LOL @ Seattle...

NDJimmy

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I guess lumping all of the sports fans in the Northwest together would be like the assumption that the whole country sees Indiana as homophobic morons.

Portland sees Seattle as a bunch of wing nuts, and vice versa.

A petition to ban any athlete from any city is an idea born of stupidity.
 

kmoose

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I guess lumping all of the sports fans in the Northwest together would be like the assumption that the whole country sees Indiana as homophobic morons.

Portland sees Seattle as a bunch of wing nuts, and vice versa.

A petition to ban any athlete from any city is an idea born of stupidity.

I've lived in both areas........... Seattle and Portland. Outside of the Trailblazers, I have never seen a more uninformed, fair weather, arrogant, and lacking in historical perspective group of fans. That's not to say every one of them is that way, but the ones that are that way WAY outnumber the ones that aren't.
 

NDohio

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I've lived in both areas........... Seattle and Portland. Outside of the Trailblazers, I have never seen a more uninformed, fair weather, arrogant, and lacking in historical perspective group of fans. That's not to say every one of them is that way, but the ones that are that way WAY outnumber the ones that aren't.

I don't know if you watch soccer, but both the Portland and Seattle fans are spectacular. Portland has, by far, the best environment in the MLS.
 

kmoose

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I don't know if you watch soccer, but both the Portland and Seattle fans are spectacular. Portland has, by far, the best environment in the MLS.

That's true. I overlooked soccer. Both are good soccer cities.
 

NDinL.A.

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I don't know if you watch soccer, but both the Portland and Seattle fans are spectacular. Portland has, by far, the best environment in the MLS.

It really is phenomenal, and it's borne of the old-time clubs in Europe, where they walk through he city with he rest of he fans, chanting and singing he entire way to the stadium. It's a beautiful thing and an amazing thing to be a part of.
 

NDohio

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It really is phenomenal, and it's borne of the old-time clubs in Europe, where they walk through he city with he rest of he fans, chanting and singing he entire way to the stadium. It's a beautiful thing and an amazing thing to be a part of.

BIL and his family just moved out to Portland. I can't wait to visit and it will be while the Timbers are in town.
 

ulukinatme

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Seattle fans went on to say:
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

Seriously, I feel like Seattle is where crazy resides. Had an ex-gf try to get me to pack up and move with her to Seattle when my family, her family, and a decent job was here for me. She was going out there to work for Equal Rights Washington. She didn't even really believe in the cause, she called it "Helping the Homos." They just offered to pay something like 3/4 of her remaining college tuition, which was good enough for her. I actually have two ex-gfs that live in Seattle, and they're both loons.
 
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FightingIrishLover7

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Calling Seattle sports fans "dumb" is absurd. Having lived in Indiana my whole, and now living in Seattle the past 3 years as opened my eyes to what it's like to live in an educated city. It's baffling the amount of educated people in this city.

Also, I'm pretty sure I remember reading, before I moved here, that no major city in the country has more college degrees per capita.

So, I'm not sure how you're defining "dumb".
 

Irish YJ

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Calling Seattle sports fans "dumb" is absurd. Having lived in Indiana my whole, and now living in Seattle the past 3 years as opened my eyes to what it's like to live in an educated city. It's baffling the amount of educated people in this city.

Also, I'm pretty sure I remember reading, before I moved here, that no major city in the country has more college degrees per capita.

So, I'm not sure how you're defining "dumb".

Maybe, but I don't define smart as having a college degree. I have one, and it sure in the hell didn't make me smart. It did teach me persistence and helped speed the level of maturity though. Some of the biggest morons I know have Masters and PHDs.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Seattle fans went on to say:
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

Seriously, I feel like Seattle is where crazy resides. Had an ex-gf try to get me to pack up and move with her to Seattle when my family, her family, and a decent job was here for me. She was going out there to work for Equal Rights Washington. She didn't even really believe in the cause, she called it "Helping the Homos." They just offered to pay something like 3/4 of her remaining college tuition, which was good enough for her. I actually have two ex-gfs that live in Seattle, and they're both loons.
Nice anecdotal evidence, way to lump the whole city into one basket based on your poor taste in women.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Maybe, but I don't define smart as having a college degree. I have one, and it sure in the hell didn't make me smart. It did teach me persistence and helped speed the level of maturity though. Some of the biggest morons I know have Masters and PHDs.
So you're saying college didn't make you smart, but it made you hard working and persistent? Is that not what being smart is all about, really? The purpose of college (at least good universities, with a challenging field of study) is to put students in compromising situations in which they'll have to face adversity, and own up to whatever challenge they face. Doing this day after day for four years (or more) makes you smart, period. Even if you feel like you're not "textbook smart", walking away with a degree shows that you know how to survive a system that is trying to weed you out. That's smart. So, yes, the more people with degrees, the smarter and more competitive that area is going to be. There is a positive correlation between intelligence and academics, whether you want to believe it or not. Your anecdotal evidence is certainly not enough to disprove it.
 

kmoose

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So you're saying college didn't make you smart, but it made you hard working and persistent? Is that not what being smart is all about, really? The purpose of college (at least good universities, with a challenging field of study) is to put students in compromising situations in which they'll have to face adversity, and own up to whatever challenge they face. Doing this day after day for four years (or more) makes you smart, period. Even if you feel like you're not "textbook smart", walking away with a degree shows that you know how to survive a system that is trying to weed you out. That's smart. So, yes, the more people with degrees, the smarter and more competitive that area is going to be. There is a positive correlation between intelligence and academics, whether you want to believe it or not. Your anecdotal evidence is certainly not enough to disprove it.

Neither is your arrogant elitist attitude enough to prove it. Being smart or dumb really has nothing to do with being educated. It is about your ability to reason and think critically. Many people excel in both of those areas without the benefit of higher education. And many people with a higher education struggle mightily in those areas. I know engineers who are highly educated people, book smart beyond belief. And I'm amazed that they can tie their own shoes each day. By the same token, when I worked in Fire and Security systems I knew some carpenters who could frame up a 6,000 sq. ft. office building, and every single wall would be true, and every single corner would be square. But these guys couldn't tell you the square root of four without using a pen and paper.

When I was in the Seattle area (Whidbey Island, 1995-1996), the average Mariners fan didn't know jack about Mariners history, past Ken Griffey, Jr. They were fair weather fans who came out of the woodwork because the Mariners were suddenly good. The same thing in Portland, a few years later, when the average Ducks fan seemed to think that College Football started with Akili Smith and Mike Bellotti. The local sports talk radio show had a poll on their website, asking people to name the greatest Duck player in history. Terry Baker won the poll with over 60% of the vote. What's wrong with that, you say? Terry Baker played for Oregon STATE, not Oregon.
 

Irish YJ

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So you're saying college didn't make you smart, but it made you hard working and persistent? Is that not what being smart is all about, really? The purpose of college (at least good universities, with a challenging field of study) is to put students in compromising situations in which they'll have to face adversity, and own up to whatever challenge they face. Doing this day after day for four years (or more) makes you smart, period. Even if you feel like you're not "textbook smart", walking away with a degree shows that you know how to survive a system that is trying to weed you out. That's smart. So, yes, the more people with degrees, the smarter and more competitive that area is going to be. There is a positive correlation between intelligence and academics, whether you want to believe it or not. Your anecdotal evidence is certainly not enough to disprove it.

Sure there is a correlation. Persistence and maturity can be had from military service, and many other things. My "smarts" came from where I grew up, and the job I had through college and after. Academics can certainly assist in making someone smart, but is certainly not the end all. Graduated from Kelley SoB (IU), but there is not much I learned in college that is directly applied in my current job (EVP of a technology company). I'd also say that 1 of the smartest people I employ (cisco eng CCXX), did not go to college.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Neither is your arrogant elitist attitude enough to prove it. Being smart or dumb really has nothing to do with being educated. It is about your ability to reason and think critically. Many people excel in both of those areas without the benefit of higher education. And many people with a higher education struggle mightily in those areas. I know engineers who are highly educated people, book smart beyond belief. And I'm amazed that they can tie their own shoes each day. By the same token, when I worked in Fire and Security systems I knew some carpenters who could frame up a 6,000 sq. ft. office building, and every single wall would be true, and every single corner would be square. But these guys couldn't tell you the square root of four without using a pen and paper.

When I was in the Seattle area (Whidbey Island, 1995-1996), the average Mariners fan didn't know jack about Mariners history, past Ken Griffey, Jr. They were fair weather fans who came out of the woodwork because the Mariners were suddenly good. The same thing in Portland, a few years later, when the average Ducks fan seemed to think that College Football started with Akili Smith and Mike Bellotti. The local sports talk radio show had a poll on their website, asking people to name the greatest Duck player in history. Terry Baker won the poll with over 60% of the vote. What's wrong with that, you say? Terry Baker played for Oregon STATE, not Oregon.
One, I'm not an elitist, I simply hate when people deal in absolutes based on their own anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal biases in our society explain the vast majority of societal conflicts.

And yes, stastical evidence is greater than anecdotal evidence, no matter how hard your personal beliefs and experiences tell you otherwise. Those personal beliefs that you determine based on your own experiences are exactly what cause people to deal in absolutes, and improperly categorize an entire group, race, population, etc into one severely over generalized label.

That's my problem, I have no offense taken by insulting the city (I'm not even from here as I said earlier). I'm just tired of people's need to categorize, especially based on biased anecdotal evidence.
 

kmoose

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One, I'm not an elitist, I simply hate when people deal in absolutes based on their own anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal biases in our society explain the vast majority of societal conflicts.

You're an elitist because you think that education = intelligence, and intelligence ONLY = education. I never said that my observations were absolute.

I've lived in both areas........... Seattle and Portland. Outside of the Trailblazers, I have never seen a more uninformed, fair weather, arrogant, and lacking in historical perspective group of fans. That's not to say every one of them is that way, but the ones that are that way WAY outnumber the ones that aren't.

I also admitted to my oversight of the soccer fans in the PNW.

And yes, stastical [sic] evidence is greater than anecdotal evidence, no matter how hard your personal beliefs and experiences tell you otherwise. Those personal beliefs that you determine based on your own experiences are exactly what cause people to deal in absolutes, and improperly categorize an entire group, race, population, etc into one severely over generalized label.

But you have offered no pertinent statistical evidence. Only your own bias that education = intelligence. A high percentage of college degrees does not automatically make a population intelligent. Dexter Manley had a college degree and was illiterate, for Christ's sake! And, again, I was not dealing in absolutes. If other people were, that's on them, not me. So quit trying to hang that around my neck as if it will diminish my opinion on the subject.

That's my problem, I have no offense taken by insulting the city (I'm not even from here as I said earlier). I'm just tired of people's need to categorize, especially based on biased anecdotal evidence.

And that's your problem... you DID take offense to the perceived slight on the fans in your area, assuming that a slight on them is a slight on you. But I never said it included everyone. In fact, I clearly stated the opposite.
 

Grahambo

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So you're saying college didn't make you smart, but it made you hard working and persistent? Is that not what being smart is all about, really? The purpose of college (at least good universities, with a challenging field of study) is to put students in compromising situations in which they'll have to face adversity, and own up to whatever challenge they face. Doing this day after day for four years (or more) makes you smart, period. Even if you feel like you're not "textbook smart", walking away with a degree shows that you know how to survive a system that is trying to weed you out. That's smart. So, yes, the more people with degrees, the smarter and more competitive that area is going to be. There is a positive correlation between intelligence and academics, whether you want to believe it or not. Your anecdotal evidence is certainly not enough to disprove it.

Don't need to go to college for that.
 
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pkt77242

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Sure there is a correlation. Persistence and maturity can be had from military service, and many other things. My "smarts" came from where I grew up, and the job I had through college and after. Academics can certainly assist in making someone smart, but is certainly not the end all. Graduated from Kelley SoB (IU), but there is not much I learned in college that is directly applied in my current job (EVP of a technology company). I'd also say that 1 of the smartest people I employ (cisco eng CCXX), did not go to college.

I agree that there is a correlation between intelligence and education. Education is not the only thing that indicates intelligence but there is a strong correlation between the two. Of course there are really smart people who didn't go to college and there are some not very intelligent people who have graduated from college (we all know a few of them).

Good school. I am halfway through my Masters from there.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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One, I'm not an elitist, I simply hate when people deal in absolutes based on their own anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal biases in our society explain the vast majority of societal conflicts.

And yes, stastical evidence is greater than anecdotal evidence, no matter how hard your personal beliefs and experiences tell you otherwise. Those personal beliefs that you determine based on your own experiences are exactly what cause people to deal in absolutes, and improperly categorize an entire group, race, population, etc into one severely over generalized label.

That's my problem, I have no offense taken by insulting the city (I'm not even from here as I said earlier). I'm just tired of people's need to categorize, especially based on biased anecdotal evidence.

I would classify you as what psychologists call, "classification oppositional disorder". I know a bunch of people just like you. There is hope.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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Don't need to go to college for that.
I never said that's the only way to gain those experiences. However, assuming you do go to a challenging school / program, you will be forced to go through those situations. Opposed to not going to school, you may or may not put yourself in those situations to gain similar experiences.

As a poster mentioned above, we all know people that are absurdly smart and successful that never went to universities. I specifically said there's a positive correlation between the two variables.

My whole argument here is to wake up people that speak in absolutes. So, for me to say that increase in education = 1:1 increase of intelligence, with no exceptions, would be hypocritical of me.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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I would classify you as what psychologists call, "classification oppositional disorder". I know a bunch of people just like you. There is hope.
You're diagnosing me based on one argument? That's a little quick-triggered imo.

I rarely get into debates (especially on here), because they're absolutely silly. People get so worked up emotionally and physically (stressed) and in the end, nothing changes usually. Both parties walk away with the same beliefs they entered the conversation with. One of the only positive result is it might make you feel gratified getting your frustration of your chest. It's simply a waste of time and energy.

I'm not one to judge what's right or wrong, but I do feel that it's critically important that we don't fall victim to classifying others based on loose, anecdotal evidence. That mechanistic behavior is what fuels prejudices in our society.

So, if I have a "disorder" for wanting to explain the flaws of improper classification, than that's a disorder that I'll proudly take.

(side note: Would this also mean that you would diagnose all human rights activists, including the likes of Gandhi and MLK, with a similar disorder? )
 

Irish YJ

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I never said that's the only way to gain those experiences. However, assuming you do go to a challenging school / program, you will be forced to go through those situations. Opposed to not going to school, you may or may not put yourself in those situations to gain similar experiences.

As a poster mentioned above, we all know people that are absurdly smart and successful that never went to universities. I specifically said there's a positive correlation between the two variables.

My whole argument here is to wake up people that speak in absolutes. So, for me to say that increase in education = 1:1 increase of intelligence, with no exceptions, would be hypocritical of me.

BTW, I don't think I ever spoke in absolutes going back to my original post. I also think some here have different definitions of SMART... one of the smartest guys I know, no college (co-owner of the company I work at). One of the biggest idiots I've ever known... PHD (can't keep a relationship, several bankruptcies, you name it). College was absolutely a great benefit to me in so many ways. It opened my mind (in different ways), challenged me (in several ways), but I would take my street smarts any day of the week, and would also say that I was born with the ability to retain info a bit better than most.

My degree did open doors, which is the biggest benefit (IMO). Higher education is something I would recommend for anyone, but at the same time it's not for everyone. I bet whiskey has a few nice degrees. but I bet he was damn brilliant before he went to college, and would have been very successful without it.
 

Irish YJ

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I agree that there is a correlation between intelligence and education. Education is not the only thing that indicates intelligence but there is a strong correlation between the two. Of course there are really smart people who didn't go to college and there are some not very intelligent people who have graduated from college (we all know a few of them).

Good school. I am halfway through my Masters from there.

Nice!!! Great school. Opens up a lot of doors.
 

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You're diagnosing me based on one argument? That's a little quick-triggered imo.

I rarely get into debates (especially on here), because they're absolutely silly. People get so worked up emotionally and physically (stressed) and in the end, nothing changes usually. Both parties walk away with the same beliefs they entered the conversation with. One of the only positive result is it might make you feel gratified getting your frustration of your chest. It's simply a waste of time and energy.

I'm not one to judge what's right or wrong, but I do feel that it's critically important that we don't fall victim to classifying others based on loose, anecdotal evidence. That mechanistic behavior is what fuels prejudices in our society.

So, if I have a "disorder" for wanting to explain the flaws of improper classification, than that's a disorder that I'll proudly take.

(side note: Would this also mean that you would diagnose all human rights activists, including the likes of Gandhi and MLK, with a similar disorder? )

Man, I thought my tongue was so firmly in my cheek, there was no need to state it outright. If you read your response then read my response, I hope it'll make more sense.

I was simply classifying you in a group with boundaries after you complained that's what people do. Geez, I really thought I'd get some laughs.

Methinks I failed.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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I'm going to bail on this argument, because there's really nothing to be gained for anyone.

I was just trying to do my due diligence with regards to stopping categorization and "absolute" speak.

I really didn't mean to start anything, and I'm sorry for that. I apologize if I came off as being to offensive, but I truly believe this is a major issue with our society, and I do feel passionate about the negative effects these moral lapse result in.
 

kmoose

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I was just trying to do my due diligence with regards to stopping categorization and "absolute" speak.

I really didn't mean to start anything, and I'm sorry for that. I apologize if I came off as being to offensive, but I truly believe this is a major issue with our society, and I do feel passionate about the negative effects these moral lapse result in.

I'm calling BS, because no one was speaking in "absolute" speak. YOU were the one who brought that into it. If anyone was speaking in absolutes, it was you:

Remember this:

Even if you feel like you're not "textbook smart", walking away with a degree shows that you know how to survive a system that is trying to weed you out. That's smart. So, yes, the more people with degrees, the smarter and more competitive that area is going to be.
 

FightingIrishLover7

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I'm calling BS, because no one was speaking in "absolute" speak. YOU were the one who brought that into it. If anyone was speaking in absolutes, it was you:

Remember this:
Your initial argument was that "the rest of the country viewed Seattle as having dumb sports fans."

You implied that that everyone, everywhere views Seattle sports fans as being dumb.

Clearly that's speaking in absolutes. To say otherwise is incorrect. Perhaps you didn't mean it, but you certainly said it.

Again, I'm walking away from this, I wanted to do you the favor of answering your last question. Beyond this, I exhausted my little energy that I care to allocate towards this trivial argument.

I wish that you understand my concerns, but if you do not, I'll be fine. I also wish the same for you.
 
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