Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352
B

Buster Bluth

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Rule of thumb: if the Republicans say they won, and the Democrats say they won, then it's probably a tie.

#SelfAwareness

I'm not saying Ryan won. He didn't. I thought for a good stretch of it that it was a complete disaster on both sides. I was honestly expecting some arguing at some points.


Biden crushed him on the stimulus. But that was my criticism of Ryan in the first place, he voted for all of that bullshit.

Ryan didn't point out a lot of stuff I would have liked for him to have pointed out.

Can anyone remember the last time a VP debate gave a campaign a bump? I can't. But then again, I'm only like 19 years old...
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
Charles Krauthammer said it pretty well, to paraphrase: if you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on tv the demeanor undid his win. That's simply how I saw it.
 

IrishJayhawk

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I'm not saying Ryan won. He didn't. I thought for a good stretch of it that it was a complete disaster on both sides. I was honestly expecting some arguing at some points.


Biden crushed him on the stimulus. But that was my criticism of Ryan in the first place, he voted for all of that bullshit.

Ryan didn't point out a lot of stuff I would have liked for him to have pointed out.

Can anyone remember the last time a VP debate gave a campaign a bump? I can't. But then again, I'm only like 19 years old...

It doesn't typically do that. It has, occasionally, stopped bleeding. That could be what tonight does.

But, you wouldn't remember those debates, young padawan.
 

RyCo1983

Formerly known as TheFlyingAlamo
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I disagree. Biden looked more experienced and prepared. He demolished Ryan on the facts, and I think women are more likely to be swayed after that abortion spiel. Independents will see that Ryan dodged the facts and specifics on more than a few occasions. Ryan looked soft and unable to respond when he got called out on the facts.

^ This....
As an Independent living with a woman who is also an Independent...
This is the case at least for our household.

Ryan flat out seems like a snake oil salesman...albeit a thirsty snake oil salesman...who kind of reminds me of Kirk Cameron.
 

IrishJayhawk

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Charles Krauthammer said it pretty well, to paraphrase: if you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on tv the demeanor undid his win. That's simply how I saw it.

Krauthammer is one of the more partisan figures on the most ideologically pure network on cable news.

And that argument is totally cliche since Nixon-Kennedy.
 

Bluto

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Charles Krauthammer said it pretty well, to paraphrase: if you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on tv the demeanor undid his win. That's simply how I saw it.

I disagree with Krauthammer. Anyhow, all this reminds me of a communications class I took many, many years ago. If you haven't read it Marshall McLuhan's book The Medium is the Message is pretty great.
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
I really like Krauthammer. I try to tune in for about 15 minutes of Fox, the last 15 minutes on the Special Report with the "all-star panel." Now that's cliche.

Hannity right now has a focus group with Frank Luntz (I think?). They were like 75% Obama voters. I love these things. It's pretty unbiased, and the guy asks great questions and gets honest responses. As much as I despise Hannity, these things are really really solid.
 

Rhode Irish

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Charles Krauthammer said it pretty well, to paraphrase: if you heard it on radio, Biden won. If you watched it on tv the demeanor undid his win. That's simply how I saw it.

There probably isn't a person in America with less credibility than Krauthammer. If you think Romney won his debate, this was a massacre. Romney won on style without any substance. Biden won in the same way as Romney, only he won on substance too.
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
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The real loser is anyone who decided to watch the debate over other television programming... namely playoff baseball.
 

IrishJayhawk

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I really like Krauthammer. I try to tune in for about 15 minutes of Fox, the last 15 minutes on the Special Report with the "all-star panel." Now that's cliche.

Hannity right now has a focus group with Frank Luntz (I think?). They were like 75% Obama voters. I love these things. It's pretty unbiased, and the guy asks great questions and gets honest responses.

If you really think that Luntz is unbiased, you should really rethink your position. He's a hack. Not dumb...knows what he's doing. That's what makes him a mess. He knows that he's playing the part of unbiased arbiter, but he's pushing an agenda.
 

Rhode Irish

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I'm not saying Ryan won. He didn't. I thought for a good stretch of it that it was a complete disaster on both sides. I was honestly expecting some arguing at some points.

Most people are saying this was one of the most "fiery" debates on record.

Biden crushed him on the stimulus. But that was my criticism of Ryan in the first place, he voted for all of that bullshit.

Ryan didn't point out a lot of stuff I would have liked for him to have pointed out.

Can anyone remember the last time a VP debate gave a campaign a bump? I can't. But then again, I'm only like 19 years old...

Seems like a good parallel with '04. Kerry demolished Bush, but Cheney stopped the bleeding by crushing Edwards. Similar dynamic here.
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
If you really think that Luntz is unbiased, you should really rethink your position. He's a hack. Not dumb...knows what he's doing. That's what makes him a mess. He knows that he's playing the part of unbiased arbiter, but he's pushing an agenda.

What the **** has he done ever than ask people what they think?!
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

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Most people are saying this was one of the most "fiery" debates on record.



Seems like a good parallel with '04. Kerry demolished Bush, but Cheney stopped the bleeding by crushing Edwards. Similar dynamic here.

That's a pretty fair comparison... and what seems to be before us. Comparatively speaking...
 

Bluto

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The real loser is anyone who decided to watch the debate over other television programming... namely playoff baseball.

I was flipping between the debate and Call of the Wildman. I wonder if Turtle Man has endorsed anyone?
 

Rhode Irish

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What the **** has he done ever than ask people what they think?!

Luntz? Seriously? He is part of the problem. Buster, as much as I disagree with you on issues, I respect the fact that you've been anti-establishment with regard to the far right. Your defense of Romney is that he is more moderate than he's been running. You distance yourself from Hannity and Rush and Coulter and Beck. Luntz is of their ilk. You have credibility in my eyes as a center-right, economics-based type of person. Don't cite Luntz and blow that.
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
Their samples are ridiculous. He's known for skewing his wording of questions to prefer the republican position. That's maybe because he has always been employed by republicans.

Frank Luntz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the handful of times I've seen him ask focus groups questions, I haven't seen any slant.

I openly call out Republican bullshit to my friends when I make them watch debates and press conferences. I have no problems with doing so. But, I don't see it in the few times I've seen the groups.

Also, I don't consider them to be representative of anything other than those few people.

Always employed by Republicans. YUCK!!
 

Rhode Irish

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The real loser is anyone who decided to watch the debate over other television programming... namely playoff baseball.

Disagree. I was checking the score on my computer and will see all of the interesting stuff in the Yanks/O's game, and didn't miss a second of the debate.
 

IrishJayhawk

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In the handful of times I've seen him ask focus groups questions, I haven't seen any slant.

I openly call out Republican bullshit to my friends when I make them watch debates and press conferences. I have no problems with doing so. But, I don't see it in the few times I've seen the groups.

Also, I don't consider them to be representative of anything other than those few people.

Always employed by Republicans. YUCK!!

"Frank I. Luntz (born February 23, 1962) is an American political consultant, pollster, and Republican Party strategist."
 
B

Buster Bluth

Guest
Don't cite Luntz and blow that.

Sorry dude. I just haven't seen him be biased. When I see that, I'll stop watching.

He asked a group of people what they felt about the debate. He then asked them what they thought about each candidate. He then asked him if both, or one, or neither of them could be President in their eyes. He asked a few people to elaborate (who liked and dislikes opposites). He asked if anyone was 100% sure of their vote after watching this debate.

The questions were so simple and so quick. There. Was. No. Bias.

Jesus.
 

tadman95

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For VP debates, I tend to pay less attention to what they say (it's going to be the company line for the most part) and try to listen to how they say it. Are they knowledgeable about the issues? Does the person portray leadership and decisiveness in a manner that is thoughtful and well reasoned?

If that person is suddenly sitting behind the Oval Office desk, am I going to be reassured and confident the person has the experience and brain power to be a good president?
 
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B

Buster Bluth

Guest
"Frank I. Luntz (born February 23, 1962) is an American political consultant, pollster, and Republican Party strategist."

"And that makes him totally unqualified to ask a group of people what they thought about the debate for the rest of time. He can never be cool with a crowd or be honestly intrigued with responses of undecideds if he is involved in any way shape or form with the game."

Gotcha. Thanks.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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If that person is suddenly sitting behind the Oval Office desk, am I going to be reassured and confident the person has the experience and brain power to be a good president?

I'd rather have Biden than Ryan.
 

pkt77242

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In a single payer system who are you suggesting is "picking up the tab" for the insurance? Will companies be taxed? Will individuals be taxed? or Will it just be added to the debt?
You are exactly right, someone has to pay for it. However, issolating the issue of low wage workers pushed into part time work with no benefits these taxes are based on wage level, not per capita fixed costs.

In the example previously stated, a 10% tax on wages for example (expanding FICA to cover yet another entitlement) would increase minimum COST 10%, but that is way more cost effective than a 37.5% increase illustrated above! It soaks the higher wage person at 10% instead of 7.5%, which would kill wage growth for a year or two if implemented over night.

You also provide less difference between part time and full time costs since ALL wages are taxed 10% the marginal cost of someone working 31 hours instead of 29 hours is not astronomical (note the 37.5% cost is over an entire 40 hours, the marginal cost of two hours more per week is $75/hour in this example - a 750% increase in marginal cost). Even spreading that cost over 10 hours is still a 150% increase in marginal cost of labor.

I think this is a horrible idea, I am just trying to illustrate the effects of a stance on employers. At the end of the day, a consumption tax to replace virtually all taxes (corporate, estate, income, FICA, etc) is optimal with a monthly pre-bate to all citizens, per capita. Tax consumption not production, it rewards savers and gives corporations a global competitive advantage. It also, in effect, lowers the minimum wage since companies no longer pay a 7.65% FICA tax.

I don't know how your monthly pre-bate works but consumption taxes **** the poor and let the rich get off easy. Most poor and middle class people spend most if not all of their money, while the rich don't thus raising the real tax rate on the poor and lowering it on the rich. So unless your pre-bate basically gives the poor all of their taxes back, you are screwing them. Thanks and try again.
 
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