Politics

[Polish Leppy 22]

You completely ignored my previous post. President Obama has appeared numerous times with Al Sharpton, noted anti-Semite. Where's your outrage there?

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It's non-existent. Because the left is all righteous, free of racism, prejudice, and hate.

 

[pkt77242]

Wizards beat me to it.

Iowa is an important primary state, but a talk show host no one knows isn't going to move the needle no matter what he/she says.

If it were Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, or Hannity it'd be a different conversation. That's not the case.

LOL. So only if it is a big name person the candidates should feel a need to distance themselves from him? WTF?

Again the people in Iowa care what he says and Iowa has a prominent role in selecting the nominee. It matters.

 

[Cackalacky]

You completely ignored my previous post. President Obama has appeared numerous times with Al Sharpton, noted anti-Semite. Where's your outrage there?

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FIrst of all I didn't ignore it. It wasn't germane to other discussions. Secondly Anti- Semitism is not a Democrat problem. There aren't copious amounts of anti-Semetics in the Progressive caucus nor does the Democratic party of TODAY have an institutional history with racism. Those democrats are now firmly RED STATE REPUBLICANS DUE TO THE SOUTHERN STRATEGY. So your point is simply obfuscation trying to create interconnection to this topic when there is not one.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Speaking of slavery, I would argue that if you're a citizen of any country and the government is taking 90% of your earnings, that citizen is a slave.

Or 80%. or 70%. or 60%. Or arguably lower.

 

[Cackalacky]

Wizards beat me to it.

Iowa is an important primary state, but a talk show host no one knows isn't going to move the needle no matter what he/she says.

If it were Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, or Hannity it'd be a different conversation. That's not the case.

He doesn't have to move the needle in the country but he quite clearly can and has held sway over the primary in Iowa which the results have historical trends.

 

[pkt77242]

You completely ignored my previous post. President Obama has appeared numerous times with Al Sharpton, noted anti-Semite. Where's your outrage there?

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Sharpton is a tool but at least he has come out and said that he made mistakes back then.

The Jewish Week | Connecting the World to Jewish News, Culture, and Opinion

Rev. Al Sharpton did not understand the extent of the violence during the 1991 Crown Heights riots when he initially entered the neighborhood, and should have used different language in his protests, the activist wrote in an op-ed in the New York Daily News published Sunday.

"I did not know the full volatility of the situation," Reverend Sharpton wrote.

In a detailed account of his actions in the aftermath of the accidental death of Gavin Cato and the murder of Yankel Rosenbaum, prompted by the 20th anniversary, Reverend Sharpton concedes to longstanding criticism that his presence in the area and his angry eulogy for Gavin fanned the conflict.

“We had our marches and they were all peaceful," he wrote. "But with the wisdom of hindsight let's be clear. Our language and tone sometimes exacerbated tensions and played to the extremists rather than raising the issue of the value of this young man whom we were so concerned about."

The reverend also reflects on his use of the term "diamond merchants" at the funeral, which he said referred to "the likes of the Oppenheimer family" in South Africa.

"Extremists seized upon that to say that I was calling all Jews diamond merchants and I spent years defending the statement rather than recognizing that in hours of tension, one must be clearer than at any other time."

One reference in the op-ed is at odds with the contention of the chasidic community, that the violence was entirely directed at Jews: “When I arrived in the neighborhood late in the evening the day after, I could see brick-throwing on all sides.”

The mea culpa presents something of a conundrum for local Jewish community leaders who have denounced him as a polarizing figure while embracing ties with other African American leaders. The op-ed comes closer than ever to the apology they have demanded, but in the eyes of some falls short.

“There is still a lot of pain that hasn’t healed in and around Crown Heights” because of what happened 20 years ago, said Michael Miller, executive vice president of the Jewish Community Relations Council, who was at the Cato funeral. “Reverend Sharpton took a first step but there is a long road to achieve true healing.”

Abraham Foxman, who said he considers Reverend Sharptron a friend and has joined with him on some causes, said “Al Sharpton comes close to doing the right thing. But it’s a little late, and it is a shame that he had to wait to be embarrassed about his participation in the events surrounding Crown Heights.

“Remember, he had acted as a provocateur. And he still hasn’t come far enough to say ‘I made a mistake, I acted in a bigoted way and I’m sorry.’ He falls short. There’s no explanation for his bigotry and for his provocation to incitement. If you admit a mistake, admit a mistake -- and don’t rationalize it.”

Rosenbaum's brother, Norman, said he was not impressed with the reflection. "I don't hear the words 'I apologize', " Rosenbaum said on Sunday, suggesting that Reverend Sharpton might have been moved to write the piece only because he now hosts a talk show on MSNBC and wants to shed the baggage. "As far as I'm concerned it's just a cynical attempt to appease those who haven't forgotten the truth."

It was not the first time Reverend Sharpton reexamined the Cato eulogy. Ten years ago, in attempting to build a coalition with Jewish leaders against slavery in Sudan, he told The Jewish Week when asked about the diamond merchants remark "Maybe because of the sensitivity at that time, that was not the right time to say it." He also called on leaders of major Jewish organizations then to sit down with him for an extensive dialogue to clear up differences, but none took him up on it, saying he had yet to fully take responsibility for his actions.

Reverend Sharpton's tone in the Daily News article contrasts with that of a letter to Rabbi Marc Schneier of the Hampton Synagogue he wrote on Thursday. In canceling his participation in a forum on black-Jewish relations 20 years after Crown Heights, he said "I have made mistakes in my career, but the allegations around Crown Heights, which is proven to be patently untrue, was not one of them."

But in both the letter and op-ed, Sharpton insists he is not the same man he was then. "Twenty years later, I have grown. I would still have stood up for Gavin Cato, but I would have also included in my utterances that there was no justification or excuse for violence or the death of Yankel Rosenbaum."

The reverend then recalled a meeting during his youth with Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel at the Jewish Theological Seminary, in which the Jewish civil rights leader and supporter of Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. told him "only big men can achieve big things." Reverend Sharpton said he wishes he had shared that encounter at Gavin Cato's funeral.

"Crown Heights showed me how some of us, in our smallness, can divide," he wrote.

In response to The Jewish Week's requests for an interview, a spokeswoman for Reverend Sharpton last week said he was unavailable because of the demands of hosting his MSNBC show, PoliticsNation.

Read more at The Jewish Week | Connecting the World to Jewish News, Culture, and Opinion

 

[Cackalacky]

Speaking of slavery, I would argue that if you're a citizen of any country and the government is taking 90% of your earnings, that citizen is a slave.

Or 80%. or 70%. or 60%. Or arguably lower.

I could argue that even having to work in a civilization that requires one to earn money in order to survive could be slavery but I don't think thats where you want to go.

 

[pkt77242]

Speaking of slavery, I would argue that if you're a citizen of any country and the government is taking 90% of your earnings, that citizen is a slave.

Or 80%. or 70%. or 60%. Or arguably lower.

Sigh, not this again. You do understand how tax rates work, right?

 

[Cackalacky]

Spin spin, spin the black circle

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

LOL. So only if it is a big name person the candidates should feel a need to distance themselves from him? WTF?

Again the people in Iowa care what he says and Iowa has a prominent role in selecting the nominee. It matters.

Candidates do what they have to do to get air time. I'm 100% positive no presidential candidate supports slavery, but I don't blame candidates on either side to maximize air time. And yes I think this host is a D bag and I'd love to smack him down.

 

[wizards8507]

FIrst of all I didn't ignore it. It wasn't germane to other discussions. Secondly Anti- Semitism is not a Democrat problem. There aren't copious amounts of anti-Semetics in the Progressive caucus nor does the Democratic party of TODAY have an institutional history with racism. Those democrats are now firmly RED STATE REPUBLICANS DUE TO THE SOUTHERN STRATEGY. So your point is simply obfuscation trying to create interconnection to this topic when there is not one.

What the hell does race have to do with it? Lawbreakers are lawbreakers, period. Doesn't matter if they're black, white, purple, or green. Obviously this guy is a moron but his (moronic) opinion has nothing to do with skin color.

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[Polish Leppy 22]

I could argue that even having to work in a civilization that requires one to earn money in order to survive could be slavery but I don't think thats where you want to go.

I was unaware that citizens in the US are denied health care unless they have money.

 

[wizards8507]

I could argue that even having to work in a civilization that requires one to earn money in order to survive could be slavery but I don't think thats where you want to go.

Let's go down this rabbit hole. How does one obtain food or shelter in your communist Utopia?

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[Cackalacky]

Let's go down this rabbit hole. How does one obtain food or shelter in your communist Utopia?

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Based on 100,000 years of history......hunting and gathering, sustinence agriculture, bartering.

All before communisim.

 

[phgreek]

As to the bolded part, I will concede that the Republican candidates may not have known everything they should have known before appearing on this clown's show, but I am still waiting for them to public condemn his racially-charged rhetoric. If they don't agree with what he said, they should be out there distancing themselves from this type of talk and condemning his ideas.

Unfortunately, the media caters to idiots like this. Pull the plug on programs like this and they will cease to exist.

If thats the standard...every person who interviews an R, they must challenge on every idiotic thing the interviewer has said???...I hope that applies to the D side. ANNND you know it doesn't. I think you know there is racially charged rhetoric coming from the D side as well, and politicians from the D side seem not to be hammered with that....at least here.

I don't disagree with the premise that politicians SHOULD distance themselves from this kind of thing...but they rarely do if there is a crowd to reach...

The propensity to ignore your own idiots is not strictly a Republican trait...although you'd think by reading this discussion, it is.

 

[Cackalacky]

I was unaware that citizens in the US are denied health care unless they have money.

Really? Lol.

 

[pkt77242]

I was unaware that citizens in the US are denied health care unless they have money.

First off it depends on what you mean by denied, as only non-profit hospitals have to treat everyone (for profit hospitals only have to treat emergencies such as heart attacks, strokes, etc.), and patient dumping is a real thing. Also you need much more to live such as food, water, some kind of protection from the elements, etc.

 

[wizards8507]

Based on 100,000 years of history......hunting and gathering, sustinence agriculture, bartering.

All before communisim.

Feel free.

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[EddytoNow]

I was unaware that citizens in the US are denied health care unless they have money.

You need to visit some schools. Any teacher will be able to point you to students who go without healthcare except for extreme emergencies. These students come to school sick or injured because mom or dad couldn't afford an office visit to the local doctor, who wants payment in advance or proof of health insurance before seeing these children. When you are struggling to put milk and bread on the table and a roof over your family's head, you are in no position to pay the roughly $75.00-$100.00 charge for an office visit. Nor are these parents in a position to pay for the prescriptions that may be necessary to treat their child's illness or injury. Most couldn't even afford the co-pay or deductible if they did have insurance through an employer. There are millions of Americans who don't bother going to a doctor, because they can't afford it.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You need to visit some schools. Any teacher will be able to point you to students who go without healthcare except for extreme emergencies. These students come to school sick or injured because mom or dad couldn't afford an office visit to the local doctor, who wants payment in advance or proof of health insurance before seeing these children. When you are struggling to put milk and bread on the table and a roof over your family's head, you are in no position to pay the roughly $75.00-$100.00 charge for an office visit. Nor are these parents in a position to pay for the prescriptions that may be necessary to treat their child's illness or injury. Most couldn't even afford the co-pay or deductible if they did have insurance through an employer. There are millions of Americans who don't bother going to a doctor, because they can't afford it.

1) I thought Obamacare was supposed to solve all those problems.

2) Medicaid does exist.

3) The rest of this conversation will likely take us into the causes of poverty, which will be an entirely different conversation altogether.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Feel free.

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He won't do it unless he can forcibly drag the rest of us to his utopia with him.

 

[Cackalacky]

Feel free.

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It's impossible now but was a very effective system for much longer than capitalism. But you asked.

 

[wizards8507]

It's impossible now but was a very effective system for much longer than capitalism. But you asked.

Effective, you say? Like when people shit on the ground and starved in the winter and had no technology whatsoever? Those days? You're seriously arguing for hunter-gatherer over modern capitalism?

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[Cackalacky]

Effective, you say? Like when people shit on the ground and starved in the winter and had no technology whatsoever? Those days? You're seriously arguing for hunter-gatherer over modern capitalism?

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Its pointless carrying on a conversation with you. Polish Leppy mentioned taxing as a form of slavery. I mentioned that having to work in a culture that requires money to pay for goods and services could be considered slavery by his very same logic.

I did say it was effective. It's actually extremely effective and allowed humans to exist up this day.it's actually 100,000 years of valid evidence that it is true. Unlike the mythical free markets and Libertarianism. Some cultures still use those methods today.....I know right. Crazy.

Now you have misrepresented that purposely into me arguing for it over capitalism?

I'm done.

 

[phgreek]

You need to visit some schools. Any teacher will be able to point you to students who go without healthcare except for extreme emergencies. These students come to school sick or injured because mom or dad couldn't afford an office visit to the local doctor, who wants payment in advance or proof of health insurance before seeing these children. When you are struggling to put milk and bread on the table and a roof over your family's head, you are in no position to pay the roughly $75.00-$100.00 charge for an office visit. Nor are these parents in a position to pay for the prescriptions that may be necessary to treat their child's illness or injury. Most couldn't even afford the co-pay or deductible if they did have insurance through an employer. There are millions of Americans who don't bother going to a doctor, because they can't afford it.

Honest question...How is this possible after all this nation has gone through for the ACA. I mean, of all those who I'd insist be using it, it'd be kids. How can this be going on?

Truth be told I hate ACA...but hell we are paying for the POS, I'd hope it'd at least be serviceable for the damned kids.

 

[pkt77242]

Honest question...How is this possible after all this nation has gone through for the ACA. I mean, of all those who I'd insist be using it, it'd be kids. How can this be going on?

Truth be told I hate ACA...but hell we are paying for the POS, I'd hope it'd at least be serviceable for the damned kids.

Because some parents are shitty and didn't sign their families up, because some states turned down expanding medicaid and probably because some people hate the idea of being forced to buy insurance and so didn't for their families.

Would the Conservatives out there be opposed to universal healthcare for minors. Parents would be free to buy supplemental insurance if they wanted.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Would the Conservatives out there be opposed to universal healthcare for minors. Parents would be free to buy supplemental insurance if they wanted.

I've never heard of this idea, but I love it.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Its pointless carrying on a conversation with you. Polish Leppy mentioned taxing as a form of slavery. I mentioned that having to work in a culture that requires money to pay for goods and services could be considered slavery by his very same logic.

I did say it was effective. It's actually extremely effective and allowed humans to exist up this day.it's actually 100,000 years of valid evidence that it is true. Unlike the mythical free markets and Libertarianism. Some cultures still use those methods today.....I know right. Crazy.

Now you have misrepresented that purposely into me arguing for it over capitalism?

I'm done.

Nerding out here and this is completely irrelevant to this thread, but there's actually a lot of evidence that when societies started to shift to agrarian economies as opposed to hunter-gatherer ones, the people got smaller and died younger. Obviously, you can support much bigger populations with agriculture, and the shift to agriculture (along with the development of coercive religious and governmental institutions) allowed people at the center to accumulate more power, but for the average individual living as a hunter gatherer was, on average, a much better life style.

 

[phgreek]

Because some parents are shitty and didn't sign their families up, because some states turned down expanding medicaid and probably because some people hate the idea of being forced to buy insurance and so didn't for their families.

Would the Conservatives out there be opposed to universal healthcare for minors. Parents would be free to buy supplemental insurance if they wanted.

in theory, no. But I wasn't opposed to the concept of universal healthcare...just how it was being achieved. How we achieved this...I would probably want a PLAN up front (not promises to define shit later and manipulations and lies), and understand where the offsets were coming from.

...We do WIC, to which I presume this would be a natural extension...a more holistic wellness kind of thing.

 

[BGIF]

Based on 100,000 years of history......hunting and gathering, sustinence agriculture, bartering.

All before communisim.

Did you forget the millenia of scorched earth war, raping and pillaging, and slavery around the world or didn't that fit in your history of the world?