Native American Nicknames

[stonebreakerwasgod]

1) Eminent Domain is the right of the government to take land and redistribute it for the public good/need. That being said, Eminent domain is easily controllable by the people. So far the MAJORITY of the people must agree with the laws or they would be changed. In Oregon, we just passed a law limiting the right of Eminent Domain...ahhhh...there that was easy.

2) No smoking laws only occur on a public basis or for public reasons. And none of that pertains to people being offended by smoke.

Neither of the 2 above items you mentioned were legislated on "views".

You, sir, are nuts!
Eminant domain is another case of society (government) takinbg private property for the good of the state (i.e. greater taxation possibilities). One can legislate all that's desired to control that but all it takes is a few wads on the court to change the law as they see fit!

As far as smoking goes, who the hell gave the government the right to tell someone they can or can't allow smoking in their establishment????? It seems that everyone has a choice to work or go there??? Aren't liberals like you all for free choice ?????????..... Or is that another case of WE (government) know whats best for you.

 

[cclanofirish]

Get some type of concensus from Indians themselves....if they dont have a rpoblem with it, fine. If they do, respect their wishes.

The only thing is, you must get concensus from everyone, not a few that will sway it one way or the other.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

You, sir, are nuts!
Eminant domain is another case of society (government) takinbg private property for the good of the state (i.e. greater taxation possibilities). One can legislate all that's desired to control that but all it takes is a few wads on the court to change the law as they see fit!

As far as smoking goes, who the hell gave the government the right to tell someone they can or can't allow smoking in their establishment????? It seems that everyone has a choice to work or go there??? Aren't liberals like you all for free choice ?????????..... Or is that another case of WE (government) know whats best for you.

Eminent Domain is in the Constitution. The key is that the boundaries are defined at the State level. So I am not nuts about that.

The government has the power to regulate public health issues...and smokers do not have the right to harm/kill other people with their smoke...just as I don't have the right to walk into a restaurant and start spraying everyone with acid.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Eminent Domain is in the Constitution. The key is that the boundaries are defined at the State level. So I am not nuts about that.

The government has the power to regulate public health issues...and smokers do not have the right to harm/kill other people with their smoke...just as I don't have the right to walk into a restaurant and start spraying everyone with acid.

Amen about the acid part!!
I was being facetious about you being nuts. (and I'm truly sorry if it offended). If you can't tell, I'm very big on others dictating personal views to others. That is the thesis for my whole argument.
I do believe if a group takes offense, and the majority of that tribe or group suggests a change, that should weigh alot on what occurs. One could equally make a case for reparations due to slavery (one that I oppose due to punishing people today for sins of the past). I think people today are very sensitive about what occured in our nations history, but two wrongs don't make a right. I guess this is something that will continue to plague those who feel strongly on this issue. It's a shame that so many years later, it still continues to divide a great nation.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

If you can't tell, I'm very big on others dictating personal views to others. That is the thesis for my whole argument.

I don't like it either...which is why I am big on limiting Eminent Domain. AND why I am against smoking in restaurants.

One could equally make a case for reparations due to slavery (one that I oppose due to punishing people today for sins of the past).

Money can't solve everything, which is why it's not right to do it.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

Wheres the line between protest and treason....or is that no longer an acceptable subject in society.

Also, the Patriot Act, while having many flaws and very serious abuses, there are some things in it that are incredibly necessary for the U.S. However, it does need to be reevaluated.

And on the issue of dictators, all I can say is: Hindsight is a bitch.

while i value your opinion, in my view you are missing a few things. Regarding the line between protest and treason, i think we can learn a thing or two from the revolutionary war. Why did we fight that war again?

There is nothing necessary about the partiot act. Securing the homeland is an illusion. Safety anywhere is an illusion. The partirot act sells you a ketchup popcicle and maintains it as a threat of fear. We are the most hated country in the world. Why? lots of reasons but mostly because behind the scenes we control a hell of a lot in this world from finances to politcal power. What happens at the top? you get very lonely and everyone tries to knock you off. We need to be resilient without hindering the ideals of this country's foundation which freedom from religious persecution and the chance to be what you want to be.

I equate having to throw away my toenail clippers and a lighter before boarding a plane to the sense the Patriot act makes. Business as usual on capital hill.

we dont need to go to other countries to fight terroism when our foerign policy breeds it all over the world. We dont need a patriot act, we ned a new approach to foreign policy.

 

[dudexcore]

when are you running for office, goldendomer1977?

 

[Satans Little Helper]

when are you running for office, goldendomer1977?

Although i am not quite old enough i will be running under the green unity reform party. My platform will include:

1. Honoring the treaties signed by the US from 1701-1868 between the US and the Native American Nations.
2. Legalizing all drugs, ending the war on drugs and taking that money and putting it into education. Taxing the drugs of course
3. The Fair Tax . I love that for real.
4. Passing senate resolution of preventing any bush or clinton from ever holding a political office anywhere ever again. This of course grandfathers in all of their children and their future heirs.
5. Forcing all polluting corporations in the free world to cut emmisions by 110% in the next two years. This may have to be handled by my VP Lefty Buglieri
6. And of course reparations for the slaves.
7. And Finally forming an exploratory comittee to have France stricken from the record.....at all times from here on out.

:allhail: Im the wiz

 

[ojo_223]

Although i am not quite old enough i will be running under the green unity reform party. My platform will include:

1. Honoring the treaties signed by the US from 1701-1868 between the US and the Native American Nations.
2. Legalizing all drugs, ending the war on drugs and taking that money and putting it into education. Taxing the drugs of course
3. The Fair Tax . I love that for real.
4. Passing senate resolution of preventing any bush or clinton from ever holding a political office anywhere ever again. This of course grandfathers in all of their children and their future heirs.
5. Forcing all polluting corporations in the free world to cut emmisions by 110% in the next two years. This may have to be handled by my VP Lefty Buglieri
6. And of course reparations for the slaves.
7. And Finally forming an exploratory comittee to have France stricken from the record.....at all times from here on out.

:allhail: Im the wiz

When were the treaties not honored? I believe the wording was something like "until the skies are no longer blue" or something to that effect.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. If you want to know what the biggest sin the white man did to the Native Americans it was giving them whiskey. I live right next to the Navajo Reservation in Arizona and it is crazy. The Navajo's get their "reparation" government check twice a month, There are Indian Health Hospitals that provide free health care to any tribal member, and vehicle registration on a BRAND NEW VEHICLE for a tribal member is in the neighborhood of $20-30. The disgraceful part is that the Navajo, Hopi, and Apache Reservations are "sovreign nations" that are governed by their own elected council members, who do not do anything with all of the government funding that they receive. Anywhere you go in my hometown you will see a Navajo that is stumbling ass drunk, that hasn't appeared to have changed his clothes in days, that will beg you for money. If you do not give them any, then you are "a typical White man that hates Indians". One of my best friends is half Navajo and half Apache, so don't try and play the race card on me. I feel sorry for them, I really do. But this is what their own people have done to them over the last hundred years, not the white man. My friend has an engineering degree from ASU and has a very good job. He is one of the few. Most do not work, or care to. The traditions of the tribes are fading away. You just don't see anyone making Kachina dolls or baskets or rugs anymore. The kids, for the most part, have adopted the hip-hop society or skater culture. If the U.S. government should do anything, they should clean up the dirty politics of these sovereign nations. Too many council members are getting rich at their people's expense.

 

[Vince Young]

[*]The Fair Tax . I love that for real.

WHOOOOOO!!!!!!! Yeah baby!!! The FairTax! Rock on!

I HAVE to pimp that here, and this will probably be my one and only on-topic contribution to the political conversations on here. It's a national retail sales tax to replace the federal income tax, with a monthly rebate to pay back the taxes on the neccessities you buy each month for you and your family. And it's revenue neutral. Go to http://www.fairtax.org to learn more, or go to your local bookstore and pick up "The FairTax Book" by Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder. Trust me, they'll have it. It hit #1 on the New York Times bestseller list when it came out last year, so trust me: they'll have it.

And that's it. I won't say another word on it, and I'm not interested in debating it or defending it. But the aforementioned website will give you plenty of opportunities to do both, if you're so inclined.

Goldendomer1977, rep points for you, just for supporting the FairTax.

(Edit: drat. It won't let me. I'll have to remember that I owe you reps.)

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

If you want to know what the biggest sin the white man did to the Native Americans it was giving them whiskey.

No, it was killing 90% of them...most in cold blood.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

[*]The Fair Tax . I love that for real.

No such thing...honestly, no tax is truly fair.

Percentage? Lump sum? Per head charge?

No tax is "fair"...it just is what it is.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

When were the treaties not honored? I believe the wording was something like "until the skies are no longer blue" or something to that effect.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. If you want to know what the biggest sin the white man did to the Native Americans it was giving them whiskey. I live right next to the Navajo Reservation in Arizona and it is crazy. The Navajo's get their "reparation" government check twice a month, There are Indian Health Hospitals that provide free health care to any tribal member, and vehicle registration on a BRAND NEW VEHICLE for a tribal member is in the neighborhood of $20-30. The disgraceful part is that the Navajo, Hopi, and Apache Reservations are "sovreign nations" that are governed by their own elected council members, who do not do anything with all of the government funding that they receive. Anywhere you go in my hometown you will see a Navajo that is stumbling ass drunk, that hasn't appeared to have changed his clothes in days, that will beg you for money. If you do not give them any, then you are "a typical White man that hates Indians". One of my best friends is half Navajo and half Apache, so don't try and play the race card on me. I feel sorry for them, I really do. But this is what their own people have done to them over the last hundred years, not the white man. My friend has an engineering degree from ASU and has a very good job. He is one of the few. Most do not work, or care to. The traditions of the tribes are fading away. You just don't see anyone making Kachina dolls or baskets or rugs anymore. The kids, for the most part, have adopted the hip-hop society or skater culture. If the U.S. government should do anything, they should clean up the dirty politics of these sovereign nations. Too many council members are getting rich at their people's expense.

every one was broken. Most if not all of them were worded that the indians would give up this much land for this amount of stuff. To the indians that was it. Then the government would come back and ask for more. The indians would refuse and war would erupt. This was similar for most of the large land dwelling tribes. Any somewhat non-biased history of the subject would tell you su ch. The bigeset one is the treaty 1868 between the US and the SOuix and it still has not been solved. THere are still legal battles about it and the Souix are still not recognized by the US. So they wont deal with the lawsuits to this day.

I ask you though. Dirty politics? They should not even have to do such. They should be able to live their culture but after the "american culturization" project where all indians put in a reservations were forced to change their names to CHristian ones and learn to live "civily" . Why are their traditions fading away. YOu bring up good but misunderstood points. Why do most people succumb to drugs and alcohol? Becuase there seems to be no way out. There are numerous tribes that have been allowed casinos and other such money making abilities and they are now able to provide for themsleves. i wouldguess to think that there are no such places on the Arizona reservations.

AS far as the US government steppigng in and once afgain forcing them to fix things. I hope that dont. The nations should do it themselves bu tbe allowed the opportunity that others have such as gambling or at least bingo houses. The US government just chooses who can and cant.

Get your facts right. I see stumbling drunks and people who dont want to work either daily. I think a few of them are actually in congress. Your attitude about the issue is poor.

Answer me this though. Who took their land, destroyed their cultutre, then did not allow them to practice their culture, forced them into christian schools with christian names to adopt christian values at the point of a gun. What would you have done?

If you dont think this this the way it iwas, then you missing some major facts and evidence to the contrary. Also Obviuously you have seen the reservation lands. They were pretty much decided by the US goverment to be the lest useful and worthless lands in the country. Just ask the Oglagla on Pine Ridge and Rosebud. Until Uranium was discoverd there then the US came in and took that land as well while still not recognizing them as a soverign nation.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

No such thing...honestly, no tax is truly fair.

Percentage? Lump sum? Per head charge?

No tax is "fair"...it just is what it is.

Honestly if we must pay taxes, this isthe way to go. No more witholding, you walk with 100% of your check. You simply pay 23% sales tax on retail items. This also includes ending the taxing of coporations for materials, shipping, etc... so the prices will come down by 23-25% anyway in the end the prices are projected to stay the same because there are no embedded taxed for the companies selling the products.

Then by taxing the consumer if you want to spend 15,000,000 on a house you will pay3,450,000 in taxes. If you wan to by a 100,000 house you pay 23,000 in taxes. IT is fair in the snse that it taxes what you purchase rather than what you make so people who dont make a lot of money dont pay a lot in taxes by buying cheaper goods. Those with millions of dollars on hand will pay mroe. It will also make th IRS obsolete Which is probably other than the FBi the biggest strongarm in the country.

Witholding screws all of us. THe gvernement makes it seem like they are doing us a favor.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

When were the treaties not honored? I believe the wording was something like "until the skies are no longer blue" or something to that effect.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. If you want to know what the biggest sin the white man did to the Native Americans it was giving them whiskey. I live right next to the Navajo Reservation in Arizona and it is crazy. The Navajo's get their "reparation" government check twice a month, There are Indian Health Hospitals that provide free health care to any tribal member, and vehicle registration on a BRAND NEW VEHICLE for a tribal member is in the neighborhood of $20-30. The disgraceful part is that the Navajo, Hopi, and Apache Reservations are "sovreign nations" that are governed by their own elected council members, who do not do anything with all of the government funding that they receive. Anywhere you go in my hometown you will see a Navajo that is stumbling ass drunk, that hasn't appeared to have changed his clothes in days, that will beg you for money. If you do not give them any, then you are "a typical White man that hates Indians". One of my best friends is half Navajo and half Apache, so don't try and play the race card on me. I feel sorry for them, I really do. But this is what their own people have done to them over the last hundred years, not the white man. My friend has an engineering degree from ASU and has a very good job. He is one of the few. Most do not work, or care to. The traditions of the tribes are fading away. You just don't see anyone making Kachina dolls or baskets or rugs anymore. The kids, for the most part, have adopted the hip-hop society or skater culture. If the U.S. government should do anything, they should clean up the dirty politics of these sovereign nations. Too many council members are getting rich at their people's expense.

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/nahealth/nabroken.pdf

this document from 2004 clearly shows that the US governement is responsible for recognized nations healthcare. Yoou will find ample evidence that the US government is not doing what he y agreeded to regarding helathcare. if you wish i can provide more.

Also I forgot about the Black Hills lawsuit. It was found to be full of gold. so the governement renegged on the treaty of 1868 as well and seized the Black Hills just a little bit after. As a results the souix did go to court and were awarded 17 million dollars for the land that has been worht over 544 million in gold alone. Rather than collect that money tha is now sitting in a bank drawing interset for the tribe, they are witholding to pursue a legal way of getting thier land back and will gladly give back the 250 million in the bank as of today. If this does not show you what hhe true spirit of the Souix and other Native americans are then i cant help you

 

[Satans Little Helper]

No, it was killing 90% of them...most in cold blood.

ojo needs to read "bury my heart at wounded knee" I gaurantee you will either cry trying to finish it or throw it down in disgust. It was abominable they way that it happened. I will not say that it would not have happened had it been anyone else, but ....just read the book.


This book alone will provide you will ample examples of broken treaties or promises and the Native Americans called them.

 

[ojo_223]

Look, I'm not saying that there weren't attrocities, or that the government handled anything fairly. (Do they ever?) Look at what the Spaniards did to the Aztecs. The Apaches and Comanches were not kind to white frontiersmen, either. Whole families were slaughtered and children scalped. Is that okay? I don't think so. It was a bad time and both sides were ruthless. It was a war, and wars are never pretty. The White Mountain Apache tribe here has some of the best land in Arizona, by the way. And a casino, as well as the best ski resort in the state. It is my favorite place to go for fishing and skiing. I just don't see the profits being distributed to the WHOLE tribe. Yes, it is true that you see drunks and homeless people of all colors, races, etc. I am just saying that I see it a lot more common among the Native Americans here. It is not a generalization, either, as I have several co-workers who do just fine. One is a Hopi that still makes traditional baskets with his own two hands. I am just saying that at some point, people have got to want to help themselves and not expect EVERYTHING to be handed to them. Maybe I am narrow minded. Sorry to offend you.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

Look, I'm not saying that there weren't attrocities, or that the government handled anything fairly. (Do they ever?) Look at what the Spaniards did to the Aztecs. The Apaches and Comanches were not kind to white frontiersmen, either. Whole families were slaughtered and children scalped. Is that okay? I don't think so. It was a bad time and both sides were ruthless. It was a war, and wars are never pretty. The White Mountain Apache tribe here has some of the best land in Arizona, by the way. And a casino, as well as the best ski resort in the state. It is my favorite place to go for fishing and skiing. I just don't see the profits being distributed to the WHOLE tribe. Yes, it is true that you see drunks and homeless people of all colors, races, etc. I am just saying that I see it a lot more common among the Native Americans here. It is not a generalization, either, as I have several co-workers who do just fine. One is a Hopi that still makes traditional baskets with his own two hands. I am just saying that at some point, people have got to want to help themselves and not expect EVERYTHING to be handed to them. Maybe I am narrow minded. Sorry to offend you.

no offesne but it was narrow minded. You know who started the scalping tradition for lack of better word? The spaniards. The apaches and comanches were two of the most warlike nations present in the country and they did not take kindly to any squatter, white or not. they fought with every one.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Honestly if we must pay taxes, this isthe way to go. No more witholding, you walk with 100% of your check. You simply pay 23% sales tax on retail items. This also includes ending the taxing of coporations for materials, shipping, etc... so the prices will come down by 23-25% anyway in the end the prices are projected to stay the same because there are no embedded taxed for the companies selling the products.

No...it will kill consumer spending...it really will.

There is no FAIR way to tax.

However, by having an even distribution of taxes income, sales, property, etc...you smooth out revenue flows for the government and avoid wild swings in spending and taxation.

I have lived in Oregon for the last decade...the biggest problem they have with their taxation scheme is that 87% comes FROM ONE SOURCE. That causes HUGE volatility and disruption of services.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

No...it will kill consumer spending...it really will.

There is no FAIR way to tax.

However, by having an even distribution of taxes income, sales, property, etc...you smooth out revenue flows for the government and avoid wild swings in spending and taxation.

I have lived in Oregon for the last decade...the biggest problem they have with their taxation scheme is that 87% comes FROM ONE SOURCE. That causes HUGE volatility and disruption of services.

i dont see how that will cause spending to stop. The embedded takes will disappear dropping todays prices by approximately 23-25% due to competetion meaning with the ssales tax added they will be equal roughly. Also the taxes will be collected from every business that provides a service. that is hardly one place. This also forces the drug smugglers, gun runners, welfare, and even the homeless to pay taxes. Something that no plan yet will have accomplished.

Without taxation in the US for manufacturing goods, more companies will build here generating jobs. Ex. Daimler Chrysler. The merger took over three years and billions of dollars to figure out the tax implications for a HQ in US versus Germany. In the end the taxes in the US were too high and they set up their huge HQ in Germany. More an more companies are fleeing our borders for lower tax brackets in other countries. Also it has been figured that during tax season over 1.5 billion hours were wasted inthis country along with over 2.5 billion dollars for filing the taxes or having accountants do them.

I see it as a much better system than witholding anyway. Plus say good by to the IRS messing with John Q public. The vendors will be the ones to handle the taxes.

Also there will be a rebate check every month for money spent on necesities of life. Please read the book if you have not. it is a short read and you can read it in one sitting.

Both parties are actually getting behind it to a degree and i would not be surprised if it is not a debate issue in the next few elections.

regarding dispruption of services, the government will set up a kind of fair tax social security account where it will only distribute what it needs based on the budget agreed to by the congress and the president. The remainder will be set aside as a surplus. Its not like we arent operating on a deficit right now anyway. I believe it is the biggest it has ever been and things are running somewhat ok.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

i dont see how that will cause spending to stop. The embedded takes will disappear dropping todays prices by approximately 23-25% due to competetion meaning with the ssales tax added they will be equal roughly.

The "embedded" taxes you speak of don't exist at that level... Corporations pay taxes on PROFITS not REVENUE. Let me give you an example.

Ford Motor during the HEIGHT of the 2000 boom made about 5.6% PROFIT. So they paid Corporate taxes of 35% on those profits. http://www.smbiz.com/sbrl001.html

So, let's assume Ford sells a car for 20,000. Now, that car averages 5.6% profit. That's about $1,120 in profit. Taxes due on that sale would be approximately $390. So part of the price includes $390. If Ford paid NO TAXES ON PROFITS the car would cost $19,610.

Now, if we had a Federal Sales tax of ONLY 5% and Ford reduced the price of the car for the lack of Fed taxes, the cost of the car would be:
$19,610 * 1.05 = $20,590.

If I used your example of 25% sales tax the car would cost: $24,512.

So, while I applaud your thoughts on the matter, your math needs SERIOUS work.

Without taxation in the US for manufacturing goods, more companies will build here generating jobs. Ex. Daimler Chrysler.

Sorry many, but there are taxes in every country on all kinds of stuff...companies pay more in most other countries.

The reason Daimler Chrysler moved to Germany is that the leaders of Daimler LIED TO THE STOCKHOLDERS. The memos were released. And they showed that they had a plan to remove the American management within 1 year. It was NOT a MERGER...it was a TAKEOVER. I am keenly aware of how this went down.

 

[irishnd31]

Go Tribe!!!!

 

[Satans Little Helper]

i dont see how that will cause spending to stop. The embedded takes will disappear dropping todays prices by approximately 23-25% due to competetion meaning with the ssales tax added they will be equal roughly. Also the taxes will be collected from every business that provides a service. that is hardly one place. This also forces the drug smugglers, gun runners, welfare, and even the homeless to pay taxes. Something that no plan yet will have accomplished.

Without taxation in the US for manufacturing goods, more companies will build here generating jobs. Ex. Daimler Chrysler. The merger took over three years and billions of dollars to figure out the tax implications for a HQ in US versus Germany. In the end the taxes in the US were too high and they set up their huge HQ in Germany. More an more companies are fleeing our borders for lower tax brackets in other countries. Also it has been figured that during tax season over 1.5 billion hours were wasted inthis country along with over 2.5 billion dollars for filing the taxes or having accountants do them.

I see it as a much better system than witholding anyway. Plus say good by to the IRS messing with John Q public. The vendors will be the ones to handle the taxes.

Also there will be a rebate check every month for money spent on necesities of life. Please read the book if you have not. it is a short read and you can read it in one sitting.

Both parties are actually getting behind it to a degree and i would not be surprised if it is not a debate issue in the next few elections.

regarding dispruption of services, the government will set up a kind of fair tax social security account where it will only distribute what it needs based on the budget agreed to by the congress and the president. The remainder will be set aside as a surplus. Its not like we arent operating on a deficit right now anyway. I believe it is the biggest it has ever been and things are running somewhat ok.

I look at it this way too.

Say you make $3,000 per month before witholding. average witholding tax is 30-40%.
that is 900-1200 per month in taxes. That is $1800-2100/mo left over for spending. I have to account for insurance and IRAs savings and blah.....so that leaves me with about 1000per month for spending bills and food etc. I have a budget that is set for food, clothing etc. for what is left after all this. Whatever goods or services i buy i am paying state taxes on top of that.

With the fair tax i take home all $3,000 per month. I now have that budget i have been used to for so long and still buy the same goods and serviced for the $1000 left over under witholding. But now, i can spend more or save depending on what i want. with the fair tax i will not be spending any more out of pocket ( roughly) due to the new method of taxation on that $1000.

Now we see that with the 900-1200 i have left over, what to do? What to do? Some will spend some will save. If i know americans they will spend 30-40% of this left over money in a hurry. Also there will be no capital gains taxes or IRA taxes or wthdrawling taxes. Plus think about all the tourists tha come here and dont pay taxes. now they will pay as well.

The only thing i see is that it will make people who cant afford a BMW buy a chevy instead. or something to that effect.

The point is we now have more freedom to choose what to do with out hard earned money rather than have the government sit on our money all year and refund it after they and not us have accrued the interest on it. this to me is the most satisfying thing.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

The "embedded" taxes you speak of don't exist at that level... Corporations pay taxes on PROFITS not REVENUE. Let me give you an example.

Ford Motor during the HEIGHT of the 2000 boom made about 5.6% PROFIT. So they paid Corporate taxes of 35% on those profits. http://www.smbiz.com/sbrl001.html

So, let's assume Ford sells a car for 20,000. Now, that car averages 5.6% profit. That's about $1,120 in profit. Taxes due on that sale would be approximately $390. So part of the price includes $390. If Ford paid NO TAXES ON PROFITS the car would cost $19,610.

Now, if we had a Federal Sales tax of ONLY 5% and Ford reduced the price of the car for the lack of Fed taxes, the cost of the car would be:
$19,610 * 1.05 = $20,590.

If I used your example of 25% sales tax the car would cost: $24,512.

So, while I applaud your thoughts on the matter, your math needs SERIOUS work.



Sorry many, but there are taxes in every country on all kinds of stuff...companies pay more in most other countries.

The reason Daimler Chrysler moved to Germany is that the leaders of Daimler LIED TO THE STOCKHOLDERS. The memos were released. And they showed that they had a plan to remove the American management within 1 year. It was NOT a MERGER...it was a TAKEOVER. I am keenly aware of how this went down.

I was under the assumption that all companies pay taxes to acquire materials for making products. For example Ford would have to aquire the plastics, metal, elctric parts, cpu parts, tires, alloy for the wheels,etc. They would have purchased those parts from another vendor makes thsoe who would in turn have paid an entity to get their raw materials. ATaxes would have been exchanged under each of those circumstances. Not to mention internarional tarrifs and state and federal taxes. Transportationof thos e materials as well as storage, would also play a role dependng on the product. All in all i will not argue that those "embedded" taxes get passed on to the consumer. But they are there. and they acoount for 23-25% of the product from ram material to finished product depending on the product. these areno my numbers but several economists who worked with the senator who wrote the book fiar tax.

Regading the takeover of DC, i was ignorant of that situation,from what i read they used the tax issue as the reason. i do believe that germany's tax system is lower than ours, they have variable tax rate which is not too good either but it fluxuates with the market i believe.

Also taxes or tarrifs or whatever are high in the US. Container ships, overseas transporation, etc all use out of country registries for their ships due to taxing by the USA. I know this because i live in Charleston and several of my firends are longshoreman. This will disapear as well under the fair tax law.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I look at it this way too.

Say you make $3,000 per month before witholding. average witholding tax is 30-40%.
that is 900-1200 per month in taxes. That is $1800-2100/mo left over for spending. I have to account for insurance and IRAs savings and blah.....so that leaves me with about 1000per month for spending bills and food etc. I have a budget that is set for food, clothing etc. for what is left after all this. Whatever goods or services i buy i am paying state taxes on top of that.

Your numbers are a bit off.

Withholding is irrelevant, true taxation is everything.

In 2005, the wife and I pulled down around $130,000. Our TRUE rate of taxation was 12%. We had a small house, one kid, and some student loans. 12%...another 7% for State taxes. That 12% did not count FICA, etc. Even then I was paying 20% to the Feds.

If you impose a sales tax it will be terribly regressive since people with incomes that get completely spent out of necessity with pay tax on everything...while the "rich" will find ways to not spend it on goods in the US. OR they will simply save far more and build in loopholes. That is how it works.

This is not a conspiracy theory, this is just how it works.

There is NO SUCH THING AS A FAIR TAX. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

Why should I be taxed on my spending? What in the hell is fair about that? I am keeping the economy running by spending...now you want to INCREASE my taxes???????

Which this will in the worst way.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

Your numbers are a bit off.

Withholding is irrelevant, true taxation is everything.

In 2005, the wife and I pulled down around $130,000. Our TRUE rate of taxation was 12%. We had a small house, one kid, and some student loans. 12%...another 7% for State taxes. That 12% did not count FICA, etc. Even then I was paying 20% to the Feds.

If you impose a sales tax it will be terribly regressive since people with incomes that get completely spent out of necessity with pay tax on everything...while the "rich" will find ways to not spend it on goods in the US. OR they will simply save far more and build in loopholes. That is how it works.

This is not a conspiracy theory, this is just how it works.

There is NO SUCH THING AS A FAIR TAX. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

Why should I be taxed on my spending? What in the hell is fair about that? I am keeping the economy running by spending...now you want to INCREASE my taxes???????

Which this will in the worst way.

I am not following your post. so you paid 39% taxes? Did you get money back at the end of tax season? If so what did you do with it?

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I was under the assumption that all companies pay taxes to acquire materials for making products.

Christ no. All Materials that are purchsed to make a Prodcut are TAX DEDUCTIBLE.

Headcount, materials, shipping...all TAX DEDUCTIBLE.

For example Ford would have to aquire the plastics, metal, elctric parts, cpu parts, tires, alloy for the wheels,etc. They would have purchased those parts from another vendor makes thsoe who would in turn have paid an entity to get their raw materials. ATaxes would have been exchanged under each of those circumstances.

Not in the USA, no. In Canada, yes.

Not to mention internarional tarrifs and state and federal taxes.

You would be SHOCKED at what is exempted... MOST THINGS.

In only know this because I spent the last 10 years working for a manufacturing company with over $10Billion in spending every year...including more than a couple Billion in Materials and Equipment spending.

Also taxes or tarrifs or whatever are high in the US. Container ships, overseas transporation, etc all use out of country registries for their ships due to taxing by the USA. I know this because i live in Charleston and several of my firends are longshoreman. This will disapear as well under the fair tax law.

Again, you would be shocked...

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I am not following your post. so you paid 39% taxes? Did you get money back at the end of tax season? If so what did you do with it?

I paid 20% to the feds (including FICA, etc)...7% to the state.

Since this discussion is only about Fed Taxes: 20%.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

I am not following your post. so you paid 39% taxes? Did you get money back at the end of tax season? If so what did you do with it?

so at worst the people who dont pay taxes finally will including drug dealers, gun runners black market.. tourists, illegal aliens.... Do you not see the huge taxable market that makes.

you are missing the point. The cost of a pack of gum is $1.00. after the embedded taxes are removed from it that reduces the price by say 22% ( not my numbers mind you but economists) meaning the gum now costs .78 cents. The new sales tax is tax on the .78 not the dollar meaning that pack of gum now costs 95 cents ( 23% of 78 cents is 17 cents) The pack of gum costs less and the government has its money. how is that costing you more?

 

[Satans Little Helper]

I paid 20% to the feds (including FICA, etc)...7% to the state.

Since this discussion is only about Fed Taxes: 20%.

wow thats all. i pay 34% and my wife and i make less than yall.