Muhammad Cartoon Contest....

RyCo1983

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People are such assholes. Everywhere.

I knew it I'm completely surrounded by assholes.

KEEP FIRING ASSHOLES

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sen8Tn8CBA4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Irish YJ

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Does it really matter why Muslims are offended by the drawing of Muhammad? What is important is that they are offended. Why do things to purposely provoke them? We don't have to agree with their reasoning, but how many people would feel compelled to draw pictures of Muhammad if they weren't offended? Holding these "art contests" is just inviting tension and (if organizers get their way) violence. It is a callous disregard for the beliefs, customs and feelings of fellow human beings. It is just despicable behavior.

Agreed. This is nothing more than people being dicks to get media coverage and provoke. Very similar to flag burning. Sorry, not a big fan of this "symbolic speech" or expression either. If you want to protest this place, do it. But do it the right way
 

Bishop2b5

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I'm not sure I buy that, though. If it was the will of Muhammad, who wrote the Quran, then why would he not have put it in the Quran?

Half the stuff the Christian churches claim is the will of God is hard to find any basis for in the Bible. Grossly twisted interpretations, enormous leaps of logic, and just plain old made up bs becomes dogma and is not to be questioned! Why should the Muslims be any different?
 

no.1IrishFan

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The whole thing is so patently infantile, so foreign to reality, that to anyone with a friendly attitude to humanity it is painful to think that the great majority of mortals will never be able to rise above this view of life. - Freud


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woolybug25

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I dreaded opening this thread in fear of it being a total hate thread filled with vitriol. I should have known better.

Despite our differences, this board is generally filled with reasonable and caring folks. Glad to see there is a general distaste for something like this.
 

JughedJones

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I dreaded opening this thread in fear of it being a total hate thread filled with vitriol. I should have known better.

Despite our differences, this board is generally filled with reasonable and caring folks. Glad to see there is a general distaste for something like this.

I was really worried when I saw this thread too.

I am really happy with what I found in here.
 

AvesEvo

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Does it really matter why Muslims are offended by the drawing of Muhammad? What is important is that they are offended. Why do things to purposely provoke them? We don't have to agree with their reasoning, but how many people would feel compelled to draw pictures of Muhammad if they weren't offended? Holding these "art contests" is just inviting tension and (if organizers get their way) violence. It is a callous disregard for the beliefs, customs and feelings of fellow human beings. It is just despicable behavior.

Agreed.
 

AvesEvo

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The organizer who is encouraging protesters to come armed says "true Islam is terrorism." It seems to me that it is his group that is acting like terrorists.
 

GoIrish41

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The organizer who is encouraging protesters to come armed says "true Islam is terrorism." It seems to me that it is his group that is acting like terrorists.

Careful. I made the point in another thread and was crucified. Lol
 

GoIrish41

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The question was not really a matter of why, but of if? It's just being assumed that drawing a picture of Muhammad is seriously offensive to every Muslim in the world. When, in fact, it is only offensive to a certain sect of them. Hell, in Iran, you can buy postcards with pictures of Muhammad on them. I still think it is poor judgement to have this event, but there is a certain segment of society that is ALWAYS going to be offended by ANYTHING either political, or religious. So fuck 'em. If they want to protest back, fine. But they have NO excuse for turning violent about it. And those knuckleheads who are exercising their right to open carry better keep it in their holster, as well.

So if only a certain percentage are offended it is alright to purposely offend that smaller group -- even though it is only a lesser number of millions? I did not see any ads for Muslims to bring guns to the "protest". I would hope that this country is more civilized than to provoke people and then pre-emptively suggest arming ourselves for the inevitable aftermath of our provocation. A "certain segment of the population" is always going to be offended by things that are purposely designed to offend them. So why go there? And I agree. They should not resort to violence but they should not be provoked to it by ignorant bigots either -- especially when it puts the public in potential danger. I hope nothing happens as a result of this crap, but I will not be surprised if the gets ugly. The question in my mind is how much of the blame will go to the event organizers when their wish comes true?. We may disagree on how much, but certainly they will hold some responsibility. At least I hope that we can agree on that much.
 

GoldenDome

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Let's all go out and offend people to the limit where it invokes violence.

Let's desecrate flags in front of soldiers. Oh wait....

Let's call mental challenged people "retards" to their face.

Let's call disabled people "gimps".

Let's make fun of people with cancer.

Let's cheer when a little Yorkie gets kicked to death.

Let's make fun of people's moms.

Our freedom of speech is limited by social norms whether you like it or not. Who the fuck would support people who vehemently invoke violence through blatant offensive behavior is beyond me. Sure they are well within their right, but that does not excuse them from being fuckin pricks.

They are no better than Westboro Baptists.
 

GoIrish41

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Let's all go out and offend people to the limit where it invokes violence.

Let's desecrate flags in front of soldiers. Oh wait....

Let's call mental challenged people "retards" to their face.

Let's call disabled people "gimps".

Let's make fun of people with cancer.

Let's cheer when a little Yorkie gets kicked to death.

Let's make fun of people's moms.

Our freedom of speech is limited by social norms whether you like it or not. Who the fuck would support people who vehemently invoke violence through blatant offensive behavior is beyond me. Sure they are well within their right, but that does not excuse them from being fuckin pricks.

They are no better than Westboro Baptists.
Yes! Hell yes! Thank you sir!
 

silverbeard1949

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Cartoon contest

Cartoon contest

Something to insure that the news in the near future is interesting, if not scary?
 

Bishop2b5

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Let's all go out and offend people to the limit where it invokes violence.

Let's desecrate flags in front of soldiers. Oh wait....

Let's call mental challenged people "retards" to their face.

Let's call disabled people "gimps".

Let's make fun of people with cancer.

Let's cheer when a little Yorkie gets kicked to death.

Let's make fun of people's moms.

Our freedom of speech is limited by social norms whether you like it or not. Who the fuck would support people who vehemently invoke violence through blatant offensive behavior is beyond me. Sure they are well within their right, but that does not excuse them from being fuckin pricks.

They are no better than Westboro Baptists.

I don't agree with their methods and I think it's stupid to intentionally invite trouble this way, but I do understand why they're doing it. It's by no means the same as the examples you give, where someone is just insulting innocent people for the sake of being an ass.

There's a real anger towards Muslim groups for promoting, participating in, cheering on, or at least refusing to stand up and condemn terrorism and the murdering of innocent non-Muslims. This group is retaliating and lashing out at the Muslim community and trying to humiliate, insult, and taunt them for those things. Yes, it's childish and probably counterproductive, and it's likely to just cause more violence and make things worse, but it's a far cry from the examples you give.
 

AvesEvo

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I don't agree with their methods and I think it's stupid to intentionally invite trouble this way, but I do understand why they're doing it. It's by no means the same as the examples you give, where someone is just insulting innocent people for the sake of being an ass.

There's a real anger towards Muslim groups for promoting, participating in, cheering on, or at least refusing to stand up and condemn terrorism and the murdering of innocent non-Muslims. This group is retaliating and lashing out at the Muslim community and trying to humiliate, insult, and taunt them for those things. Yes, it's childish and probably counterproductive, and it's likely to just cause more violence and make things worse, but it's a far cry from the examples you give.

You don't think people with guns yelling anti-muslim/arab phrases at a place where families congregate isn't terrorism in its own right?
 
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IrishinSyria

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I don't agree with their methods and I think it's stupid to intentionally invite trouble this way, but I do understand why they're doing it. It's by no means the same as the examples you give, where someone is just insulting innocent people for the sake of being an ass.

There's a real anger towards Muslim groups for promoting, participating in, cheering on, or at least refusing to stand up and condemn terrorism and the murdering of innocent non-Muslims. This group is retaliating and lashing out at the Muslim community and trying to humiliate, insult, and taunt them for those things. Yes, it's childish and probably counterproductive, and it's likely to just cause more violence and make things worse, but it's a far cry from the examples you give.

Of course, the problem is that the vast majority of American muslims don't promote, participate in, or cheer on terrorism, and many of them do, in fact, speak out against it (though this raises the question of why they should be morally required to...have you spoken out against the KKK, child molesting Catholic priests, the Lebanese Phalangists, and biker gangs yet today?)

Speaking as a veteran, there's a much stronger case for protesting a Soldier's funeral than there is for holding an armed protest in front of an American mosque. Don't get me wrong, I think both things are distasteful and morally wrong, but at least the Soldier had the agency to "opt in" to the group being protested.
 

Bishop2b5

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You don't think people with guns yelling anti-muslim/arab phrases at a place where families congregate isn't terrorism in its own right?

I think we use the word terrorism a bit too loosely and freely in cases where it doesn't actually apply. Sort of like some of the more strident feminists claiming that being flirted with or ogled is rape. No, it's not. It may be offensive or make you uncomfortable or be bad behavior, but it's not rape. Over-using or misusing a term in this way just diminishes its genuine meaning and effect.

Protesting and yelling insults is not terrorism. It's not terrorism just because a few of those doing so are carrying concealed weapons. Now if they're waving those weapons around, pointing them at the people they're protesting, and threatening them, that's a different story.

Again, I'm not defending what these people are doing nor agreeing with it. I'm just explaining their motivation and disagreeing with the idea that it's the same as insulting an innocent person just to be an ass.
 

IrishinSyria

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Again, I'm not defending what these people are doing nor agreeing with it. I'm just explaining their motivation and disagreeing with the idea that it's the same as insulting an innocent person just to be an ass.

So, to be clear, by definition a Muslim is not an "innocent person"? Otherwise, I'm having a hard time seeing the distinction you're trying to draw here.
 

Bishop2b5

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Of course, the problem is that the vast majority of American muslims don't promote, participate in, or cheer on terrorism, and many of them do, in fact, speak out against it (though this raises the question of why they should be morally required to...

Because the only thing evil needs in order to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing. Because most people understand that anything bad done in their name or the name of their group necessitates them condemning those things and distancing themselves from them in order to make it clear that they don't condone those actions and they aren't representative of what they or their group stand for.
 

Bishop2b5

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So, to be clear, by definition a Muslim is not an "innocent person"? Otherwise, I'm having a hard time seeing the distinction you're trying to draw here.

For the third time, I'm opposed to their actions and think they're stupid. I'm just explaining their motivation.
 

IrishinSyria

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Fair enough. All I'm saying is that if you don't presume all Muslims are implicitly connected to the crimes of a tiny minority of them, then this is indistinguishable from any other form of harassing speech.
 

AvesEvo

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I think we use the word terrorism a bit too loosely and freely in cases where it doesn't actually apply. Sort of like some of the more strident feminists claiming that being flirted with or ogled is rape. No, it's not. It may be offensive or make you uncomfortable or be bad behavior, but it's not rape. Over-using or misusing a term in this way just diminishes its genuine meaning and effect.

Protesting and yelling insults is not terrorism. It's not terrorism just because a few of those doing so are carrying concealed weapons. Now if they're waving those weapons around, pointing them at the people they're protesting, and threatening them, that's a different story.

Again, I'm not defending what these people are doing nor agreeing with it. I'm just explaining their motivation and disagreeing with the idea that it's the same as insulting an innocent person just to be an ass.

This seems to be the case and one participant even seems wanting to fire his gun.

Tense standoff outside US mosque over cartoon protest - Telegraph

Civillian:'Willing to Return Fire If Someone Disrupts 'Draw Muhammad Contest' - NBC News

Protest heated but peaceful at Phoenix mosque

Free Speech Loving Islamophobes Invade Phoenix Mosque To Draw Mohammed, Guns | Wonkette
 
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GoldenDome

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I don't agree with their methods and I think it's stupid to intentionally invite trouble this way, but I do understand why they're doing it. It's by no means the same as the examples you give, where someone is just insulting innocent people for the sake of being an ass.

There's a real anger towards Muslim groups for promoting, participating in, cheering on, or at least refusing to stand up and condemn terrorism and the murdering of innocent non-Muslims. This group is retaliating and lashing out at the Muslim community and trying to humiliate, insult, and taunt them for those things. Yes, it's childish and probably counterproductive, and it's likely to just cause more violence and make things worse, but it's a far cry from the examples you give.

How is it far from my examples? Please explain.

It is easy to say that when you are not the one being offended. I am not offended by drawings of Muhammad but I realize that others are.

Let's call morbidly obese people "fat fucks" to their face. Is that better? I fail to see how social norms do not suppress certain language from being used. Surely you would agree that insulting a fat person so much that it would be to the detriment to their mental health. Pushing people who already feel social stigma of being Muslim surely do not need people to further push them from the edge with hateful and insulting comments, comments that are cheered on by ignorant gun toting people.

They have no good reason to purposefully offend. My freedom of speech is no more or no less from their actions. Do you honestly feel more free to use your freedom of speech from their actions? I don't.
 

kmoose

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So if only a certain percentage are offended it is alright to purposely offend that smaller group -- even though it is only a lesser number of millions?

Here is the problem with this logic:

If you say that the organizers cannot hold this event because it is offensive to a certain percentage of Muslims in this country, then that sets the precedent. If it's offensive to enough people, then it is a no-go. So what happens when enough Muslims in town band together and decide that they are offended by the presence of the Catholic Church, and the masses held there, across the street from their mosque? You are going to tear down, or at the very least shutter the church? If not, then you are being hypocritical. What if a Catholic Diocese wants to build a church just down the block from the mosque? Are you going to deny the Diocese, because a relatively small group of Muslims is offended by it?
 

Bishop2b5

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How is it far from my examples? Please explain.

It is easy to say that when you are not the one being offended. I am not offended by drawings of Muhammad but I realize that others are.

Let's call morbidly obese people "fat fucks" to their face. Is that better? I fail to see how social norms do not suppress certain language from being used. Surely you would agree that insulting a fat person so much that it would be to the detriment to their mental health. Pushing people who already feel social stigma of being Muslim surely do not need people to further push them from the edge with hateful and insulting comments, comments that are cheered on by ignorant gun toting people.

They have no good reason to purposefully offend. My freedom of speech is no more or no less from their actions. Do you honestly feel more free to use your freedom of speech from their actions? I don't.

Let me try this yet again, for the fourth time: I'm not defending what they're doing nor am I in favor of it. I'm explaining their reasons and motivations. There's a big difference between explaining why someone does something and condoning or agreeing with what they do.

As for the difference between your examples and what the Muhammad art contest promoters are doing, your examples were mostly of insults and attacks on groups or individuals - the mentally challenged, physically disabled, overweight, cancer sufferers, Yorkies, and etc. - who are innocent of any wrongdoing against you or anyone else. Harassing, insulting, or trying to humiliate such people is without any reasonable motivation and would constitute simply being a giant horse's ass for no discernible reason.

While I think the art contest promoters and attendees are also being giant horse's asses and doing something stupid, they do have an understandable motivation: anger towards a group (or at least a representative of that group) that has killed thousands of their fellow citizens (9/11), murdered innocents simply because they belonged to a different religion, beheaded or burned to death people from other cultures or religions simply because they are from those other groups, willfully destroyed cultural icons, openly cheered the deaths of anyone from outside their religion, shown zero tolerance for other religions, teach their children to become suicide bombers, treat their women like sub-human chattel, openly call for the destruction of all Jews, and then claim to be cultured and the religion of peace.

Are all Muslims that way? Of course not, but those are the ones making the headlines, cheering in the streets when those things happen, going on TV to rant about wiping Israel or the Great Satan off the planet, or supporting those actions, and there aren't nearly enough of the others standing up to condemn those things. Is the mosque they're protesting guilty of any of those things? Probably not, but they represent Islam and the art contest promoters and attendees view them as representative of their religion and its violent members. There's genuine anger and disgust towards Islam by a lot of people around the world, and for good reason, though it's certainly not fair to paint all Muslims with the same broad brush. I agree that they shouldn't insult the people of this mosque, disparage what's sacred to them, act like jackasses, or try to incite violence, but the anger and animosity and desire to lash out at them is very understandable.
 
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