Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

phgreek

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What we really need is growth. We can talk about spending cuts and higher taxes until we are blue in the face. When push comes to shove, it is mostly hot air. Until we fix growth, we are going nowhere. What really needs to happen is we need to establish targets and caps for spending and revenue as a % of GDP as well as a do not exceed annual deficit % of GDP. Until we get to this point, we are going to continue to have these issues. We need to stop the politics and discuss how we are going to get true economic growth that is sustainable and not temporary.

...I agree with this part...

I'm skeptical of the inflation part. Not that I question the theory you put forth...more that the increase cost of commodities (consumer sense of the word) can't all be explained by fuel prices...not saying we have hyper inflation, but feels worse than anytime in the last decade...
 

BobD

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Well we have about 17 hours left. What will they pull out of their a$ses?
 

Rizzophil

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I am actually going to make a counter arguement. First I think that businesses and rich abuse the handouts as much if not more than the poor abuse the welfare system.

Secondly if we wanted to fix the economy, we should be spending money on things that create jobs (infstructure, moslty fixing our current bridges, dams and roads that are crumbling) and borrowing what we can at low interest rates to do it while cutting our entitlement spending, defense spending and raising new revenue by raising tax rates on the rich. A nice balanced approach that helps get the unemployed people working would be a great way to fix the issue. Too bad our politicians (both sides) don't know what the word compromise means or how to do it.

Government cannot and should not try and create jobs. That is why were are in the mess. The more the government tries to get involved in the economy, the worse things turnout.
 

chicago51

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I am actually going to make a counter arguement. First I think that businesses and rich abuse the handouts as much if not more than the poor abuse the welfare system.

Secondly if we wanted to fix the economy, we should be spending money on things that create jobs (infstructure, moslty fixing our current bridges, dams and roads that are crumbling) and borrowing what we can at low interest rates to do it while cutting our entitlement spending, defense spending and raising new revenue by raising tax rates on the rich. A nice balanced approach that helps get the unemployed people working would be a great way to fix the issue. Too bad our politicians (both sides) don't know what the word compromise means or how to do it.

Yes we should spend money on infastructure to create more jobs.

Government cannot and should not try and create jobs. That is why were are in the mess. The more the government tries to get involved in the economy, the worse things turnout.

We are in this mess because there was no regulations in the housing market (lack of government). Don't get me wrong I think sometimes the government oversteps its bounds but Laissez-faire economics are not the way to go either.

I got more faith in an elected officals that have answer to people that put them in office doing what is best for me much more than I do Donald Trump who is in it to make the most he can for himself. Not knocking Trump or any other wealthy owner or CEO, every is out to do the best they can for themselves, that is why there needs to be some system that ensures fair play.

THE GOVERNMENT SAVED THE BANKS FROM FAILING

THE GOVERNMENT SAVED THE AUTO INDUSTRY FROM FAILING

It is probably okay with you republicans though that government puts policies in place that take away from collective bargaining rights of unions. Don't here much complaint about that.
 
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chicago51

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Would also like to add I don't recall reading or remembering it ever being like this with so much grid lock in DC.

In the past we always seem to get stuff done right or wrong. For example Bill Clinton and republican speaker of the House in the 1990s New Gingrich could not have disagreed on issues but always seem together when stuff really needed to get done.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Yes we should spend money on infastructure to create more jobs.

This is a massive (literally) misnomer. Incorrect infrastructure spending has made things worse. Much worse. The jobs created are 1) construction (read: temporary) or simply 2) a movement of other jobs.

If you build a new highway, all you've done is create another massive structure that the state now needs to provide maintenance for. That increased their long-term costs dramatically. If you expand a highway, now you've just increased the incentive to drive and promoted the need for more highways...see the previous sentence. Building these highways simply moves the wealth/jobs outward. Our malls are literally fake downtowns built next to highways and completely owned by some business/corporation; essentially we've given corporations whole towns. When you "create jobs," a lot of the times you've just weakened (or often, destroyed) this:

pc270095.jpg


in favor of this:

empty-mall.jpg


Hell it even gets to the point in which malls will cannibalize other malls, and their owners/land speculators will shout "look at X jobs created!" "look at the tax base created!" when in all reality they just moved the wealth and it happened to be across a city or county line.

It's an uncommon and sad situation where the Democrats get their rocks off on handing big cash to labor unions, Republicans look pro-business and both tout "job job jobs!" while they are both demonstrably destroying this country.

We are in this mess because there was no regulations in the housing market (lack of government). Don't get me wrong I think sometimes the government oversteps its bounds but Laissez-faire economics are not the way to go either.

Horribly, horribly false. The government quite literally tried to give everyone a house. The government was the problem. I too do not advocate laissez-faire, but that isn't what happened.

I got more faith in an elected officals that have answer to people that put them in office doing what is best for me much more than I do Donald Trump who is in it to make the most he can for himself. Not knocking Trump or any other wealthy owner or CEO, every is out to do the best they can for themselves, that is why there needs to be some system that ensures fair play.

lol wut. This is that weak argument of "it's either the government or the business." It's insane. Congress, or even the President, haven't answered to Americans in quite some time. Hell Obama doubled down on many of George Bush's worst policies. You think they have you back? Don't be so blind.

This federal government is so in bed with corporations it isn't even funny. When you see a government that wants to promote optimal competition (that has been proven to increase the standard of living for everyone), a la Teddy Roosevelt, then I'll have faith in them. Until then, the corporation you vilify and the federal government you place your hope in are THE SAME DAMN THING.

THE GOVERNMENT SAVED THE BANKS FROM FAILING

THE GOVERNMENT SAVED THE AUTO INDUSTRY FROM FAILING

It is probably okay with you republicans though that government puts policies in place that take away from collective bargaining rights of unions. Don't here much complaint about that.

Nor should there be, especially in the public sector. Hell the massive cost of labor is a big reason why infrastructure is so damn expensive. Source: my family owns a road construction company that turned 100 this summer.

And the government shouldn't have saved any business or bank from failing. Too big to fail should mean that you are too big to exist. When profits are privatized and losses are socialized, everything is ***-backwards.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Would also like to add I don't recall reading or remembering it ever being like this with so much grid lock in DC.

In the past we always seem to get stuff done right or wrong. For example Bill Clinton and republican speaker of the House in the 1990s New Gingrich could not have disagreed on issues but always seem together when stuff really needed to get done.

Congress likes to agree on that's that are terrible for the country. Congress agreed on invading Iraq (read: handout to military-industrial complex). Congress agreed on No Child Left Behind (read: handout to teachers unions, and usurping the power of the states). Congress agreed on the Patriot Act and things like FISA (read: completely destroying the Constitution's protections for its citizens and ignoring privacy).

If you're going to talk about Clinton and Gingrich, at least be cognizant of a little thing called the Internet Bubble (which the Feds replaced with the Housing Bubble, and now with the low-credit bubble) and know that they never balanced a budget and are lying to people when they say they did. Let me repeat, they never balanced a budget. They did however benefit from slashing the military (which we need to do, by 30% easily) and tax receipt increases from the boom.
 

chicago51

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Hell Obama doubled down on many of George Bush's worst policies. You think they have you back? Don't be so blind.

For what is it is worth I do regret voting for Obama. Not over McCain in 2008 or Romney in 2012.

I regret voting for him over Hillary Clinton in 2008.
 

chicago51

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They did however benefit from slashing the military (which we need to do, by 30% easily) and tax receipt increases from the boom.

One good thing about going off the fiscal cliff is there is a much greater cut to millitary spending than any deal would get out of Congress. Every economic expert seems to expect a 3 to 4% decline GDP if we go over so I'm all for getting a deal. That being said we do need cut millitary spending. As far the cliff goes we did have these taxes before and somehow survivied (yes I realive today is different than 1995 which is why I do still want a deal) so I'm not going to panic if we do go off the cliff.
 
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Buster Bluth

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For what is it is worth I do regret voting for Obama. Not over McCain in 2008 or Romney in 2012.

I regret voting for him over Hillary Clinton in 2008.

They're all the same thing. Hell Romney was probably the least like them and he was the one in business the most.
 

NDFANnSouthWest

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CNN projects if we go over the fiscal Cliff - for a single person/no kids earning 50K a year taxes go up $1559...and married/two kids earning 100K taxes go up $5314. And a projected increase in unemployed from 7.7% to climb to 9.1%.
 

chicago51

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CNN projects if we go over the fiscal Cliff - for a single person/no kids earning 50K a year taxes go up $1559...and married/two kids earning 100K taxes go up $5314. And a projected increase in unemployed from 7.7% to climb to 9.1%.

The thing is that after you loose your job the extended unemployment coverage is ending so you get less protection. Kinda of ironic

The projection you are reffering to is if we go over and stay over. I do think the news outlets are pumping this up to create a crisis so we all watch. If we do go over and say pass a bill on 1st day of the new Congress (Jan 4th) to cut taxes, extend unemployment benefits it won't be as bad as that projection. Washington then could also then work out the spending cuts part of the cliff as part of the agreement to raise the debt ceiling that will have to be done within next 2 months.

Now if we go over and stay over that is a different story. I don't think we will. Reason being is that it is easier for certain factions of congress to vote for a tax decrease after the cliff as opposed to what would be a tax increase (which the president wants on the top 2%) today. Yes the taxes will be the same rather they vote to raise them today's rates or cut them next week from over the cliff Clinton rates but they think people are too stupid to realize that.
 
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chicago51

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Could be a fiscal agreement at the 11th hour. Sides did agree on taxes. 400K+ and up for singles and 450K+ for couples will go back up to the Clinton era rates. As opposed the 200K and 250K that president wanted or the full extension of Busch tax cuts for all incomes that republicans. Estate tax which was at 35 percent and set to increase to 55 percent has been agreed to be increased to 40 percent.

Extension of unemployment benefits and protect doctors treating medicare patient's from a 27 percent decrease in reimbursement also likely to be in the deal.

Sides still very far apart on other issues.

Don't know if the $110 billion spending sequester set to go into affect will be part of the deal or not.
 
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phgreek

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Reid will submarine this with some out of left field add in, or other chicanery

or..

The Tea party folks will say Go pound sand to everyone

I see both sides as needing to look engaged, but neither wanting to explain concessions
 

Ndaccountant

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Could be a fiscal agreement at the 11th hour. Sides did agree on taxes. 400K+ and up for singles and 450K+ for couples will go back up to the Clinton era rates. As opposed the 200K and 250K that president wanted or the full extension of Busch tax cuts for all incomes that republicans. Estate tax which was at 35 percent and set to increase to 55 percent has been agreed to be increased to 40 percent.

Extension of unemployment benefits and protect doctors treating medicare patient's from a 27 percent decrease in reimbursement also likely to be in the deal.

Sides still very far apart on other issues.

Don't know if the $110 billion spending sequester set to go into affect will be part of the deal or not
.

It will be delayed and it won't matter anyway. The debt ceiling increase that is coming will take care of that. That will be more painful that what just happened.
 

Ndaccountant

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Just because I found this intersting......

63.6%: Labor force participation rate in December, down from 64% in August 2011 and a rate of more than 66% before the financial crisis. This was scary last quarter and remains troubling now. Some of the decline is explained by an aging population, but the sudden decline in the workforce seems to point to some structural problems in the job market.

4.8: Millions of people who have been unemployed for more than 27 weeks as of December, unchanged from November. Even as job growth continues at a steady pace, the economy still faces the major problem of getting the long-term unemployed back to work before their skills atrophy or they drop out of the workforce completely.

17 Scary Numbers From the Fourth Quarter
 

phgreek

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Just because I found this intersting......



17 Scary Numbers From the Fourth Quarter


Ah, give it a couple months...the Chicago Machine, coupled with an academia that has convinced the general public that an Elephant can indeed hang by its tail from a dandilion...and finally a Nanny press corp... They will have 17 answers. Here lemme just get to the basis for all of it...Its Bush's fault...
 

chicago51

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Just because I found this intersting......



17 Scary Numbers From the Fourth Quarter

Yea unfortunately the government (both parties) thinking on fixing the problem is backwards as well. Fixing the deficit will not fix the economy but fixing the economy will fix the debt. How do you fix the economy? Not sure there are smarter people than me that can figure it out. We can't afford another large scale stimulus but some kind of job bills with tax incentives for creating jobs in the US would be nice.


A big thing to help the economy would be fixing the 1 billion dollar a day trade deficit (imports vs exports). Since import tariffs were done away with, virtually every other country but the US added a VAT (Value Added Tax) to replace them. If we had VAT tax that started really small but increase exponentially it raise prices on imports and make US made products more competive which would create more jobs in house. We need to do something to get a grip on competing with China's wages.
 

Ndaccountant

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Yea unfortunately the government (both parties) thinking on fixing the problem is backwards as well. Fixing the deficit will not fix the economy but fixing the economy will fix the debt. How do you fix the economy? Not sure there are smarter people than me that can figure it out. We can't afford another large scale stimulus but some kind of job bills with tax incentives for creating jobs in the US would be nice.


A big thing to help the economy would be fixing the 1 billion dollar a day trade deficit (imports vs exports). Since import tariffs were done away with, virtually every other country but the US added a VAT (Value Added Tax) to replace them. If we had VAT tax that started really small but increase exponentially it raise prices on imports and make US made products more competive which would create more jobs in house. We need to do something to get a grip on competing with China's wages.

Should we be nominating you to take over the Fed?
 

BobD

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Just out of curiosity.....

Why do we spend millions to inaugurate someone who's already president?

Anyone else think it's a waste?
 

Rack Em

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I agree to a certain extent, but a President has a 4 year term limit. Obama is technically not president unless he is inaugurated again.

But spending millions to do it again? I'm with you on that. Then again, the Obamas fly to Hawaii on separate flights. Lots of wasteful spending that's been going on in the White House for years.
 

DSully1995

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I agree to a certain extent, but a President has a 4 year term limit. Obama is technically not president unless he is inaugurated again.

But spending millions to do it again? I'm with you on that. Then again, the Obamas fly to Hawaii on separate flights. Lots of wasteful spending that's been going on in the White House for years.

years even before obama, and inauguration isnt it written in your beloved constitution? it must be done
 

chicago51

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The president and his wife have to be sick of these inaugural balls there is like 8 of them in like 3 days.
 
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BobD

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I agree to a certain extent, but a President has a 4 year term limit. Obama is technically not president unless he is inaugurated again.

But spending millions to do it again? I'm with you on that. Then again, the Obamas fly to Hawaii on separate flights. Lots of wasteful spending that's been going on in the White House for years.

It's not just the Obamas. Winning and election nowadays has become like hitting the lottery. They have perks that are plain stupid.
 

chicago51

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Lol, "inaugural balls" makes me laugh.

Apparently the president canceled some because there were too many now a bunch of vip type folks are all dissapointed the POTUS ain't coming to their particular ball.
 
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I agree to a certain extent, but a President has a 4 year term limit. Obama is technically not president unless he is inaugurated again.

But spending millions to do it again? I'm with you on that. Then again, the Obamas fly to Hawaii on separate flights. Lots of wasteful spending that's been going on in the White House for years.

If you want to talk about wasteful spending, take a look at George W. Bush. He took a record $300 billion surplus and turned it into a record trillion dollar deficit. He took more vacation time than any president in American history. He also spent a fortune on misdirected wars and huge tax cuts for the super wealthy. Also, his war mongering vice-president famously said that deficits don't matter.
 
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