Police State USA

Bishop2b5

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I think the Obama community college thing will fall on its face. A big government handout to prop up college budgets, and it won't solve the problem.

I'm no welfare expert, or even that knowledgeable about it, but it has always struck me as of that their isn't some government-funded awareness campaign with celebrities who are popular in inner cities who promote a simple thing called "don't have kids when you're young!" I'd go as far as offering those birth control shots for free, or even pay them a small amount (assuming the science says they don't harm teenagers).

But that doesn't change the fact that prisons look at fourth grade test scores to gauge future populations. Clearly, according to the private sector, the damage is done by the time they're ten. I would guess we need funding for preschool and pre-preschool. (Okay so I read into that and it's disputed online. Politifact says it's not true, but Forbes says it is. Either way I know enough inner city teachers to know that the scores many have by the time they're in first grade are so low that they're basically guaranteed to stay that way.)

I think we could give 120% of the GI bill benefits for inner city youth. Hell give them a $5,000 signing bonus and $20,000 if they last two years in the military. If it can actually change the course of their lives.

I don't know, I'm just a dude with a keyboard but I sure as shit am with you about being against pumping money down the same old drain. We need programs/ideas that work. Great now I'm going to spend $200 on Amazon reading welfare solution ideas haha



Which is my reason #2 for ending the Drug War. Why the hell are we giving people felonies for nonviolent drug offenses? Felonies = unemployable = stuck in da hood.

Reason #1 is marijuana is neat.

Sadly, much of what you say about kids seeming to be locked into a bad future by an early age seems to be all too true. What do we do about it? Part of the solution is changing the home environment so that parents intellectually stimulate those kids, read to them, encourage them to learn, and let them know that the sky's the limit for them. Unfortunately, therein lies the problem. The parents don't come from a culture where those things are important. They didn't have that. They don't know how and don't see the importance. My sister taught in a couple of small rural schools and saw the same issue with the poor white kids from backwoods families. It's not just an inner city black issue. I don't know how you improve that situation... at least not in any quick way.

I like your celebrity involvement suggestion. The key is to start getting kids in poverty to see what works for escaping it, to see the path out, and to give them not only encouragement, but real hope and a plan they can believe in and follow. Maybe some "Life 101" type classes and changing the culture of peer pressure to fail and fall into that cycle of failure into peer pressure to succeed.
 

NDgradstudent

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And yet barring black communities from FHA loans for decades and (immediately after that ended) the launching of the disastrous War on Drugs is the fault of the federal government. Yet I haven't heard one iota from you about it. We're given two options from you, personal responsibility/family structure and liberals. It's like you're grooming yourself to be a Fox News talkinghead.

To the contrary, I have given reasons here why I doubt that the increase in crime post 1960s, including among blacks, can be attributed in the main to the war on drugs. I'm happy to expand on my arguments though.

It is true that just over half of the federal prison population is doing time for drug offenses; however, federal prisoners only account for 9% of all incarcerated persons. Drug offenders only account for 16% of all persons in state prisons. The percent of black prisoners doing time for drug offenses is about the same as the same group of whites, Hispanics, etc.; 74% of blacks in state prisons are doing time for crimes or property crimes and only 16% are doing time for drug crimes. All of these figures come from this BJS report (particularly Table 13, pg. 15). I am fine with states decriminalizing marijuana if they want to, but for the reasons I just mentioned (as well as those in the earlier post I linked to above) I doubt it will have much of an effect on black incarceration rates.

Why is that striking? The entire fucking country is moving south and west and has been since the Mayflower. It's noteworthy when that isn't the case. "I'm moving south because of the Republicans!" has been uttered about six times by migrating blacks (source).

Actually, in this article, several of the people interviewed make the comment about the cost of living being far lower in the South. Tax rates are a large part of that.

Is this a rhetorical question? This isn't even worth a response. I would think a guy who supposedly goes to grad school at Notre Dame would have the ability to 1) make better use of statistics and 2) avoid asinine generalizations (ie "liberal states").

Right, because all states are equally liberal? Statistics are about generalizations. The average black-to-white imprisonment ratio in the states to vote for the Democratic Presidential candidate in 2004, 2008, and 2012 (save NM) is 8.8, whereas in the states to vote for the Republican Presidential candidate in 2004, 2008, and 2012 (save WY) it is 5.7. Those are pretty good proxies for liberal and conservative states. The likely explanation for this is that conservative states have lower incarceration thresholds, and so whites are more likely to be in prison, lowering the ratio. The percent of blacks in prison is roughly equal between liberal (6%) and conservative (6.4%) states. The reason I bring this up is that welfare and education spending are higher in liberal states and drug laws tend to be more lenient, and yet liberal states do not have particularly lower levels of black incarceration in absolute terms or relative to whites.

To reply to your earlier post:

Basically, you don't know anything about me.

I certainly don’t, although if you have been to any home football games the last couple years, we have been in Notre Dame Stadium at the same time. So we have that connection. I also think we agree about foreign policy?

Convincing white people to move into black neighborhoods isn't even something the government would need to encourage these days. It's a little thing called gentrification.

Gentrification has had interesting effects on the criminal justice system in Brooklyn. The neighborhoods don't stay black after whites move in.
 

T Town Tommy

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I was simply pointing out that when the GOP had the opportunity to change things, they did not. They chose not to solve these decades old problems. Why? They are either just talking points they are spewing or they do not really care about poor black people. Period.

So what is Baltimore's excuse? It sure isn't a Republican stronghold. I am shocked that the amount of money poured in to the school systems there has has resulted in some of the poorest results in the country. Further I am shocked at how a city that is, and has been governed by Democrats for years, is worse off today than they were in the past.

You see 41... it isn't a Democratic issue. If so, you could say that the liberal policies of Baltimore has been an utter failure and created the Baltimore we see today. So has liberalism failed in Baltimore? We can play this game all day or we can try to determine what we as a society can do to help fix the situation. It isn't going to be easy. It is going to require that the individual change their way of thinking however. It starts there and then utilize the available systems in place to assist you where you need to go.

I am all for early childhood education, pre school programs, and anything that can reach poverty stricken kids at the earliest age. Too many reports out there that state this is a major factor in whether individuals can escape poverty. Furthermore, I am for all the social programs that can assist those individuals along the way in order to escape their condition. What I am not for is generational welfare or giving handouts to people who have no interest in helping themselves or their children. I am against school districts that either spend their money unwisely or protect teachers that should not be teaching. Sadly I see it every day. And I am against all the corporations in America that get rich off the government subsidies they are somehow tied to. Case in point is the food stamp program. Abused by both the recipient and the grocer. And there are another thousand examples to give as well.

So... is Bishop correct? Yes... to a certain degree. Are you and others correct? Yes... to a certain degree. The war on poverty will not be won by one party, ideology, etc. But this I know... no amount of political posturing will make the situation any better. The last 60 years and billions upon billions of dollars wasted proves that.
 

irishff1014

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No idea if the charges make sense or not. Only the state's attorney knows. I will say though, she didn't make her own job any easier by the manner in which she addressed the protesters. I would think that will be used by defense at some point...SMH. Could have just said allow me to do my job w/o burning shit down please...nope, had to pander. Came off a bit like..."I got you man, don't worry". Won't play well IMHO.

Not to mention her husband is one of the city councilman.

One thing I don't understand is the investigation process. Something like this happens either the Maryland State Police or The Maryland states attorney should investage the case and have a lot less favorites then if Baltimore city or if a neighboring county were to do it. Not sure how it works in other states but MD each county and large cities have there own states attorney. I feel they should be skipped due to the working relationships they have with those agencies.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Now, let's get back to the situation in Baltimore.

Earlier I alluded to the timeline of the event. This incident happened on April 12th! That was roughly two to three weeks ago. Though the victim didn't die until the 19th.

You don't think that is enough time for other videos to surface from this parade through town? You don't think it is enough time for the collective blood to boil of the neighborhood's population? But the media didn't pick up on this until much later, when the protest sans riots occurred. You don't think that a "Internal Affairs" investigation wasn't triggered from the moment that Grey required medical attention? Grey's death was only the flash-point of the build-up to the rioting. I mean, can't you see how this presentation to the State Prosecutor as reported by the media was for show? I bet that State and Federal officials knew within days if not hours what was coming down the line.

I mention the timeline, and what really happened, versus the media presentation because this is exactly the kind of thing the Royal Ulster Constabulary used to do in the Republican neighborhoods of Belfast and Derry. Exactly!

The formula included brutalizing an (innocent of any charges) citizen, and then covering it up by badmouthing the population from whence he came, before the local population could gain support. The bottom line in Ireland was that a people that were repressed and dominated for 800 years were criminals and thugs, not guerrillas, (afforded military rights) fighting for their freedom.

And I am very fearful that has also happened in our country (with disturbing regularity). In some ways Native Americans have advanced their own rights through education and protest better over the last fifty years than have African-Americans, although one thinks of African-Americans when one thinks of civil rights. But if you look at reparations made by the government, etc., it just isn't so.

But the simple fact, before anyone talks about fish, or fishing, is that African-Americans ancestors were brought to this country as slaves. Not even recognized as people, they were held as property. Then as the events of the later half of the nineteenth century unfolded, their literal slavery was replaced with a form of economic slavery. I advance this thesis knowing full well that my ancestors were oft brought to this country in shackles or under the guise of economic enslavement, but they (the Irish) were able to change their lot. Part was by industry, but part was the fact that by changing their last names, many were no longer identifiable as Irish, especially in second and third generation populations.

African-Americans did their share to make this country great, especially considering their disadvantaged status. From science to the arts to the protection of this country, African-Americans did their part when called upon.

An influential figure in my life was my senior drill instructor. He began his Marine career as one of the first African-Americans participating in a South Pacific invasion in WW II, served in Korea and ended up serving three tours in Viet Nam before he became a drill instructor. Without getting into stories, he was one of the fairest, and best men I have ever met. (SOB used to fire me as platoon guide every other day!)

So back to it. During the last election cycle someone on this board, presented video of people at the polling places, showing voters(mostly minorities) with a distinct lack of political consciousness. These people had no awareness of national issues, or even how the government was composed. The insinuation was that our democratic republic was in the hands of these people that would ruin it!

So my question is, what is the difference between political, social, or moral consciousness? I mean don't you actually have to repair the moral fiber of an injustice before you can work on enough social issues to amend the situation in the greater context of a society? And isn't that a prerequisite to determining with justice and fairness (an individuals unalienable rights) to determine whether that individual is able to "learn to fish," or pull themselves out of poverty? Don't you also need to make sure there are no "invisible thumbs" tipping the scales holding them there?

As more video's surface and are identified as "stops" on Grey's route, the events of that day become more clear. It was a ride from hell. I don't know if any of you have ever been cuffed and shackled, and then transported in a vehicle without being belted in, but I will wager any of you would run screaming from the opportunity if it presented itself! (The vehicles in question don't even have the padding found in modern passenger vehicles, do they?)

And do you think these six misguided cops were intelligent and creative enough to have made this up on their own? No. Anyone that would leave all the mountains of evidence against themselves never spent a night at the Holiday Inn Express! They learned it from someone else! (Brilliant Point Number One? I think not!) After all, the specificity of the charges, as well as the number of charges shows the prosecutor has ample evidence. And I think the prosecutors want to drop the hammer up front, therefore avoid a public trial where much of this may become public and incite more unrest.

And on to Brilliant Point Number Two (NOT), the fact that there were African-American cops involved in the incident makes my point. The racial issue gets played as a smoke screen to cover the true nature of the beast, it is a class issue, more than a race issue. If you want the proof of what I say, find out how many of the African-American cops charged in this incident (there were three) lived in the neighborhood (or any of these depressed neighborhoods)? Care to guess at the answer?

To conclude : Fix the fishing polls and stock the lake before you force someone to rely on fishing to feed themselves. And if others grow crops, teach them to farm, too. And some day go over to their house for dinner, and return the favor. Make a friend, show some love and forget a little of what you were taught to experience what is real, and what is not.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Not to mention her husband is one of the city councilman.

One thing I don't understand is the investigation process. Something like this happens either the Maryland State Police or The Maryland states attorney should investage the case and have a lot less favorites then if Baltimore city or if a neighboring county were to do it. Not sure how it works in other states but MD each county and large cities have there own states attorney. I feel they should be skipped due to the working relationships they have with those agencies.

Some states, Maryland, and Florida, have States attorneys. In Ohio they are called County Prosecutors. In states like Ohio, the State law is interpreted and administered at the County level, in other states it remains interpreted and administered by the State at a County level. I think I said that right.

Like some places have Prosecutors, and some District Attornies. It is all about the state constitution and how local administration is franchised.
 

IrishinSyria

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Timeline: What We Know About The Freddie Gray Arrest : The Two-Way : NPR

Worth reading through, gives a detailed and fair account of what happened and what actions the prosecution thinks is worthy of charges. OF NOTE: the Washington Post's account that the other prisoner in the van thought he heard Gray try to hurt himself appears to be a huge misrepresentation.

Honestly, I don't think the murder charge will stick, based on what we know now. But manslaughter might.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Timeline: What We Know About The Freddie Gray Arrest : The Two-Way : NPR

Worth reading through, gives a detailed and fair account of what happened and what actions the prosecution thinks is worthy of charges. OF NOTE: the Washington Post's account that the other prisoner in the van thought he heard Gray try to hurt himself appears to be a huge misrepresentation.

Honestly, I don't think the murder charge will stick, based on what we know now. But manslaughter might.

Mad Reps, Sir!

The comments are worthy of note :

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K P • 14 hours ago
Yesterday, I turned on Fox News. They were ecstatically talking about how Freddie Gray had inflicted his injuries on himself causing his death and saying how this was common.
I turned it on this afternoon, and they were in shock, denial and shock. They've already started on the prosecutor. Pretty soon they will be blaming Obama for Freddie Gray's death.

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Big Al Picante K P • 13 hours ago
Won't be long till they make a connection to BENGHAZI!

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D Scully Big Al Picante • 13 hours ago
Wait...Are you saying this isn't related to Benghazi?

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chateau margaux D Scully • 12 hours ago
and the link to ObamaCare just as it was for Garner...............Asthma

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D Scully chateau margaux • 5 hours ago
Oh yeah...that's right. Death panels.

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Big Al Picante D Scully • 13 hours ago
Benghazi is like the non-delegation doctrine, long past but always lurks in the back ground.

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Ted FullName D Scully • 2 hours ago
Over Benghazi? No, I don't think that I will ever get over Benghazi. Those wounds run, pretty deep.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

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chateau margaux Big Al Picante • 12 hours ago
and ObamaCare and Monika

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Ted FullName Big Al Picante • 2 hours ago
Remember during his presidential run how Biden referred to Giuliani's comments? A noun, a verb, and 911.
Sound eerily similar to their harping on Benghazi? Or am I creating whole cloth?
;-)

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arlenesimmins K P • 14 hours ago
Wow, I hope you turned off FOX before you became ill.

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Running Dog arlenesimmins • 12 hours ago
One cannot underestimate the impact Fox has on America. It is dangerous because it has an agenda.
It is both funny and sad that so many Americans who follow Fox are dependent on the very government that Fox constantly attacks.

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Dred Scott Running Dog • 11 hours ago
Without Fox news (news in the lower case), facts and truth would have much power in American society.

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Mouser Mouser Running Dog • 12 hours ago
This case it wasn't just Fox News. CNN did the same thing among some other news outlets.
The reason they were so wrong is because they all quoted the same anonymous police source despite the fact the medical Examiner came out disputing those claims.

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Ardat Yakshi Running Dog • 11 hours ago
I agree If there is one thing I can't stand, it is a news outlet that slants the news to advance a certain agenda.you know fox is the worst one, just read the comments. You can always tell the bias of a news outlet by the biases of its most loyal consumers, given that people of any stripe tend to get their news from organizations that confirm their own biases. And never mind the fact that they get money from groups advancing special agendas: they should be forced from the air.

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freedumb sings Ardat Yakshi • 10 hours ago
Who are you???
and what have you done with ardat?????

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edward connell Ardat Yakshi • 9 hours ago
"they should be forced from the air." Free speech is good. Your preposed censorship.... not so much. When I look at the ignorant people who are buying the "Fox" goods, I don't blame the seller. I blame the consumer. I shop local and buy organic. The majority of Americans do not. I blame them, not the GMO farmer. Fox news is not dangerous. A small minority of their audience may be. But lets tone down the "threat" level. Cause that's silly.

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Gary Isabusyguy edward connell • 8 hours ago
There used to be standards that news channels held themselves to
fox dodged that by claiming that they are entertainment
At the very least truth in advertising laws should force them to remove news from their name

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Ardat Yakshi edward connell • 9 hours ago
I applaud your environmental consciousness when choosing food and I share your judgmentalism of people who support corporate gmo factory farms, but no right is absolute, even speech. We already shut people up on college campuses when they engage in hate speech, and Faux news has been screaming "fire" in a crowded theater ever since Obama was elected. Like I said, they are yellow journalism incarnate. Thank goodness for npr.

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Scooter McFurry Ardat Yakshi • 24 minutes ago
I'd be hard pressed to name a news outlet, contemporary or historical, that did not have an agenda.

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Jesse1981 Ardat Yakshi • 10 hours ago
They all have an agenda that's being pushed. Watch and read it all, then make an informed decision based on available confirmed facts and your own moral code. The days of just reporting the news have long since faded into history.

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DonAxe Running Dog • 9 hours ago
The MSM does not have an agenda?

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D Scully arlenesimmins • 13 hours ago
Fox wasn't alone in reporting it.
It is valuable to tune in to Fox periodically. It's the only way to know what propaganda they're feeding to people.

Scooter McFurry > Ardat Yakshi • 24 minutes ago
I'd be hard pressed to name a news outlet, contemporary or historical, that did not have an agenda.
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One other person is typing…



Jesse1981 > Ardat Yakshi • 10 hours ago
They all have an agenda that's being pushed. Watch and read it all, then make an informed decision based on available confirmed facts and your own moral code. The days of just reporting the news have long since faded into history.
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DonAxe > Running Dog • 9 hours ago
The MSM does not have an agenda?
△ ▽

D Scully > arlenesimmins • 13 hours ago
Fox wasn't alone in reporting it.
It is valuable to tune in to Fox periodically. It's the only way to know what propaganda they're feeding to people.
△ ▽

So true, dat!
 

Polish Leppy 22

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So you are advocating for Obama's sending everyone to community college to give the this chance you are talking about?Or lowering the rates on student loans? You must want to back infrastructure renewal projects that would put these people to work and off the streets while providing an urgent need for everyone. Maybe put a little money in their pockets to get the economy rolling again? That would help them get on the right track ...

Or are you saying that we should continue to target them for BS crimes and send them to prison? Should we gut food programs so they starve or remove the safety not altogether so if hunger does not kill them homelessness will. Because obviously they will not have access to healthcare if we are really going to impose meaningful tough love. Your view of the the social magic of conservative policies is the only thing that is generous here which is why conservatives will have trouble winning national office for the foreseeable future.

1) Sending everyone to community college is almost as bad an idea as trying to push everyone to 4 year college.

2) Interest rates are one thing, but low interest rates on tuition at $50,000 a year (or more) still sucks and is one of the biggest misfortunes for this generation. These colleges and universities are getting away with robbery and I wouldn't shed a tear if the bubble burst on them.

3) Infrastructure jobs are temporary. Not a long term solution.

4) If people are dirt poor and are getting money either from a temporary infrastructure job or from government assistance, they should be saving as much as they can.
 

Bluto

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1) Sending everyone to community college is almost as bad an idea as trying to push everyone to 4 year college.

2) Interest rates are one thing, but low interest rates on tuition at $50,000 a year (or more) still sucks and is one of the biggest misfortunes for this generation. These colleges and universities are getting away with robbery and I wouldn't shed a tear if the bubble burst on them.

3) Infrastructure jobs are temporary. Not a long term solution.

4) If people are dirt poor and are getting money either from a temporary infrastructure job or from government assistance, they should be saving as much as they can.

I agree to a certain extent on number 1. College ain't for everyone and there's no shame in that. What they should have is a how to operate heavy machinery classes (those dudes make a good living).

To number 3. They are indeed long term solutions in that all infrastructure needs to be monitored, maintained and eventually upgraded (or we can choose to simply let stuff explode/collapse and then replace it. Lol.).
 

GoIrish41

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1) Sending everyone to community college is almost as bad an idea as trying to push everyone to 4 year college.

2) Interest rates are one thing, but low interest rates on tuition at $50,000 a year (or more) still sucks and is one of the biggest misfortunes for this generation. These colleges and universities are getting away with robbery and I wouldn't shed a tear if the bubble burst on them.

3) Infrastructure jobs are temporary. Not a long term solution.

4) If people are dirt poor and are getting money either from a temporary infrastructure job or from government assistance, they should be saving as much as they can.

1) I do not know how the community college program would work. My point is what programs are the GOP proposing to fix the situation of helping poor people? Their demonization of the poor and rhetoric about how they should just try harder is all I see from them. The dems are making proposals that they think may help. All the GOP has is criticism and no votes and exchanging handouts to the poor for handouts for the rich. I have seen people in this thread advocating just abandoning communities like Baltimore altogether. How is that helping?

2) I am not for sticking it to universities if the people who are hurt are poor kids who do not get to go to college to pull themselves out of poverty.

3) infrastructure jobs may be temporary but that should not be an excuse to do nothing. Rebuilding the electrical grid, failing sewage systems, wind and solar energy infrastructure, crumbling roads and bridges and schools would provide enough jobs to put a generation of poor people to work. That generation would serve as a positive example to their sons and daughters instead of a negative one. This is how the cycle is broken and this nation rebuilds itself up in the process.

4) poor people do not save money. They spend it to survive.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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I agree to a certain extent on number 1. College ain't for everyone and there's no shame in that. What they should have is a how to operate heavy machinery classes (those dudes make a good living).

To number 3. They are indeed long term solutions in that all infrastructure needs to be monitored, maintained and eventually upgraded (or we can choose to simply let stuff explode/collapse and then replace it. Lol.).

Yes, people in skilled trades make a good living and have very little debt.

Number 3: it doesn't take thousands or millions of people to monitor or upgrade our infrastructure. When something does need to be repaired or upgraded, it is a temporary project for a lot of people.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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1) I do not know how the community college program would work. My point is what programs are the GOP proposing to fix the situation of helping poor people? Their demonization of the poor and rhetoric about how they should just try harder is all I see from them. The dems are making proposals that they think may help. All the GOP has is criticism and no votes and exchanging handouts to the poor for handouts for the rich. I have seen people in this thread advocating just abandoning communities like Baltimore altogether. How is that helping?

2) I am not for sticking it to universities if the people who are hurt are poor kids who do not get to go to college to pull themselves out of poverty.

3) infrastructure jobs may be temporary but that should not be an excuse to do nothing. Rebuilding the electrical grid, failing sewage systems, wind and solar energy infrastructure, crumbling roads and bridges and schools would provide enough jobs to put a generation of poor people to work. That generation would serve as a positive example to their sons and daughters instead of a negative one. This is how the cycle is broken and this nation rebuilds itself up in the process.

4) poor people do not save money. They spend it to survive.

1) I'm not in favor of abandoning entire communities because a lot of people want to do right and succeed, but don't know how. If I am in public office I'm telling everyone in every community (not just Baltimore) that government isn't here to give you everything, government isn't here to run your life, and if you follow these 3 rules you have a very small chance of being poor in America.

a) Graduate high school
b) Wait till 21 or older to have kids and be married when you do it
c) Be able to hold a full time job

2) We're all getting screwed by the universities except for the top small percentage in this country who can afford anything. Don't single out the poor there.

3) I always get a kick out of the line "rebuild our nation" like we live in some third world shithole. Wasn't the stimulus supposed to fix all that?

4) You're right and wrong. Wrong in that they survive because of government safety nets (food, housing, healthcare, education, etc). Right in that some people do spend when they get more...check out any big city with high rates of poverty and you'll still see designer jeans, iphones, and $200 pairs of Jordan's. Doesn't mean it's smart or even good for the economy.
 

kmoose

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1) I do not know how the community college program would work.

It wouldn't. What good is a degree if there are no jobs to be had? The Middle Class has all but disappeared in the US because of the death of manufacturing. While technology jobs have helped bridge the gap, they have not been a satisfactory replacement. You only need so many cable/satellite installers. If a guy has an Electronics Engineering Degree, it isn't going to do him any good if there are only so many new cable/satellite installations to go around. But I'm sure these people will be able to find some camaraderie in their Occupy camp(s).

My point is what programs are the GOP proposing to fix the situation of helping poor people? Their demonization of the poor and rhetoric about how they should just try harder is all I see from them. The dems are making proposals that they think may help. All the GOP has is criticism and no votes and exchanging handouts to the poor for handouts for the rich.

The Republicans are making proposals as well. The problem is that people vilify the GOP proposals as "corporate welfare", and accuse the GOP of trying to help the rich get richer. Strong companies build jobs. What is not a problem of either Party, but of both, is that government has to stop rewarding political donations with cash subsidies for businesses like Solyndra.

I have seen people in this thread advocating just abandoning communities like Baltimore altogether. How is that helping?

It's not, and it's a ridiculous stance. But I think that most who have voiced it were not really serious about it, and were just letting off some steam.

infrastructure jobs may be temporary but that should not be an excuse to do nothing. Rebuilding the electrical grid, failing sewage systems, wind and solar energy infrastructure, crumbling roads and bridges and schools would provide enough jobs to put a generation of poor people to work. That generation would serve as a positive example to their sons and daughters instead of a negative one. This is how the cycle is broken and this nation rebuilds itself up in the process.

I absolutely agree with this. Obama has been in office for 7 years now. How come we aren't seeing results from this program? There *is* a program, isn't there? Wasn't one of his campaign promises to start to fix the infrastructure issues in the country?

poor people do not save money. They spend it to survive.

That may be true of many, but we also know that many spend it on frivolous stuff like marijuana and meth.
 

IrishinSyria

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I absolutely agree with this. Obama has been in office for 7 years now. How come we aren't seeing results from this program? There *is* a program, isn't there? Wasn't one of his campaign promises to start to fix the infrastructure issues in the country?

crimechart1401.png


fig2national.gif


At a macro level, the president's policies seem to be working just fine to me.
 

GoIrish41

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It wouldn't. What good is a degree if there are no jobs to be had? The Middle Class has all but disappeared in the US because of the death of manufacturing. While technology jobs have helped bridge the gap, they have not been a satisfactory replacement. You only need so many cable/satellite installers. If a guy has an Electronics Engineering Degree, it isn't going to do him any good if there are only so many new cable/satellite installations to go around. But I'm sure these people will be able to find some camaraderie in their Occupy camp(s).



The Republicans are making proposals as well. The problem is that people vilify the GOP proposals as "corporate welfare", and accuse the GOP of trying to help the rich get richer. Strong companies build jobs. What is not a problem of either Party, but of both, is that government has to stop rewarding political donations with cash subsidies for businesses like Solyndra.



It's not, and it's a ridiculous stance. But I think that most who have voiced it were not really serious about it, and were just letting off some steam.



I absolutely agree with this. Obama has been in office for 7 years now. How come we aren't seeing results from this program? There *is* a program, isn't there? Wasn't one of his campaign promises to start to fix the infrastructure issues in the country?



That may be true of many, but we also know that many spend it on frivolous stuff like marijuana and meth.

First paragraph ... Why separate the idea about creating jobs through infrastructure renewal and the idea about education programs? There could be tons of jobs created if the old Koch Bros fossils fuel economy would give way to new energy initiatives. But we cling to fuels that destroy our environment because existing corporations are funding politics and new energy is met with ridicule and new jobs are left on the table. If we embrace them our Educational institutions would train the disciplines we need to build a new economy instead of putting all of our eggs in one fossils fuel basket. Renewable energy is the future as soon as we allow it to be and are willing to direct our resources appropriately.

Para two ... What proposals are they making? Making the rich richer as poor people suffer is not a legitimate proposal. We have tried the trickle down thing for decades and by now we all know it does not work ... Especially for the poor.

Para 3 ... Blowing off steam? C'mon man. That is not far removed from the attitude of many on the right. And the more publicly and emphatically it is stated the more offensive and destructive it is. There is a reason why we are seeing people rise up in protest more and more. Blowing off steam in word and action is infuriating for the recipients. But that is dismissed as people being race baiters, thugs and " animals" and not legitimate long standing social grievances.

Para 4 ... The weapon of choice -- blame Obama. Ignore the fact that he received no cooperation from the GOP in those seven years and their number one goal of discrediting the president. Congress is controlled by the GOP now. Where are their plans to build and repair aging infrastructure. Poo pooing policies is not leading. They are driving now. Where are they taking us? To the gas station where big oil keeps getting bigger and richer.


Para 5 ... A young white middle class girl who lives on my middle class street died of a heroine overdose less than a week ago. Should we all think white people are wasting their lives because of this incident. No. People do stupid shit no matter their race and they do not represent everyone who has the same color skin.
 
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kmoose

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First paragraph ... Why separate the idea about creating jobs through infrastructure renewal and the idea about education programs? There could be tons of jobs created if the old Koch Bros fossils fuel economy would give way to new energy initiatives. But we cling to fuels that destroy our environment because existing corporations are funding politics and new energy is met with ridicule and new jobs are left on the table. If we embrace them our Educational institutions would train the disciplines we need to build a new economy instead of putting all of our eggs in one fossils fuel basket. Renewable energy is the future as soon as we allow it to be and are willing to direct our resources appropriately.

I agree that we should be pumping more money into renewable energy. But that doesn't change the fact that sending people to college without having jobs for them to assume when they graduate is just a waste of time. You simply end up with a better educated group of people receiving unemployment and other benefits.


Para two ... What proposals are they making? Making the rich richer as poor people suffer is not a legitimate proposal. We have tried the trickle down thing for decades and by now we all know it does not work ... Especially for the poor.

I'm not an economist, nor do I follow economics that closely. But the fact that you are criticizing the GOP economic ideas indicates that they are putting proposals forward, otherwise what are you complaining about?

Para 3 ... Blowing off steam? C'mon man. That is not far removed from the attitude of many on the right. And the more publicly and emphatically it is stated the more offensive and destructive it is. There is a reason why we are seeing people rise up in protest more and more. Blowing off steam in word and action is infuriating for the recipients. But that is dismissed as people being race baiters, thugs and " animals" and not legitimate long standing social grievances.

For fuck's sake, this is why America is so dysfunctional! Completely ignore the fact that I said:

It's not(helpful), and it's a ridiculous stance. But I think that most who have voiced it were not really serious about it, and were just letting off some steam.

It's much easier to just try to paint me as some kind of rabid conservative ala Rush Limbaugh, isn't it?


Para 4 ... The weapon of choice -- blame Obama. Ignore the fact that he received no cooperation from the GOP in those seven years and their number one goal of discrediting the president. Congress is controlled by the GOP now. Where are their plans to build and repair aging infrastructure. Poo pooing policies is not leading. They are driving now. Where are they taking us? To the gas station where big oil keeps getting bigger and richer.

The weapon of choice: Blame Congress. Remember when candidate Obama promised us that HE was the guy who could reach across the aisle and make things work? It's absolutely fair to criticize him for not being able to do so. It's not like he didn't know that Congress would be "hostile". Oh, and throw in a Big Oil reference, too, because you say "Big Oil", and EVERYONE gathers round the fire with their pitchforks.

Para 5 ... A young white middle class girl who lives on my middle class street died of a heroine overdose less than a week ago. Should we all think white people are wasting their lives because of this incident. No. People do stupid shit no matter their race and they do not represent everyone who has the same color skin.

Oh? Which heroine? Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz, or maybe Ariel from that Disney movie? The funny thing here is that YOU'RE the one showing the racist view here. The discussion was about people on welfare and their spending habits. You contended that people on welfare couldn't save money because they spent it all just trying to survive. I said that many are in that boat, but there are also many who spend it on frivolous items, like marijuana and meth. I never mentioned race at all. YOU are the one that is assuming that all welfare recipients must be black, and therefore I must have been judging all black people by the actions of the welfare recipients. Your racism disgusts me!
 

GoIrish41

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I agree that we should be pumping more money into renewable energy. But that doesn't change the fact that sending people to college without having jobs for them to assume when they graduate is just a waste of time. You simply end up with a better educated group of people receiving unemployment and other benefits.




I'm not an economist, nor do I follow economics that closely. But the fact that you are criticizing the GOP economic ideas indicates that they are putting proposals forward, otherwise what are you complaining about?



For fuck's sake, this is why America is so dysfunctional! Completely ignore the fact that I said:



It's much easier to just try to paint me as some kind of rabid conservative ala Rush Limbaugh, isn't it?




The weapon of choice: Blame Congress. Remember when candidate Obama promised us that HE was the guy who could reach across the aisle and make things work? It's absolutely fair to criticize him for not being able to do so. It's not like he didn't know that Congress would be "hostile". Oh, and throw in a Big Oil reference, too, because you say "Big Oil", and EVERYONE gathers round the fire with their pitchforks.



Oh? Which heroine? Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz, or maybe Ariel from that Disney movie? The funny thing here is that YOU'RE the one showing the racist view here. The discussion was about people on welfare and their spending habits. You contended that people on welfare couldn't save money because they spent it all just trying to survive. I said that many are in that boat, but there are also many who spend it on frivolous items, like marijuana and meth. I never mentioned race at all. YOU are the one that is assuming that all welfare recipients must be black, and therefore I must have been judging all black people by the actions of the welfare recipients. Your racism disgusts me!

Don't sweat it man. Just blowing off a little steam!
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Funny, after everyone had this guy breaking his own effin' neck in the paddy wagon, and that turned out to be clearly a bunch of idiots (at best) who had him in custody, everybody turns back to their same old tired, over-hashed ideologies.

No one is willing to move on, or see their own responsibility for the situation and discuss the affect of this kind of incident, or their own contribution to the problem with a rush to judgment has on different components of society.

Interesting that the testimony of the second prisoner was so perverted in its first iteration, wasn't it?
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Here is an article from an upwardly mobile, younger African-American man that can express himself quite well :

'Lord of the Flies' comes to Baltimore

By John Blake, CNN
Updated 11:24 PM ET, Sat May 2, 2015


Baltimore, Maryland (CNN)He was a quiet man who once stood watch on his front porch, just three blocks away from where a riot erupted in West Baltimore this week.
We called him "Mr. Shields" because no one dared use his first name. He'd step onto his porch at night in plaid shorts and black knit dress socks to watch the Baltimore Orioles play on his portable television set.

He was a steelworker, but he looked debonair: thin mustache always trimmed; wavy salt-and-pepper hair touched up with pomade; cocoa brown skin. He sat like a sentry, watching not just the games but the neighborhood as well.
I knew Mr. Shields' routine because I was his neighbor. I grew up in the West Baltimore community that was rocked this week by protests over the death of a young black man in police custody.

It's surreal to see your old neighborhood go up in flames as commentators try to explain the rage with various complex racial and legal theories. But when I returned to my home this week, the rage made sense to me. There were no more Mr. Shields -- the older black men were gone.

I asked 28-year-old Zachary Lewis about the absence of older men. He stood by a makeshift memorial placed at the spot where Freddie Gray, the man whose death ignited the riots, was arrested.

"This is old here," he said, pointing to himself. "There ain't no more 'Old Heads' anymore, where you been? They got big numbers or they in pine boxes." In street syntax, that meant long prison sentences or death.

We hear about the absence of black men from families, but what happens when they disappear from an entire community? West Baltimore delivered the answer to that question this week.

It's no accident that one of the most enduring images from the riot was a young mother spanking her son as she dragged him away from the protests. Where were the men in his life?

As I walked through my old streets, it was filled with nothing but black young women, children and teenage boys. It was as if an alien spaceship had come in the night and spirited all the older black men away.

Castaways waiting for rescue

I've read and written about big issues like the mass incarceration of black men for nonviolent drug offenses -- what some call "The New Jim Crow." To see it in person, though, is spooky. I felt like "The Lord of the Flies" had taken over my old neighborhood.
"The Lord of the Flies" was a novel written in 1954 by the English author William Golding.

It describes what happens to a group of upper-class English schoolboys when their plane crash-lands on a deserted island and all the adults are killed. The kids try to build a society of their own, but with no adult guidance, they descend into tribalism and savagery.

William Raspberry, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer for the Washington Post, once invoked the book's title in a column to describe what was happening to young black men in inner cities across America. He said that without the civilizing influence of older men to guide them, young black men never develop an internal moral compass. They become castaways. I read Raspberry's essay after college and kept it for years. It spoke so well to what I saw in the 1980s when the crack epidemic first hit my neighborhood.

I heard Raspberry's voice again this week when I talked to a 27-year-old black man named Juan Grant. He knew Gray, whose death in police custody lit the fuse in Baltimore. Grant stood no more than a foot from me, but as he talked, he yelled at me in frustration, spittle coming from his mouth. He said Gray's death had convinced him and his friends to stop "ripping and running" the streets. They wanted boys to respect them as men.

But they didn't know how to get that respect because their fathers had never been around. He described their dilemma with a bitter laugh:
"It's men learning on the job trying to teach young men how to be men."

Raspberry wrote his column 28 years ago. Now there are even more castaways like Grant in West Baltimore. Yet here's the twist: They don't just feel abandoned by indifferent white people; many feel ignored by the city's black political leaders.

Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is black, but I found nothing but disdain for her in West Baltimore. People kept complaining that she called protesters "thugs."
"She turned on her own people, calling us thugs," a 16-year-old high school student named Malik said as he waited at a bus stop next to Mondawmin Mall, a flashpoint for the riots. "Pretty sure she ain't perfect. She made some mistakes in her life. I'm pretty sure she did."

He doesn't think any of the city's leader's care about him.
"They talk about 'We the future,' but they killing us," he said.

Now this is the part of the discussion about Baltimore that some conservatives tend to love. Their refrain: It's all about individual behavior; there's a culture of poverty that Big Government programs won't help; Oh God, not Al Sharpton again; just pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

My own experiences tell me it's not all about individual effort.

What is a working man?

Choices, someone once said, are constrained by circumstances. And the circumstances that drove young black men like Grant to the streets this week are getting grimmer.
Take Mr. Shields, for example. The reason I saw so many working-class men like Mr. Shields in my neighborhood was because there were blue-collar jobs for them. Before the Inner Harbor in Baltimore became a haven for tourists, it was a haven for a burgeoning black middle class in my city.

Mr. Shields worked as a steel rigger at Sparrows Point in the inner harbor. Other black men worked at the Domino Sugar plant. My father was a merchant marine who sailed out of the harbor. These were well-paying jobs with strong unions that fought for good benefits and united black, brown and white working-class people.

They helped men like Walter Boyd, 76, who sat on his front porch in West Baltimore this week like he was a reincarnation of Mr. Shields -- an impassive Sphinx surveying his domain. He was one of the few older black men I saw around. He had a box of chicken wings attached to his walker along with ice water. Boyd had raised three children working at Domino Sugar.

"Best job I ever had," he said. "You didn't get fired. You fired yourself. As long as you came to work and worked, you had a job. It was hard work but I had it made because I knew how to work."

Boyd's son, Robert, had just stopped by to cut his father's hair. He chuckled at his father's reference to hard work. Growing up, he said, his father kept him busy to keep him out of trouble. He'd take him to the country in the summer to work in the tobacco fields. He remembers watching his father plow a field one day, sweat pouring down his face, when another man turned to him and said with admiration: "That's a working man."

"There was something about the way he said that that let me know that's the way you supposed to be if you wanted respect," said Robert Boyd, who is a truck driver and pastor of the Beacon of Truth Church and Ministries in West Baltimore.

Yet boys don't respect men who don't have jobs. And many of those blue-collar jobs that built the black middle class in Baltimore are gone. Even the neighborhood businesses that I remember from youth -- an ice cream factory and a milk company behind my house -- were shuttered when I returned.

Unlike Walter Boyd, the old men I did see in my neighborhood this week were broken-down, unshaven. I thought to myself: If you want to destroy a people, first break their men.
"Now we as men are fearful when we walk through a group of boys," Robert Boyd said. "When we were boys, when we walked through a group of men, we felt secure. Something is wrong."

Taking the city from away from us

Something else was missing when I returned: places for kids to play or meet the men who could mentor them.

Baltimore is a sports-crazy town. I grew up playing Little League baseball, running around the track at the high school across the street from my home, and playing tennis at public courts scattered through West Baltimore. There were public swimming pools, pickup basketball games, and plenty of recreation centers. On some days, I barely ate because I spent so much time outside playing sports.

Yet when I returned to my old playing fields, they were overgrown with weeds or barred with locked gates. I heard the same story from residents. The city had closed the pools, removed the basketball goals and, as recently as 2013, closed 20 recreation centers. I didn't see any kids playing baseball or football in the streets.

"They've taken the city away from us. We have nowhere to go and nothing to do," says Grant, the young man who wants to be a role model.

The sports venues weren't just for the kids; they were for adults. It's where men mentored kids by becoming their coaches. The tracks and pools were places where families gathered. The school's playing fields were open to everyone in the community.
I practically lived on the playing fields at Frederick Douglass High School, which became a focal point for the riots. When I talked to Walter Boyd and his son, I did so across the street from Douglass' track, which was ringed with locked gates.

"I used to do my walking there," Robert Boyd said, pointing to the track. "Not just I, but older cats and younger cats would just walk. That's when you saw community -- younger, older people. You see people and say, 'How you doing.' They don't want you on the track now."

The youth aren't missing just recreation centers and tracks; the jobs programs are gone as well.

When I grew up in West Baltimore in the late 1970s and early 1980s, virtually all of my friends worked. The city offered various jobs programs for youths -- Summer Corps, Youth Corps, Manpower. Some jobs were as simple as sweeping the streets, but we didn't mind. It was like a rite of passage into adulthood. You didn't have to ask your parents for money. I still remember the envy I felt when my friends took their first Summer Corps checks to Mondawmin Mall to buy new tennis shoes.

I hear people talk about welfare queens and the "culture of poverty." But most of the kids I grew up with weren't even content to join a jobs program. They hustled for other work.

One of the most coveted jobs was riding on the milk trucks during their morning deliveries. At sunrise virtually every day, a crowd of boys would gather outside the loading dock at the Cloverdale milk company. They stood around like the day laborers who hang out today around Home Depot. They wanted a milk driver to stop and say hop on. They'd help deliver the milk, and the driver would give them a couple extra bucks.

I still remember the rejection one morning when I woke up early and joined that crowd. One by one I saw all my friends picked up until I was the only one left. Nobody stopped for me. I was too skinny to pick up a milk crate. I went home and threw myself on my bed in despair. I would never be cool like my friends.

My interest in journalism also was nurtured by these jobs programs. I interned at the Baltimore Sun and Afro-American newspapers while I was in high school. I participated in journalism getaways for promising inner-city students. I couldn't afford any of it, but if you're reading this now, it's because somebody somewhere was willing to pay money to give me a chance.

Today, few of those programs exist. The Rev. Jamal Bryant, a popular Baptist minister in Baltimore, said the city has even closed a quarter of its public libraries.

"All of those programs are housed in the Smithsonian Institution," he says of the youth jobs programs. "They are no longer in evidence or thriving today."

Yet there is one institution the city seems to find money to invest in, some residents say: law enforcement. Funding for public schools, libraries, jobs programs and recreation centers may lag, but the budget for jails and police never seems to run dry, Walter Boyd and others say.

Some wonder if it's deliberate.

"If you don't invest in them now, you're just going to have to build more prisons," Boyd says about kids in West Baltimore. "And that just seems like that's what the plan is. They won't educate you. But they'll incarcerate you in a minute."

A bittersweet reunion

I ended my return by going back to the house where I grew up. I rang the doorbell, but a guy washing his car on the street told me the old woman who lived there wouldn't answer the door because she was "skittish." Bars seemed to cover every window; other homes were boarded up, and those that weren't looked so dilapidated that it seemed as if the residents didn't care anymore.

And they don't, because so few are owners now.

I ran into one person who was still there from my childhood. I knocked on his door and a big smile flashed across his face. He had not seen me since high school, but he remembered. We all called him "Herb." He was one of the few homeowners left.

We sat down on his porch and talked about old times. He said nobody sat on the porches and talked to each other anymore. Of the 38 homes on our block, only seven were owned by their occupants. When his house was recently burglarized, he said it took three calls to 911 and 55 minutes for the police to show up.

"I could be mutilated and lying on the street," he said, "and nobody would help or call the police."

I said goodbye and left. As I got in my car, I looked at him standing at his door, still smiling as he waved at me. I also looked at Mr. Shields' old porch as I drove away. The paint was peeling and the front looked disheveled. He never would have allowed that.
This was my home. This was my family. These were my friends. But they were ghosts now. There were few men looking out for the neighborhood any longer.

What's left are boys trying to figure out how to be men -- and how to avoid getting "big numbers" or ending up in "pine boxes."

'Lord of the Flies' comes to Baltimore - CNN.com
 
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GoIrish41

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Here is an article from an upwardly mobile, younger African-American man that can express himself quite well :

'Lord of the Flies' comes to Baltimore

By John Blake, CNN
Updated 11:24 PM ET, Sat May 2, 2015


Baltimore, Maryland (CNN)He was a quiet man who once stood watch on his front porch, just three blocks away from where a riot erupted in West Baltimore this week.
We called him "Mr. Shields" because no one dared use his first name. He'd step onto his porch at night in plaid shorts and black knit dress socks to watch the Baltimore Orioles play on his portable television set.

He was a steelworker, but he looked debonair: thin mustache always trimmed; wavy salt-and-pepper hair touched up with pomade; cocoa brown skin. He sat like a sentry, watching not just the games but the neighborhood as well.
I knew Mr. Shields' routine because I was his neighbor. I grew up in the West Baltimore community that was rocked this week by protests over the death of a young black man in police custody.

It's surreal to see your old neighborhood go up in flames as commentators try to explain the rage with various complex racial and legal theories. But when I returned to my home this week, the rage made sense to me. There were no more Mr. Shields -- the older black men were gone.

I asked 28-year-old Zachary Lewis about the absence of older men. He stood by a makeshift memorial placed at the spot where Freddie Gray, the man whose death ignited the riots, was arrested.

"This is old here," he said, pointing to himself. "There ain't no more 'Old Heads' anymore, where you been? They got big numbers or they in pine boxes." In street syntax, that meant long prison sentences or death.

We hear about the absence of black men from families, but what happens when they disappear from an entire community? West Baltimore delivered the answer to that question this week.

It's no accident that one of the most enduring images from the riot was a young mother spanking her son as she dragged him away from the protests. Where were the men in his life?

As I walked through my old streets, it was filled with nothing but black young women, children and teenage boys. It was as if an alien spaceship had come in the night and spirited all the older black men away.

Castaways waiting for rescue

I've read and written about big issues like the mass incarceration of black men for nonviolent drug offenses -- what some call "The New Jim Crow." To see it in person, though, is spooky. I felt like "The Lord of the Flies" had taken over my old neighborhood.
"The Lord of the Flies" was a novel written in 1954 by the English author William Golding.

It describes what happens to a group of upper-class English schoolboys when their plane crash-lands on a deserted island and all the adults are killed. The kids try to build a society of their own, but with no adult guidance, they descend into tribalism and savagery.

William Raspberry, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer for the Washington Post, once invoked the book's title in a column to describe what was happening to young black men in inner cities across America. He said that without the civilizing influence of older men to guide them, young black men never develop an internal moral compass. They become castaways. I read Raspberry's essay after college and kept it for years. It spoke so well to what I saw in the 1980s when the crack epidemic first hit my neighborhood.

I heard Raspberry's voice again this week when I talked to a 27-year-old black man named Juan Grant. He knew Gray, whose death in police custody lit the fuse in Baltimore. Grant stood no more than a foot from me, but as he talked, he yelled at me in frustration, spittle coming from his mouth. He said Gray's death had convinced him and his friends to stop "ripping and running" the streets. They wanted boys to respect them as men.

But they didn't know how to get that respect because their fathers had never been around. He described their dilemma with a bitter laugh:
"It's men learning on the job trying to teach young men how to be men."

Raspberry wrote his column 28 years ago. Now there are even more castaways like Grant in West Baltimore. Yet here's the twist: They don't just feel abandoned by indifferent white people; many feel ignored by the city's black political leaders.

Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is black, but I found nothing but disdain for her in West Baltimore. People kept complaining that she called protesters "thugs."
"She turned on her own people, calling us thugs," a 16-year-old high school student named Malik said as he waited at a bus stop next to Mondawmin Mall, a flashpoint for the riots. "Pretty sure she ain't perfect. She made some mistakes in her life. I'm pretty sure she did."

He doesn't think any of the city's leader's care about him.
"They talk about 'We the future,' but they killing us," he said.

Now this is the part of the discussion about Baltimore that some conservatives tend to love. Their refrain: It's all about individual behavior; there's a culture of poverty that Big Government programs won't help; Oh God, not Al Sharpton again; just pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

My own experiences tell me it's not all about individual effort.

What is a working man?

Choices, someone once said, are constrained by circumstances. And the circumstances that drove young black men like Grant to the streets this week are getting grimmer.
Take Mr. Shields, for example. The reason I saw so many working-class men like Mr. Shields in my neighborhood was because there were blue-collar jobs for them. Before the Inner Harbor in Baltimore became a haven for tourists, it was a haven for a burgeoning black middle class in my city.

Mr. Shields worked as a steel rigger at Sparrows Point in the inner harbor. Other black men worked at the Domino Sugar plant. My father was a merchant marine who sailed out of the harbor. These were well-paying jobs with strong unions that fought for good benefits and united black, brown and white working-class people.

They helped men like Walter Boyd, 76, who sat on his front porch in West Baltimore this week like he was a reincarnation of Mr. Shields -- an impassive Sphinx surveying his domain. He was one of the few older black men I saw around. He had a box of chicken wings attached to his walker along with ice water. Boyd had raised three children working at Domino Sugar.

"Best job I ever had," he said. "You didn't get fired. You fired yourself. As long as you came to work and worked, you had a job. It was hard work but I had it made because I knew how to work."

Boyd's son, Robert, had just stopped by to cut his father's hair. He chuckled at his father's reference to hard work. Growing up, he said, his father kept him busy to keep him out of trouble. He'd take him to the country in the summer to work in the tobacco fields. He remembers watching his father plow a field one day, sweat pouring down his face, when another man turned to him and said with admiration: "That's a working man."

"There was something about the way he said that that let me know that's the way you supposed to be if you wanted respect," said Robert Boyd, who is a truck driver and pastor of the Beacon of Truth Church and Ministries in West Baltimore.

Yet boys don't respect men who don't have jobs. And many of those blue-collar jobs that built the black middle class in Baltimore are gone. Even the neighborhood businesses that I remember from youth -- an ice cream factory and a milk company behind my house -- were shuttered when I returned.

Unlike Walter Boyd, the old men I did see in my neighborhood this week were broken-down, unshaven. I thought to myself: If you want to destroy a people, first break their men.
"Now we as men are fearful when we walk through a group of boys," Robert Boyd said. "When we were boys, when we walked through a group of men, we felt secure. Something is wrong."

Taking the city from away from us

Something else was missing when I returned: places for kids to play or meet the men who could mentor them.

Baltimore is a sports-crazy town. I grew up playing Little League baseball, running around the track at the high school across the street from my home, and playing tennis at public courts scattered through West Baltimore. There were public swimming pools, pickup basketball games, and plenty of recreation centers. On some days, I barely ate because I spent so much time outside playing sports.

Yet when I returned to my old playing fields, they were overgrown with weeds or barred with locked gates. I heard the same story from residents. The city had closed the pools, removed the basketball goals and, as recently as 2013, closed 20 recreation centers. I didn't see any kids playing baseball or football in the streets.

"They've taken the city away from us. We have nowhere to go and nothing to do," says Grant, the young man who wants to be a role model.

The sports venues weren't just for the kids; they were for adults. It's where men mentored kids by becoming their coaches. The tracks and pools were places where families gathered. The school's playing fields were open to everyone in the community.
I practically lived on the playing fields at Frederick Douglass High School, which became a focal point for the riots. When I talked to Walter Boyd and his son, I did so across the street from Douglass' track, which was ringed with locked gates.

"I used to do my walking there," Robert Boyd said, pointing to the track. "Not just I, but older cats and younger cats would just walk. That's when you saw community -- younger, older people. You see people and say, 'How you doing.' They don't want you on the track now."

The youth aren't missing just recreation centers and tracks; the jobs programs are gone as well.

When I grew up in West Baltimore in the late 1970s and early 1980s, virtually all of my friends worked. The city offered various jobs programs for youths -- Summer Corps, Youth Corps, Manpower. Some jobs were as simple as sweeping the streets, but we didn't mind. It was like a rite of passage into adulthood. You didn't have to ask your parents for money. I still remember the envy I felt when my friends took their first Summer Corps checks to Mondawmin Mall to buy new tennis shoes.

I hear people talk about welfare queens and the "culture of poverty." But most of the kids I grew up with weren't even content to join a jobs program. They hustled for other work.

One of the most coveted jobs was riding on the milk trucks during their morning deliveries. At sunrise virtually every day, a crowd of boys would gather outside the loading dock at the Cloverdale milk company. They stood around like the day laborers who hang out today around Home Depot. They wanted a milk driver to stop and say hop on. They'd help deliver the milk, and the driver would give them a couple extra bucks.

I still remember the rejection one morning when I woke up early and joined that crowd. One by one I saw all my friends picked up until I was the only one left. Nobody stopped for me. I was too skinny to pick up a milk crate. I went home and threw myself on my bed in despair. I would never be cool like my friends.

My interest in journalism also was nurtured by these jobs programs. I interned at the Baltimore Sun and Afro-American newspapers while I was in high school. I participated in journalism getaways for promising inner-city students. I couldn't afford any of it, but if you're reading this now, it's because somebody somewhere was willing to pay money to give me a chance.

Today, few of those programs exist. The Rev. Jamal Bryant, a popular Baptist minister in Baltimore, said the city has even closed a quarter of its public libraries.

"All of those programs are housed in the Smithsonian Institution," he says of the youth jobs programs. "They are no longer in evidence or thriving today."

Yet there is one institution the city seems to find money to invest in, some residents say: law enforcement. Funding for public schools, libraries, jobs programs and recreation centers may lag, but the budget for jails and police never seems to run dry, Walter Boyd and others say.

Some wonder if it's deliberate.

"If you don't invest in them now, you're just going to have to build more prisons," Boyd says about kids in West Baltimore. "And that just seems like that's what the plan is. They won't educate you. But they'll incarcerate you in a minute."

A bittersweet reunion

I ended my return by going back to the house where I grew up. I rang the doorbell, but a guy washing his car on the street told me the old woman who lived there wouldn't answer the door because she was "skittish." Bars seemed to cover every window; other homes were boarded up, and those that weren't looked so dilapidated that it seemed as if the residents didn't care anymore.

And they don't, because so few are owners now.

I ran into one person who was still there from my childhood. I knocked on his door and a big smile flashed across his face. He had not seen me since high school, but he remembered. We all called him "Herb." He was one of the few homeowners left.

We sat down on his porch and talked about old times. He said nobody sat on the porches and talked to each other anymore. Of the 38 homes on our block, only seven were owned by their occupants. When his house was recently burglarized, he said it took three calls to 911 and 55 minutes for the police to show up.

"I could be mutilated and lying on the street," he said, "and nobody would help or call the police."

I said goodbye and left. As I got in my car, I looked at him standing at his door, still smiling as he waved at me. I also looked at Mr. Shields' old porch as I drove away. The paint was peeling and the front looked disheveled. He never would have allowed that.
This was my home. This was my family. These were my friends. But they were ghosts now. There were few men looking out for the neighborhood any longer.

What's left are boys trying to figure out how to be men -- and how to avoid getting "big numbers" or ending up in "pine boxes."

'Lord of the Flies' comes to Baltimore - CNN.com

Great read. Thanks for posting Bogs.
 

IrishLax

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Bogs, that article was utterly fascinating. One of the few articles that goes beyond the "politicians have failed" and says "here is how things have changed and why" with not just one but numerous examples of public programs that have been jettisoned for other spending preferences, and the effect these choices have had.
 

johnnycando

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Bogs, I don't have the unlimited rep function active, so my reps pack a lot of punch.

I have to spread it around first.

Great read. Thanks.
 

NDRock

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Yep, great article. As someone pointed out earlier, the problems start at the family level. When men decide to have children but don's step up and raise them, communities suffer. Looking at the statistics, it's not hard to understand why many in the black community are struggling.
 

kmoose

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Was this guy not in Baltimore on Tuesday, when the dozens of middle-aged black men from the community formed a barrier between the police and protestors?

The issue of public services and facilities is pertinent, though. But what would the narrative be, if the city started cutting police officers? Then you would have people complaining that the government was doing nothing to keep the drug dealers and other various criminals from killing young black men in the inner city. It's a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. It seems like maybe some of these wealthy black "reverends" would be doing better work by creating organizations to keep these places open, and pumping money into those organizations instead of first class travel and expensive hotel suites?
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Yep, great article. As someone pointed out earlier, the problems start at the family level. When men decide to have children but don's step up and raise them, communities suffer. Looking at the statistics, it's not hard to understand why many in the black community are struggling.

I think the author would say that a disproportionate number of these men don't get to decide what they will do. Many die young, and many are incarcerated for long stretches. Many can't get jobs. And there is no place to go, or forum within the community for them to provide the kind of mentoring required.

I mean, having my dad in my life every day was great, but it was uncles, neighbors, teachers, coaches, and friends dads that reinforced societies contribution to me, and cemented my role as a contributing member.

Was this guy not in Baltimore on Tuesday, when the dozens of middle-aged black men from the community formed a barrier between the police and protestors?

The issue of public services and facilities is pertinent, though. But what would the narrative be, if the city started cutting police officers? Then you would have people complaining that the government was doing nothing to keep the drug dealers and other various criminals from killing young black men in the inner city. It's a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. It seems like maybe some of these wealthy black "reverends" would be doing better work by creating organizations to keep these places open, and pumping money into those organizations instead of first class travel and expensive hotel suites?

And what neighborhood were these middle age men from? I am pretty sure that it wasn't these poor neighborhoods described in the article I quoted. I don't think that just gets made up. And to the siphon on adult role models, success, the brain and talent drain. Good point Kmoose!
 
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kmoose

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And what neighborhood were these middle age men from? I am pretty sure that it wasn't these poor neighborhoods described in the article I quoted. I don't think that just gets made up. And to the siphon on adult role models, success, the brain and talent drain. Good point Kmoose!

According to the news reports, and the interviews with the men themselves; they were from the same neighborhood(s) as the kids that were in the streets. I think that's why they were so successful at keeping the peace and being an effective barrier.
 

Redbar

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Was this guy not in Baltimore on Tuesday, when the dozens of middle-aged black men from the community formed a barrier between the police and protestors?

The issue of public services and facilities is pertinent, though. But what would the narrative be, if the city started cutting police officers? Then you would have people complaining that the government was doing nothing to keep the drug dealers and other various criminals from killing young black men in the inner city. It's a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. It seems like maybe some of these wealthy black "reverends" would be doing better work by creating organizations to keep these places open, and pumping money into those organizations instead of first class travel and expensive hotel suites?

This is playing itself out as a race issue. It usually does at first, but it is much bigger than that and eventually we'll all see that. Lord of the Flies hit Baltimore...well it's coming to a town near you. What American city, state, whatever... is not scraping by underfunded. Money is in short supply for most jobs programs, there aren't many manufacturing jobs, public schools are failing, we are focused on all the wrong things. But how is Haliburton doing? How about Wackenhut? Lockheed? There has been a mass funneling of resources to the agents of control. And that my friends is coming to a town near you too. We can make this a black/ white or simply a black issue. But IMO this is foreshadowing. George Orwell was not an idiot. The middle class is withering and the lower class is dang near expendable. One day we will see that the target of the police state wasn't just the poor, uneducated, or minority class. Why would it be? They aren't the prize just the staging grounds for what is to come. There are people pissed that ND wouldn't turn over everything to ESPN in their witch hunt but consider Edward Snowden a traitor. While some cheer the arrival of federal troops to our cities. Welcome to our New World Order.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Yep, great article. As someone pointed out earlier, the problems start at the family level. When men decide to have children but don's step up and raise them, communities suffer. Looking at the statistics, it's not hard to understand why many in the black community are struggling.

No.
 
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