Politics

[chicago51]

Wow...haven't visited this thread in a while and I come back to see that once again we come back to all R's are basically Ming the Merciless but entwined with Nazi and Stalin's DNA...nice...

Have a nice day, "I'll retire to bedlam"

My intention was to show this idea that Republicans are for "small" government and Democrats are for "big" government is over simpilfied and only half truth.

The reality is both parties believe in big government. As Republicans other than the true liberatarians you don't see in DC are in favor of big government when it comes to being the police state, and other issues like women's health care. Just like Democrats are the party of big government in areas like the environment.

 

[Black Irish]

My intention was to show this idea that Republicans are for "small" government and Democrats are for "big" government is over simpilfied and only half truth.

The reality is both parties believe in big government. As Republicans other than the true liberatarians you don't see in DC are in favor of big government when it comes to being the police state, and other issues like women's health care. Just like Democrats are the party of big government in areas like the environment.

I'll agree the two parties and the two ideological wings that they each more or less represent conveniently jump back and forth on the "more/less government involvement." I can only speak for myself. I say that my endorsement of what you term "big government" has to do with when people run afoul of the law. I've got no problem with a big, robust military or justice system that protects us from foreign and domestic threats. I'm also in favor of a justice and regulatory system that goes after industrial polluters, white collar crooks, and those who exploit workers and disregard their safety. What bothers me about big government is when law-abiding people are harassed, coerced, marginalized, and put through the wringer because of an intrusive state. For instance, the IRS targeting conservative groups for additional scrutiny. Or governments deeming that all government contracts must be awarded to union-affiliated groups. Or the feds going after citizens for legal speech that they deem politically incorrect (e.g. make a film that is critical of Islam). That's what bothers me.

 

[DSully1995]

Yea but that is "big" government and all big government is bad right?

Well, so is crime? I think its a worthwhile trade off

 

[chicago51]

Well, so is crime? I think its a worthwhile trade off

So if it is okay for government to take DNA samples without a warrant because you feel it is a worthwhile trade off then is it okay for government to check up on industry to make sure they aren't releasing harmful pollutants into the air and/or water and that the buildings that people work in are safe?

 

[DSully1995]

So if it is okay for government to take DNA samples without a warrant because you feel it is a worthwhile trade off then is it okay for government to check up on industry to make sure they aren't releasing harmful pollutants into the air and/or water and that the buildings that people work in are safe?

1. they usually **** up in many ways
2. We have been buying products for decades from places that dont do this, but I believe that people can choose to support companies that treat the environment ethically. Likewise, people do not have to work for anyone.

 

[chicago51]

Most of these 501 c4's are a complete joke to call themselves social welfare. I would actually go as far to say IRS didn't target enough of them. People want to talk about being the welfare state, well as tax payers are in effect subsidizing these political groups that disguise themselves as social welfare groups. I'm not defending the IRS because they were lazy in their approach but they did target liberal groups not just conservative groups. My issue was their criteria for who the target and who not to target was made up as they went along. I ask my Republican tax payers out their to how to feel that you are subsidizing Karl Rove's SuperPac? If those donations weren't tax deductable those donors would have to pay a little more taxes and maybe you could be paying a little bit less.

Did the target more conservative groups? Yes but the fact there is twice as many conservative groups as liberal groups. We as tax payers shouldn't be subsidizing any of these groups so they are going to be target more of them.

Proof the IRS Didn't Target Just Conservatives - Garance Franke-Ruta - The Atlantic

Again I'm not excusing what the IRS did it was taking lazy short cuts. The fact is though is after Citizens United we saw an explosion particularly on the conservative side (as Republicans have more rich donors) so I encourage folks to direct at least 20% of their outrage toward the Supreme Court.

Also if we just changed the rule back from exclusively social welfare were is was before 1959 instead of "mostly" (a very vague term) social welfare for 501c4 status we wouldn't have an of these problems.

Today’s IRS Scandal Dates Back to 1959 | Financial Markets

 

[chicago51]

1. they usually **** up in many ways
2. We have been buying products for decades from places that dont do this, but I believe that people can choose to support companies that treat the environment ethically. Likewise, people do not have to work for anyone.

I don't think consumers look much at the how well companies pay and treat their workers and how environmentally friendly they are unfortunately; that is part of the problem. Just like we often don't go out of our way to buy things made at home.

The US has $38 trillion over 200% GDP in debt, so unfortunately people just look at the price.

Not to change the subject but as I've ranted on before we've had the dot com bubble, the housing bubble, the student debt bubble and private debt bubble could be next. Consumer spending is responsible for over 60% of GDP and the private debt really drags on consumer spending. Paying off a loan does nothing to help economic growth.

Private debt along with technological inovation leading better efficency is probably why this has been the slowest recovery.

 

[DSully1995]

I don't think consumers look much at the how well companies pay and treat their workers and how environmentally friendly they are unfortunately; that is part of the problem. Just like we often don't go out of our way to buy things made at home.

The US has $38 trillion over 200% GDP in debt, so unfortunately people just look at the price.

Not to change the subject but as I've ranted on before we've had the dot com bubble, the housing bubble, the student debt bubble and private debt bubble could be next. Consumer spending is responsible for over 60% of GDP and the private debt really drags on consumer spending. Paying off a loan does nothing to help economic growth.

Private debt along with technological inovation leading better efficency is probably why this has been the slowest recovery.

Yea correction: environment, gov is able to interfere with companies that will harm third parties. Real question is how and how much

 

[MJ12666]

Wow...haven't visited this thread in a while and I come back to see that once again we come back to all R's are basically Ming the Merciless but entwined with Nazi and Stalin's DNA...nice...

Have a nice day, "I'll retire to bedlam"

I was only kidding. Just having a little fun with Chicago51. He seems like a nice guy (I am assuming he is a guy) but his understanding of economics and politics is to say the least naive.

By the way, I just read two interesting articles in Business Week (don't be fooled by the name it is about as left leaning "business" publication that I have ever read) neither of which was a critical of Obama.

The first was basically how Eric Schmidt of Google fame helped Obama's re-election efforts by spreading negative propaganda about Romney to college students. The article was very complimentary about the innovative way this was done.

The second article was about how the ACA will actually increase the use of emegency room facilities for "routine" health issues. It seems that individuals who get new health policies under the ACA will not be able to find GD's who will accept them as patients because of the low reimbursement rates, so they will continue to go the the emergency room for treatment with their new "insurance card". Hospitals in CA are already experiencing this according to the article. In a few years I think even Chicago51 will agree that the ACA was a bad idea and should be repealed, but by then it will be too late.

 

[Bluto]

Interesting article from Salon.com. Really calls into question most if not all of the school reform nonsense that's been flying around lately.
New data shows school “reformers” are full of it - Salon.com

 

[Rizzophil]

Interesting article from Salon.com. Really calls into question most if not all of the school reform nonsense that's been flying around lately.
New data shows school “reformers” are full of it - Salon.com

Bluetooth, you have to watch the documentary Waiting for Superman!

Has anyone seen it?

 

[Bluto]

Bluetooth, you have to watch the documentary Waiting for Superman!

Has anyone seen it?

Will do hands free device. Lol. In all seriousness I saw it and hated it. In my best Roger Ebert impression, two thumbs down and the middle finger. I found it to be a one sided propaganda piece for privatizing public schools.

Here's a good analysis of said film by George Bush's former education secretary

The Myth of Charter Schools by Diane Ravitch | The New York Review of Books

"Some fact-checking is in order, and the place to start is with the film’s quiet acknowledgment that only one in five charter schools is able to get the “amazing results” that it celebrates. Nothing more is said about this astonishing statistic."

"According to University of Washington economist Dan Goldhaber, about 60 percent of achievement is explained by nonschool factors, such as family income. "

I'm not saying teachers unions don't have their problems but as the author of the article I posted points out the bottom line seems to be poverty and other non-school factors and he let's "reformers" like Guggenheim have it.

 

[BobD]

Interesting article from Salon.com. Really calls into question most if not all of the school reform nonsense that's been flying around lately.
New data shows school “reformers” are full of it - Salon.com

Is it just me? Doesn't it seem like commonsense that children in a middle class neighborhood school would probably have a better chance of receiving a good education than children in a poverty stricken area?

Maybe they'll discover there are nicer grocery stores in the suburbs than the ghetto next.

 

[Bluto]

Is it just me? Doesn't it seem like commonsense that children in a middle class neighborhood school would probably have a better chance of receiving a good education than children in a poverty stricken area?

That's definitely the case in California where school bonds are directly related to the property taxes of a specific district and fund a good deal of that districts needs.

The article also points out that it's primarily non-school factors that determine educational achievement.

 

[BobD]

That's definitely the case in California where school bonds are directly related to the property taxes of a specific district and fund a good deal of that districts needs.

The article also points out that it's primarily non-school factors that determine educational achievement.

This topic reminds me of this movie.

 

[chicago51]

That's definitely the case in California where school bonds are directly related to the property taxes of a specific district and fund a good deal of that districts needs.

The article also points out that it's primarily non-school factors that determine educational achievement.

It is like this in Illinois as well.

The whole point of Jimmy Carter starting the department of education was to help underfunded local school districts. The zip code were an individual grows up shouldn't determine where he or she falls in life. The whole point of the department education when Carter formed it.

As I mentioned in my post last week liberalism accepts that there is going to be inequality but it strives for equal opportunity. Ultimately the department of education has grown into a monster and overstepped into areas that should be handled by the states but I thought the original intent of the department was noble and worthwhile.

 

[chicago51]

This is pretty much the worse thing about our government. I'd say it is the biggest issue with the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Conflict of Interest:

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Conflict of interest really should be against the law. If you own oil stock or stock in alternative energy one shouldn't be able to vote on energy related matters. If one is involved in banks they shouldn't be on the banking comittee or be able to vote on banking matters. If one is in agriculture they sure as heck shouldn't be on the agriculture committee.

Eveyone yells and scream about all these Presidential scandals, maybe rightfully so maybe not. Yet nobody knows about these Congressional scandals were Congress often benefits financially from their votes. Yet these scandals get no attention. I know this was a Republican Congress in this example but it goes on throughout both parties of Congress and state capitals across the country.

 

[DSully1995]

My economics professor went into a tantrum anytime he brought up the agriculture subsidies, it is terrible.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

AmCon's Alan Jacobs just posted an article about the dangers technology poses to a truly liberal education:

Because of the cultural vacuum in their earlier education and because of the informal education they receive from the communications media, which both shape and reflect the larger society, today’s liberal arts students come to college, it seems to me, bearing a sort of relativism verging on nihilism, a kind of individualism that is really isolation from community. The education they receive in college these days, I believe, is more likely to reinforce this condition than to change it. In this way, too, it fails in its liberating function, in its responsibility to shape free men and women. Earlier generations who came to college with traditional beliefs rooted in the past had them challenged by hard questioning and the requirement to consider alternatives and were thereby unnerved, and thereby liberated, by the need to make reasoned choices. The students of today and tomorrow deserve the same opportunity. They, too, must be freed from the tyranny that comes from the accident of being born at a particular time in a particular place, but that liberation can only come from a return to the belief that we may have something to learn from the past. The challenge to the relativism, nihilism, and privatism of the present can best be presented by a careful and respectful examination of earlier ideas, ideas that have not been rejected by the current generation but are simply unknown to them. When they have been allowed to consider the alternatives, they, too, can enjoy the freedom of making an informed and reasoned choice.

 

[chicago51]

AmCon's Alan Jacobs just posted an article about the dangers technology poses to a truly liberal education:

I think, though, that is a terribly deluded and shallow understanding of what it means to “learn” about something. When we — humans — learn about something, we are not simply committing facts to our memory so we can recall them in the future. That’s a very tiny part of a much larger and much more important process. To “learn” about something is to study the information (when historical events occurred, what happened, etc), find connections between it and other things we’ve learned and experiences we’ve had, and to synthesize it into something greater — knowledge. Knowing, say, the Pythagorean Theorem in isolation isn’t of much use, but connecting it to your need to identify another object’s location suddenly makes it very useful. And more abstractly, knowing Roman and Greek history isn’t very useful all on its own, but being able to learn from it and apply its lessons to current political difficulties might prove very beneficial.

I agree with this paragraph in the article.

 

[Black Irish]

Is it just me? Doesn't it seem like commonsense that children in a middle class neighborhood school would probably have a better chance of receiving a good education than children in a poverty stricken area?

Maybe they'll discover there are nicer grocery stores in the suburbs than the ghetto next.

I thought this was one of the problems that busing was supposed to help solve. Poor kids wouldn't all get stuck going to crappy neighborhood schools.

 

[chicago51]

Congressman Cummings talking about the IRS scandal. Republican chairman Issa to this point has not released the full IRS transcripts to the public.

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[Irish Houstonian]

Apropo, sales of George Orwell's 1984 are up 7,000%

Amazon.com Movers & Shakers: The biggest gainers in Books sales rank over the past 24 hours

 

[Patulski]

AmCon's Alan Jacobs just posted an article about the dangers technology poses to a truly liberal education:

As a guy with a Notre Dame BA from the Program of Liberal Studies, I am particularly interested in this kind of stuff. So, let's break it down:

Because of the cultural vacuum in their earlier education and because of the informal education they receive from the communications media, which both shape and reflect the larger society, today’s liberal arts students come to college, it seems to me, bearing a sort of relativism verging on nihilism, a kind of individualism that is really isolation from community.

And business or engineering students don't?

The education they receive in college these days, I believe, is more likely to reinforce this condition than to change it. In this way, too, it fails in its liberating function, in its responsibility to shape free men and women. Earlier generations who came to college with traditional beliefs rooted in the past had them challenged by hard questioning and the requirement to consider alternatives and were thereby unnerved, and thereby liberated, by the need to make reasoned choices. The students of today and tomorrow deserve the same opportunity. They, too, must be freed from the tyranny that comes from the accident of being born at a particular time in a particular place, but that liberation can only come from a return to the belief that we may have something to learn from the past.

Today's students don't read Nietzsche, Aristotle, Hobbes, Burke, Russel et. al? They do in PLS at ND. I get a compendium of their senior dissertations every year.

The challenge to the relativism, nihilism, and privatism of the present can best be presented by a careful and respectful examination of earlier ideas, ideas that have not been rejected by the current generation but are simply unknown to them. When they have been allowed to consider the alternatives, they, too, can enjoy the freedom of making an informed and reasoned choice.

The funny thing about this opinion is the idea that relativism, nihilism and privatism are new concepts. They have been dissected and discussed by philosophers for centuries.

 

[phgreek]

Cue the Shocked face...

This mode of operation surrounding constant moral turpitude...we good to just call it Clintonian now...and everyone gets it...yes?

"CBS News' John Miller reports that according to an internal State Department Inspector General's memo, several recent investigations were influenced, manipulated, or simply called off. The memo obtained by CBS News cited eight specific examples. Among them: allegations that a State Department security official in Beirut "engaged in sexual assaults" on foreign nationals hired as embassy guards and the charge and that members of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's security detail "engaged prostitutes while on official trips in foreign countries" -- a problem the report says was "endemic." "


State Department memo reveals possible cover-ups, halted investigations - CBS News

 

[ACamp1900]

Your tax dollars at work...

 

[Black Irish]

Your tax dollars at work...

And you don't even get any hookers out of it.

 

[Black Irish]

I just finished reading "The Soprano State" about New Jersey's culture of corruption. Interestingly, I finished it up while I was staying in Atlantic City. I try not to completely give myself over to despair and cynicism, but after reading that book it's hard to imagine the confluence of events that would have to occur to turn that ship around.

 

[chicago51]

I just finished reading "The Soprano State" about New Jersey's culture of corruption. Interestingly, I finished it up while I was staying in Atlantic City. I try not to completely give myself over to despair and cynicism, but after reading that book it's hard to imagine the confluence of events that would have to occur to turn that ship around.

 

[Whiskeyjack]