My Opinion on the state of Notre Dame

tommyIRISH23 · Sep 13, 2010

I have tried to stay away from this board after the loss, and will not be watching ESPN until the next victory because losses like this actually physically hurt me. But I have had a ton of time to reflect, and after rewatching most of the game I have came to these conclusions.

1. Dayne is the heart of this team. They are night and day with and without him. We are in trouble if he goes down.

2. We PROBABLY would have won if he played the whole game.

3. We have the horses on offense to be good/very good.

4. We have 3, maybe 4, elite players on defense. After them, the talent drop off is huge, and evident, which is very exploitable. I don't think what Diaco/Kelly do with our defense will matter, we will have holes until we bring players in who are up to par with the big boys. Speed will kill us.

5. I'd expect to see some upperclassmen losing positions to the younger guys as the season goes on.

We are in a lot better position then we were when Weis got here. But we are far from complete. Like many of you said there is no way Kelly can fix our problems in 1 off season. I think we will get better each year, and for sure each week. 8-9 wins seems attainable, and if we can knock off SC in November, which is def possible, we should kill it with our recruits.

Defense needs to be a big focus in recruiting. Its disheartening.

IrishInColumbus · Sep 13, 2010

I really think we will beat Southern Cal this year. Lane Kiffin deserves nothing less than a beatdown.

Bogtrotter07 · Sep 13, 2010

4. We have 3, maybe 4, elite players on defense. After them, the talent drop off is huge, and evident, which is very exploitable. I don't think what Diaco/Kelly do with our defense will matter, we will have holes until we bring players in who are up to par with the big boys. Speed will kill us.

Honestly, I don't see it. I think all aspects of our defense have played well. If you are talking about Michigan, Denard will shred anyone until he gets hurt; Purdue is pretty good and we still lost three players, and played well.

RDU Irish · Sep 13, 2010

I think we have more talent and depth on defense than we have seen for a very long time. Our starting D-line, I think, will be highly regarded by mid-year and it looks like a few backups are coming on. Our LBs have a great mix of experience and youth. Brian Smith is the only one I get frustrated with and I think a large part of his problem is speed. Our top three DBs are stout (Gray, Walls, Blanton) and Slaughter, Smith, Motta at safety have me pretty pumped up as well.

Other than Smith, I don't think there is a single player with below average speed for their position. Robinson is going to exploit a lot of people this year and I don't think that is a fair gauge of our defense. Even so, we did keep him close to 50% passing and something like 4 of 13 on third down attempts.

I can't wait to see how we do against Michigan State. I think our defense will do similar damage as we did vs. Purdue.

Bogtrotter07 · Sep 13, 2010

Also, about our defense: Safeties Harrison Smith and Zeke Motta deserved the game ball. They had to be point on coverage playing mostly man because of Derek Roback’s transfer and Dan McCarthy’s injury. ND couldn’t even play a nickel package, because of the extra safety required in that package. Smith and Motta had to play every snap!

Also, for a little more perspective: Despite essentially conceding 8 of 9 first half possessions the Irish still outgained Michigan 535 to 532.

Old Man Mike · Sep 13, 2010

I believe that Kelly and staff have done an amazing job tinkering together both sides of the ball, given the untried pieces that the former regime left them. Here's a staff facing something similar to what Rodriguez got into when he went to Michigan with a team roster filled with athletes who although good talents, didn't fit what he was trying to do. Well, three years later it appears that he's gotten there. Kelly looks like HE'S gotten 90% of the way there in just two months!! As Momma Lynch would say: we are truly blessed.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I've been placing the current recruiting class and our freshmen on paper, positionally, and looking forward three years to what they would look like as juniors and seniors: looks pretty awesome my friends, and brilliantly two-deep. As Aaron Lynch says: we gunna be beast!!------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Michigan game tells me that if we can keep Crist on the field, we'll beat most of our opponents this year and get nothing but better year after year into the future. The only reasons we lost to UM were the injury to Crist and the coming-out-party of a freak athlete. I'd call that pretty bad luck and we almost pulled it out anyway. Glass more than half full.

ACamp1900 · Sep 13, 2010

My opinion... we are 17-22 since Quinn and Co. got blasted out of the Sugar Bowl...

and we have this record while the talent (albeit young for the majority of this time) has been at a level that ND has not seen in quite some time... and they still can't get it done...

Things are pointing to the fact that BK is turning a corner, but until the corner is turned it will be ND continuing to spin their wheels... all while ND has more talent than they have had in many a year.

'frustration' about covers it.

tommyIRISH23 · Sep 13, 2010

RDU Irish said:
I think we have more talent and depth on defense than we have seen for a very long time. Our starting D-line, I think, will be highly regarded by mid-year and it looks like a few backups are coming on. Our LBs have a great mix of experience and youth. Brian Smith is the only one I get frustrated with and I think a large part of his problem is speed. Our top three DBs are stout (Gray, Walls, Blanton) and Slaughter, Smith, Motta at safety have me pretty pumped up as well.

Other than Smith, I don't think there is a single player with below average speed for their position. Robinson is going to exploit a lot of people this year and I don't think that is a fair gauge of our defense. Even so, we did keep him close to 50% passing and something like 4 of 13 on third down attempts.

I can't wait to see how we do against Michigan State. I think our defense will do similar damage as we did vs. Purdue.

Speed is just part of the package of being elite. Look at the bama defense, and SC defenses of a few years ago. They had talent all over the field. But they had 2 elite players in each area (Dline, LB, Secondary). All eleven do not have to be NFL ready, but all of the great defenses have 4-6 guys who are fluid, and can adapt to the play as its happening, they just have the feel/sense or anticipation and always happen to be at the right place/right time. We have 1 guy thats 100% fits that mold, and thats Manti Teo.

I am not saying we do not have talent, we do for sure. But talent can only get you so far, speed is only as good as the mind controling it. If we put husain bolt in our secondary, would he be good? No. I think we had a lot of talent come in, but for the juniors and seniors, I think that talent, sadly, wasted away because of the lack of development from the previous staff.

We will be a good team this year..8-9 wins is easily attainable. Speed will kill us, but luckily we do not square off with anyone with insane speed again. We are, maybe, 4-5 players from being elite. The offense is there, the defense just has to catch up. Our recruiting is filling those gaps, but a year or two will be needed to prepare them. 2012 could be a special year.

theclassickiller · Sep 13, 2010

Bogtrotter07 said:
Honestly, I don't see it. I think all aspects of our defense have played well. If you are talking about Michigan, Denard will shred anyone until he gets hurt; Purdue is pretty good and we still lost three players, and played well.

Agree 100%. Our defense is stout. It's not on the level of our offense just yet, but they are a very good unit.

Rewatch the game and watch when we got beat on defense. It was when our guys were gassed. They were on the field 10 minutes longer than the offense was and Lord knows defense is 10x more tiring than offense. If my math is correct that means the defense played...

100 minute-times harder than the offense! A very convincing unit of measure, I know.

But honestly, Steven Hawking level math aside, they were very good and our defensive plan actually worked to perfection when the defense was rested. Unfortunately, that was only half of the game.

Don't believe me? Watch the second half and show me ONE dominant series from Michigan (excluding the last drive, which was still far from dominant). Check the stats. Michigan was nothing more than average when we got out of damage control mode.

theclassickiller · Sep 13, 2010

tommyIRISH23 said:
I am not saying we do not have talent, we do for sure. But talent can only get you so far, speed is only as good as the mind controling it. If we put husain bolt in our secondary, would he be good? No. I think we had a lot of talent come in, but for the juniors and seniors, I think that talent, sadly, wasted away because of the lack of development from the previous staff.

bingo...

tommyIRISH23 · Sep 13, 2010

theclassickiller said:
bingo...

Yeah its ashame. Darrin Walls comes to mind for me, he will be at best average this year, but you can see that if he had another year or two to be coached he has the potential to be great.

We may surprise some people next year too. I can't imagine year 2 of Kelly having the little growing/transition pain we had against Michigan.

dre1919 · Sep 13, 2010

Keep in mind guys:

Michigan had a player go for 500 yards of individual offense (which was a record for them...and they have as long a history as we have). Even with that, they STILL only beat us by four points AND we had a shot to win at the end of the game. Say what you will about the "state of ND" right now, but that's pretty impressive for ANY team. How many other teams in the country could have given one dynamic player 500 yards by himself and still got the result we did? Think about if Michigan didn't have Robinson in the game like we did with Crist? How much would we have clubbed Michigan down by? The fact is, their skill position players are not scary in the least and ALL THEY HAVE is Robinson (since Forcier wasn't even held in high enough regard anymore to insert for a few plays when Robinson was shook up). I'd say that speaks volumes about where we "are" versus another major program like UM.

GDomer09 · Sep 13, 2010

I'm impressed as hell with this team & our results thus far. Still new coach, still new offense & defense, & new QB. Not impressed with our backup QB's but what do you do. Definitly would have won that game with Crist in. Denard is a freak!!! I usually hate Michigan players, but I love me some freaks...

Easton Pa ND Fan · Sep 13, 2010

Agree, the glass is more than half full...

Agree, the glass is more than half full...

Old Man Mike said:
I believe that Kelly and staff have done an amazing job tinkering together both sides of the ball, given the untried pieces that the former regime left them. Here's a staff facing something similar to what Rodriguez got into when he went to Michigan with a team roster filled with athletes who although good talents, didn't fit what he was trying to do. Well, three years later it appears that he's gotten there. Kelly looks like HE'S gotten 90% of the way there in just two months!! As Momma Lynch would say: we are truly blessed.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I've been placing the current recruiting class and our freshmen on paper, positionally, and looking forward three years to what they would look like as juniors and seniors: looks pretty awesome my friends, and brilliantly two-deep. As Aaron Lynch says: we gunna be beast!!------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The Michigan game tells me that if we can keep Crist on the field, we'll beat most of our opponents this year and get nothing but better year after year into the future. The only reasons we lost to UM were the injury to Crist and the coming-out-party of a freak athlete. I'd call that pretty bad luck and we almost pulled it out anyway. Glass more than half full.

Even with Crist out of the game and the two frosh QBs
overthrowing/being intercepted (which novice QBs do)
on critical plays, the Irish had more yardage and lost
by just four points.

Even with Crist overthrowing what should have been a float
pass to his taller, higher jumping receivers, the game
was not decided until that final play.

We don't have to wait till next year...

The Irish are that good NOW!

aaronb · Sep 13, 2010

I would like to see Kelly pick a backup QB, and spend some energy getting that guy to ready to play.

My gut is it will be Tommy Rees. He was #2 going in, and probably has the higher upside. Whomever it is, get the guy some snaps this week and put in a small offensive package that the guy can execute.

Dayne Crist is an injury risk until he proves otherwise. Time to COA's.

tommyIRISH23 · Sep 13, 2010

Easton Pa ND Fan said:
Even with Crist out of the game and the two frosh QBs
overthrowing/being intercepted (which novice QBs do)
on critical plays, the Irish had more yardage and lost
by just four points.

Even with Crist overthrowing what should have been a float
pass to his taller, higher jumping receivers, the game
was not decided until that final play.

We don't have to wait till next year...

The Irish are that good NOW!

Honestly, I understand the stats, and agree that we are a solid team. But stats do not win BCS bowls. I am tired of trying to rationalize a loss with impressive statistics, or finding positives in a loss. I want wins, I hate moral victories. I'd rather nitpick for negatives in a win, then pride myself on positives in a loss.

I know its a young team, new staff, new scheme...I am just so frustrated with losing, and cannot get excited over moral/statistical victories anymore.

ACamp1900 · Sep 13, 2010

tommyIRISH23 said:
Honestly, I understand the stats, and agree that we are a solid team. But stats do not win BCS bowls. I am tired of trying to rationalize a loss with impressive statistics, or finding positives in a loss. I want wins, I hate moral victories. I'd rather nitpick for negatives in a win, then pride myself on positives in a loss.

I know its a young team, new staff, new scheme...I am just so frustrated with losing, and cannot get excited over moral/statistical victories anymore.

.

theclassickiller · Sep 13, 2010

ACamp1900 said:
.

?

ACamp1900 · Sep 13, 2010

theclassickiller said:
?

I agreed with him.

IrishJayhawk · Sep 13, 2010

ACamp1900 said:
I agreed with him.

!

mgriff · Sep 13, 2010

If we are young, just think how young Michigan is. :cannibal:

theclassickiller · Sep 13, 2010

mgriff said:
If we are young, just think how young Michigan is.

Actually Michigan has 13 of 22 starting positions occupied by upperclassmen and only 3 redshirt freshmen starting (no true freshman).

We also have 13 of 22 starting positions filled by upperclassmen (I accounted for the redshirts which we technically didn't do, but who would be eligible for a 5th year):
Allen, Floyd, Rudolph, Dever, Stewart, Robinson on offense,
Johnson, Williams, Neal, Fleming, Gray, Walls, Smith on defense.

And like Michigan, we also only have 3 freshmen (one of which is actually a true freshman):
Jones, Martin on offense,
Calabrese on defense.

So technically you could say we were one year younger than they were. Both teams were in the same position experience-wise, but the experience was in different positions.

Now I know some people will come back with "Oh but wait, Crist is a junior!"

Read what I wrote in the parentheses above... I know that, but he's the same as a redshirted sophomore on Michigan. :idea:

irishtrain · Sep 14, 2010

Listening to Kelly after the game makes it feel like the program is in good shape. This guys knows whats about to happen with his team. They just dont know how to win yet and that comes after selling out to the concept of the coach and learning your position. I think they've come along way pretty fast and if they continue their quest they will win. They have a legit shot at a good season but they must win this week. Most people around the country are not paying attention -they just say same ole' Notre Dame but a few sportswriters I respect have noted the change. This team is not slow and they lost because they were not in the proper position to execute and the opponent was quick enough to make them pay. They are game and will hit you in the mouth, they also have one of the best coaches in America. His poise was impressive and he has the balls of a burgler ( letting Montana go for the TD ). He did that because he has nothing to lose in that position and he felt he may have to play a second string guy the rest of the game. Why not find out what he can do as Crist may not come back in the game. I'm positive he would play it close to the vest when he knows he has the horses in a year or two. That is precisely the time to go for it and to second guess that is just playing couch coach, Monday morning QB etc. I like what I see but they do need to prepare to be hit in the mouth this weekend and punch back. Its a big game and it comes early as they test what they are made of.

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