Offensive Line Thread

[Luckylucci]

Did Heistand even recruit anyone other than O-linemen?

He did early on. Had a hand in getting Will Fuller to visit. I’m pretty was the NE regional guy for awhile. Seems like as he started to have a lot of success with the OL, he did less of that.

 

[irishff1014]

Did Heistand even recruit anyone other than O-linemen?

No he didn't. But he did a very good job with the o-line.

 

[Luckylucci]

FWIW, LA posted about the Fuller recruitment in the OP of this thread.

 

[OCIrish]

.

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

What worries me more than if he is a good recruiter is if he is a good evaluator. It kind of scares me how many OL offers went out over the past few days because I just can't see how Quinn would have had any time to evaluate all those guys. For OL you probably have to bring in three or four guys every class, and to have a solid two deep you need to hit on two of those guys almost every year. Even if Quinn is only here for a year or two, if he doesn't get two contributors from those two classes, it could leave us crippled for several years.

 

[SonofOahu]

Quinn's got a lot of results in places where results aren't expected. Olin Kreutz did a good job of hyping for HH, Hopefully Quinn has that type of relationship with Staley and Kelce. We're a week and a half from (possibly) Kelce being a really big F'n deal.

Yup, Olin said that HH was the best coach he's ever had.

I think Quinn will be a fine replacement. Certainly not the sexiest hire, but if your o-line coach is a glamour-pick, you're picking the wrong guy.

 

[Luckylucci]

What worries me more than if he is a good recruiter is if he is a good evaluator. It kind of scares me how many OL offers went out over the past few days because I just can't see how Quinn would have had any time to evaluate all those guys. For OL you probably have to bring in three or four guys every class, and to have a solid two deep you need to hit on two of those guys almost every year. Even if Quinn is only here for a year or two, if he doesn't get two contributors from those two classes, it could leave us crippled for several years.

To unpack this a little bit. He’s been on staff this entire time, as an analyst. In the off-season, recruiting evals would be a huge part of what I’d want my analysts doing, especially ones that are familiar with my system. Also, we’ve simply sent out a lot offers recently to all positions in the 19’ class. Im sure that the last month has been all evaluation, all the time, and from most members of the staff. I’d be surprised if Quinn didn’t play a part in that, but also Bill Rees, Coach Long, etc. I guess I wouldn’t automatically look at the flurry of offers going out to OL and assume it was Quinn throwing shit at the wall

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

To unpack this a little bit. He’s been on staff this entire time, as an analyst. In the off-season, recruiting evals would be a huge part of what I’d want my analysts doing, especially ones that are familiar with my system. Also, we’ve simply sent out a lot offers recently to all positions in the 19’ class. Im sure that the last month has been all evaluation, all the time, and from most members of the staff. I’d be surprised if Quinn didn’t play a part in that, but also Bill Rees, Coach Long, etc. I guess I wouldn’t automatically look at the flurry of offers going out to OL and assume it was Quinn throwing shit at the wall

I guess I just thought he would try to get out to see the guys in person before offering like I think HH used to do (I could be wrong about that).

 

[BobbyMac]

So because one coach was good enough to get an NFL job, but not good enough to keep it, he is worse than the guy that never got the NFL offers in the first place? Not sure I agree with that logic.

I didn't say one was better or worse. You are. All I was asking is if it applies to Quinn, shouldn't it apply to Bostad?

Also, saying “why’d he leave for two flame outs” is wild hyperbole as he obviously didn’t leave for those reasons. He probably did so to coach at the highest profession, which is extremely common for coaches and players alike. The difference is, he was given the opportunity to do so, the other coach in the discussion never was.

I was asking why would you leave Wisconsin OL/Co-OC job at all? He actually left to go with Chryst to Pitt and then hooked up with Schiano in Tampa Bay. He may have been given the opportunity to coach at the highest level but Quinn was given the opportunity to be a HC, something that Bostad's never achieved and my guess is Quinn made more money at $375k+ per, though granted, it's a lot more work and responsibility.

 

[Grahambo]

There’s an assumption going around that Quinn hasn’t been approached about other jobs the past few years. Is there proof he hasn’t been approached?

A plausible scenario which is purely a guess on my part, BK hires Quinn a few years back to get him in the program but no position is open. The thought is HH is going back to the NFL so Quinn is holding out. HH doesn’t bolt to the NFL when he was expected to. I believe II had mentioned he almost did last year. HH comes back so Quinn is in wait and see mode.

Maybe BK is tired of going outside the box for coaches who will end up leaving unexpectedly. Maybe the goal was a Justin Frye but Elko leaving left a sour taste in BK’s mouth. There’s many “What If” scenario’s we could play here.

It’s not as if Quinn has a poor track record. Maybe he does well, maybe he doesn’t. Time will only tell. Fact is I don’t know the true reasons BK chose him and not others and neither does Pete Sampson.

 

[Irish#1]

You think his resume is better than that of Bob Bostad's?

I guess Quinn has certainly had a lot of success at lower levels of football but he's literally never coached at the P5 level or higher, ever. I'm not sure how that compares to a guy that coached OL at Wiscy for 4 seasons, before going to the NFL for 4 seasons. That's 8 seasons of experience at levels of football that Quinn hasn't.

Let's put it this way.....what top 15 team do you think would be happy to hire Quinn? His resume is one that Purdue might like, maybe even NC State. But there is no way Mark dantonio was banging on his door, nor Franklin or Richt. And forget about Peterson, Dabo, Urban or Jumbo. I'm sure Brown in Ann Arbor is digging up old tape as we speak to calm his nerves for september.

That was my first question, too. If he's that strong of a coach, why didn't someone scoop him up?

All we do know is that he's tight with BK and obviously likes being at ND. What we don't know is who has come knocking for him in the past few years.

If you look into this, this doesn't appear to be a bad hire. You don't forget what you learned simply because you weren't a OL coach for the last three years. You think he's not watching practice or talking to the other coaches? OL technique is technique and there really isn't much difference from one coach to the next. Every coach has one or two things that may be slightly different, but the thing you need to focus on, is his attention to detail, evaluate talent and the ability to motivate. That's where the separation is with coaches.

Stats are a waste of time to approve or disapprove the guy. Was he coaching the same talent level at his previous stops?

Why didn't anyone scoop him up? Maybe he likes being at ND. Coaching is a nomad type sport, but I'm willing to bet that many have had multiple stops on their resume because the HC was let go and the new HC brought in his own staff. You think the wife wants to move every 3-5 years?

 

[Irish#1]

There’s an assumption going around that Quinn hasn’t been approached about other jobs the past few years. Is there proof he hasn’t been approached?

A plausible scenario which is purely a guess on my part, BK hires Quinn a few years back to get him in the program but no position is open. The thought is HH is going back to the NFL so Quinn is holding out. HH doesn’t bolt to the NFL when he was expected to. I believe II had mentioned he almost did last year. HH comes back so Quinn is in wait and see mode.

Maybe BK is tired of going outside the box for coaches who will end up leaving unexpectedly. Maybe the goal was a Justin Frye but Elko leaving left a sour taste in BK’s mouth. There’s many “What If” scenario’s we could play here.

It’s not as if Quinn has a poor track record. Maybe he does well, maybe he doesn’t. Time will only tell. Fact is I don’t know the true reasons BK chose him and not others and neither does Pete Sampson.

Well stated.

 

[dublinirish]

my first thought when i saw the news was that BK was tired of seeing up and coming coach types (Elko) leave and wanted to go back to his own coaching tree to get a guy who was guaranteed to be loyal and hang around

 

[stlnd01]

my first thought when i saw the news was that BK was tired of seeing up and coming coach types (Elko) leave and wanted to go back to his own coaching tree to get a guy who was guaranteed to be loyal and hang around

There are no guarantees in coaching. If someone offers Quinn a P5 OC job next year, he should maybe take it.

That's why I'm not so sure if this was so much about loyalty as about continuity. Same as Lea. Kelly probably could have gotten a "better" OL coach, but that would come with blowing up the system. A shift in philosophy and recruiting systems and all that. Again. He chose continuity on the defense (which we all supported), and appears to have made the same choice with the OL. (also if you hire a new OL coach from outside, presumably you put a lot of that decision in the hands of Long, and maybe we don't trust him all that much yet?)

Things seem to be moving in a good direction and I can see the argument for promoting a guy who has been a part of that, as opposed to bringing in someone completely different. And it's not like Quinn isn't qualified.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Good points. Two more things:

1) not sure if this is “premium,” but a guy at ISD who played for Quinn had really good things to say. He said that he’s more of a pure OL guy than a head coach, and ended by emphasizing that all Quinn’s former players would run through a wall for him. I thought it’s worth sharing to temper the baseless hysteria.

2) when Kelly “passed over” Quinn, it was at a time when he, the QB coach, and Denbrock, all wanted to be the lead guy for the offense, and veteran HH was there too. So hiring Quinn would have not made a lot of sense. Now Kelly has handed the keys to a young coach, who is surrounded by a less experienced group. Long also showed a desire to work with a veteran oline coach.

 

[NDMIA]

Btw, Jeff Quinn started a twitter and its fascinating to see where he's putting his follows for the 2018 class and 2019 class.

2018
Nicholas Petit-Frere
Jarrett Patterson

 

[ab2cmiller]

Btw, Jeff Quinn started a twitter and its fascinating to see where he's putting his follows for the 2018 class and 2019 class.

2018
Nicholas Petit-Frere
Jarrett Patterson

Who woulda thunk

 

[NDMIA]

2019
.8900 3* Karsen Barnhart - MI - 1h15m - No Offer
.8839 3* Bryce Benhart - MN - FAR - OFFER
.9032 4* Tanner Bowles - KY - 5h30m - No Offer - 10/21/17
.9727 4* Quinn Carroll - MN - 7h50m - OFFER - 4/2/17 & 10/21/17
.8778 3* Carter Colquitt - GA - FAR - No Offer
.9057 4* Zeke Correll - OH - 4h30m - OFFER - 10/28/17 & 1/27/18
.9949 4* Devontae Dobbs - MI - 3h - No Offer - 6/24/16 & 11/19/16 & 2/20/17
.8400 3* JJ Guedet - IL - 3h50m - No Offer
.9616 4* Tyler Johnson - TX - FAR - OFFER - 11/19/16
.8728 3* Andrew Kristofic - PA - 5h35m - OFFER - 1/27/18
.9193 4* Jackson Lampley - TN - 6h45m - No Offer
.8556 3* Barrett Miller - CO - FAR - No Offer
.9455 4* Harry Miller - GA - FAR - OFFER
.9329 4* John Olmstead - NJ - FAR - OFFER - 6/23/17 & 11/18/17
NR 3* Conrad Rowley - MO - FAR - No Offer
.9384 4* Michael Tarquin - FL - FAR - No Offer
.9000 3* Joe Tippmann - IN - 1h50m - No Offer - 11/18/17
.9000 3* Xavier Truss - RI - FAR - No Offer
NR 3* Ethan White - FL - FAR - No Offer
.9827 4* Darnell Wright - WV - 6h40m - No Offer

Pretty interesting list of players there for 2019

 

[NDMIA]

Probably shoulda wrote part 1 for 2018's cause that's not fascinating or surprising at all, lol

 

[dublinirish]

never met an OL coach who wasn't liked by his former players

 

[GowerND11]

I'm good with this hire. Knows the system, knows Kelly, knows the players. It was pretty obvious when Kelly brought him in as an analyst that he would slide into a position once it opened up.

He has done well with much less talent, I'll decide how I feel about the hire after next year. To those asking why he hasn't been out talking to some of these OL recruits... Well he couldn't because he wasn't a coach yet.

Those upset that he has been out of coaching for so many years... Yes and no. He's been around football, watching tape, helping gameplan, helping identify recruits, scouting, evaluating, etc. He's been around the job/sport.

This isn't a sexy hire, this isn't a homerun. That doesn't mean it's a bad hire. I'm good with it.

 

[koonja]

I feel like I'd have a better idea of what his "analyst" position actually did.

Like did he study other teams? Did he study just Navy? Did he study our film, but just look at offense? Defense? Special Teams?

Did he just scout players who he thought could play WR/DB/OL/QB here? What did he do?

 

[ab2cmiller]

I'm good with this hire. Knows the system, knows Kelly, knows the players. It was pretty obvious when Kelly brought him in as an analyst that he would slide into a position once it opened up.

He has done well with much less talent, I'll decide how I feel about the hire after next year. To those asking why he hasn't been out talking to some of these OL recruits... Well he couldn't because he wasn't a coach yet.

Those upset that he has been out of coaching for so many years... Yes and no. He's been around football, watching tape, helping gameplan, helping identify recruits, scouting, evaluating, etc. He's been around the job/sport.

This isn't a sexy hire, this isn't a homerun. That doesn't mean it's a bad hire. I'm good with it.

I'm guessing most of IE will do the same. The unfortunate thing is that the OL will most certainly take a step back next year because of losing Nelson and McGlinchy. I can almost hear the screams to fire Quinn already.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I'm guessing most of IE will do the same. The unfortunate thing is that the OL will most certainly take a step back next year because of losing Nelson and McGlinchy. I can almost hear the screams to fire Quinn already.

This is SO true. Last year's line was excellent, and we would have expected a step back even with HH.

I love HH, and he was a great coach, but Zach Martin, Ronnie Stanley, Big Mike, Nick Martin, Chris Watt, are a lot to inherit!

 

[GowerND11]

I'm guessing most of IE will do the same. The unfortunate thing is that the OL will most certainly take a step back next year because of losing Nelson and McGlinchy. I can almost hear the screams to fire Quinn already.

And that's definitely a problem we'll have to deal with. Is the regression simply because we lost two 1st rounders plus HH, or is it that JQ is also not good either? Hard to quantify it.

However, talent is still there, we fall (which we probably will) into the top 30-35 I think that's still a very good OL, just not a totally dominant one.

 

[dublinirish]

The Scoop - Wednesday January 24, 2018 - FootballScoop

Pitt: Sources tell FootballScoop that offensive line coach John Peterson will not return. Peterson recently wrapped up his third season coaching the offensive line at Pitt. Prior to joining Pat Narduzzi’s staff, Peterson was the assistant head coach and offensive line coach at Akron, and also spent eight seasons at Ohio State.

 

[stlnd01]

The Scoop - Wednesday January 24, 2018 - FootballScoop

That’s odd. Is he leaving for another job? Must be, right? Kind of a weird time in the cycle to just dump your O Line coach.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wanna hear him from an expert who played offensive line for new <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NotreDame</a> OL coach Jeff Quinn? Here ya go (FREE) <a href="https://t.co/xpGAokw43J">https://t.co/xpGAokw43J</a></p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/956205114892615680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 24, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Luckylucci]

Good points. Two more things:

1) not sure if this is “premium,” but a guy at ISD who played for Quinn had really good things to say. He said that he’s more of a pure OL guy than a head coach, and ended by emphasizing that all Quinn’s former players would run through a wall for him. I thought it’s worth sharing to temper the baseless hysteria.

2) when Kelly “passed over” Quinn, it was at a time when he, the QB coach, and Denbrock, all wanted to be the lead guy for the offense, and veteran HH was there too. So hiring Quinn would have not made a lot of sense. Now Kelly has handed the keys to a young coach, who is surrounded by a less experienced group. Long also showed a desire to work with a veteran oline coach.

1. I enjoyed that read, and made me feel better about the hire.

I never thought it was a bad hire, I just thought we could've done better. Still do, but I think Mele hit a few key points that I made me more optimistic.

 

[dublinirish]

1. I enjoyed that read, and made me feel better about the hire.

I never thought it was a bad hire, I just thought we could've done better. Still do, but I think Mele hit a few key points that I made me more optimistic.

meh but former players always talk well of their coaches, it would be very shocking if they didn't blow smoke up his butt