Politics

[chicago51]

I'm gonna miss the $200 fine touching high voltage signature.

Yes the logic of the quote seems to be a bit of backward thinking.

 

[chicago51]

If the Supreme Court in 2000 didn't award George W Bush the presidency we might not be in the mess we are in today.

Al Gore would have been a good president.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

If the Supreme Court in 2000 didn't award George W Bush the presidency we might not be in the mess we are in today.

Al Gore would have been a good president.

lol amazing...things have gotten worse across the board for everyone, especially the middle class, since 2008 but you're still pissed about Bush and 2000, and comrade GoIrisis still bothered by Romney and his money.

 

[Ndaccountant]

For the record the Obama administration has begun to take steps to make the drone policies more transparent.

Daily Show host Jon Stewart chided President Barack Obama on Thursday for his lack of transparency, despite endless promises of the contrary. Stewart said, “State of the Union promises are supposed to be slightly more durable than New Year’s Resolutions.”

WATCH: Jon Stewart Unloads on Obama For Lack of Transparency

 

[BobD]

If the Supreme Court in 2000 didn't award George W Bush the presidency we might not be in the mess we are in today.

Al Gore would have been a good president.

I don't know why, but I've never had confidence in Al. We would've been better off with almost anyone in office other than the Jr. Bush though.

 

[connor_in]

I love Carlin's humor...my favorite bit is all about "stuff"... a house is simply a place for your stuff...etc...that and the differences btw football and baseball...and word meanings (driving on a parkway and parking in a driveway...why do we call them buildings when they are already done building them, they should be called builts or crumblings)

However, I do have a bit of a problem with the quote used here. Is the phrase "give the rich more money" really supposed to mean "take less of the rich make" or is it supposed to mean "subsidize the rich with govt money"?

 

[irishpat183]

Daily Show host Jon Stewart chided President Barack Obama on Thursday for his lack of transparency, despite endless promises of the contrary. Stewart said, “State of the Union promises are supposed to be slightly more durable than New Year’s Resolutions.”

WATCH: Jon Stewart Unloads on Obama For Lack of Transparency

Anyone that claims this admin has been "transparent" is just crazy.

Benghazi? Fast and Furious?

REALLY?

 

[GoIrish41]

lol amazing...things have gotten worse across the board for everyone, especially the middle class, since 2008 but you're still pissed about Bush and 2000, and comrade GoIrisis still bothered by Romney and his money.

You know when things really got worse for everyone? When the economy went into the tank and people were losing their homes, their retirement savings, and their jobs. The recession happened under a republican president who got the country into two unfunded wars and put reckless tax rates into place -- an action that republicans to this day still has the gull to suggest will create jobs and repair the economy despite every shred of evidence.

Since the Dems took office, the economy has improved and you are just lying to yourself if you can't admit this. The DOW just reached a record high this week. Your hatred for Obama is blinding you to reality.

Bush Jr. and Romney are cartoons of your cause that serve as examples of what has gone wrong with the republican party. As a Democrat, I hope your idiotic party never learns their lesson and keeps putting goofs like these two forward as candidates so the GOP never holds power in this country again.

 

[irishpat183]

You know when things really got worse for everyone? When the economy went into the tank and people were losing their homes, their retirement savings, and their jobs. The recession happened under a republican president who got the country into two unfunded wars and put reckless tax rates into place -- an action that republicans to this day still has the gull to suggest will create jobs and repair the economy despite every shred of evidence.

Since the Dems took office, the economy has improved and you are just lying to yourself if you can't admit this. The DOW just reached a record high this week. Your hatred for Obama is blinding you to reality.

Bush Jr. and Romney are cartoons of your cause that serve as examples of what has gone wrong with the republican party. As a Democrat, I hope your idiotic party never learns their lesson and keeps putting goofs like these two forward as candidates so the GOP never holds power in this country again.

Cause Bill Clinton had NOTHING to do with any of that.....

 

[GoIrish41]

Cause Bill Clinton had NOTHING to do with any of that.....

come on Pat. Just this once, don't try to change the subject. Leppy is talking about how Obama is making things worse for everyone. I offered an argument that says he is not. If you want to get in on this conversation, you should either argue that Leppy is right and evidence points to Obama causing this country and all of its citizens to be in a worse situation than they were when he took office, or, that Obama is, in fact, helping the country and its citizens to recover from mistakes of the previous administration. Introducing yet another administration into the argument is a distraction from the core argument Leppy is making and I am refuting. Heck, two pages hereI don't want to be talking about the Polk administration and how it really set all of this in motion.

 

[irishpat183]

come on Pat. Just this once, don't try to change the subject. Leppy is talking about how Obama is making things worse for everyone. I offered an argument that says he is not. If you want to get in on this conversation, you should either argue that Leppy is right and evidence points to Obama causing this country and all of its citizens to be in a worse situation than they were when he took office, or, that Obama is, in fact, helping the country and its citizens to recover from mistakes of the previous administration. Introducing yet another administration into the argument is a distraction from the core argument Leppy is making and I am refuting. Heck, two pages hereI don't want to be talking about the Polk administration and how it really set all of this in motion.

Hey! By bringing up Bush, the left is constantly changing the subject and has been for the last 4 years.

 

[GoIrish41]

Hey! By bringing up Bush, the left is constantly changing the subject and has been for the last 4 years.

Leppy's argument is that we are worse off now than we were when Obama took office. In order to argue against that, you have to have a starting point from which to argue and that point is the end of the Bush administration. Are we better or worse since that point? That is the question at hand.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You know when things really got worse for everyone? When the economy went into the tank and people were losing their homes, their retirement savings, and their jobs. The recession happened under a republican president who got the country into two unfunded wars and put reckless tax rates into place -- an action that republicans to this day still has the gull to suggest will create jobs and repair the economy despite every shred of evidence.

Since the Dems took office, the economy has improved and you are just lying to yourself if you can't admit this. The DOW just reached a record high this week. Your hatred for Obama is blinding you to reality.

Bush Jr. and Romney are cartoons of your cause that serve as examples of what has gone wrong with the republican party. As a Democrat, I hope your idiotic party never learns their lesson and keeps putting goofs like these two forward as candidates so the GOP never holds power in this country again.

Here we go, it's all Bush's fault. I think this is the 8th time we've discusssed here why 2008 happened. I don't hate obama. I despise his policies and his attitudes toward this country.

1) 2008 was not a direct result of George Bush. That was a long time coming because government got involved in mortgage loans for people who had no business owning a home and couldn't afford it.

2) Don't preach to us about unfunded wars when we're looking obamacare right in the face. Democrats voted for those wars, too. Bush was no dictator.

3) The economy has improved because the DOW is at a record high? Your blind love affair with the most progressive, anti business, social welfare president is astounding. When this guy took office in 2009, unemployment was at 7.6%. Where are we now? 8%.

4) Median household incomes have declined 4 or 5 percent in since then.

5) Record numbers of people are on food stamps.

6) Half of college grads (some of them it's their own fault for fake majors) don't have full time jobs after graduation.

7) National debt has increased by $6 trillion in 4 years.

8) Democrat controlled Senate hasn't passed a damn budget in 4 years.

9) If Bush Jr. was such a good, how the hell did Kerry lose to him?

10) Romney wasn't my first choice, but hot dog vendors have more business experience than obama and would be better in office.

But you're right, I'm so blind to reality. Everything's great. The land of unicorns is upon us. We've come so far. We're moving forward!

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Discussions like these ^^^ are why I post so many articles on here about facts comparing red states and blue states. Guys like Goirish41 and I have completely different views of this country and what brings success, so I argue strongly for federalism.

Our country was founded to get away from central planning and an overreaching federal government. That's why the states have the rights they do.

If you like a left leaning, progressive blue state and all that comes with it, go live there.

If you prefer the opposite, go live in a red state.

 

[connor_in]

come on Pat. Just this once, don't try to change the subject. Leppy is talking about how Obama is making things worse for everyone. I offered an argument that says he is not. If you want to get in on this conversation, you should either argue that Leppy is right and evidence points to Obama causing this country and all of its citizens to be in a worse situation than they were when he took office, or, that Obama is, in fact, helping the country and its citizens to recover from mistakes of the previous administration. Introducing yet another administration into the argument is a distraction from the core argument Leppy is making and I am refuting. Heck, two pages hereI don't want to be talking about the Polk administration and how it really set all of this in motion.

Sadly, while I don't necessarily want to invest the Polk administration as the main culprit of problems existing today, the culprits really are a combination of decisions and actions/inactions of various previous administrations as well as the Congresses they dealt with.

The fault does not lie with W as Obama like to constantly accuse (and you did in your response to Leppy)...and Obama isn't completely responsible either (tho as is obvious from my other posts, I do not agree with his policies and or lack of policies in a number of areas and disagree they are making/will make things better...but that is my opinion and not the thrust of this response). The fault belongs to far more than that. W instituted the policies he did for numerous reasons. One of the main reasons for the tax rates he put through was to kick start an economy jolted to a halt by the 9/11 attacks. Now some will blame W for the 9/11 attacks and support their arguments with various details, others will blame the attacks on wheels set in motion during the Clinton admin. By that same token others will go back to Reagan/Bush 41 years for what developed from there...however, Reagan defenders will point to the actions/inactions of the Carter administration, and so and so and so forth until not only do you get to Polk's admin, but they will blame things on Tyler and his lack of a VP who will blame Harrison because he was only supposed to be a VP, etc.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Discussions like these ^^^ are why I post so many articles on here about facts comparing red states and blue states. Guys like Goirish41 and I have completely different views of this country and what brings success, so I argue strongly for federalism.

Our country was founded to get away from central planning and an overreaching federal government. That's why the states have the rights they do.

If you like a left leaning, progressive blue state and all that comes with it, go live there.

If you prefer the opposite, go live in a red state.

Someone rep this man.

 

[RDU Irish]

Pretty upset also.

Harry Reid has been a believer in that there is no point of passing something if it has a 0 percent chance of passing the House. I understand where he is coming from. Reid prefers to let the President negioate and then he'll just pass what the president agrees to.

I think though it does the Democrat party a diservice. I think it would do the Democrats some good if the American people actually could see their budget plans. It would give the people something else to process beside the Ryan budget.

This is exactly why they will never pass a budget. They see how the Republicans take it on the chin for trying and laugh at the amount of votes they collect by simply not being Republicans. Sniper shoots from a distance at a huge bullseye while the Republicans look around with nothing to shoot back at.

 

[irishpat183]

Someone rep this man.

I can't!! Too much love for Leppy already!

 

[connor_in]

Discussions like these ^^^ are why I post so many articles on here about facts comparing red states and blue states. Guys like Goirish41 and I have completely different views of this country and what brings success, so I argue strongly for federalism.

Our country was founded to get away from central planning and an overreaching federal government. That's why the states have the rights they do.

If you like a left leaning, progressive blue state and all that comes with it, go live there.

If you prefer the opposite, go live in a red state.

Leppy...I am there for you...I hate how Washington claims to control EVERYTHING just by invoking "its a interstate commerce clause thing so don't you states worry your little heads about it"

 

[Ndaccountant]

You know when things really got worse for everyone? When the economy went into the tank and people were losing their homes, their retirement savings, and their jobs. The recession happened under a republican president who got the country into two unfunded wars and put reckless tax rates into place -- an action that republicans to this day still has the gull to suggest will create jobs and repair the economy despite every shred of evidence.

Since the Dems took office, the economy has improved and you are just lying to yourself if you can't admit this. The DOW just reached a record high this week. Your hatred for Obama is blinding you to reality.

Bush Jr. and Romney are cartoons of your cause that serve as examples of what has gone wrong with the republican party. As a Democrat, I hope your idiotic party never learns their lesson and keeps putting goofs like these two forward as candidates so the GOP never holds power in this country again.

Look, I don't think it is fair to point fingers either way here. Some would argue that the recession was caused by policies enacted under Clinton, such as Clinton and Rubin calling for the end of Glass-Stegall and for the National Homeowners Strategy of 1994. Additionally, Bush didn't stop the policies. Both had their hand in it.

I do find it interesting that you say, look the DOW is at an all-time high, yet it just bested a high acheived under Bush. You can say the economy has improved since Obama took office, but I would say how could it not improve?

Whether we like it or not, our economy operates on cycles. Where these cycles fall in terms of who is holding office is nothing more than timing IMO. Certain policies may enhance the gain/pain, but for the most part, the cycle will come and go.

 

[RDU Irish]

I think when we're talking about the executive branch unilaterly killing american citizens without charge, trial, or due process, a Hitler reference is a very nice reference.

Heres something I read somewhere.

"Pretty ironic that Rand Paul is filibustering because a Nobel Peace Prize winner won't say that he won't kill the citizens he governs"

Put that under the definition of Ironic.

I think Rand Paul is a great American and adds tremendous value to the political process and operates with integrity. Unfortunately there are not many others I can say the same thing about in DC.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Put that under the definition of Ironic.

I think Rand Paul is a great American and adds tremendous value to the political process and operates with integrity. Unfortunately there are not many others I can say the same thing about in DC.

Sad but true.

 

[chicago51]

First off I put the Bush v Gore comment up there because I knew it would generate some heat. LOL I accomplished my goal.

Second I support Ran Paul for filibustering the right. The thing is though when Autney General Holder is talking about using drones he is talking about someone in a 9-11 situation or when they are actively combacting the US government with force.

He said it would not be constitutional to kill citizens otherwise:

HOLDER: I would not think that that would be an appropriate use of any kind of lethal force. We would deal with that in the way that we typically deal with a situation like that.

CRUZ: With all due respect, General Holder, my question wasn’t about appropriateness or prosecutorial discretion. It was a simple legal question: Does the Constitution allow a US citizen on US soil who doesn’t pose an imminent threat to be killed by the US government?

HOLDER: I do not believe that — again, you have to look at all of the facts. But on the facts that you have given me — and this is a hypothetical — I would not think that in that situation the use of a drone or lethal force would be appropriate, because

(Holder should have just said no right here and it would have been the end of it I don't know why he rambeld on.)

(Again a 9-11 type situation may give the government no choice.)

CRUZ: General Holder, I have to tell you, I find it remarkable that in that hypothetical — which is deliberately very simple — you are unable to give a simple one-word, one-syllable answer: “No.”

HOLDER: A person who is not engaged as you described — this is the problem with hypotheticals, but the way in which you have described this person sitting at the cafe, not doing anything imminently, the use of lethal force would not be appropriate, would not be something –

CRUZ: I find it remarkable that you still will not give an opinion on the constitutionality. Let me move on to the next topic, ’cause we – we’ve gone round and round.

HOLDER: Let me be clear. Translate my ‘appropriate’ to ‘no.’ I thought I was saying ‘no,’ all right? No.

(So he said no, he was just trying to hard to sound smart by doing it. I don't see a huge issue.)

 

[chicago51]

This is exactly why they will never pass a budget. They see how the Republicans take it on the chin for trying and laugh at the amount of votes they collect by simply not being Republicans. Sniper shoots from a distance at a huge bullseye while the Republicans look around with nothing to shoot back at.

What?

Have you looked at any public polling. Americans overwhelmingly want the wealthy to pay more taxes. They don't just want deep cuts. Most Americans want some sort of a mixture. Big poll from the USA today said 76% percent wanted a mix of cuts and new revenue. Now of the 76% percent that doesn't mean they want the same exact balance that Obama does, American people overwhemingly want a balanced plan of some sort.

Only 21% wanted just cuts. Yes 3% percent wanted only taxes which is were I fall in. Although I don't consider savings to be considered as being a cut. I am all for eliminating waste fraud and abuse. We need a smarter government.

The country as a whole is center to center left on issues. Especially if they don't which party supports which issue or plan. Like this poll here:

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/02/27-7

Sequester Poll: Respondents Buck Party Trends - Business Insider

 

[chicago51]

Here we go, it's all Bush's fault. I think this is the 8th time we've discusssed here why 2008 happened. I don't hate obama. I despise his policies and his attitudes toward this country.

1) 2008 was not a direct result of George Bush. That was a long time coming because government got involved in mortgage loans for people who had no business owning a home and couldn't afford it.

2) Don't preach to us about unfunded wars when we're looking obamacare right in the face. Democrats voted for those wars, too. Bush was no dictator.

3) The economy has improved because the DOW is at a record high? Your blind love affair with the most progressive, anti business, social welfare president is astounding. When this guy took office in 2009, unemployment was at 7.6%. Where are we now? 8%.

4) Median household incomes have declined 4 or 5 percent in since then.

5) Record numbers of people are on food stamps.

6) Half of college grads (some of them it's their own fault for fake majors) don't have full time jobs after graduation.

7) National debt has increased by $6 trillion in 4 years.

8) Democrat controlled Senate hasn't passed a damn budget in 4 years.

9) If Bush Jr. was such a good, how the hell did Kerry lose to him?

10) Romney wasn't my first choice, but hot dog vendors have more business experience than obama and would be better in office.

But you're right, I'm so blind to reality. Everything's great. The land of unicorns is upon us. We've come so far. We're moving forward!

Do republicans have a jobs plan? Instead of just saying "no" they should but something on the table.

You really can't judge the President's economic policy until we actually give it a shot.

Again I appreciate alternative points of view. Can someone explain what like and dislike about the American Jobs Act?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/jobs_act.pdf

Here is the brief fact sheet on it. I am actually curious about what republicans find so awful about it. It has alot of GOP friendly ideas like tax breaks for small businesses, increasing employment opportunity for veterans.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Do republicans have a jobs plan?

You still think the federal government is supposed to supply everyone jobs huh? Amazing.

Government can put policies in place to make investing/ growing/ hiring more people easier or harder for private companies.

Reagan inherited a $hitty economy from Carter. Look what he did and how it impacted the economy/ unemployment.

Now compare that with the past 4 years. Night and day.

 

[chicago51]

You still think the federal government is supposed to supply everyone jobs huh? Amazing.

Government can put policies in place to make investing/ growing/ hiring more people easier or harder for private companies.

Reagan inherited a $hitty economy from Carter. Look what he did and how it impacted the economy/ unemployment.

Now compare that with the past 4 years. Night and day.

So you are okay with increasing the national debt by a large amount to fix the economy then?

 

[irishpat183]

You still think the federal government is supposed to supply everyone jobs huh? Amazing.
Government can put policies in place to make investing/ growing/ hiring more people easier or harder for private companies.

Reagan inherited a $hitty economy from Carter. Look what he did and how it impacted the economy/ unemployment.

Now compare that with the past 4 years. Night and day.

Yes, they actually do. Which is sad.

 

[chicago51]

You still think the federal government is supposed to supply everyone jobs huh? Amazing.

So let me get this straight guys so I understand your line of thought.

You blaim the president for the bad economy?

Yet the president yet nothing as been passed outside of the annual budgets since the stimulus since 09. So basically for over 3 years we have done nothing to try help the economy because the Republicans have blocked it.

So you blaim the President for being unable to do anything for the economy for the last 3 plus years when yourself's think the government should not be helping the economy? So the President rather he has wanted to or not has followed your strategy for over 3 years. So you are saying your own strategy stinks.

ACA does not even go into effect until January of 2014 so I am not sure how can blaim that on the bad economy.

Unless you think that we shoud deny people with prexisting conditions because stuff like that has gone into effect.

 

[Irish8248]

So let me get this straight guys so I understand your line of thought.

You blaim the president for the bad economy?

Yet the president yet nothing as been passed outside of the annual budgets since the stimulus since 09. So basically for over 3 years we have done nothing to try help the economy because the Republicans have blocked it.

So you blaim the President for being unable to do anything for the economy for the last 3 plus years when yourself's think the government should not be helping the economy? So the President rather he has wanted to or not has followed your strategy for over 3 years. So you are saying your own strategy stinks.

ACA does not even go into effect until January of 2014 so I am not sure how can blaim that on the bad economy.

Unless you think that we shoud deny people with prexisting conditions because stuff like that has gone into effect.

Did you forget the 2 years of unimpeded govt control by the dems? Were sorry your president didn't think the economy was a necessity until he got towards election. Only so he could blame republicans despite having full control for half his presidency ..... You're right it's republicans fault