Media Matters

[TorontoGold]

Rich people absolutely do not buy cars with cash. If you have FCF of >$150k for a nice car you are not putting that towards a car lmao.

 

[drayer54]

Rich people absolutely do not buy cars with cash. If you have FCF of >$150k for a nice car you are not putting that towards a car lmao.

I'm not rich and I refuse to finance a car.

 

[TorontoGold]

I'm not rich and I refuse to finance a car.

That is the incorrect position to take. If you can get a rate below 7% you should always finance it. You will over the course of the finance term earn higher rates of return than 7%.

 

[drayer54]

That is the incorrect position to take. If you can get a rate below 7% you should always finance it. You will over the course of the finance term earn higher rates of return than 7%.

Its always been a refusal to have a monthly payment. Plus, I use that money to save aggressively for the next one in a dividend stock. Those land rovers aren't cheap.

 

[TorontoGold]

It’s always been a refusal to have a monthly payment. Plus, I use that money to save aggressively for the next one in a dividend stock. Those land rovers aren't cheap.

If you’re not putting the money into a growth orientated stock, you’ve already doubled down on the mistake of not financing it. This is compounding your error.

You’ve lost the opportunity to make back safe gains by not financing, so to make up for it you should be aggressive with your next investment decision.

 

[ulukinatme]

Toronto, I'm beginning to believe you just enjoy paying interest payments of any kind. Do you pay off the entire balance of your credit card each month, or is that a no-no too?

 

[Irish#1]

Rich people absolutely do not buy cars with cash. If you have FCF of >$150k for a nice car you are not putting that towards a car lmao.

Who said anything about $150K? There's plenty of luxury cars 100K and less. To the bolded, not sure how you can make a blanket statement like that. My boss is a millionaire. He always pays cash for his cars.

 

[TorontoGold]

Toronto, I'm beginning to believe you just enjoy paying interest payments of any kind. Do you pay off the entire balance of your credit card each month, or is that a no-no too?

The key rate is 7% - anything higher pay that off, and anything lower keep it rolling.

Who said anything about $150K? There's plenty of luxury cars 100K and less. To the bolded, not sure how you can make a blanket statement like that. My boss is a millionaire. He always pays cash for his cars.

I used $150K as an arbitrary figure. I can make the blanket statement from experience advising clients with TNW from $1M to >$500M on how to structure their debt facilities. They can get good rates by using finance rates offered to them corporately ie. Bank of America will say "you have a corporate term loan with us at 5%, we'll lend you $100K for your car at 5.5%"

That's not to say all rich people operate this way, but the correct and common way is to carry debt if the rate is below ~7%.

 

[NDVirginia19]

America's Paper of record. Fucking clowns lmao

 

[RDU Irish]

CBS is stupid. The people paying on car loans are the lower and middle class. The rich just buy the damn thing.

Business owners are already writing off the whole car as a business expense whether they finance it or not. I would rather finance some and maintain liquidity but they are paid off within 3 years and kept for much longer. Investing in depreciating assets is a loser game - paying interest on depreciating assets is a Canadian game apparently (loser squared).

 

[TorontoGold]

Business owners are already writing off the whole car as a business expense whether they finance it or not. I would rather finance some and maintain liquidity but they are paid off within 3 years and kept for much longer. Investing in depreciating assets is a loser game - paying interest on depreciating assets is a Canadian game apparently (loser squared).

"Alexa show me someone with no understanding of how tax laws work"

Everything is a depreciating asset lmao, but thank you for gargling out at least one correct point. The point is, you can earn a greater return in the market with the FCF you have rather than dumping it into a "depreciating asset".

 

[RDU Irish]

"Alexa show me someone with no understanding of how tax laws work"

Everything is a depreciating asset lmao, but thank you for gargling out at least one correct point. The point is, you can earn a greater return in the market with the FCF you have rather than dumping it into a "depreciating asset".

LOL - maybe for you. Also you have less FCF b/c you are servicing debt. Loser talk bragging about having loans - buy a cheaper car, own it outright sooner and keep it longer to have more FCF to invest. I didn't know Alexa had a mirror mode.

Convincing people in a 10% tax bracket that do not itemize to vote for someone b/c they can deduct their 23.99% car loan interest that will not be enough to push them to itemize and save any taxes, then having that person validate a purchase b/c of the taxes they think they will save is a classic class warfare tactic of empty handouts that effectively fools people into buying more than they can afford and perpetuating cycles of poverty.

 

[TorontoGold]

LOL - maybe for you. Also you have less FCF b/c you are servicing debt. Loser talk bragging about having loans - buy a cheaper car, own it outright sooner and keep it longer to have more FCF to invest. I didn't know Alexa had a mirror mode.

Convincing people in a 10% tax bracket that do not itemize to vote for someone b/c they can deduct their 23.99% car loan interest that will not be enough to push them to itemize and save any taxes, then having that person validate a purchase b/c of the taxes they think they will save is a classic class warfare tactic of empty handouts that effectively fools people into buying more than they can afford and perpetuating cycles of poverty.

Are you ok? You brought up tax write-offs. Any asset used in a business is a depreciable asset. RDU "Pay $70K upfront! Don't pay ~800 monthly. You'll have more FCF paying the $70K upfront!" LOL

Loser talk servicing debt LMAO tell me you've never sat at the grownups table without telling me. Unless you're running a smalltime cash based business you would have had to carry debt at some point.

The whole point of my post was that it is categorically wrong that rich people pay for cars in full. I don't think anyone is voting on vehicle interest rate deductibility.

 

[NDVirginia19]

You could probably rightfully claim that this started with Fox News (too young to remember Fox News not being a blatantly Republican/Conservative spin news network) but it is truly insane how every mainstream news source is nakedly partisan. And people wonder why the trust in the media is so abysmally low

 

[TorontoGold]

You could probably rightfully claim that this started with Fox News (too young to remember Fox News not being a blatantly Republican/Conservative spin news network) but it is truly insane how every mainstream news source is nakedly partisan. And people wonder why the trust in the media is so abysmally low

I think it always has been? I remember how in-sync everyone was with the middle east wars post 9/11. Certainly opened the door to the increase in distrust in MSM, and pairing that with the access to information people can now see through what the narrative is quite quickly. People look back at the "old days" as fine journalism but that's because the prominent narratives were those that reaffirmed their beliefs. These networks were running ads about how smoking was good for you lol

 

[ColoradoIrish]

You could probably rightfully claim that this started with Fox News (too young to remember Fox News not being a blatantly Republican/Conservative spin news network) but it is truly insane how every mainstream news source is nakedly partisan. And people wonder why the trust in the media is so abysmally low

It didn't start with fox news, it started in 1987 when the fairness doctrine was repealed. And changed further in 2000 when the personal attack rule and political editorial rule were repealed. It's pretty interesting to look into the history of how our media has changed over the years and what caused it.

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[Bishop2b5]

Shocking, isn't it?

 

[NorthDakota]

Rich people absolutely do not buy cars with cash. If you have FCF of >$150k for a nice car you are not putting that towards a car lmao.

I suppose it depends on interest rates and discounts. Might depend on what you call rich too?

 

[TorontoGold]

I suppose it depends on interest rates and discounts. Might depend on what you call rich too?

Rich IMO is someone who can spend ~50K in cash for a luxury good (car).

It's all about interest rates. Anything above ~5% you have to factor in term, and anything over 7% you should pay as much down as possible.

Rich people (on average) do not pay for cars in all cash.

 

[RDU Irish]

Are you ok? You brought up tax write-offs. Any asset used in a business is a depreciable asset. RDU "Pay $70K upfront! Don't pay ~800 monthly. You'll have more FCF paying the $70K upfront!" LOL

Loser talk servicing debt LMAO tell me you've never sat at the grownups table without telling me. Unless you're running a smalltime cash based business you would have had to carry debt at some point.

The whole point of my post was that it is categorically wrong that rich people pay for cars in full. I don't think anyone is voting on vehicle interest rate deductibility.

5 year 5% loan on $70,000 is $1321/month. Paying $800/month would take nine years to pay off. Keep up the good work - good thing your "clients" are too rich to be impacted by your bad advice.

 

[TorontoGold]

5 year 5% loan on $70,000 is $1321/month. Paying $800/month would take nine years to pay off. Keep up the good work - good thing your "clients" are too rich to be impacted by your bad advice.

I'm glad you sifted through all of that to use your own figures to try and disprove my 5 second napkin math.

Can you tell the whole class what the difference is between 70,000 at ~7% vs 70,000 at ~5% over 5 years is? Don't worry, I got you, it's $8.8K. That's what you're giving up by dumping your FCF into a car vs putting it into the market.

If you ever need debt restructuring advice I can find you someone that might be able to fit your budget.

 

[RDU Irish]

I'm glad you sifted through all of that to use your own figures to try and disprove my 5 second napkin math.

Can you tell the whole class what the difference is between 70,000 at ~7% vs 70,000 at ~5% over 5 years is? Don't worry, I got you, it's $8.8K. That's what you're giving up by dumping your FCF into a car vs putting it into the market.

If you ever need debt restructuring advice I can find you someone that might be able to fit your budget.

LOL "sifting" took about 20 seconds on my BAIIplus that is probably older than you.

Mr. Beancounter might want to develop a basic understanding of volatility rather than extrapolating average returns as gospel. The true delta would be found by comparing a $70k upfront investment with zero additions to a $1321/month investment over five years. Your strategy has enormous variance in real world outcomes whereas the dollar cost averaging approach provides more consistency. That is before getting into behavioral finance, tail risk events, asset "location" availability (does this choice impact Roth/401k/IRA optimization) and of course the stupidity of boiling a complex financial picture down to such a binary choice.

Sounds like your "clients" are 100% "market" with maximum leverage on every purchase as long as they are borrowing below 7% interest. LTCM applauds you.

 

[TorontoGold]

LOL "sifting" took about 20 seconds on my BAIIplus that is probably older than you.

Mr. Beancounter might want to develop a basic understanding of volatility rather than extrapolating average returns as gospel. The true delta would be found by comparing a $70k upfront investment with zero additions to a $1321/month investment over five years. Your strategy has enormous variance in real world outcomes whereas the dollar cost averaging approach provides more consistency. That is before getting into behavioral finance, tail risk events, asset "location" availability (does this choice impact Roth/401k/IRA optimization) and of course the stupidity of boiling a complex financial picture down to such a binary choice.

Sounds like your "clients" are 100% "market" with maximum leverage on every purchase as long as they are borrowing below 7% interest. LTCM applauds you.

Because it's really that simple - just put it into a S&P index fund and close your eyes. If you invested the $70K when Trump took office and held it till today (through COIVD gasp!) you would have had an inflation adjusted return of ~8.75%.

The only reason this is a discussion is because interest rates are so high currently, once they drop back down your argument gets even worse than it is.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

It didn't start with fox news, it started in 1987 when the fairness doctrine was repealed. And changed further in 2000 when the personal attack rule and political editorial rule were repealed. It's pretty interesting to look into the history of how our media has changed over the years and what caused it.

So often dismissed and forgotten.

The internet boomed into the new century on top of that.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

So often dismissed and forgotten.

The internet boomed into the new century on top of that.

We took any guard rails off we had right before the technology came into existence for mass consumption of news like never before.

 

[RDU Irish]

Because it's really that simple - just put it into a S&P index fund and close your eyes. If you invested the $70K when Trump took office and held it till today (through COIVD gasp!) you would have had an inflation adjusted return of ~8.75%.

The only reason this is a discussion is because interest rates are so high currently, once they drop back down your argument gets even worse than it is.

My argument "it depends"

Your argument "One way or you are an idiot"

Dollar-cost Average Calculator

Buy $70k SPY in October 2019 = $145k
Buy $1321/month SPY since October 2019 = $121k

This is one of the most favorable snapshots in history.

Change that to 10/2007 start date and you get
$70k upfront = $71,189
$1321/month = $102k
HAHAHA who is an idiot now!!!!

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

We took any guard rails off we had right before the technology came into existence for mass consumption of news like never before.

Right. But, Communism....

 

[TorontoGold]

My argument "it depends"

Your argument "One way or you are an idiot"

Dollar-cost Average Calculator

Buy $70k SPY in October 2019 = $145k
Buy $1321/month SPY since October 2019 = $121k

This is one of the most favorable snapshots in history.

Change that to 10/2007 start date and you get
$70k upfront = $71,189
$1321/month = $102k
HAHAHA who is an idiot now!!!!

The argument is you're spending $70K now on a car. My point is that the $70K is better spent on the market then into a car. Holy fuck.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

They're actually teaching students in school about misinformation, how to spot it, etc.

In socialist Finland, of course. And it's working, so of course, we're going to say fuck that over here and just keep banning books in libraries and English class.