Rocket89
Uniform Connoisseur
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Here's my take:
1.) The problem(s) is almost entirely a cultural/age/passion issue.
This is obvious to anyone who has ever watched a game inside the Stadium. There are too many old people. There are too many people who don't care about the outcome. There are too many people who don't even know the rules of game. There are too many people there because it's an event, and not because they have a vested interest, passion, or love for Irish football.
I think it's largely a generational issue. The Baby Boomer generation was able to live through Ara's dominance as kids, the late Ara to Devine dominance as young adults, and Lou's dominance as grown men with young families. Now this huge section of the population and fan base is in their 60's and hasn't seen any dominance in almost 20 years. They're still devoted, but they don't drink as much, if at all anymore, and life has changed for them. Due to the losing, they probably feel bitter and cheated.
I also think that the campus and students have changed. 20 or 30 years ago the students were much more white, less diverse, and much more into football. Nowadays, there is so much more diversity and not as much passion for the football team. The students are still loud no doubt, but I don't think it's like it was decades ago. I mean, pep rallies way back in the day used to be as fierce as some military rallies. They didn't mess around.
2.) Acoustics play a part, but not a very big one.
After all, the stadium does get very loud on occasion. Acoustics is a small issue, but the main problem is people not being loud enough for a long enough time.
3.) Winning consistently will not change the atmosphere until issue #1 above is dealt with.
This one I am almost certainly sure is true. Winning consistently will help, yes. Dominating for years will help even more. But I still think issue #1 is the biggest problem and will ultimately override any winning.
I think deep down, the fans that are honest with themselves know this is true. Our fan base has too many generational issues and is much too fickle and not easily pleased for multiple 10+ win seasons to really change the atmosphere in a real and lasting way every single home game.
Just picture Notre Dame being undefeated going into a midseason home game this year against Air Force and Navy. Will the atmosphere be charged up? Yeah, a little bit more. Will the fans cheer a little bit more? Of course they will.
But check back with 6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter with the Irish up by 24 points. There's no way that anyone who has ever been to game's there in recent years can believe that the crowd will be anything other than sedated at that point.
And that's the problem...the crowd is not consistently loud for an entire game hardly ever. People always say, "The game I was at was super loud!!!" but I think booze and being with a loud group of friends tends to skew a lot of people's perception of an entire crowd of 80,795.
For example, someone in this thread mentioned how loud or amped the 2009 Navy game was. I was there...the crowd was absolutely, certifiably, beyond awful.
Of course if the Irish are dominant there will be very loud games from time to time, heck that happens now when the team isn't dominant, but there's no way that passion and loudness would be sustained through a 6 or 7 home game schedule with a few of those coming against pretty weak and uninspiring opponents.
And as I've written about before, winning shouldn't really matter anyway. Win or lose, a ND Stadium crowd of 80,000+ people (21st largest non-racing stadium in the entire country) should bring it every Saturday. We do not.
Yes, there are some other big venues that are quiet too. But they aren't Notre Dame. I like to bring up the Buffalo Bills here because their stadium is smaller than ND Stadium, the team is much worse, and the weather tends to be worse as well. Yet, compared to ND the games there are a mad house. The average decibel level is consistently higher through the "dead" periods when the game is not being played, the reactions to the play are much louder, and third downs for the opponents it gets very loud. At ND, we get half-hearted third down yelling and the occasional loud burst from a touchdown.
4.) Personal hand held technology is becoming a bigger problem each and every year.
This is my biggest issue right now, and one that many people who are against a video board, don't seem to realize.
Not that I'm 100% in favor of a video board. If you can fix problem #1 above, then I don't think we're even having any of these discussions.
However, 10 years ago not many people were bringing cell phones to Irish games. Today, a lot of people are playing with their phones. What's it going to be like in 10 more years???
I like to think that I'm pretty passionate and into the games when I'm there, but what if in 10 years time I can have all of this ridiculous amount of stats, info, video, replays at the touch of a button?
I know, I know...the ADD culture and all that...the need to be visually stimulated all the time. I get that...and I agree to a certain point. But most people confuse the issue here.
In other words, is it worse to have thousands of people playing with their phones like it is now (and like it will be even worse in the future), or is it better to have a video board that keeps people into, not just the game and the plays, but the entire experience of being inside the stadium??
I've said before, technology and the modern hand held devices are going to force a video board into the stadium. I don't have a problem with that because:
A.) The atmosphere pretty much sucks now and with improving technology it is bound to only get worse
B.) I don't consider a video board to go against the "culture" or "morals" of the University like some people like to think. I want to go to a game to watch my favorite team in the world play football, and to be entertained. Yes, the "Wimbeldon" atmosphere is nice, but I want to have fun. I want to be able to bring friends and not have to make excuses for why it is so dull and boring.
C.) I think a video board can be done tastefully, and if it is, I believe (unlike many others) that the school would do a good job with it.
It all boils down to what Notre Dame wants people to watch, and what they want them to do during games. At the rate we're going....with a largely disinterested fan base and people playing with their cell phones for a whole variety of reasons....the school and the program are losing their affect, grasp, and influence on the people in the seats.
If I could snap my fingers and change some of the problems forever and keep the Wimbledon atmosphere, I would do it. But I think we're kind of living a dream with that honestly. I firmly believe that at some point, and probably after about three or four years of Kelly winning a lot of football games, that some of the powers that be are going to realize that winning isn't enough and they will have to take back the crowd and get them to watch what they want them to watch. God knows I'd rather look up at a video board and watch some highlights of past ND plays, then fall asleep in my seat because the crowd is so damn quiet.
/RealTalk
1.) The problem(s) is almost entirely a cultural/age/passion issue.
This is obvious to anyone who has ever watched a game inside the Stadium. There are too many old people. There are too many people who don't care about the outcome. There are too many people who don't even know the rules of game. There are too many people there because it's an event, and not because they have a vested interest, passion, or love for Irish football.
I think it's largely a generational issue. The Baby Boomer generation was able to live through Ara's dominance as kids, the late Ara to Devine dominance as young adults, and Lou's dominance as grown men with young families. Now this huge section of the population and fan base is in their 60's and hasn't seen any dominance in almost 20 years. They're still devoted, but they don't drink as much, if at all anymore, and life has changed for them. Due to the losing, they probably feel bitter and cheated.
I also think that the campus and students have changed. 20 or 30 years ago the students were much more white, less diverse, and much more into football. Nowadays, there is so much more diversity and not as much passion for the football team. The students are still loud no doubt, but I don't think it's like it was decades ago. I mean, pep rallies way back in the day used to be as fierce as some military rallies. They didn't mess around.
2.) Acoustics play a part, but not a very big one.
After all, the stadium does get very loud on occasion. Acoustics is a small issue, but the main problem is people not being loud enough for a long enough time.
3.) Winning consistently will not change the atmosphere until issue #1 above is dealt with.
This one I am almost certainly sure is true. Winning consistently will help, yes. Dominating for years will help even more. But I still think issue #1 is the biggest problem and will ultimately override any winning.
I think deep down, the fans that are honest with themselves know this is true. Our fan base has too many generational issues and is much too fickle and not easily pleased for multiple 10+ win seasons to really change the atmosphere in a real and lasting way every single home game.
Just picture Notre Dame being undefeated going into a midseason home game this year against Air Force and Navy. Will the atmosphere be charged up? Yeah, a little bit more. Will the fans cheer a little bit more? Of course they will.
But check back with 6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter with the Irish up by 24 points. There's no way that anyone who has ever been to game's there in recent years can believe that the crowd will be anything other than sedated at that point.
And that's the problem...the crowd is not consistently loud for an entire game hardly ever. People always say, "The game I was at was super loud!!!" but I think booze and being with a loud group of friends tends to skew a lot of people's perception of an entire crowd of 80,795.
For example, someone in this thread mentioned how loud or amped the 2009 Navy game was. I was there...the crowd was absolutely, certifiably, beyond awful.
Of course if the Irish are dominant there will be very loud games from time to time, heck that happens now when the team isn't dominant, but there's no way that passion and loudness would be sustained through a 6 or 7 home game schedule with a few of those coming against pretty weak and uninspiring opponents.
And as I've written about before, winning shouldn't really matter anyway. Win or lose, a ND Stadium crowd of 80,000+ people (21st largest non-racing stadium in the entire country) should bring it every Saturday. We do not.
Yes, there are some other big venues that are quiet too. But they aren't Notre Dame. I like to bring up the Buffalo Bills here because their stadium is smaller than ND Stadium, the team is much worse, and the weather tends to be worse as well. Yet, compared to ND the games there are a mad house. The average decibel level is consistently higher through the "dead" periods when the game is not being played, the reactions to the play are much louder, and third downs for the opponents it gets very loud. At ND, we get half-hearted third down yelling and the occasional loud burst from a touchdown.
4.) Personal hand held technology is becoming a bigger problem each and every year.
This is my biggest issue right now, and one that many people who are against a video board, don't seem to realize.
Not that I'm 100% in favor of a video board. If you can fix problem #1 above, then I don't think we're even having any of these discussions.
However, 10 years ago not many people were bringing cell phones to Irish games. Today, a lot of people are playing with their phones. What's it going to be like in 10 more years???
I like to think that I'm pretty passionate and into the games when I'm there, but what if in 10 years time I can have all of this ridiculous amount of stats, info, video, replays at the touch of a button?
I know, I know...the ADD culture and all that...the need to be visually stimulated all the time. I get that...and I agree to a certain point. But most people confuse the issue here.
In other words, is it worse to have thousands of people playing with their phones like it is now (and like it will be even worse in the future), or is it better to have a video board that keeps people into, not just the game and the plays, but the entire experience of being inside the stadium??
I've said before, technology and the modern hand held devices are going to force a video board into the stadium. I don't have a problem with that because:
A.) The atmosphere pretty much sucks now and with improving technology it is bound to only get worse
B.) I don't consider a video board to go against the "culture" or "morals" of the University like some people like to think. I want to go to a game to watch my favorite team in the world play football, and to be entertained. Yes, the "Wimbeldon" atmosphere is nice, but I want to have fun. I want to be able to bring friends and not have to make excuses for why it is so dull and boring.
C.) I think a video board can be done tastefully, and if it is, I believe (unlike many others) that the school would do a good job with it.
It all boils down to what Notre Dame wants people to watch, and what they want them to do during games. At the rate we're going....with a largely disinterested fan base and people playing with their cell phones for a whole variety of reasons....the school and the program are losing their affect, grasp, and influence on the people in the seats.
If I could snap my fingers and change some of the problems forever and keep the Wimbledon atmosphere, I would do it. But I think we're kind of living a dream with that honestly. I firmly believe that at some point, and probably after about three or four years of Kelly winning a lot of football games, that some of the powers that be are going to realize that winning isn't enough and they will have to take back the crowd and get them to watch what they want them to watch. God knows I'd rather look up at a video board and watch some highlights of past ND plays, then fall asleep in my seat because the crowd is so damn quiet.
/RealTalk
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