Politics

Politics

  • Obama

    Votes: 4 1.1%
  • Romney

    Votes: 172 48.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 13.1%
  • a:3:{i:1637;a:5:{s:12:"polloptionid";i:1637;s:6:"nodeid";s:7:"2882145";s:5:"title";s:5:"Obama";s:5:"

    Votes: 130 36.9%

  • Total voters
    352

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
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But do you actually not get why people wouldn't want to vote for Trump or are you being more rhetorical with this point? It's not personality. I could list a half dozen or so single events that should be disqualifying for someone to be President and they have nothing to do with lying, mean tweets, demeanor, language, etc.

The number of people that WANT to vote for him is very small, IMO. We are weighing two evils here. All the wannabe Puritans out there saying they "can't" vote for either is the pearl clutching beta move. Trump is barely a republican - what is he doing policy wise that is irreversibly damaging to this country? You can't be a serious person if you buy the dictator rhetoric - he was not in the Oval Office on Jan 21, 2021 so you can't honestly say he didn't step down.

Words versus action - what is the grievance? If you are hardline on specific policies then I can respect that. Not sure you can ever vote for any politician ever if "he lied about X" or "he groped someone" is the answer.
 

NorthDakota

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The number of people that WANT to vote for him is very small, IMO. We are weighing two evils here. All the wannabe Puritans out there saying they "can't" vote for either is the pearl clutching beta move. Trump is barely a republican - what is he doing policy wise that is irreversibly damaging to this country? You can't be a serious person if you buy the dictator rhetoric - he was not in the Oval Office on Jan 21, 2021 so you can't honestly say he didn't step down.

Words versus action - what is the grievance? If you are hardline on specific policies then I can respect that. Not sure you can ever vote for any politician ever if "he lied about X" or "he groped someone" is the answer.
I don't think the number is that small. He still dominated the Republican primary.
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
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I don't think the number is that small. He still dominated the Republican primary.

He got 56k primary votes in Iowa good for 51% of the primary. In 2020 he got 897,000 votes in Iowa to garner 53% of the 75% voter turnout. His primary supporters made up one in sixteen of the general election voters. No other state had a comprehensive list of alternatives. I voted Vivek in North Carolina but I am not sure it counted for anything since he had technically dropped out.

Thank you to everyone for the detailed policy answers on why Trump is totally unacceptable.
 

GATTACA!

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I voted Vivek
yikes-reaction-jennifer-lawrence-16otgtw8y7gvlgot.gif
 

StPaul_Irish

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I'm still trying to figure out how he looks old and clueless when in the public eye, but when he's behind closed doors he manages to be "Sharp as a Tack"? Weird how that works.

If they lied to us about Biden being on point and sharp, what else did they lie to us about? Also, they keep calling Trump a liar this/liar that, but it doesn't seem to matter that they lied about (Russia, China, Hunter, Laptop, Covid, Vaccines, Biden's fitness, Pelosi insider trading, her/Newsome not having to wear masks) I guess I could go on.... but it doesn't seem to matter. Nor does it matter that they called DJT a Racist Nazi when he put a travel ban on China, but... here we are...

I am not a "Trump" republican by any stretch, but I do have to call out the hypocrisy.... and my life/pocket book was a helluva lot better a few years ago pre Warzone world we live in now.
 

IrishLax

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The number of people that WANT to vote for him is very small, IMO. We are weighing two evils here. All the wannabe Puritans out there saying they "can't" vote for either is the pearl clutching beta move. Trump is barely a republican - what is he doing policy wise that is irreversibly damaging to this country? You can't be a serious person if you buy the dictator rhetoric - he was not in the Oval Office on Jan 21, 2021 so you can't honestly say he didn't step down.

Words versus action - what is the grievance? If you are hardline on specific policies then I can respect that. Not sure you can ever vote for any politician ever if "he lied about X" or "he groped someone" is the answer.
This is my personal top 5 list, any of which alone is enough for me to not vote for someone and I would've hoped would be disqualifying for most Americans:
1. Pardoned Blackwater mercenaries convicted of murdering civilians. Whether he did it because Erik Prince raised a bunch of money for him or because it was Biden and Obama who put them in jail or because he believed conservative conspiracies on the case I don't really care. As established in court, they unprovoked killed over a dozen civilians and they were convicted twice based on the clear facts of the case. This is not how Presidential pardon power should be utilized.
2. Added $8 trillion to the debt. Part of that is COVID, but a lot of it isn't. If you campaign on eliminating the deficit and then spend more than even the worst liberals that's bad. He is the least fiscally responsible president of my lifetime, and while he'll be six feet under before there are any major ramifications my generation is fucked and likely to eat ever-increasing taxes over the next 20-30 years to pay for his giveaway to big business.
20210114-borrowing-increased-under-trump-despite-promise-to-repay-national-debt-small.png


3. 2020 Election tomfoolery. It's one thing to lie about fraud and how the election was "stolen" and lose every court case. He has the right to explore all legal options and lose. The issues come from 1) you can't be calling states like Georgia and pressuring elected officials to "find votes" for you 2) you can't be flying in lawmakers from Michigan and ask them not to certify / hand you an election win in their legislature "just because" 3) you can't be pressuring Mike Pence to do unconstitutional stuff while lying to your constituents about his role and responsibility. Forget January 6th for a second... it was the lead up to January 6th where he demonstrated there weren't limits to what he was willing to do or say to try to remain in power. The only thing that stopped him were other Republicans going "nah that's illegal, you shouldn't be asking me to do that."
4. Much of his inner circle went to prison for campaign crimes or other illegalities. In short, something like 8 of his associates including one of his campaign managers went to jail. His associates did tons of illegal stuff on his behalf. He pardoned all or most of them that stayed loyal, but ones that rolled over (like Cohen) he did not. That is incredibly corrupt.
5. Hatch Act Violations and Other Corruption. There were something like a dozen Trump officials who committed Hatch act violations, dozens of individual instances of persons using their positions for personal or political profit, de facto money laundering through his properties, etc. This is already a long post so I won't get into all of the nitty gritty but it is well documented how his administration had a very casual relationship with the law and ethics.

These are just some of the reasons I think he's unfit to be President. Any one of these would be enough for me not to vote for someone. The part that's shocking to me is that Republicans could've replaced him with DeSantis, etc. and did no such thing. So now your choices are Trump, Biden, or don't vote. For completely different reasons, I also believe that Biden has quite a bit of "disqualifying" conduct. I do not -- in this case -- actually think there is a "lesser" of two evils because they are both so bad in different ways that the country is kind of uniquely fucked whoever wins. I wish our choices were people like McCain, Obama, Romney, Haley, Youngkin, DeSantis, Beshear, etc. But they aren't, so I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch the circus.
 

NorthDakota

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These are just some of the reasons I think he's unfit to be President. Any one of these would be enough for me not to vote for someone. The part that's shocking to me is that Republicans could've replaced him with DeSantis, etc. and did no such thing. So now your choices are Trump, Biden, or don't vote. For completely different reasons, I also believe that Biden has quite a bit of "disqualifying" conduct. I do not -- in this case -- actually think there is a "lesser" of two evils because they are both so bad in different ways that the country is kind of uniquely fucked whoever wins. I wish our choices were people like McCain, Obama, Romney, Haley, Youngkin, DeSantis, Beshear, etc. But they aren't, so I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch the circus.
I'm super curious what voter turnout is like this go-around.
 

RDU Irish

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This is my personal top 5 list, any of which alone is enough for me to not vote for someone and I would've hoped would be disqualifying for most Americans:
1. Pardoned Blackwater mercenaries convicted of murdering civilians. Whether he did it because Erik Prince raised a bunch of money for him or because it was Biden and Obama who put them in jail or because he believed conservative conspiracies on the case I don't really care. As established in court, they unprovoked killed over a dozen civilians and they were convicted twice based on the clear facts of the case. This is not how Presidential pardon power should be utilized.
2. Added $8 trillion to the debt. Part of that is COVID, but a lot of it isn't. If you campaign on eliminating the deficit and then spend more than even the worst liberals that's bad. He is the least fiscally responsible president of my lifetime, and while he'll be six feet under before there are any major ramifications my generation is fucked and likely to eat ever-increasing taxes over the next 20-30 years to pay for his giveaway to big business.
20210114-borrowing-increased-under-trump-despite-promise-to-repay-national-debt-small.png


3. 2020 Election tomfoolery. It's one thing to lie about fraud and how the election was "stolen" and lose every court case. He has the right to explore all legal options and lose. The issues come from 1) you can't be calling states like Georgia and pressuring elected officials to "find votes" for you 2) you can't be flying in lawmakers from Michigan and ask them not to certify / hand you an election win in their legislature "just because" 3) you can't be pressuring Mike Pence to do unconstitutional stuff while lying to your constituents about his role and responsibility. Forget January 6th for a second... it was the lead up to January 6th where he demonstrated there weren't limits to what he was willing to do or say to try to remain in power. The only thing that stopped him were other Republicans going "nah that's illegal, you shouldn't be asking me to do that."
4. Much of his inner circle went to prison for campaign crimes or other illegalities. In short, something like 8 of his associates including one of his campaign managers went to jail. His associates did tons of illegal stuff on his behalf. He pardoned all or most of them that stayed loyal, but ones that rolled over (like Cohen) he did not. That is incredibly corrupt.
5. Hatch Act Violations and Other Corruption. There were something like a dozen Trump officials who committed Hatch act violations, dozens of individual instances of persons using their positions for personal or political profit, de facto money laundering through his properties, etc. This is already a long post so I won't get into all of the nitty gritty but it is well documented how his administration had a very casual relationship with the law and ethics.

These are just some of the reasons I think he's unfit to be President. Any one of these would be enough for me not to vote for someone. The part that's shocking to me is that Republicans could've replaced him with DeSantis, etc. and did no such thing. So now your choices are Trump, Biden, or don't vote. For completely different reasons, I also believe that Biden has quite a bit of "disqualifying" conduct. I do not -- in this case -- actually think there is a "lesser" of two evils because they are both so bad in different ways that the country is kind of uniquely fucked whoever wins. I wish our choices were people like McCain, Obama, Romney, Haley, Youngkin, DeSantis, Beshear, etc. But they aren't, so I guess I'll just have to sit back and watch the circus.

Not surprised you would have a detailed and substantive response. Thank you.

1) Fringe issue, don't really care.

2) I agree that spending was a big mark against Trump, you might note your own chart shows Obama doubled the debt and Trumps trajectory was the same pre-covid. #1 concern upon his election and not surprised the egotistical real estate guy would spend like a drunken sailor.

3/4) You seem to have a lot of respect for the establishment and our institutions so I can appreciate this stance in context of believing our election process is sound.

5) You can't be serious as this being a top 5 reason. Even if I agree to your premise at least he offers a commercial good in return and not a crack head son board seat or billions of foreign dollars to support a bullshit charity. Grift is synonymous with politics and you may as well never vote again if this is "disqualifying". All of that beside the fact I think these claims are bunk.

So of your five top issues - only one is a real policy issue that impacts every day Joes, and I agree with you on it. The rest are very wonkish concerns with no residual impact on our country IMO but I appreciate the candor and can appreciate where you are coming from.
 

drayer54

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Not surprised you would have a detailed and substantive response. Thank you.

1) Fringe issue, don't really care.

2) I agree that spending was a big mark against Trump, you might note your own chart shows Obama doubled the debt and Trumps trajectory was the same pre-covid. #1 concern upon his election and not surprised the egotistical real estate guy would spend like a drunken sailor.

3/4) You seem to have a lot of respect for the establishment and our institutions so I can appreciate this stance in context of believing our election process is sound.

5) You can't be serious as this being a top 5 reason. Even if I agree to your premise at least he offers a commercial good in return and not a crack head son board seat or billions of foreign dollars to support a bullshit charity. Grift is synonymous with politics and you may as well never vote again if this is "disqualifying". All of that beside the fact I think these claims are bunk.

So of your five top issues - only one is a real policy issue that impacts every day Joes, and I agree with you on it. The rest are very wonkish concerns with no residual impact on our country IMO but I appreciate the candor and can appreciate where you are coming from.
lol don’t diminish that might Hatch act voter base. They prob had their gender degrees funded by Joe.
 

IrishLax

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lol don’t diminish that might Hatch act voter base. They prob had their gender degrees funded by Joe.
Y'all can laugh about it, but like I said I kept that part short rather than write a novel about corruption and ethics violations:
-People who keep track of this kind of stuff noted ~3,700 COI issues.
-Kellyanne Conway getting removed from her position over ethics violation
-Funneled $13M of special interest money through Trump properties and an unknown amount of foreign money
-Took $$ from TikTok investor to reverse his position there ... IMO, TikTok is one of the biggest national security risks out there
-Scamming seniors out of donation money with incredibly sketchy tactics... ended up having to return $100M+ after exposes
-Cabinet members caught with ethics and criminal violations forcing resignations
-The Bannon border donation fraud
-Etc. Etc. Etc.

Government corruption is nothing new or unique to Trump, but the way he enabled/participated in it stands in stark contrast to basically every other GOP primary candidate. That's why I'm saying it's a major issue for me relative to some of the other choices.
 

IrishLax

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The fact that our system is designed such that we have candidates written in stone *before* the conventions is just silly. Basically this guy is saying they have no option to remove/replace Biden it’s already too late lmao

What the heck would happen if a candidate died or something else happened before an election? Has that never happened in American history?
 

NorthDakota

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The fact that our system is designed such that we have candidates written in stone *before* the conventions is just silly. Basically this guy is saying they have no option to remove/replace Biden it’s already too late lmao

What the heck would happen if a candidate died or something else happened before an election? Has that never happened in American history?

I was listening to a podcast that touched on this like a month or two ago but all I really remember is the Dems got really butthurt about how a convention went like 40 years ago....and that I had severe diarrhea while the pod was playing
 

RDU Irish

Catholics vs. Cousins
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Y'all can laugh about it, but like I said I kept that part short rather than write a novel about corruption and ethics violations:
-People who keep track of this kind of stuff noted ~3,700 COI issues.
-Kellyanne Conway getting removed from her position over ethics violation
-Funneled $13M of special interest money through Trump properties and an unknown amount of foreign money
-Took $$ from TikTok investor to reverse his position there ... IMO, TikTok is one of the biggest national security risks out there
-Scamming seniors out of donation money with incredibly sketchy tactics... ended up having to return $100M+ after exposes
-Cabinet members caught with ethics and criminal violations forcing resignations
-The Bannon border donation fraud
-Etc. Etc. Etc.

Government corruption is nothing new or unique to Trump, but the way he enabled/participated in it stands in stark contrast to basically every other GOP primary candidate. That's why I'm saying it's a major issue for me relative to some of the other choices.

Outside of closing his hotels and resorts I'm not sure how you keep these special interests and foreigners out of his properties. Hell
he owned what is now the Waldorf Astoria - where do you think all of the important people are staying when they come to DC? Rich and influential people staying in posh resorts? NO FUCKING WAY! $5M for a five minute speech - bravo, that is in no way a bribe! Just doesn't ring that important to most people who see politicians enriching themselves to generational wealth with no pushback but Trump is somehow Satan.

Beyond that, bunch of rookie mistakes. Menendez isn't in jail, they protect their own in DC and I can't comprehend how that is even debatable. Trump was an outsider which is why they threw every book they could at him and his admin. I will trade all of that fraud for 51 intelligence officials lying about Hunter's laptop and Epstein's client list getting the exposure it deserves. Both are protected as CIA assets, IMO. Bring them all down but start with the establishment and the pedophiles, but I repeat myself.

Tabloid eThICs VioLAtIOns by orange man bad- but crackhead Hunter advising our decrepit POTUS and sitting in meetings right with no clearance can't muster a whimper out of the RINO and blue dog classes. Same people crying about Trump as a threat to our national security requiring 25th amendment invocation STAT are the same ones giving pudding brain a pass today saying it matters who he is surrounded by - except the grifting crack head of course.

Much of your comments give credit and respect to the apparatus of government - I'm pretty much starting with the opposite viewpoint which is why I find ethics to be nothing more than misdirection. Issues are much more lasting and important. If you REALLY care about ethics, what would reverberate more - the entire Epstein client list prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law or Trump's band of misfits taken out back and muzzled forever?
 

drayer54

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Fuck all of these journalists patting themselves on the back with how square they're covering this now... they've been willfully covering it up for the past three years.
Trump should challenge Annie, Ashley, and Anthony, the people running this country to a debate.

Been thinking of this one for some time.
 

IrishLax

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Fuck all of these journalists patting themselves on the back with how square they're covering this now... they've been willfully covering it up for the past three years.
Pretty much. Maybe negligent, maybe willful, but it's a joke. I assumed Biden would be similar to how he was in 2019/2020 debates... instead he has clearly declined (and significantly so) when you watch clips from last election cycle versus now. He has had virtually no unscripted appearances the past two years besides that debate, so that's concealing a lot from the public by itself.

The fact that there are all of these stories to leak now that are like "yeah a year ago he couldn't remember the names of longtime friends" and "this dude can't function after 4 PM" means that the stories were always there and all Left aligned media refused to look for them (or worse buried them). Blame falls on:
-Biden's staff, who wants to prop him up to stay in power
-Biden's family, who wants to prop him up to keep their influence/privilege
-The DNC, which scuttled the primary and kept him off the stage
-Dem politicians who could've/should've/did know that Biden was an empty suit and didn't say anything
-The media who didn't do their job
-Biden himself, who is clearly a delusional and selfish asshole
 

ab2cmiller

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When Biden refuses to take a cognitive test that would provide him the ONLY hope of winning the election….. that tells you everything you need to know.

It’s certainly his right to refuse. But by him doing so, simply confirms that not only should he drop out of the election, he needs to be removed from office.

Somebody is running the country, but it is not Biden.
 

drayer54

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When Biden refuses to take a cognitive test that would provide him the ONLY hope of winning the election….. that tells you everything you need to know.

It’s certainly his right to refuse. But by him doing so, simply confirms that not only should he drop out of the election, he needs to be removed from office.

Somebody is running the country, but it is not Biden.
Its Annie, Ashley, and Anthony. Supposedly crack head Hunter and Jill are also in the game. None elected by the people. A really bizarre approach to protecting democracy.

At least one is looking out for her student debt.



Democracy is on ballot, folks!
 
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