 

[GoIrish41]

My personal opinion is that I think we would've evolved out of that without government.

Slavery would not exist today with our without the civil rights act.

The reason? It'd be a bad business decision. Especially with the growth of minority groups in this country.

You think business owners would think it was a bad business decision to have labor but no labor costs? They would LOVE it. The less purchasing power the minimum wage has, the more it becomes like that "business model." You say we would have grown out of it, but you are arguing to move closer toward it.

 

[irishpat183]

You think business owners would think it was a bad business decision to have labor but no labor costs? They would LOVE it. The less purchasing power the minimum wage has, the more it becomes like that "business model." You say we would have grown out of it, but you are arguing to move closer toward it.

The rise of human rights?

Nobody would dare, these days, do business with a company that was openly racist. Are you kidding me?

Hell, even when people LIE about companies being racist they take a huge hit.

You can have all the "free labor" you want...but if nobody will buy your product, it doesn't matter

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Slavery was actually already dying until the cotton gin. It's just too much up-front investment and maintenance and security costs. That's why Irishman would always be used for the dangerous jobs -- you never cared if they got malaria or injured. Replaceable = cheaper.

Its' the reason feudalism died. Nobody passed an amendment against it, it's just cheaper and easier to get wage laborers in the labor force. And as technology has progressed, morale has become more and more of a factor on productivity.

 

[Ndaccountant]

If they employed less people they would have less sales.

The whole idea of supply side economics is a sham. People hire for one reason and that reason is that workers to go to something that is going to make the company money. No company has ever said "Oh I got this huge tax break I am going to how a bunch of workers I don't need". No company has ever said "I got all this money sitting around from paying my workers so litte so I am going to hire more workers even though I can get by without them".

When a company hires it is because they need some sort of work related need they will. Companies don't how hire people they could get by without because they can afford to pay someone to do a wasteful role the really don't need. The economy today is all about efficency.

You assume that each level of worker offers the same amount of productivity, which is far from the truth. Additionally, you do not consider the motivation to find ways reduce labor usage, such as reducing scope of work of finding ways to automate. Companies are creative.

 

[Irish YJ]

Entitlements are earned benefits.

I am not saying there is no abuse in Medicaid, unemployment, food stamps, etc. Sure there are people that abuse.

There are tons people out there that try there best to make ends meat but can't seem to do so they really need do need some help. Then I suggest volunteer in a low income community for just a short period of time.

It is such a me society out there. No ever thinks they are going to be the one that loses their job. Nobody thinks they are going to be the one get a serious illness.

Personally I am not rich man nor do I come from a rich family. I grew up in a 50k family and I couldn't feel more blessed. I am tract to having a nice career in a growing health care field. Sure I got some debt to pay off but I can't complain.

According to some folks I should be happy and just F everyone else because I got mine. Sorry I just can't think that way.

The constitution talks about the general welfare. I think we start standing up for the real constitution not some omg Obama is coming to take your guns away fear mongering.

America with our crumpling roads, soon to be out dated electrical, communications, and transportation infrastructure, the growing income inequality is going be considered the richest third world countries. I can't drive a mile in Chicago with having to avoid a darn pot hole.

Believe it or not if you met me I am a very upbeat and positive guy. I actually don't think any of our problems is that bad and if we look to fixing our nation instead of destoying as much government as possible I think we can do a lot of great things.

So many things wrong with this as well.

First, to say entitlements are earned, is completely false. Unless you are re-writing the dictionary along with the Constitution. Entitlements are benefits granted by the government or program, or a persons feeling that they are owed something. Earning something is recieving something in exchange for effort. Check out Websters my friend.

Second.... regarding infrastructure. If you've been to non-3rd world countries in Western Europe, you will see that our infrastructure is better than most. If you want to compare us against some of the better 3rd World nations, go no farther than MX, BZ, Honduras, or any of the CA or SA countries. Paved roads, piped in gas, piped in water, sewer systems, all luxuries. Brown outs are frequent (I run a business in BZ and know), and communications is iffy at best. You're complaining about a pothole when these guys don't have a paved road to drive on. Ever had to dig a well or poor your sewage into a gutter. for internet, the most effort US citizens have to go through is to find the closest McD's or Starbucks.

Now I'm not saying we don't need to update or improve, but you are incredibly detached from reality here.

And about me,,, my family made less than 50k for a good portion of my growing up. Both parents came from large poor families of 10 or more kids. My mother grew up with an outhouse, 10 siblings, in a 4 room house. My father, a bit better, 9 siblings in a 2 bedroom. My mother went without food some nights during some challenging times to keep me fed in my early childhood. When things got a little beter, my parents busted their @$$es, both ot them to keep me in the neigborhood Catholic school. My mom got her GED, improved herself, and got a job with AT&T. My father went into the service, got out, and was the first person in his family to work his way through college, and became an accountant. Both improved their positions greatly without being entitled or given anything. I had to pay my way through college. I worked full time, paid as I went, and I graduated without debt. I now make a very good living as an executive of a fast growing technology company. I donate and volunteer regularly, and actually will be dropping off donations this weekend to a refugee center. My mother volunteers frequently and donates way more than a person at her age and on a limited income should.

My point above is, my family and I didn't need entitlements. We didn't need social programs. We didn't need big college loans. We worked hard and sacrificed to improve our situtions. We saved and paid our modest homes off. We give and help because it's the right thing to do, not because we are forced to by the government. The Constitution talks about inalienable rights, not entitlements. The Constituion does not talk about creating a welfare state. Today people believe thier country owes them something. I believe we owe our country something, and it's not high taxes. See JFK and Webster please.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

It is little wonder that your party lost the election if this is how you categorize people. Please, don't tell me what you think of blacks, hispanics and women.

You call people working minimum wage jobs "the dependency class?" Wow. You know they are working right? They aren't sucking off the government teet, they are trying to make a go at it even though they've been dealt a crap hand.

Ohhh the glorious race card from the left. And you claim I make outrageous comments. Stop labeling everyone as a victimized class of people who were dealt a "crap hand." Many of these people had opportunities and gave themselves a crap hand because of their own poor decisions/ discipline/ work habit/ whatever.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

So many things wrong with this as well.

First, to say entitlements are earned, is completely false. Unless you are re-writing the dictionary along with the Constitution. Entitlements are benefits granted by the government or program, or a persons feeling that they are owed something. Earning something is recieving something in exchange for effort. Check out Websters my friend.

Second.... regarding infrastructure. If you've been to non-3rd world countries in Western Europe, you will see that our infrastructure is better than most. If you want to compare us against some of the better 3rd World nations, go no farther than MX, BZ, Honduras, or any of the CA or SA countries. Paved roads, piped in gas, piped in water, sewer systems, all luxuries. Brown outs are frequent (I run a business in BZ and know), and communications is iffy at best. You're complaining about a pothole when these guys don't have a paved road to drive on. Ever had to dig a well or poor your sewage into a gutter. for internet, the most effort US citizens have to go through is to find the closest McD's or Starbucks.

Now I'm not saying we don't need to update or improve, but you are incredibly detached from reality here.

And about me,,, my family made less than 50k for a good portion of my growing up. Both parents came from large poor families of 10 or more kids. My mother grew up with an outhouse, 10 siblings, in a 4 room house. My father, a bit better, 9 siblings in a 2 bedroom. My mother went without food some nights during some challenging times to keep me fed in my early childhood. When things got a little beter, my parents busted their @$$es, both ot them to keep me in the neigborhood Catholic school. My mom got her GED, improved herself, and got a job with AT&T. My father went into the service, got out, and was the first person in his family to work his way through college, and became an accountant. Both improved their positions greatly without being entitled or given anything. I had to pay my way through college. I worked full time, paid as I went, and I graduated without debt. I now make a very good living as an executive of a fast growing technology company. I donate and volunteer regularly, and actually will be dropping off donations this weekend to a refugee center. My mother volunteers frequently and donates way more than a person at her age and on a limited income should.

My point above is, my family and I didn't need entitlements. We didn't need social programs. We didn't need big college loans. We worked hard and sacrificed to improve our situtions. We saved and paid our modest homes off. We give and help because it's the right thing to do, not because we are forced to by the government. The Constitution talks about inalienable rights, not entitlements. The Constituion does not talk about creating a welfare state. Today people believe thier country owes them something. I believe we owe our country something, and it's not high taxes. See JFK and Webster please.

Awesome.

 

[GoIrish41]

Not true. When a company makes more money, they expand, and hire more workers. And I have yet to hear of any company that doesn't want to expand.

Wal Mart has opened 3 stores in the past 12 months here. And that's just in the Houston area.

You're right. Nobody hires just to hire. You'd have workers standing around and doing nothing on your dime. what is the sense in that?

Thank God companies have more sense than that...otherwise they'd be like our government. A buncha guys standing around wasting money

Hey I don't come into Burger King and make fun of your job. I work for the government, and I can assure you that it is not a bunch of guys standing around and wasting money where I work. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever had a job that was more stressful, had a larger workload, or was as mentally exhausting. At other places it may be different, but it is certainly not like that everywhere in government. Indeed, most of the people I've worked with throughout my career have been pretty hard working.

 

[Irish YJ]

I can tell you one thing, the workers running the checkout lines at Costco are a hell of lot faster and more efficient than your average Walmart (or even Target) cashier. That higher starting wage also gets you a better class of worker.

And don't forget, minimum wage is just a starting point. If you are a hard worker and have potential, you will get a raise and/or promotion. If someone is stuck making minimum wage after a year or two on the job, I don't think that is due to the company's greed and insensitivity. That employee is doing the minimum, so he receives the minimum.

This is a very good point. I have hired several people out of minimum wage jobs. Hard workes in those jobs don't stay there long if they are productive, perform at a high level, are reliable, work well with people, and seek to improve themselves. I've hired several people out of QT (gas station/convenient store), Blockbuster, and Microcenter (retail). All of those people doubled if not triped their income.

For all the people moaning and groaning that minimum wage should be more... and that health care costs should be past on to businesses. When you have acutally hired and managed 100s of people, come talk to me. When you are responsible for the liveliehoods of people working at a small to midsize company, come talk to me about the rising costs of medical and taxes. I worked my way up the ladder at a large corp, and now an exec at small/mid size company. It's easy to moan all day long when you have not had to manage the well being of a company. Stop moaning, stop dreaming, stop saying poor me, and take control of your own life, and encourage others to take control of theirs. Entitlements only encourage reliance on government, and discourages improvement both at a self and community level.

 

[RDU Irish]

Okay I have a solution for the folks worried about minimum wage hurting small business. Raise the minimum wage and pass the small business tax cuts in the American Jobs Act (which I am sure noboby read even though I posted it and asked for feedback).

You realize your definition of business taxes are on profits while minimum wage increase would increase PAYROLL taxes. Service industries in particular probably pay WAY more in their portion of payroll taxes than they pay in income tax on profits. Consider a case of a 85% of revenue going to expenses (15% profit margin) and 80% of expenses going to wages. On $1 million of revenue the business would pay a maximum of $52,500 (35%) on entire $150,000 of profit. Contrast this to $680,000 of payroll that results in $104,040 of payroll tax (15.3%) and you can see how government has a great incentive to increase payroll costs and decrease profits.

Not to mention that getting business to profitability is not a given. You pay Payroll taxes whether you make money or not as a business.

Apply to small businesses, 90% of restaurants go broke within 5 years and you should see how this makes it even harder for small business to make it.

 

[DSully1995]

Ohhh the glorious race card from the left. And you claim I make outrageous comments. Stop labeling everyone as a victimized class of people who were dealt a "crap hand." Many of these people had opportunities and gave themselves a crap hand because of their own poor decisions/ discipline/ work habit/ whatever.

Im amazed at your outlook, you do believe your side is good and the other evil right? Anyway you do the same labeling that you apparently oppose, once this man feels empathy hes just another mindless zombie of the left. Plus I dont think their should be much argument some minorities are really disadvantaged in america, your stance should to question if the government is gonna be beneficial in their efforts to help, not calling people lazy.

 

[irishpat183]

Hey I don't come into Burger King and make fun of your job. I work for the government, and I can assure you that it is not a bunch of guys standing around and wasting money where I work. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever had a job that was more stressful, had a larger workload, or was as mentally exhausting. At other places it may be different, but it is certainly not like that everywhere in government. Indeed, most of the people I've worked with throughout my career have been pretty hard working.

That was more directed at congress and the white house.


Would you like fries with that?

 

[irishpat183]

Im amazed at your outlook, you do believe your side is good and the other evil right? Anyway you do the same labeling that you apparently oppose, once this man feels empathy hes just another mindless zombie of the left. Plus I dont think their should be much argument some minorities are really disadvantaged in america, your stance should to question if the government is gonna be beneficial in their efforts to help, not calling people lazy.

Like who?

 

[RDU Irish]

Disadvantaged relative to who? 95% of the world population or US citizens capable of making good decisions for themselves?

 

[DSully1995]

Like who?

Umm?

Black Median Household income: $33,460
(all races $50,502)

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Im amazed at your outlook, you do believe your side is good and the other evil right? Anyway you do the same labeling that you apparently oppose, once this man feels empathy hes just another mindless zombie of the left. Plus I dont think their should be much argument some minorities are really disadvantaged in america, your stance should to question if the government is gonna be beneficial in their efforts to help, not calling people lazy.

Every minority/ immigrant class that came here in the late 1800s/ early 1900s arrived poor and many worked their way out of that. They had to live in crowded ghettos, overcome a language barrier, racism (even against the Irish), disease and sickness, and lack of skills.

I really believe the red states and blue states in America show two very different philosphies and beliefs. We've never in our history been further apart. And I wouldn't shed a tear if we split the country into two. Everyone would be happy. The left/ blue states would get their nanny states with no republican "obstruction" and the right/ red states wouldn't feel like they're being forced into fundamental transformation and "forward."

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Hey I don't come into Burger King and make fun of your job. I work for the government, and I can assure you that it is not a bunch of guys standing around and wasting money where I work. In fact, I'm not sure I've ever had a job that was more stressful, had a larger workload, or was as mentally exhausting. At other places it may be different, but it is certainly not like that everywhere in government. Indeed, most of the people I've worked with throughout my career have been pretty hard working.

I don't think calling any particular gov't department "wasteful" is fair, unless there's evidence of that. But the fact is that gov't, by nature, isn't designed to be efficient.

Private companies seek profits, which are attained by cutting costs and pleasing customers who can choose not to buy their products. Gov't has neither of these problems -- they don't care about profits, so they aren't predisposed to seek out efficiencies, and aren't faced with the task of constantly pleasing customers because they have no competition. Their only fundamental concern is that they maintain their position as a department. To paraphrase Office Space, they only have to work hard enough not to get replaced.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Umm?

Black Median Household income: $33,460
(all races $50,502)

Family is the backbone of America, or used to be. Look at the number of black children born out of wedlock, then look at the literacy rates for young black children. Sad, staggering, and shouldn't happen.

Being a single parent isn't impossible, but it sure is harder.

 

[DSully1995]

Disadvantaged relative to who? 95% of the world population or US citizens capable of making good decisions for themselves?

Haha since when do developped countries compare themselves to the rest of the world? Id say relative to white people

 

[DSully1995]

Family is the backbone of America, or used to be. Look at the number of black children born out of wedlock, then look at the literacy rates for young black children. Sad, staggering, and shouldn't happen.

Being a single parent isn't impossible, but it sure is harder.

GREAT, Now where are a large chunk of the fathers? in prison for possession of marijuana? Turning to crime because they arent given the normal means to the american dream? Im not gonna try to convince you guys that anything should be done by gov (dunno if i think there should be or not) but atleast we can all see an issue.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Umm?

Black Median Household income: $33,460
(all races $50,502)

I'm sure there are a lot of people who are victims of prejudice, but the fact that you make less money than a random other person doesn't necessarily mean you had less "advantages" than that person.

That just sounds like a crutch to blame someone else because your job sucks or you're jealous of the dude in the Benz.

 

[connor_in]

What about the other 25 percent?

Have you tried living on 150% of the poverty line for a long period of time?

There was talk of putting in a provision to keep minimum wage lower for teenagers.

So your arguement is that things are not that bad. Fair enough maybe not. What is down side hear. Kill jobs? Inflation? Every study I have looked doesn't seem have a significant effect on either good or bad. Show me some evidence on the downside and maybe I'll consider your view point.

Been working all morning and haven't looked in until now...

chicago...I understand that you are concerned about these people and that is fantastic, but when you are asking about the other 25%, per the post you were responding to that is 25% of the 2.9% of working americans who are making minimum wage. Thus you are referring to 0.725% of working americans in your post...less than 1 % - ACA, the legislative jewel in the crown of the current admin, while hyped to cover everyone when before Congress, actually leaves a far far greater percentage of people still without tan the final percentage your are referring to in the response above (min wage increases actually would affect far more than that because the increase you seek is many raises above the current minimum wage...thus your post didn't press your point hard enough)

My thing on this is...the minimum wage is a compromise of hiring vs paying...it all comes down to the ol would you rather game

Would You Rather....
raise minimum wage to a certain level above its current one (pardon me for lack of certain knowledge but thought you referenced $11 or so earlier-if incorrect please let me know) and have fewer people employed (the money pool for employers to pay employees is limited- so as wages increase employers will let some people go)

or

minimum wage at current level or small bump and have employers keep approximately the same amount of employees

 

[RDU Irish]

Haha since when do developped countries compare themselves to the rest of the world? Id say relative to white people

This racist SOB just said minorities are incapable of making decisions for themselves.

 

[connor_in]

Record 89,304,000 Americans 'Not in Labor Force' -- 296,000 Fewer Employed Since January | CNS News

The number of Americans designated as "not in the labor force" in February was 89,304,000, a record high, up from 89,008,000 in January, according to the Department of Labor. This means that the number of Americans not in the labor force increased 296,000 between January and February.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) labels people who are unemployed and no longer looking for work as “not in the labor force,” including people who have retired on schedule, taken early retirement, or simply given up looking for work.

The increase marks the second month in a row, after rising in January from 88.8 million in December. Those not in the labor force had declined in December from 88.9 million in November.

The nation's unemployment rate decreased to 7.7 percent in February, down from 7.9 percent in January. Overall unemployment “has shown little movement, on net, since September 2012,” the Labor Department said.

Just wanted to bring this up in reference to yesterday's discussion concerning the statement "most people are better off now than they were in 2008"

 

[Irish YJ]

Too many people are forgetting choice is a huge factor here. See above my background. I've not been perfect, nor has my family that's for sure. But we struggled and sacraficed to get an education. We worked hard starting at the bottom. We spent modestly and saved. We relied on ourselves and not the government. We did not have children that we could not support. Even though my parents grew up very poor in large families, they still made it work.

People today can elect to stay in school. They can elect to go to college (it doens't have to be expensive). They can elect to work hard and be productive. They can elect to use contraceptives. They can elect to raise their children the right way, even if a single parent (see contraceptive above). They can elect to drive a beater and live in a modest home instead of going into debt.

People, and this includes many of my neighbors and friends, do not elect to do these things. Is it my fault they do not?

IMO, choice is more the issue than race or anything else these days. That's one reason I donate and volunteer to the local refugee organization. The people there want to be productive citizens, and make good choices. They are not looking for handouts.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

GREAT, Now where are a large chunk of the fathers? in prison for possession of marijuana? Turning to crime because they arent given the normal means to the american dream? Im not gonna try to convince you guys that anything should be done by gov (dunno if i think there should be or not) but atleast we can all see an issue.

1) If the guy knew marijuana was illegal and he got caught, that's his own damn fault. No one else's. You don't get pardoned for breaking laws you don't agree with.

2) What are these "normal means" they weren't given? I know for a fact they were guaranteed "free" education from kindergarten through 12th grade.

My underlying point to your original fact of comparing median incomes between whites and minorities is this: it's more often a cultural issue than anything else. Not a racial one, not a sexist one, not a homophobic one.

 

[chicago51]

Not true. When a company makes more money, they expand, and hire more workers. And I have yet to hear of any company that doesn't want to expand.

Wal Mart has opened 3 stores in the past 12 months here. And that's just in the Houston area.

You're right. Nobody hires just to hire. You'd have workers standing around and doing nothing on your dime. what is the sense in that?

Thank God companies have more sense than that...otherwise they'd be like our government. A buncha guys standing around wasting money

In terms of expanding, maybe we should do one of the few smart things the EU is considering doing for banksters and instead we should just do it across the board. You can only issue bonuses up to 100 percent of one's salary.

If if the Fortune 500 companies stop issuing these crazy bonuses maybe they would even more capital for expansion. Not that I buy into the fact that if Walmart had to pay $10.10 an hour they would be too poor to expand.

 

[chicago51]

Been working all morning and haven't looked in until now...

chicago...I understand that you are concerned about these people and that is fantastic, but when you are asking about the other 25%, per the post you were responding to that is 25% of the 2.9% of working americans who are making minimum wage. Thus you are referring to 0.725% of working americans in your post...less than 1 % - ACA, the legislative jewel in the crown of the current admin, while hyped to cover everyone when before Congress, actually leaves a far far greater percentage of people still without tan the final percentage your are referring to in the response above (min wage increases actually would affect far more than that because the increase you seek is many raises above the current minimum wage...thus your post didn't press your point hard enough)

My thing on this is...the minimum wage is a compromise of hiring vs paying...it all comes down to the ol would you rather game

Would You Rather....
raise minimum wage to a certain level above its current one (pardon me for lack of certain knowledge but thought you referenced $11 or so earlier-if incorrect please let me know) and have fewer people employed (the money pool for employers to pay employees is limited- so as wages increase employers will let some people go)

or

minimum wage at current level or small bump and have employers keep approximately the same amount of employees

Okay again there is no hard evidence the minimum wage increases hurting employment. Some studies show unemployment going up just a tad not enough to claim statistical significance and some studies even show unemployment going down again not enough to claim statistical significance.

Nobody has brought up the economic stimulatory aspect of the minimum wage. Minimum wage earners spend virtually 100% of their income. Now when people who spend 100% of their income have a bit extra income it means that it is going be more purchasing thus more demand and more jobs.

This a pretty good debate between lefty radio host Thom Hartmann and right winger Phil Kerpen. I think it is a pretty good debate about the two sides of the issue.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tt9QT5UVAVc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[RDU Irish]

In terms of expanding, maybe we should do one of the few smart things the EU is considering doing for banksters and instead we should just do it across the board. You can only issue bonuses up to 100 percent of one's salary.

If if the Fortune 500 companies stop issuing these crazy bonuses maybe they would even more capital for expansion. Not that I buy into the fact that if Walmart had to pay $10.10 an hour they would be too poor to expand.

Minimum wage increases are inflationary. Walmart would charge more to account for the higher cost of doing business and they would remain the low cost provider given their operational efficiency. Restaurants are already charging more to account for their increased cost of doing business thanks to Obamacare (anyone else notice everything on the average menu is $1 more than a year ago?)

So if Walmart charges more, is that putting Mitt Romney and the DC millionaires out or is it putting out the poor and middle class who actually shop there? Inflation is a silent killer for the poor and middle class and it is no way to grow an economy. (Enter BO drinking beer pic from a couple pages ago). That is why I find it laughable when Obama's preferred policies punch the poor in the face while they embrace him as their savior.