Not Sure I Buy the Narratives

[philipm31]

Gotta get the thoroughbreds around him.

Devonta Smith was in the same signing class of 2017 as Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs III. He might win the Heisman. That's an embarrassment of riches, if we're being honest with ourselves, and we have not seen that level of talent at Notre Dame since Holtz and Cerrato.

True but back then you could also have over 100 athletes on a team.

 

[Rogue219]

True but back then you could also have over 100 athletes on a team.

For now, just give me as close to 85 as you can get to. That seems to be how Bama/Dabo/Bucky is stacking their roster.

 

[Rogue219]

This is why the narrative exists. This is why we don't get the benefit of the doubt.

Notre Dame in BCS/NY6/CFP games last 25 years ...

'01 Fiesta: L 41-9 to Oregon State.
'06 Fiesta: L 34-20 to Ohio State.
'07 Sugar: L 41-14 to LSU.
'13 BCS title game: L 42-14 to Bama.
'16 Fiesta: L 44-28 to Ohio State.
'18 CFP: L 30-3 to Clemson.

Yeah. What sucks about this is that it matters to two groups of people: the pundits and the fanbase. I doubt Saban gives a shit about this, and in reality Brian Kelly had nothing to do with the first three games on that list. In 2001 the current roster were toddlers.

It's painful that the last time ND won a major bowl game it was January 1994 and I was a few months from getting my driver's license. That's a long ass time ago. None of us are getting any younger.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

It boils down to talent and depth to even lessen your points.

The defence was bad in that game for whatever reason. Blame Lea or whoever. Our play makers from the first game vanished and they played in their heels after the first quarter the rest of the night. The score could have been so much worse, I fully believe Dabo backed off in order to rescue the 2 ACC team playoff dream.

On offence, we'll I don't blame Book as much as the oline. The oline was terrible. He was running for his life all night.
But again the narrative isn't "Well NDs oline wasn't full strength etc..." It is ND can't play on the same level.

I fully believe that outside of Meyer coming here that Kelly is the best man for this job right now. Consistency at the coordinators postion would help as well. Hard to be a consistent team when you are interviewing new coordinators every 3rd year..

Ian needs to throw the ball

Tell that to Bama, Clemson, Ohio State

 

[philipm31]

That's all that needs to be said.

That just proves my point that CFB is cyclical. ND was something like 5-1 0r 4-2 in bowl games before 2001.

This so-called narrative exists because of social media. I mean seriously, Michigan has 1.5 National Titles in 75 years.... but there is no narrative about them being a crap program, when objectively speaking, they are the most overrated crap program in the existence of College Football

Clemson never once competed for a national title, much less a conference title for, at least 30 years. Hell, they created a verb called "CLEMSONING" which meant to choke a way a win in a decidedly Clemson style or self-implosion, for at least 25+ years

OSU did not win a national title for over 30 years before Tressel and then it was another 12 before they won one under Meyer. So in the last 55 years, OSU has won fewer National Titles than ND. Yet nobody talks about that do they?

Bama had one in the previous 20 years before Saban arrived, in 1992. Then it was another 17 years before they won a title.

Florida had one (1996) in the previous fifty years, I believe, before Meyer arrived. And NONE since he has left, which was 12 years ago?

For all the love that FSU gets, you know how many national titles they have in the last 30 years? 3. Literally zero before 1993, which was was six or seven decades of futility?

This is why I do not buy the narrative that ND is no longer relevant or cannot compete, blah blah blah.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

That just proves my point that CFB is cyclical. ND was something like 5-1 0r 4-2 in bowl games before 2001.

This so-called narrative exists because of social media. I mean seriously, Michigan has 1.5 National Titles in 75 years.... but there is no narrative about them being a crap program, when objectively speaking, they are the most overrated crap program in the existence of College Football

Clemson never once competed for a national title, much less a conference title for, at least 30 years. Hell, they used to have a verb called "CLEMSONING" which meant to choke a way a win, for at least 25+ years

OSU did not win a national title for over 30 years before Tressel and then it was another 12 before they won one under Meyer. So in the last 55 years, OSU has won fewer National Titles than ND. Yet nobody talks about that do they?

Bama had one in the previous 20 years before Saban arrived, in 1992. Then it was another 17 years before they won a title.

Florida had one (1996) in the previous fifty years, I believe, before Meyer arrived. And NONE since he has left, which was 12 years ago?

For all the love that FSU gets, you know how many national titles they have in the last 30 years? 3. Literally zero before 1993, which was was six or seven decades of futility?

This is why I do not buy the narrative that ND is no longer relevant or cannot compete, blah blah blah.

HEY, I just met you, and this is crazy... But this post is Top 3 ever maybe!

 

[irishtrooper]

That just proves my point that CFB is cyclical. ND was something like 5-1 0r 4-2 in bowl games before 2001.

This so-called narrative exists because of social media. I mean seriously, Michigan has 1.5 National Titles in 75 years.... but there is no narrative about them being a crap program, when objectively speaking, they are the most overrated crap program in the existence of College Football

Clemson never once competed for a national title, much less a conference title for, at least 30 years. Hell, they used to have a verb called "CLEMSONING" which meant to choke a way a win, for at least 25+ years

OSU did not win a national title for over 30 years before Tressel and then it was another 12 before they won one under Meyer. So in the last 55 years, OSU has won fewer National Titles than ND. Yet nobody talks about that do they?

Bama had one in the previous 20 years before Saban arrived, in 1992. Then it was another 17 years before they won a title.

Florida had one (1996) in the previous fifty years, I believe, before Meyer arrived. And NONE since he has left, which was 12 years ago?

For all the love that FSU gets, you know how many national titles they have in the last 30 years? 3. Literally zero before 1993, which was was six or seven decades of futility?

This is why I do not buy the narrative that ND is no longer relevant or cannot compete, blah blah blah.

HOW DARE YOU BRING FACTS INTO THIS DISCUSSION! This isn’t the place for facts. We’re supposed to believe it will never be better than this and that we should assume at this point that Bama and Clemson will not return to lean times ever. The fact is, even when we were mired in mediocrity for years, we were still relevant. That’s why ND is so polarizing. That’s why PSU, Michigan and others are so jealous. Not even Bama has the full, rich history and pull of ND. Once Saban leaves and they settle back to where they belong, not many people outside of their geographical area will even care about them. This never happens to ND, even when they’re down they still move the needle nationally. I recall everyone being certain that it would never end for Southern Cal with all of their advantages, but guess what? They’re an afterthought most years for a while now.......... I’m rambling, but I think my point has been made. I am enjoying this resurgence in ND football and hopefully it’s going to be near the top for a while.

 

[GATTACA!]

My conclusion from reading this thread (and general online comments):

Sounds like people are starting to realize "RTDB" isn't going to cut it against the big dogs. You have to have a vertical passing game. And ideally, a vertical passing game with a mobile QB.

Tyler Buchner fits the mold. We shall see.

Buchner does, but it won't be next year. Anyone thinking Kelly of all coaches is going to turn the keys over to a true frosh that hasn't played competitive football in over a year is crazy.

So unless we want to see ourselves fall into 2+ years of Drew Pyne when he predictably becomes Kelly's "guy", we need to start hitting that transfer portal yesterday.

 

[Jo Jo the Dog Faced Boy]

That just proves my point that CFB is cyclical. ND was something like 5-1 0r 4-2 in bowl games before 2001.

This so-called narrative exists because of social media. I mean seriously, Michigan has 1.5 National Titles in 75 years.... but there is no narrative about them being a crap program, when objectively speaking, they are the most overrated crap program in the existence of College Football

Clemson never once competed for a national title, much less a conference title for, at least 30 years. Hell, they created a verb called "CLEMSONING" which meant to choke a way a win in a decidedly Clemson style or self-implosion, for at least 25+ years

OSU did not win a national title for over 30 years before Tressel and then it was another 12 before they won one under Meyer. So in the last 55 years, OSU has won fewer National Titles than ND. Yet nobody talks about that do they?

Bama had one in the previous 20 years before Saban arrived, in 1992. Then it was another 17 years before they won a title.

Florida had one (1996) in the previous fifty years, I believe, before Meyer arrived. And NONE since he has left, which was 12 years ago?

For all the love that FSU gets, you know how many national titles they have in the last 30 years? 3. Literally zero before 1993, which was was six or seven decades of futility?

This is why I do not buy the narrative that ND is no longer relevant or cannot compete, blah blah blah.

And what do all these programs have in common when they finally started winning titles? A great head coach.

Michigan never had one never will. Urban Meyer did it twice at uf and Ohio. And what is the one common thread we had in all of our big game bed-shittings? Maybe ND is just a great head coach away?

 

[ThePiombino]

Buchner does, but it won't be next year. Anyone thinking Kelly of all coaches is going to turn the keys over to a true frosh that hasn't played competitive football in over a year is crazy.

So unless we want to see ourselves fall into 2+ years of Drew Pyne when he predictably becomes Kelly's "guy", we need to start hitting that transfer portal yesterday.

My hope of all hopes is that TB shows up to spring and fall camp and takes the fucking keys.

 

[ThePiombino]

And what do all these programs have in common when they finally started winning titles? A great head coach.

Michigan never had one never will. Urban Meyer did it twice at uf and Ohio. And what is the one common thread we had in all of our big game bed-shittings? Maybe ND is just a great head coach away?

We have a great coach. What we don't have is school and program willing to skirt (being kind here) the rules and/or throw academics out the window.

 

[NDRock]

And what do all these programs have in common when they finally started winning titles? A great head coach.

Michigan never had one never will. Urban Meyer did it twice at uf and Ohio. And what is the one common thread we had in all of our big game bed-shittings? Maybe ND is just a great head coach away?

I’d say to win multiple titles you need a great coach. I have no doubt that Kelly is as good as Les Miles, Mack Brown, Gene Chizick, Jimbo, Ed Orgeron, all of whom have won in the last 15 years. What those guys had were great QBs. Three #1 overall picks and Vince Young who went 3rd overall. The only one who didn’t was Miles and that team is the only champion with 2 losses that I can remember. Had quite a bit of luck that year I recall.

 

[Jo Jo the Dog Faced Boy]

We have a great coach. What we don't have is school and program willing to skirt (being kind here) the rules and/or throw academics out the window.

That’s bullshit. It’s coaching. Always has been always will be. Stop making excuses for him.

After every big game blowout we blame recruiting, coordinators, the gug, academics, whatever, the one thing that has been present for everyone of them is Kelly. Bama 2012, Ohio state, clemson 15 18 20, Georgia twice, he was in charge for all of them. He just isn’t the guy.

 

[IrishLax]

That’s bullshit. It’s coaching. Always has been always will be. Stop making excuses for him.

After every big game blowout we blame recruiting, coordinators, the gug, academics, whatever, the one thing that has been present for everyone of them is Kelly. Bama 2012, Ohio state, clemson 15 18 20, Georgia twice, he was in charge for all of them. He just isn’t the guy.

Curious when we got blown out by Georgia twice or Clemson in '15... and it's certainly not suspicious at all that you list none of the big wins that happened in that timeframe.

 

[ThePiombino]

That’s bullshit. It’s coaching. Always has been always will be. Stop making excuses for him.



After every big game blowout we blame recruiting, coordinators, the gug, academics, whatever, the one thing that has been present for everyone of them is Kelly. Bama 2012, Ohio state, clemson 15 18 20, Georgia twice, he was in charge for all of them. He just isn’t the guy.

Who, that ND could actually attract, would walk in here tomorrow and do better with what we have to work with? Lemme guess - HiRe UrBaN!!!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

[NDRock]

Kelly has accomplished some great things at ND. I do think there is some valid criticism in his record against elite teams. We have faired pretty poorly as underdogs during his tenure especially when the opponent has extra time to prepare.

 

[Bishop2b5]

We have a great coach. What we don't have is school and program willing to skirt (being kind here) the rules and/or throw academics out the window.

I don't think you have to throw academics out the window. It doesn't have to be a 100% either/or thing between academics and football. There's a LOT of middle ground. I think what most want is a small, reasonable relaxing of the academic requirements in a few cases so that ND can bring in some outstanding players that might need help to graduate, vs demanding that virtually all of the recruits be top tier scholars. That's how it was in decades past when ND was wining national championships. The football program was allowed to bring in players who were solid, if not brilliant, students. It didn't compromise the school's mission, the sky didn't fall, and the world didn't come to an end.

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't think you have to throw academics out the window. It doesn't have to be a 100% either/or thing between academics and football. There's a LOT of middle ground. I think what most want is a small, reasonable relaxing of the academic requirements in a few cases so that ND can bring in some outstanding players that might need help to graduate, vs demanding that virtually all of the recruits be top tier scholars. That's how it was in decades past when ND was wining national championships. The football program was allowed to bring in players who were solid, if not brilliant, students. It didn't compromise the school's mission, the sky didn't fall, and the world didn't come to an end.

It DOES have to be here though -- ND doesn't live in the "middle ground". That's the problem. Our potential talent pool is greatly reduced because of this.

 

[Irishize]

I don't think you have to throw academics out the window. It doesn't have to be a 100% either/or thing between academics and football. There's a LOT of middle ground. I think what most want is a small, reasonable relaxing of the academic requirements in a few cases so that ND can bring in some outstanding players that might need help to graduate, vs demanding that virtually all of the recruits be top tier scholars. That's how it was in decades past when ND was wining national championships. The football program was allowed to bring in players who were solid, if not brilliant, students. It didn't compromise the school's mission, the sky didn't fall, and the world didn't come to an end.

Yes, the middle ground is at least a compromise and opens the door to at least recruiting more 4-5 stars to at least try to attract them to the ND program. Take a kid from the Deep South who is a phenom that everyone is after. He’s being raised by a single mom w/ multiple siblings. She desperately wants to the best for him & her family. She also has morals & ethics. Additionally, she wants to send her son to a program w/ strong academics w/ a HC & staff that could at least be a temporary quasi-father figure.

You may read that and say, “no one can expect a head coach or assistant coach to have time to mentor one of 85 kids under their direction”. That’s b/c you likely were fortunate to have a father or father figure in your life. Some of these kids have sports as their life raft. If they don’t take it, mom knows her son will find “father figures” somewhere and that usually is found on the streets.

Chris Zorich is Exhibit A for how this worked at ND. Son of a single mom from a bi-racial relationship trying to survive on the South side of Chicago. You don’t think he & his mom knew football was their way out? With loosened restrictions, ND was able to take a chance on a kid like Chris Zorich. He became a legend at ND but more importantly a successful human being and husband/father.

Imagine having someone like him on staff to get in front of a single mom of a phenom in Mississippi? Go watch Zorich’s last game at ND. It was the heartbreaking loss to Colorado when Rocket ran back what looked like the winning TD on an ill-advised punt by the Buffs. Zorich was a one-man wrecking crew in that game seemingly in on every tackle. He was going to will the Irish to the win. They fell short due to something benign as a yellow flag. I will never forget him sobbing on the bench after the game. I don’t recall the specifics, but IIRC when he went home to Chicago he found his mom dead in her apartment. Broke my heart but I’m glad to see that he turned out to be a true ND man.

So it can be done...if Notre Dame will be flexible. They can do that w/o being a factory & yes that may build resentment from the students & professors who are there for the education & think the football players get special treatment. No time like the present for those folks to learn that life isn’t fair. Fair is a place they award a pig a blue ribbon. ND wants their cake & eat it, too much like the B1G did when deciding to play football during a pandemic.

 

[Rogue219]

There's just no margin for error. Certain recruits they can't even touch, certain recruits won't touch them, you have Stanford and Northwestern to compete with for the smart kids who are four star players.

The current crop of scholastic talent is old enough to remember ND getting housed by Alabama in 2012. They see Lou Holtz as Trump's buddy, not the guy who wanted Jimmy Johnson's ass. So much of what this program is up against is that the history is too far into the past now.

It boils down to getting recruits on campus and if they don't "get it", then there really isn't a shot. THAT part still holds true.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Yes, the middle ground is at least a compromise and opens the door to at least recruiting more 4-5 stars to at least try to attract them to the ND program. Take a kid from the Deep South who is a phenom that everyone is after. He’s being raised by a single mom w/ multiple siblings. She desperately wants to the best for him & her family. She also has morals & ethics. Additionally, she wants to send her son to a program w/ strong academics w/ a HC & staff that could at least be a temporary quasi-father figure.

You may read that and say, “no one can expect a head coach or assistant coach to have time to mentor one of 85 kids under their direction”. That’s b/c you likely were fortunate to have a father or father figure in your life. Some of these kids have sports as their life raft. If they don’t take it, mom knows her son will find “father figures” somewhere and that usually is found on the streets.

Chris Zorich is Exhibit A for how this worked at ND. Son of a single mom from a bi-racial relationship trying to survive on the South side of Chicago. You don’t think he & his mom knew football was their way out? With loosened restrictions, ND was able to take a chance on a kid like Chris Zorich. He became a legend at ND but more importantly a successful human being and husband/father.

Imagine having someone like him on staff to get in front of a single mom of a phenom in Mississippi? Go watch Zorich’s last game at ND. It was the heartbreaking loss to Colorado when Rocket ran back what looked like the winning TD on an ill-advised punt by the Buffs. Zorich was a one-man wrecking crew in that game seemingly in on every tackle. He was going to will the Irish to the win. They fell short due to something benign as a yellow flag. I will never forget him sobbing on the bench after the game. I don’t recall the specifics, but IIRC when he went home to Chicago he found his mom dead in her apartment. Broke my heart but I’m glad to see that he turned out to be a true ND man.

So it can be done...if Notre Dame will be flexible. They can do that w/o being a factory & yes that may build resentment from the students & professors who are there for the education & think the football players get special treatment. No time like the present for those folks to learn that life isn’t fair. Fair is a place they award a pig a blue ribbon. ND wants their cake & eat it, too much like the B1G did when deciding to play football during a pandemic.

I can't find words to praise this as much as it deserves. Beyond just educating the already academically elite, stories of providing and opportunity for someone like Zorich should also be a priority. I'm not talking about the kid who realistically doesn't have the ability to succeed at a high academic level. I mean the kid who, as you described above, has the potential, but hasn't had the opportunity and help and guidance to do so yet. Football is often that kid's ticket to a good school and once there, with a little help, that guy can absolutely excel on the field AND in the classroom.

 

[Irishize]

There's just no margin for error. Certain recruits they can't even touch, certain recruits won't touch them, you have Stanford and Northwestern to compete with for the smart kids who are four star players.

The current crop of scholastic talent is old enough to remember ND getting housed by Alabama in 2012. They see Lou Holtz as Trump's buddy, not the guy who wanted Jimmy Johnson's ass. So much of what this program is up against is that the history is too far into the past now.

It boils down to getting recruits on campus and if they don't "get it", then there really isn't a shot. THAT part still holds true.

Sure that’s part of it. But you nor I have any idea how many elite HS phenoms never get to even entertain an ND offer b/c the coaches can’t entertain even reaching out and expending energy on a kid that can’t qualify. These are kids who we have zero idea what they truly think about Notre Dame. Lou Holtz doesn’t even register on a HS kid’s radar much like Jimmy Johnson doesn’t. They’re both old guys who used to coach football when it was a different game. They sure as hell aren’t wasting energy about some old white guys politics.

Imagine how cynical SEC coaches get when hitting the recruiting trail in states like MS, LA & AL. Not sure where you live...but those are welfare states and most of those elite recruits come from a single parent (mother) household where they have to win over mom as much as the kid. To dismiss ND of having a chance is an insult to those parents & kids b/c we have cynically stereotyped them as the infamous “Fatherless Phenom w/ Learning Disability” (can’t recall who coined that phrase).

 

[NDRock]

I think there are positives with the kids ND recruits. Typically, they commit to the school meaning less de-committing. Usually less transfers, trouble with the law and other distractions. Will be interesting how this plays out with the new transfer rules. May give us an advantage if we have less turnover than others.

 

[IrishLax]

Yes, the middle ground is at least a compromise and opens the door to at least recruiting more 4-5 stars to at least try to attract them to the ND program. Take a kid from the Deep South who is a phenom that everyone is after. He’s being raised by a single mom w/ multiple siblings. She desperately wants to the best for him & her family. She also has morals & ethics. Additionally, she wants to send her son to a program w/ strong academics w/ a HC & staff that could at least be a temporary quasi-father figure.

You may read that and say, “no one can expect a head coach or assistant coach to have time to mentor one of 85 kids under their direction”. That’s b/c you likely were fortunate to have a father or father figure in your life. Some of these kids have sports as their life raft. If they don’t take it, mom knows her son will find “father figures” somewhere and that usually is found on the streets.

Chris Zorich is Exhibit A for how this worked at ND. Son of a single mom from a bi-racial relationship trying to survive on the South side of Chicago. You don’t think he & his mom knew football was their way out? With loosened restrictions, ND was able to take a chance on a kid like Chris Zorich. He became a legend at ND but more importantly a successful human being and husband/father.

Imagine having someone like him on staff to get in front of a single mom of a phenom in Mississippi? Go watch Zorich’s last game at ND. It was the heartbreaking loss to Colorado when Rocket ran back what looked like the winning TD on an ill-advised punt by the Buffs. Zorich was a one-man wrecking crew in that game seemingly in on every tackle. He was going to will the Irish to the win. They fell short due to something benign as a yellow flag. I will never forget him sobbing on the bench after the game. I don’t recall the specifics, but IIRC when he went home to Chicago he found his mom dead in her apartment. Broke my heart but I’m glad to see that he turned out to be a true ND man.

So it can be done...if Notre Dame will be flexible. They can do that w/o being a factory & yes that may build resentment from the students & professors who are there for the education & think the football players get special treatment. No time like the present for those folks to learn that life isn’t fair. Fair is a place they award a pig a blue ribbon. ND wants their cake & eat it, too much like the B1G did when deciding to play football during a pandemic.

This is a really good post, but it invites the slippery slope argument. For every Zorich, there is an Aaron Lynch cautionary tale. One of the things that is underrated about Sabam and Dabo is that they do an unbelievable job of managing egos and making sure that no one is bigger than the culture // program. Those that are headcases get straightened out or kicked to the curb (see: Antonio Alfano).

 

[Luckylucci]

This is a really good post, but it invites the slippery slope argument. For every Zorich, there is an Aaron Lynch cautionary tale. One of the things that is underrated about Sabam and Dabo is that they do an unbelievable job of managing egos and making sure that no one is bigger than the culture // program. Those that are headcases get straightened out or kicked to the curb (see: Antonio Alfano).

And, I think this is the issue that Kelly and Company have been trying to balance. Probably will always have too. Obviously, the recruitment of Stephon Tuitt was hugely beneficial to ND. But Aaron Lynch not so much. What if they got a kid like Will Schweitzer who was in the program for 4 or 5 years, what is the impact of that. Is that guy a productive member of the 2014-2015 defense? Same goes for Greg Bryant. It's really hard to answer these questions but there is very clearly potential risks that are unique to ND.

I do think the staff should be focused on bringing in the best possible players for the program but they have to be fits because if they transfer out, they provide no value. Ala, Noah Boykin. Big recruiting win, zero impact to the program.

 

[Luckylucci]

Food for thought, per the 247 composite, the 2 highest rated members of the 2011 and 2012 classes all had dramatic recruitments and incredible troubles at ND. 3 transferred and provided little to no value. The 4th, Ishaq Williams, was kicked out of school for a year and mightly struggled the rest of the time.

It looked really good on paper for recruitniks to brag about but that's it.

 

[philipm31]

Aside from everything else, we are probably further away if just because the playoff. Beating a Alabama or Clemson or Ohio State in one game is difficult, but it could happen. But now we have to beat two of those teams to win it all? That might just be too much. I guess its still possible if we eventually get to their talent level or we have a crazy magical season like LSU last year, but right now, I can't predict either of those things happening in the near future, so I would say we are further away from a championship.

Yeah it used to be that if you beat #1 that was a big deal. Hell you jumped to #1 yourself usually. Now you are lucky if you do not have to play #1 three times in a season.

 

[NDRock]

Food for thought, per the 247 composite, the 2 highest rated members of the 2011 and 2012 classes all had dramatic recruitments and incredible troubles at ND. 3 transferred and provided little to no value. The 4th, Ishaq Williams, was kicked out of school for a year and mightly struggled the rest of the time.

It looked really good on paper for recruitniks to brag about but that's it.

Very true. What else is true is that literally every other class of Kelly’s the top two have been anywhere from contributors to All-Americans. Not a transfer among the 18. Always easy to cherry pick a few successful 3* players or point out 5* players who flame out.

 

[Luckylucci]

Very true. What else is true is that literally every other class of Kelly’s the top two have been anywhere from contributors to All-Americans. Not a transfer among the 18. Always easy to cherry pick a few successful 3* players or point out 5* players who flame out.

It's hardly cherry picking, they were first two, full, cycles of Kelly's tenure. If you include 2013, so 3 straight cycles, they had one insane success in Jaylon Smith and just a guy in Redfield with 4 duds. So, the top 2 prospects over 3 cycles (6 prospects) saw 1 guy have a meaningful impact on the program. That's terrible.

So, post 2013 is when Kelly and staff decided to start putting more emphasis on fit than just stars. Nobody is saying that there aren't star HS prospects that are fits for ND. There are just less of them and that's the point. When they tried to play the game with everyone, they were missing A LOT. When they decided to narrow the board and go after stars that were fits, they hit at a higher rate, but have a harder time bringing them in.

 

[PANDFAN]

My hope of all hopes is that TB shows up to spring and fall camp and takes the fucking keys.

Tom Brady is a statue and exhausted his eligibility..we need a dual threat running qb

That’s bullshit. It’s coaching. Always has been always will be. Stop making excuses for him.

After every big game blowout we blame recruiting, coordinators, the gug, academics, whatever, the one thing that has been present for everyone of them is Kelly. Bama 2012, Ohio state, clemson 15 18 20, Georgia twice, he was in charge for all of them. He just isn’t the guy.

is this jo jo black's burner account???? r