ND Coaching Search Megathread

TorontoGold

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I would go back to Taylor and offer him the co-offensive coordinator role and a pay rise. We are putting too much faith in Rees. I also think Rees would be sensible enough to accept that.

Rees has done a pretty good job as OC, Taylor has been good too - but are you really suggesting that you kneecap the guy you kept on before you hired your new HC?

"Tommy thanks for providing stability and keep the group together, we're demoting you to co-OC"
 

T-Boone

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Rees has done a pretty good job as OC, Taylor has been good too - but are you really suggesting that you kneecap the guy you kept on before you hired your new HC?

"Tommy thanks for providing stability and keep the group together, we're demoting you to co-OC"

Yes. But I admit I rate Taylor a lot higher than Rees. Taylor hads done better at ND recruiting and developing and he is more experienced.
 

Crazy Balki

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Yes. But I admit I rate Taylor a lot higher than Rees. Taylor hads done better at ND recruiting and developing and he is more experienced.

To be fair, Rees coaches the position that has far and away the most variables that are outside of a coach's control, on top of also running the entire offense.

And I think you underestimate how good of a recruiter Rees is. Taylor's very good, but we don't land the OL class we just got without Tommy.
 

T-Boone

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To be fair, Rees coaches the position that has far and away the most variables that are outside of a coach's control, on top of also running the entire offense.

And I think you underestimate how good of a recruiter Rees is. Taylor's very good, but we don't land the OL class we just got without Tommy.

His recruiting at QB has been unimpressive.
NB: I hope Buchner steps up and proves me wrong in 22, which I think he could.
 

ulukinatme

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His recruiting at QB has been unimpressive.
NB: I hope Buchner steps up and proves me wrong in 22, which I think he could.

It's Rees' fault 5 star Philure transferred? Buckner was the 11th ranked QB in his class and a Top 100 prospect. Angeli is about a midranked 4 star. Pyne was rated higher than Angeli. Clark was the only 3 star prospect recruited and he was a hair from a 4 star ranking. QBs like Trevor Lawrence don't just show up anywhere, and many don't even live up to the hype. In any given year there's realistically 2-3 elite QBs in a class and the chances of landing one are slim. Come back to reality.
 

T-Boone

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It's Rees' fault 5 star Philure transferred? Buckner was the 11th ranked QB in his class and a Top 100 prospect. Angeli is about a midranked 4 star. Pyne was rated higher than Angeli. Clark was the only 3 star prospect recruited and he was a hair from a 4 star ranking. QBs like Trevor Lawrence don't just show up anywhere, and many don't even live up to the hype. In any given year there's realistically 2-3 elite QBs in a class and the chances of landing one are slim. Come back to reality.

I think Rees working together with Taylor would recruit AND DEVELOP QBs better. I am just coming up with solutions.
 

IrishLax

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It has never been less important to hire “great recruiters.” If the pattern holds, virtually all top 100 guys moving forward will be bought not recruited. Same thing might expand into the entire top 300ish and beyond, but I doubt there is as lucrative a financial market for low four and three star players.

Then when you get to college, it’s going to be about how you acquire talent through the transfer portal and how you retain talent if you’re a lower tier school or one that isn’t paying.

How does Belk or any other “hungry recruiter” help ND combat that? I want the best coaches who are good at coaching and developing players. Hiestand is probably going to crush recruiting because he has something to sell and Rees can be the “hungry” guy.

I’m very skeptical that Stuckey, Belk, etc. are going to be any value add. They have no resumes. They got hired because they’re very charismatic and have similar personality type to Freeman. And I do think that Stuckey has all the hallmarks of a good coach, but I don’t think for a second he’s the kind of guy that is going to land Carnell Tate. I think if that happens it will be despite him not because of him.

We’re building the greenest staff in CFB and that’s going to rear it’s ugly head at some point. I wholly supported Lea to DC, Rees to OC, and Freeman to HC. It’s ok to roll the dice on people who you believe in. It’s not OK to build a staff where everyone is 30 and nobody in leadership is a grizzled veteran. Mistakes are going to be made, and I’m increasingly skeptical that we see a consistent product in the fall. If we opened up the bank for Wiggins and retained Elston and got Heacock I would feel 100% different.
 

tko

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I’d hate to see a possible 10-2 squad finish 8-4 because of game management and inexperienced coaching issues, but that very well could play out. When can we realistically expect a completed staff? I’d love to be a fly on the wall in the war room.
 

Grahambo

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It has never been less important to hire “great recruiters.” If the pattern holds, virtually all top 100 guys moving forward will be bought not recruited. Same thing might expand into the entire top 300ish and beyond, but I doubt there is as lucrative a financial market for low four and three star players.

Then when you get to college, it’s going to be about how you acquire talent through the transfer portal and how you retain talent if you’re a lower tier school or one that isn’t paying.

How does Belk or any other “hungry recruiter” help ND combat that? I want the best coaches who are good at coaching and developing players. Hiestand is probably going to crush recruiting because he has something to sell and Rees can be the “hungry” guy.

I’m very skeptical that Stuckey, Belk, etc. are going to be any value add. They have no resumes. They got hired because they’re very charismatic and have similar personality type to Freeman. And I do think that Stuckey has all the hallmarks of a good coach, but I don’t think for a second he’s the kind of guy that is going to land Carnell Tate. I think if that happens it will be despite him not because of him.

We’re building the greenest staff in CFB and that’s going to rear it’s ugly head at some point. I wholly supported Lea to DC, Rees to OC, and Freeman to HC. It’s ok to roll the dice on people who you believe in. It’s not OK to build a staff where everyone is 30 and nobody in leadership is a grizzled veteran. Mistakes are going to be made, and I’m increasingly skeptical that we see a consistent product in the fall. If we opened up the bank for Wiggins and retained Elston and got Heacock I would feel 100% different.

I get it. Veteran coaches are also capable of making their fair share of mistakes and when we look at the current landscape of college football, outside of Saban and Dabo, who would we really want from a veteran HC? Most are all retreads who vary from below average to above average but none move the needle for ND to reach the next level. Just look at some of the better names out there.

Now, I’m totally with you in being nervous about an incredibly young staff. And yes, there will be mistakes. But this is an outside the box, high risk-high reward situation and I’m all here for it. If it fails, the Fickell’s and the Campbell’s of the world will still be there but I like where this is going. Young coaches who can connect with young players in an incredibly different landscape of life we haven’t seen. And it’s not like these guys don’t know football. They may not have 20+ years of experience like BK, but there’s a good mix of NFL and NCAA experience.

Too often ND has been snakebitten by lack of quality depth. When Alabama or OSU lose a “Kyle Hamilton” to injury, they replace him with another “Kyle Hamilton”. When ND loses Kyle Hamilton to injury, we move a WR to S in-season, move a CB to S, and rotate them with high 3-star/low 4-star players. Not a knock on any of the players as you can see them bust their ass and give it their best but you end up losing out when you come up against the elites. So, we are taking a different approach. It could most certainly backfire but it’s worth trying. There’s no better time to try then right now of we’re being honest.

Sign me up for this. If it doesn’t work then we reset and get our Campbell/Fickell. But for right now, let’s ride.
 

Free Manera

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I get that a lot of schools will just buy their players. But ND probably won’t be explicitly offering NIL deals like that.

So ND still needs to recruit. It might just look different.

Being a good communicator is bigger than ever. They need to explain how ND is good for these kids now and in the future. Get them to see past someone waving an NIL deal. Convince them NIL exists at ND too; they just do it the right way.

You can never develop a roster full of lesser talent to compete in a playoff. The only option is going after top 250 kids. If you just Elston it every year taking projects, it is purgatory. Top 15 every year with no real prospect of winning a playoff game.
 

stpeteirish

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Bell and Early have resumes pretty damn light on power five experience. Early especially. I’d like to see Belk without Early TBH. And a way to keep O’Leary. Maybe Washington on DL and Mason (not Derek) at Lb with O’Leary on special teams?

Spitballing but dumping O’Leary doesn’t look right.
 

chicago51

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I don't recall any coach / coaching staff failing as whole (not talking about failing for a game like McVay in the Superbowl) because they were inexperienced. I recall plenty of inexperience coaches failing. But I would argue they failed because they just weren't good coaches.

Would love to see examples of head coach, coordinators, etc where they failed a job because they just weren't ready and then got another chance and seceded.

With all the talk about ND being bad for inexperienced coaches it's not like any of those coaches really did anything good when they got chances as a more experienced coach.
 

Irish Cedar

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I get that a lot of schools will just buy their players. But ND probably won’t be explicitly offering NIL deals like that.

So ND still needs to recruit. It might just look different.

Being a good communicator is bigger than ever. They need to explain how ND is good for these kids now and in the future. Get them to see past someone waving an NIL deal. Convince them NIL exists at ND too; they just do it the right way.

You can never develop a roster full of lesser talent to compete in a playoff. The only option is going after top 250 kids. If you just Elston it every year taking projects, it is purgatory. Top 15 every year with no real prospect of winning a playoff game.

I agree. I am convinced that Freeman is hiring the defensive position coaches himself and not allowing the DC to just "bring in his guys" because Freeman needs to ensure the DC's "guys" have to be able to recruit at an elite level. So Freeman is going to vet them himself. Maybe Heacock wanted his Iowa State DL coach, but Freeman wasn't convinced of his recruiting ability.

It's possible Stuckey was hired over Shepard based on Freeman and Rees believing Stuckey would be the better recruiter.
 

Irish Cedar

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It has never been less important to hire “great recruiters.” If the pattern holds, virtually all top 100 guys moving forward will be bought not recruited. Same thing might expand into the entire top 300ish and beyond, but I doubt there is as lucrative a financial market for low four and three star players.

Wow. What a bad take.
 
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NDFAN2008

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It has never been less important to hire “great recruiters.” If the pattern holds, virtually all top 100 guys moving forward will be bought not recruited. Same thing might expand into the entire top 300ish and beyond, but I doubt there is as lucrative a financial market for low four and three star players.

Then when you get to college, it’s going to be about how you acquire talent through the transfer portal and how you retain talent if you’re a lower tier school or one that isn’t paying.

How does Belk or any other “hungry recruiter” help ND combat that? I want the best coaches who are good at coaching and developing players. Hiestand is probably going to crush recruiting because he has something to sell and Rees can be the “hungry” guy.

I’m very skeptical that Stuckey, Belk, etc. are going to be any value add. They have no resumes. They got hired because they’re very charismatic and have similar personality type to Freeman. And I do think that Stuckey has all the hallmarks of a good coach, but I don’t think for a second he’s the kind of guy that is going to land Carnell Tate. I think if that happens it will be despite him not because of him.

We’re building the greenest staff in CFB and that’s going to rear it’s ugly head at some point. I wholly supported Lea to DC, Rees to OC, and Freeman to HC. It’s ok to roll the dice on people who you believe in. It’s not OK to build a staff where everyone is 30 and nobody in leadership is a grizzled veteran. Mistakes are going to be made, and I’m increasingly skeptical that we see a consistent product in the fall. If we opened up the bank for Wiggins and retained Elston and got Heacock I would feel 100% different.

This is another horrible take. The 2023 class is number one because of Marcus Freeman not any other coach or any other reason. That’s why no one bolted when Kelly left. According to you then we would be better off with Kelly still. The old coach who didn’t do a very good job of recruiting. It’s been pointed out numerous times over the years Kelly barely interacted with recruits. Also Heacock might be good but if I’m a 18 year old kid a almost 70 year old guy isn’t going to get my juices flowing. Give me all the young guys who will recruit their butts off
 

Grahambo

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What are the rules for defensive analysts? Are they allowed to “coach” during practice? If I’m thinking of the additions of Belk as DC and Washington as DL coach, depending on rules, Nick Lezynski coaching the LBs?

EDIT: NVM, Google can be helpful. He can’t coach so I’m really curious how this will shake out.
 
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stpeteirish

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What are the rules for defensive analysts? Are they allowed to “coach” during practice? If I’m thinking of the additions of Belk as DC and Washington as DL coach, depending on rules, Nick Lezynski coaching the LBs?

No, they cannot coach during practice.

Doesn't appear to be a spot for Nick L beyond analyst, which is technically what he still is. With the staff vacancies he was allowed to function as an assistant but was never formally promoted. No place to put him if we add Washington and Belk.

I'd expect Nick L will leave for an assistants spot somewhere once the staff is finalized.
 

Dale

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It has never been less important to hire “great recruiters.” If the pattern holds, virtually all top 100 guys moving forward will be bought not recruited. Same thing might expand into the entire top 300ish and beyond, but I doubt there is as lucrative a financial market for low four and three star players.

Then when you get to college, it’s going to be about how you acquire talent through the transfer portal and how you retain talent if you’re a lower tier school or one that isn’t paying.

How does Belk or any other “hungry recruiter” help ND combat that? I want the best coaches who are good at coaching and developing players. Hiestand is probably going to crush recruiting because he has something to sell and Rees can be the “hungry” guy.

I’m very skeptical that Stuckey, Belk, etc. are going to be any value add. They have no resumes. They got hired because they’re very charismatic and have similar personality type to Freeman. And I do think that Stuckey has all the hallmarks of a good coach, but I don’t think for a second he’s the kind of guy that is going to land Carnell Tate. I think if that happens it will be despite him not because of him.

We’re building the greenest staff in CFB and that’s going to rear it’s ugly head at some point. I wholly supported Lea to DC, Rees to OC, and Freeman to HC. It’s ok to roll the dice on people who you believe in. It’s not OK to build a staff where everyone is 30 and nobody in leadership is a grizzled veteran. Mistakes are going to be made, and I’m increasingly skeptical that we see a consistent product in the fall. If we opened up the bank for Wiggins and retained Elston and got Heacock I would feel 100% different.

If you’re first part is correct, it wouldn’t matter if it’s Belk, Heacock or Saban as DC we would suck in the future regardless. Not sure how the NIL sky is falling makes Belk a bad hire then.
 

IrishRazor82

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I'd rather have a guy with a couple years experience coaching players than an analyst with no coaching experience. I think it's ok if Nick wants to pursue another opportunity, maybe he'll be back one day.
 

IrishRazor82

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Rees just put together 550 yards of offense against a very good defensive team, and that was with an incredibly thin and mostly inconsistent WR group, a beat up OL, and a statue at QB. Explain to me why we shouldn't have faith in Rees.

He also had one of the most mind numbing 2nd halves I've ever seen. His game plan was great, his adjustments were pee-wee. He got pantsed in the 2nd half.
 

IrishLax

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This is another horrible take. The 2023 class is number one because of Marcus Freeman not any other coach or any other reason. That’s why no one bolted when Kelly left. According to you then we would be better off with Kelly still. The old coach who didn’t do a very good job of recruiting. It’s been pointed out numerous times over the years Kelly barely interacted with recruits. Also Heacock might be good but if I’m a 18 year old kid a almost 70 year old guy isn’t going to get my juices flowing. Give me all the young guys who will recruit their butts off

Nah, that kinda proves my point. You do not need a staff full of “great recruiters.” What you need is a guy like Smart/Saban/Meyer/Freeman at the top who is invested in recruiting; you need an organized recruiting office and recruiting coordinator; and you need something to sell. With NIL, money trumps all of that, but it’s still the recipe.

ND just signed the top OL class in the country *despite* a coach that school successfully neg recruited and was a dead man walking heading up to NSD. Except for a handful of guys, it is totally oversold how much of an impact a position coach makes in recruiting. That’s why churn and burn of top team position coaches rarely impacts recruiting.

The issue is that we are depleting the staff of experience, and CFB is littered with teams that were full of “great recruiters” and who signed great classes and then imploded. And he’s totally redundant to Freeman in a recruiting capacity. Sorry if I’m not over the moon about a guy with one year of true DC experience at a non-power five school. We know he was Plan B, and there are at least a half dozen realistic DC options who had more seasoning and I think would’ve been a better fit.
 

chicago51

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What are the rules for defensive analysts? Are they allowed to “coach” during practice? If I’m thinking of the additions of Belk as DC and Washington as DL coach, depending on rules, Nick Lezynski coaching the LBs?

EDIT: NVM, Google can be helpful. He can’t coach so I’m really curious how this will shake out.

Analyst cannot coach practice, beyond words of encouragement. Analyst can meet with players almost any time outside of practice to watch film and/or go over stuff.
 

Grahambo

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Nah, that kinda proves my point. You do not need a staff full of “great recruiters.” What you need is a guy like Smart/Saban/Meyer/Freeman at the top who is invested in recruiting; you need an organized recruiting office and recruiting coordinator; and you need something to sell. With NIL, money trumps all of that, but it’s still the recipe.

ND just signed the top OL class in the country *despite* a coach that school successfully neg recruited and was a dead man walking heading up to NSD. Except for a handful of guys, it is totally oversold how much of an impact a position coach makes in recruiting. That’s why churn and burn of top team position coaches rarely impacts recruiting.

The issue is that we are depleting the staff of experience, and CFB is littered with teams that were full of “great recruiters” and who signed great classes and then imploded. And he’s totally redundant to Freeman in a recruiting capacity. Sorry if I’m not over the moon about a guy with one year of true DC experience at a non-power five school. We know he was Plan B, and there are at least a half dozen realistic DC options who had more seasoning and I think would’ve been a better fit.

Totally get your POV and I think it’s a healthy outlook. Makes me wonder if Heacock wasn’t interested in changing his language, etc like Freeman wants.
 

Grahambo

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Analyst cannot coach practice, beyond words of encouragement. Analyst can meet with players almost any time outside of practice to watch film and/or go over stuff.

Yeah. I posted then Googled. Really curious how this will shake out.
 

StPaul_Irish

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If you’re first part is correct, it wouldn’t matter if it’s Belk, Heacock or Saban as DC we would suck in the future regardless. Not sure how the NIL sky is falling makes Belk a bad hire then.

Maybe It's happened b4, but Lax is making a lot of Emotional vs logical posts. Maybe it's logical to him, but it's leaving some of us scratching our heads.
 

IrishRazor82

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Just want to hear who he wants in order. Can't just wait until a move happens then bash it, curious who you want and in what order.
 
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