Nov 9 | Pittsburgh

[ulukinatme]

You missed the point. No rationalization. Seems every loss is on Tommy, I'm just here letting everyone know that bullshit

This. When we've lost this year, nobody wants to look at the other mistakes that are going on. Those 40 points we gave up to Michigan? All on Tommy. Give me a break. This team isn't great right now, and it's not all the QBs fault. If you're going to point the finger at anyone, point it at Golson. Tommy is doing what he can and is doing things the right way, even if he's making mistakes.

 

[palinurus]

I don't have a problem with any of these. I didn't think the OL was getting a good enough push and I thought Pittsburgh's DBs were weak. I'd have aired it out even more.



Now this I just think is wrong.



Ehh perhaps.

See, my theory is that passing-prominent game plans led inconsistent quarterbacks are exercises in bad judgment, since they give weaker teams more opportunity for big plays, esp. when the safer option of running the ball against smaller, weaker opponents is left untried or, worse yet, abandoned even when successful.

Simply put, Rees should not be the centerpiece of the ND offense; he's just too inconsistent. Game plans that do it are a mistake. I say this recognizing that Rees is more than capable to win and do pretty darn well if we keep it conservative, with an occasional air out to keep opponents honest.

 

[ACamp1900]

How many INTs has Tommy thrown in ND losses this year?? How many otherwise?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

How many INTs has Tommy thrown in ND losses this year?? How many otherwise?

I think it's 7 in losses and 2 in wins...or something like that.

 

[ACamp1900]

I think it's 7 in losses and 2 in wins...or something like that.

.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

How many of those ints are just stupidly bad throws? A ton. Year in and year out. His ints are just so horrible.

 

[ACamp1900]

How many of those ints are just stupidly bad throws? A ton. Year in and year out. His ints are just so horrible.

.

.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

How many of those ints are just stupidly bad throws? A ton. Year in and year out. His ints are just so horrible.

Still not sure why the staff keeps rolling him out...

 

[irisheyes]

At the beginning of the season I can see a melt down like this, but we are 10 games in. If you didn't know we were bad you are either lying to yourself or aren't watching the games. This loss rests entirely on the coaching staffs shoulders. Tommy is out there giving his all. Even though he is constantly trash talked and boo'd by people who call themselves fans. Kelly chose to keep malik out. Tommy is the best we are going to get. He can't magically become Peyton Manning. We as fans need to stand behind the players.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

I know Andrew didn't perform in his extremely small sample size this year, but he must be really bad in practice to be on the bench. As Max too. They must be really bad in practice.

 

[palinurus]

How many of those ints are just stupidly bad throws? A ton. Year in and year out. His ints are just so horrible.

yeah, that's what's particularly frustrating: some of the key INTs are just so beneath him -- bad judgment, much more than lack of physical skill, though sometimes the two marry.

His first INT vs. Navy last week was an example: the WR was never open. He was covered like glue. Rees just went back, looked at him all the way, and threw it, hoping he would get bailed out by the WR. He overthrew and it was picked off. (I was at the game and so was able to see what I might not have seen on TV.) The floater in the end zone tonight was another: across his body, floated, late, in the middle of the field. Four mistakes on one pass. He should know much better.

Rees has elements that both sides forget: he can play quite well when he plays conservatively and within himself; he had some really nice passes tonight even. But he has been spoiled by having Floyd, Eisert, and now Jones and others; they make some really fine catches that he would be hard-put to take credit for. So he has a tendency at times to just throw it and hope.

I feel bad for him, because he's a good kid and good teammate. You could see how upset he was tonight. He knows that, talent aside, he just needs to use better judgment. The judgement errors are the ones you kick yourself over, in life or football.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

At the beginning of the season I can see a melt down like this, but we are 10 games in. If you didn't know we were bad you are either lying to yourself or aren't watching the games. This loss rests entirely on the coaching staffs shoulders. Tommy is out there giving his all. Even though he is constantly trash talked and boo'd by people who call themselves fans. Kelly chose to keep malik out. Tommy is the best we are going to get. He can't magically become Peyton Manning. We as fans need to stand behind the players.

I don't understand how you can blame this loss on the coaching staff.

 

[irisheyes]

I don't understand how you can blame this loss on the coaching staff.

Record field goal attempt, Folston with limited carries, malik not getting his shot, extremely predictable play calling, absolutely terrible special teams, and the list goes on.

 

[IrishFan4L]

3rd Down Conversion Pct | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com
Notre Dames 3rd down conversion ranking 59th red zone rank is a 100 not a good recipe for winning.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Record field goal attempt, Folston with limited carries, malik not getting his shot, extremely predictable play calling, absolutely terrible special teams, and the list goes on.

 

[irisheyes]

I'm not saying this game only. I'm saying the whole season. It's pointless to burn a red shirt at this point.

 

[anarin]

I'm not saying this game only. I'm saying the whole season. It's pointless to burn a red shirt at this point.

So you blame the season on malik not getting PT?

 

[ulukinatme]

At the beginning of the season I can see a melt down like this, but we are 10 games in. If you didn't know we were bad you are either lying to yourself or aren't watching the games. This loss rests entirely on the coaching staffs shoulders. Tommy is out there giving his all. Even though he is constantly trash talked and boo'd by people who call themselves fans. Kelly chose to keep malik out. Tommy is the best we are going to get. He can't magically become Peyton Manning. We as fans need to stand behind the players.

I agree with you for the most part. The play calling hasn't been great at times, and I think they've put Tommy in some poor positions at times based on what his strengths and weaknesses are. Yeah, Tommy could perform better, but we know he has limitations and at times we've had to put the game on his shoulders because the defense has broken down, or special teams has goofed, or our running game didn't get going (Which should have been our focus this year with Tommy throwing off Play Action, not 5 wide sets). You have to support Tommy though, no question. He's the best we've got right now, and he's only in this year because Golson screwed up, Kiel didn't want to compete, and Hendrix is struggling. On paper any one of those guys should be starting in front of Tommy right now, but the fact is Tommy is the one that stepped up this season.

I know Andrew didn't perform in his extremely small sample size this year, but he must be really bad in practice to be on the bench. As Max too. They must be really bad in practice.

Have you watched Hendrix in the Temple, USC, and Air Force games? He did have one big pass at Air Force, but Air Force was probably the worst team we've played all season. Outside of that big pass, Andrew has really struggled in the games he's been in. He's supposed to be a mobile QB, but he struggles with making reads on Read Option, so why would we run the ball with him? His accuracy is not as good as Tommy's either.

 

[BGIF]

Record field goal attempt, Folston with limited carries, malik not getting his shot, extremely predictable play calling, absolutely terrible special teams, and the list goes on.

What shot? Do you actually follow the team or just drop in to snipe?

Malik started the season with mononucleosis. That's not a runny noise. He wasn't able to practice, much less play, for a long time. He missed out on lifting and conditioning leaving his stamina probably closer to yours or mine than a Div 1 athlete.

When a player is out for an extended period the NCAA MANDATES that the player has to go through specified conditioning like Spring or Preseason practice before going to contact drills with the team. He has to start out in shells and work his way gradually up to contact.

As I recall Malik didn't come from a spread offense background. So he had a lot of mental work to do. And unfortunately watching film doesn't prepare you for the realtime speed fo Div 1 play. If you recall the talented Golson spent a full year on the scout team developing into a Div 1 QB. Hendrix still struggles with it and keep in mind Malik couldn't beat out Hendrix for the #2 slot.

 

[irisheyes]

So you blame the season on malik not getting PT?

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. I blame a kid who hasn't played a down of nd football for not forcing kelly to put him in. Try twisting what I'm saying a little more while you're at it

 

[BGIF]

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. I blame a kid who hasn't played a down of nd football for not forcing kelly to put him in. Try twisting what I'm saying a little more while you're at it

So it's Kelly's fault Malik got mono. Now I understand.

 

[anarin]

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. I blame a kid who hasn't played a down of nd football for not forcing kelly to put him in. Try twisting what I'm saying a little more while you're at it

your words not mine chief

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Uluke, yes he was bad in those games. But, I think he lives by different rules than Tommy. If he makes a mistake he gets drilled and pulled. And Tommy gets to make mistake, mistake, mistake and nothing happens.

Andrew does, and Bam he gets destroyed. Maybe, he is a lot more stressed because he is tense because of BK.

Just a thought, but he is given the largest rope of all the ND Qb's during BK's Time here.

Even though Tommy has averaged under 200 yards per game and 2 Turnovers per TD against good teams. But, is given the benefit of the doubt. I am sure that effects Andrew.

Everett caused this problem, but I expected Tommy not to continue the same mistakes he did as a freshman. But, he has. That is flat out on Tommy. But, here we are.

 

[ulukinatme]

Uluke, yes he was bad in those games. But, I think he lives by different rules than Tommy. If he makes a mistake he gets drilled and pulled. And Tommy gets to make mistake, mistake, mistake and nothing happens.

Andrew does, and Bam he gets destroyed. Maybe, he is a lot more stressed because he is tense because of BK.

Just a thought, but he is given the largest rope of all the ND Qb's during BK's Time here.

Even though Tommy has averaged under 200 yards per game and 2 Turnovers per TD against good teams. But, is given the benefit of the doubt. I am sure that effects Andrew.

Everett caused this problem, but I expected Tommy not to continue the same mistakes he did as a freshman. But, he has. That is flat out on Tommy. But, here we are.

Tommy doesn't get drilled by BK when he screws up? When has Hendrix shown that he's been a better option in the 3 years he's had opportunities to play? Maybe half a game against Stanford in 2011? I'm not even sure you can say he was better in that game. If Hendrix was the better option, why isn't he out on the field right now? He's #2 for a reason. I can't believe people are still trying to start Hendrix over Tommy 10 games into the season.

 

[irisheyes]

So it's Kelly's fault Malik got mono. Now I understand.

You picked out just one of my examples. Malik was rid of mono I believe week 3?
he's an athlete, sometimes you have to learn to adapt and become quick learners. He wouldn't be the first true freshman to come into a football game

your words not mine chief

Those are not my words I never said malik was to blame. I said it was the coaching staff for not giving him a shot. And I didn't say that was the only reason. I didn't also didn't say it would be a fix, but you never know until you try.

 

[ulukinatme]

It probably wouldn't have hurt to get Malik some touches earlier in this season once he was healthy, especially in the unlikely event that Golson doesn't come back next season. I would have moved him up to #2 after the Oklahoma game, or at least the USC game since we were still playing for a possible BCS game at that point. Now it would be too late to burn the redshirt. I think when it comes down to winning, or preserving a redshirt, I think you have to go with whatever gives you the best chance to win. Theres no guarantee a player stays all 4 years, and from what it looks like Kelly is making the right moves for us at QB recruiting for the future.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

I understand that, but honestly Andrew hasn't been given much game time action. Where Tommy got a lot. I can understand both sides. But, I also understand how many times Tommy has folded against good teams. And now he has done it against a team that isn't very good.

Then again, any QB could have thrown two ints in the endzone against FSU in the bowl game. And that happens a lot with Tommy. We have 3 more games of Tommy and I for one can't wait until he no longer has any years of eligibility left. I'd rather go with a freshman in Malik that is mobile or EG. I am just 100% done with Tommy now. After today's debacle, I absolutely can't wait till is a former Irish QB. Nice kid, makes stupid decisions. And who can forget his kung fu kick of the cop, that caused him to be suspended for Dublin.

It is a mute point talking about Andrew really, we have Tommy for the final 3 games. And can't imagine how Stanford will just destroy him. The back foot throwing will be on full display. And zero mobility to get away form Murphy and the crew.

Oh well, Tommy Turnover is what we have. And BK is sticking with him.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Uluk, good points. Look at our Track record With QB's is they don't stay for all of their years of eligibility.

Jimmy, Dayne, Gunner, Everett, Zach Frazier, Nate Montana, all won't/didn't spend all years of eligibility.

Heck, you can even go back to Demetries Jones, Matt Lovecchio.

They all left or transferred for different reasons. But, left none the less. So, getting some guys playing time early may help. Most won't stay for all of their years of eligibility.

 

[BGIF]

3rd Down Conversion Pct | FBS Football Statistics - NCAA.com
Notre Dames 3rd down conversion ranking 59th red zone rank is a 100 not a good recipe for winning.

Yep not great. Only about average. Four places behind Clemson, #6 in the BCS. Aren't they in line for a BCS game? Seventeen slots better than OK St, #12 in the BCS.

And ND's doing that with a "mediocre QB" so I've read here along with an ineffective running game which we never use, and inept play calling, and ... ND hasn't played a single Div II team to fatten their winning percentage and stats.

Hmm, all that and ND is in the top half of it's division stats, actually amazing!


Actually if ND had made only 4 more out of 118 tries ND would be tied with 8-1 Auburn for #31. IF we had played Arkansas St, Florida Atlantic, and Div II Western Carolina like Auburn did, ND would be in the Top 20.

Stats with small samples like 3rd down conversions, punt returns, and Red Zone Conversions tend to be compressed into a small range so movement can change up or down significantly by the strength of opponents. ND needs improvement in all of them.

Converting 42% of your 3rd downs isn't bad particularly when you breaking off chunks of yardage. ND's 80 yard TD would only have counted for one conversion if it was on 3rd down.

Lou Holtz wasn't making 50% 3rd downs when he won a National Championship but he was preventing others from doing so better than we are today.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Good points.