ND's Talking Heads ... The good, bad & ugly

Giddyup

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Solely because he coached in the most games. He also has the most losses by a lot. And he had some of the easiest schedules in ND history.
The infamous glass half full or half empty. I think we all know BK had the most success since Lou in the 90’s. Top 5 finishes, etc. If you don't see that not sure I can tell you anything to change your mind.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Weis was handcuffed much more than BK ever was. ResLife was a mess in the 00s. Remember Kyle McAlarney missing an entire basketball season due to one weed infraction?

Also, facilities were not near what they were under BK, no training table, had to drag the university to allow early enrollees, etc.
Weis' choice of assistant coaches was awful.
However - ND paid shit back then for assistants too - so many that was some part of the issue too?
 

Some Irish Bloke

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The infamous glass half full or half empty. I think we all know BK had the most success since Lou in the 90’s. Top 5 finishes, etc. If you don't see that not sure I can tell you anything to change your mind.
You could also count on one hand the number of times BK won a big game; Freeman ran Clemson off of the field in his first year at the helm.

You can go ahead and list Stanford and Marshall but I raise you a USF, Tulsa, Navy, etc.

Freeman inherited a shitty QB/WR situation and started the season about as poorly as you could, but never gave up and led us to a respectable season with a less than ideal QB.
 

Irishdrunk

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You could also count on one hand the number of times BK won a big game; Freeman ran Clemson off of the field in his first year at the helm.

You can go ahead and list Stanford and Marshall but I raise you a USF, Tulsa, Navy, etc.

Freeman inherited a shitty QB/WR situation and started the season about as poorly as you could, but never gave up and led us to a respectable season with a less than ideal QB.
Freeman as HC decided not to take a transfer QB. This was on his watch and an obvious learning curve. He can't just stand by when his various Coordinators do as they please.

If you think 9-4 season is what fans or even nationally recognized analysts think would have been a "respectable season" at the outset of the season, the data including rankings doesn't support your position.

I am fairly certain if BK was HC we would not have lost 4 games and if he had, many ND posters including yourself would not have deemed such a "respectable season"
 

Some Irish Bloke

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Freeman as HC decided not to take a transfer QB. This was on his watch and an obvious learning curve. He can't just stand by when his various Coordinators do as they please.

If you think 9-4 season is what fans or even nationally recognized analysts think would have been a "respectable season" at the outset of the season, the data including rankings doesn't support your position.

I am fairly certain if BK was HC we would not have lost 4 games and if he had, many ND posters including yourself would not have deemed such a "respectable season"
Idk what planet you live on but a 9-2 run after 0-2 start is pretty damn respectable, with a backup QB to boot. He clearly got more comfortable as the season progressed as a rookie HC, and the trajectory of this program is on the right path.

Not to mention he is 10x the human being BK is, which is on full display.

Go join a LSU message board and spare us the BK drivel.
 

TheProspector

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The infamous glass half full or half empty. I think we all know BK had the most success since Lou in the 90’s. Top 5 finishes, etc. If you don't see that not sure I can tell you anything to change your mind.
Most success since Lou isn’t some grand accomplishment when you’re comparing yourself to Davie/Ty/Weis.

The interesting thing about the prior 3 is that all had their highest win percentage of their careers at ND. Every other HC stop those guys had they were abject failures except for maybe Ty at Stanford although he was a .500 coach there. His Washington tenure is one of the worst coaching performances maybe in D1 history. My point though is that we like to think ND handcuffs it’s coaches but it’s still a top 10 program that will have more talent and advantages than maybe all but 1 or 2 teams on its schedule each year.

I suspect BK wouldn’t have had the most success since Lou if O’Leary had been the coach instead of Ty.

One last note on BK, it took him 8 years to figure out the ND job. He lost at least 4 games 5 times between 2010-2016 although we seem to only want to remember his run from 2017-2021. Additionally the Cincinnati program has done just fine since BK left. I suspect ND will also be just fine with Freeman at the helm.
 

StPaul_Irish

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The board was set up with a top 5 roster of IrishLax, Whiskey, Dale, etc. thanks to Kelly fighting admin., but now we’re left with second rate posters like Irishdrunk, Giddyup, and Putuporshutup because Freeman is Swarbrick’s lackey. LSU’s board is full of incredible posters who aren’t afraid of Saban anymore and know what it takes to win.

I was a solid 3* coming out of HS, but I have 4* upside.
 

ndfanatic78

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The infamous glass half full or half empty. I think we all know BK had the most success since Lou in the 90’s. Top 5 finishes, etc. If you don't see that not sure I can tell you anything to change your mind.
And against the weakest opponents in the history of the program and against a historically weak USC who was under sanctions during part of the time and had to totally rebuild and he still managed to lose more games than any coach in ND history By A Large MARGIN! He was a good coach. That’s it and he had questionable morals. In any other era of ND football he would have been fired after year five and never sniffed Rockne’s record.
 

Luckylucci

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Weis was handcuffed much more than BK ever was. ResLife was a mess in the 00s. Remember Kyle McAlarney missing an entire basketball season due to one weed infraction?

Also, facilities were not near what they were under BK, no training table, had to drag the university to allow early enrollees, etc.
That’s because BK changed the environment. Weiss won 16 games his last 3 years. If he wasn’t such a bad HC. He’d have been able to go to Swarbrick and make the demands Kelly did.

Kelly won 16 games in his first two and then 12 in his 3rd. That gets shit done. Which it did.
 
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Luckylucci

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While I'm on the #FBK band wagon and likely will be for life now. I'm unsure if people realize what BK was able to do. As Brian Kelly had success at ND, he literally worked program upgrades into his contracts. That's how a fucking gangster roles. You want to keep me around, give our program this. So, all this talk about BK being a self serving prick, a politician, etc. Cool, he's an asshole, I agree. But, he's the asshole that made this shit happen for our program. Nobody else did. Now, we'll see what Freeman does. Would I rather root for the nice, energetic, charismatic guy who hits home runs to support the woman's softball team? Of course, few people are that numb. But, I also want a coach that is going to look out for the program in contract negotiations and get shit done.
 

IRISHDODGER

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While I'm on the #FBK band wagon and likely will be for life now. I'm unsure if people realize what BK was able to do. As Brian Kelly had success at ND, he literally worked program upgrades into his contracts. That's how a fucking gangster roles. You want to keep me around, give our program this. So, all this talk about BK being a self serving prick, a politician, etc. Cool, he's an asshole, I agree. But, he's the asshole that made this shit happen for our program. Nobody else did. Now, we'll see what Freeman does. Would I rather root for the nice, energetic, charismatic guy who hits home runs to support the woman's softball team? Of course, few people are that numb. But, I also want a coach that is going to look out for the program in contract negotiations and get shit done.
I agree. I wondered if BK lowered his expectations after he was at ND a few years or if they weren’t that high to begin with due to the failures of the previous 3 coaches & the perceived academic hurdles. He’s definitely a savvy politician. I still laugh when Prister recalls BK claiming to be a lifelong ND fan before being asked who is favorite players were & he couldn’t name one!

Regardless, he took a broken program where it was today & did get some upgrades done. And shame on ND for not keeping their end of the deal as they could’ve at least gotten a buyout from LSU had they completed the upgrades that BK demanded as part of his contract. My regret is that I wish he’d realized how much more he could’ve accomplished if he had Freeman’s mindset & intensity both on the field (where BK was actually good) & off the field (specifically as it pertains to recruiting).
 

Irishdrunk

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Idk what planet you live on but a 9-2 run after 0-2 start is pretty damn respectable, with a backup QB to boot. He clearly got more comfortable as the season progressed as a rookie HC, and the trajectory of this program is on the right path.

Not to mention he is 10x the human being BK is, which is on full display.

Go join a LSU message board and spare us the BK drivel.
I am on the planet that it was a 9-4 season....nice breaking up the season as only a defender of a lackluster season would do. The QB Room is part of the football program last I checked. He was the Head Coach. But he was a very green HC and that is the risk ND took in hiring this guy. He certainly didn't have BK's resume when he came over from Cincinnati - another program he turned around.

Is the program trajectory really on the right path?? Our 2023 class is now #10. This is not shopping down a different aisle. We shall see but some of this is not Freeman's fault but the Admin. The interesting part will be if Freeman pushes back for future changes like Kelly did. None of these Admins are willing to keep up with the SEC and elite Big 10 programs. Not getting the OC he wanted was not good. The way Swarbrick handles Freeman is different than Kelly. Swarbrick has the HC he wants in Freeman.

Weis was a wonderful human being and his recruiting was good but he sucked as a HC. Didn't know being a great human being is a factor towards being a successful HC. Saban doesn't seem like he would be a nice guy either. But yes I grant you that Kelly is a jerk the rest of your post fails.
 

Irishdrunk

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While I'm on the #FBK band wagon and likely will be for life now. I'm unsure if people realize what BK was able to do. As Brian Kelly had success at ND, he literally worked program upgrades into his contracts. That's how a fucking gangster roles. You want to keep me around, give our program this. So, all this talk about BK being a self serving prick, a politician, etc. Cool, he's an asshole, I agree. But, he's the asshole that made this shit happen for our program. Nobody else did. Now, we'll see what Freeman does. Would I rather root for the nice, energetic, charismatic guy who hits home runs to support the woman's softball team? Of course, few people are that numb. But, I also want a coach that is going to look out for the program in contract negotiations and get shit done.
Agreed. Kelly may not be likable but he was a tough son of a bitch and got the program turned around despite many road blocks from ND Administration. These same type of road blocks will be in Freeman's future and he better fucking push back like Kelly did. This offseason was not a good look with the Admin blundering the OC Search.

Its funny, when Kelly recruited Freeman, Freeman stated that Brian Kelly told him on the first call: "Money is not going to be an issue..." Now Freeman is HC and wants his OC and he can't say the same thing on his OC candidate.
 

Giddyup

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That’s got to be a high honor to be on old man 88 and poop dicks 5 star list. I’m jealous
 

irishnd31

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tenor.gif
 

NDFAN420

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Agreed. Kelly may not be likable but he was a tough son of a bitch and got the program turned around despite many road blocks from ND Administration. These same type of road blocks will be in Freeman's future and he better fucking push back like Kelly did. This offseason was not a good look with the Admin blundering the OC Search.

Its funny, when Kelly recruited Freeman, Freeman stated that Brian Kelly told him on the first call: "Money is not going to be an issue..." Now Freeman is HC and wants his OC and he can't say the same thing on his OC candidate.
He didn't do enough as a coach, a recruiter, nor as a person to completely dig himself out of the hole he dug for the Tulsa decision and comments thereafter. It made him suspect so after he maxed out his golf game in South Bend. he took himself and his fam-uly to LSU, and good riddance.
 

TheProspector

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That’s because BK changed the environment. Weiss won 16 games his last 3 years. If he wasn’t such a bad HC. He’d have been able to go to Swarbrick and make the demands Kelly did.

Kelly won 16 games in his first two and then 12 in his 3rd. That gets shit done. Which it did.
I don’t buy that. I’d say Swarbrick was way more responsible for the changing the environment than BK. Although sure, BK did whine until the end about shopping down a different aisle.

And how in 2023 do we still have fans calling Charlie “Weiss”?
 

Irish#1

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I am on the planet that it was a 9-4 season....nice breaking up the season as only a defender of a lackluster season would do. The QB Room is part of the football program last I checked. He was the Head Coach. But he was a very green HC and that is the risk ND took in hiring this guy. He certainly didn't have BK's resume when he came over from Cincinnati - another program he turned around.

Is the program trajectory really on the right path?? Our 2023 class is now #10. This is not shopping down a different aisle. We shall see but some of this is not Freeman's fault but the Admin. The interesting part will be if Freeman pushes back for future changes like Kelly did. None of these Admins are willing to keep up with the SEC and elite Big 10 programs. Not getting the OC he wanted was not good. The way Swarbrick handles Freeman is different than Kelly. Swarbrick has the HC he wants in Freeman.

Weis was a wonderful human being and his recruiting was good but he sucked as a HC. Didn't know being a great human being is a factor towards being a successful HC. Saban doesn't seem like he would be a nice guy either. But yes I grant you that Kelly is a jerk the rest of your post fails.
Losing kids to ridiculous NIL money isn't the fault of Freeman or the admin.
 

Luckylucci

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I don’t buy that. I’d say Swarbrick was way more responsible for the changing the environment than BK. Although sure, BK did whine until the end about shopping down a different aisle.

And how in 2023 do we still have fans calling Charlie “Weiss”?
I'm not really concerned if you buy it. It's still a fact.

Just a typo my dude. Though I am concerned it bothered you that much.
 

StPaul_Irish

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I don’t buy that. I’d say Swarbrick was way more responsible for the changing the environment than BK. Although sure, BK did whine until the end about shopping down a different aisle.

And how in 2023 do we still have fans calling Charlie “Weiss”?

Go check out some Tommy Reece threads
 
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