Let's talk about race

[pkt77242]

The new threat: 'Racism without racists' - CNN.com

http://www.povertyactionlab.org/publication/are-emily-and-greg-more-employable-lakisha-and-jamal-field-experiment-labor-market-discr

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

 

[pkt77242]

I think that the first step to fixing the issue is to admit that there is a problem. With so many people in denial about racism in the U.S. it is becoming increasingly difficult to fix.

 

[Rack Em]

He rode a blazing saddle, he wore a shining star
His job to offer battle, to bad men near and far
He conquered fear and he conquered hate
He turned our night into day
He made his blazing saddle a torch to light the way!

 

[pkt77242]

Also an interesting paper on how whites believe that they are more discriminated against then blacks.

http://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/sommerslab/documents/raceinternortonsommers2011.pdf

And while not necessarily about racism and good look at the wealth gap between whites and blacks

The net worth of the average black household in the United States is $6,314, compared with $110,500 for the average white household, according to 2011 census data. The gap has worsened in the last decade, and the United States now has a greater wealth gap by race than South Africa did during apartheid. (Whites in America on average own almost 18 times as much as blacks; in South Africa in 1970, the ratio was about 15 times.)

• The black-white income gap is roughly 40 percent greater today than it was in 1967.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-after-ferguson-race-deserves-more-attention-not-less.html?smid=tw-share&_r=2

 

[jspags10pg]

This is a great idea for discussion, BUT....an internet forum is not the place for a civil discussion on a touchy subject. I like the idea of being able to openly discuss this topic but it needs to be done in person where people can't be internet tough guys behind their keyboards.

 

[Cackalacky]

Setting the O/U and 70.5 posts before this thread goes off the tracks.

I don't know how you have a discussion about "race" in the abstract because it's such a broad term.

My 2 cents is that "color" and "race" are daily becoming less of an issue because there are so many people now who are "mixed" whereas decades and centuries ago interracial marriages were much more frowned upon (if not outright forbidden by law in some cases). As more and more of that happens it becomes less "them" than "us" when talking about people from different heritages.

For my personal experiences, I'm mixed Latino and "white." Latino enough to check the box, receive scholarships, and literally have a family member get mistaken as a valet at a fancy restaurant on account of color... but white enough (thanks, mom #whiteprivilege) that if you didn't see me with a heavy tan or saw my last name or saw me around the rest of my family you'd almost just certainly lump me in the bin "white" at first glance. At my current job, my office is incredibly diverse with a lot of the talent being foreign nationals. It doesn't matter where you're from or what you look like, the hiring process is all about being the most qualified. I've never seen the race topic broached once. On my side of the office we have:
-6 "black" (Sudan, Philadelphia, North Carolina, Jamaica, DC, and one I don't know)
-8 "white" (from all over the US + 1 Ukranian guy)
-4 Hispanic/Latino (I think all born but they're all fluent Spanish or Portuguese speakers)
-6 "Asian" (2x India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Turkey, Iran)

Everyone is a happy family. No one needs a "healthy discussion on race" to get through their day treating people as people. And that doesn't even account for all the different religions... so it's always hard for me to appreciate that there is some hypothetical larger over-arching race problem in this country. IMO, you've got a lot of people invested in warping isolated incidents into a narrative in order to justify their existence, and I don't think that's ever going to change. And then you've got maybe the 5% of this country that are actually overtly racist and I don't know what you can do to change someone like that.

I'll close with this fun/incendiary anecdote... the most openly racist people I've ever met are Koreans, and it's not even close.

I am not going to post too much in this thread but I wanted to give an opposite personal situation. I work in the most diverse, influential, booming city in South Carolina. My last two positions have been with firms of varying size. One having 500-700 employees and one having 100 employees. Both have less than 5% minorities and zero foreigners. This is also similar to other firms I am in frequent contact with. The medical community and University (MUSC) is the most diverse with many foreigners and women ( graduate studies and doctoral research). Outside of the medical field, there is zero diversity here in professional jobs.


My family also has multiethnic/biracial marriages. I could write a book on how much differently they are treated even at places like restaurants, birthday parties whatever... Job opportunities are not to the most qualified but preferential, particularly if you are a graduate of the Citadel or Clemson for engineering professions and USC for law, Business and medicine. If you are from out of state, of attended another school, your prospects at landing a job plummet. SC is extremely insular on all fronts and that is just for the white guys.

As to racial identity, I agree. It is tough to sort out what it matters versus what it even is these days with so many biracial couples. Want to see someone truly flummoxed? Have the discussion with someone about how "black" is a biracial person? Which is stupid because genetically ther is little to no differnce at all and it truly is just skin deep. It really ends up with how they identify and cultural practices are adopted.

 

[GoldenDome]

I am not going to post too much in this thread but I wanted to give an opposite personal situation. I work in the most diverse, influential, booming city in South Carolina. My last two positions have been with firms of varying size. One having 500-700 employees and one having 100 employees. Both have less than 5% minorities and zero foreigners. This is also similar to other firms I am in frequent contact with. The medical community and University (MUSC) is the most diverse with many foreigners and women ( graduate studies and doctoral research). Outside of the medical field, there is zero diversity here in professional jobs.


My family also has multiethnic/biracial marriages. I could write a book on how much differently they are treated even at places like restaurants, birthday parties whatever... Job opportunities are not to the most qualified but preferential, particularly if you are a graduate of the Citadel or Clemson for engineering professions and USC for law, Business and medicine. If you are from out of state, of attended another school, your prospects at landing a job plummet. SC is extremely insular on all fronts and that is just for the white guys.

A friend I knew lived in SC and was in a multiracial marriage. Her son was treated horribly in school just because of the way he looked. He came home many times and asked his parents what was wrong with him. They had to relocate because of it. Seems like there will be little change from generation to generation.

 

[irishff1014]

I really think for the most part it is state based. Some states are worse then others.

 

[arahop]

In my mind I'm racist every day, and reason starts to set in. It's about crossing barriers. How long you can exist in the others culture is the real question. We always fear what we don't know. Therein lies why prejudice and racism will always exist unfortunately.

 

[IrishLax]

Um, have you looked at the studies on racism because everyone that I have read seem to peg the % of people show explicit racism as much higher and that isn't taking into account people who are implicitly racist.

AP poll: U.S. majority have prejudice against blacks

Chris Rock is right: White Americans are a lot less racist than they used to be. - The Washington Post

You may be more racist than you think, study says - CNN.com

The scary part is if explicit racism really falls somewhere between 25-40% of the population, that that number doesn't even take into account implicit racism which is harder to measure. Anthony Greenwald a professor at the University of Washington has an interesting test that people can take to measure their implicit attitudes towards various things such as race, gender, sexual orientation and various other things.
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

Yeah, this is going to be my last post in this thread because I just do not feel like getting involved in another one of these.

I'm not talking "overt" racism in the part you bolded the same way you're talking about "explicit" racism. I'm talking about people who literally forbid family members from dating black people or things like that... real, legitimate hateful discrimination.

Everyone -- literally, everyone -- harbors racial biases. It's a sliding scale from "near none" to "outspoken bigot" ... and where you start drawing the line between who is what degree of "racist" is murky so I don't fee like debating semantics.

 

[ickythump1225]

He's also still alive if some Guido cop doesn't try to be a hardass.

My wife is half-Italian. I don't get offended at things (taking offense at things is real big sign of weakness in my mind) but that comment doesn't seem very productive to the overall intent of this thread.

 

[GoldenDomer]

My wife is half-Italian. I don't get offended at things (taking offense at things is real big sign of weakness in my mind) but that comment doesn't seem very productive to the overall intent of this thread.

Since you used a Michael-Toby gif, I admit I probably should have used the word douchebag.

 

[D-BOE34]

Why is it that a mixed (black ad white) person gets to claim they are "Black"?

I ask this because I think it is such an important sign in what is wrong with society, IMO. Is it to support the fight against racism? Does that mean you are accepting the issues that do come with choosing to announce "black" over white?

Want to be very clear in that I am not trying to be an ass. I have never understood why this is and even my friends who are mixed haven't given me a great reason. The person that I can have these kinds of conversations with the most, that I think is a very smart individual, is all about people being people and won't really venture into that conversation.

 

[ickythump1225]

I think that for the most part Americans get along quite well with each other. However the media loves to find issues that involve 2 or more races and sensationalize it to the high heavens. The Ferguson incident had zero to do with race until the media and race hustlers decided otherwise, same with the NYC incident and 99% of most "racist" incidents that the media over blows.

I'm not much for conspiracy theories but the media coverage really makes me think that there is an agenda behind it all. I really do believe that those in power and those with all the money benefit from having us divided and fighting. The current system is set up to favor those at the top at the expense of everyone else. The top 1% own more collective wealth than something like the bottom 60% combined. Historically imbalances like that are the cause of violent uprisings and revolutions. I'm not calling for violence but a revolution in our institutions and systems is probably appropriate however a divided populace is a safe populace.

The fat cats love when we squabble over "white privilege" and shit like Ferguson because it distracts us while they're busy continually f**king us over.

 

[ickythump1225]

Since you used a Michael-Toby gif, I admit I probably should have used the word douchebag.

Look at that, solving racial issues. Just call me:

 

[GoldenDomer]

Look at that, solving racial issues. Just call me:

I hope that picture was supposed to be

(Since mine won't show up either, I assume we posted the same pic)

 

[Circa]

This thread is nice! Nice as pie on a Sunday afternoon! in Alabama... or Ohio

<div style="max-width: 500px;" id="_giphy_UnrC5DLz5gvV6"></div><script>var _giphy = _giphy || []; _giphy.push({id: "UnrC5DLz5gvV6",w: 530, h: 398});var g = document.createElement("script"); g.type = "text/javascript"; g.async = true;g.src = ("https:" == document.location.protocol ? "https://" : "http://") + "giphy.com/static/js/widgets/embed.js";var s = document.getElementsByTagName("script")[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(g, s);</script>

 

[CurtisCandy]

Conversations like this always make me think back to my late teens, when I lived in California. I was heavily into boxing at the time, and being white, I was dramatically the minority in the gym at which I trained. It was mostly black and Mexican dudes there, with a few of us white boys sprinkled in.

The first day I went in there, the black guy who ran the place looked at me and said, "What the hell do you want, Snow White?" I soon learned, though, as far as I was concerned, he wasn't being racist, he was just ripping on me and happened to use my skin color for this particular verbal attack.

That gym was like no place I'd ever been before or since. There was all sorts of racially inspired barbs and comments towards one another, but I don't remember them ever being the cause of any problems. Don't get me wrong, there were fights all the time. I just never saw any that were due to racial tension. It was always just because a couple guys didn't like each other or just simply wanted to fight.

The guy who so graciously greeted me at the door, Al, became one of my best friends during my years in California. We threw racial insults at each other all the time, but no more so than we insulted each other - and everyone else - about any other physical, social or personal trait or characteristic.

One of my favorites was when Al was in one of our equipment rooms. The lights had gone out and he was rummaging in the back of the room for something. He was yelling for me to come help, so when I went in, I said, "Can you either smile or open your eyes so I can see where the hell you are?!" There was a great pause, then from the darkness I heard, "I fucking hate you."

It was the most racist - and completely least racist - place I've ever encountered, and I miss those days all the time.

It would be great if people could just hate someone because they've gotten to know them and they suck, and not because of some much more superfluous reason like skin color.

In short, I have no use for authority figures who are bullies, regardless of the racial dynamic. I also have no sympathy for people who want to victimize others, then cry foul when things go wrong when they are confronted by authorities for their actions... Once again, regardless of the racial dynamics.

 

[GoldenDomer]

 

[phgreek]

Setting the O/U and 70.5 posts before this thread goes off the tracks.

I don't know how you have a discussion about "race" in the abstract because it's such a broad term.

My 2 cents is that "color" and "race" are daily becoming less of an issue because there are so many people now who are "mixed" whereas decades and centuries ago interracial marriages were much more frowned upon (if not outright forbidden by law in some cases). As more and more of that happens it becomes less "them" than "us" when talking about people from different heritages.

For my personal experiences, I'm mixed Latino and "white." Latino enough to check the box, receive scholarships, and literally have a family member get mistaken as a valet at a fancy restaurant on account of color... but white enough (thanks, mom #whiteprivilege) that if you didn't see me with a heavy tan or saw my last name or saw me around the rest of my family you'd almost just certainly lump me in the bin "white" at first glance. At my current job, my office is incredibly diverse with a lot of the talent being foreign nationals. It doesn't matter where you're from or what you look like, the hiring process is all about being the most qualified. I've never seen the race topic broached once. On my side of the office we have:
-6 "black" (Sudan, Philadelphia, North Carolina, Jamaica, DC, and one I don't know)
-8 "white" (from all over the US + 1 Ukranian guy)
-4 Hispanic/Latino (I think all born but they're all fluent Spanish or Portuguese speakers)
-6 "Asian" (2x India, Nepal, Bangladesh, Turkey, Iran)

Everyone is a happy family. No one needs a "healthy discussion on race" to get through their day treating people as people. And that doesn't even account for all the different religions... so it's always hard for me to appreciate that there is some hypothetical larger over-arching race problem in this country. IMO, you've got a lot of people invested in warping isolated incidents into a narrative in order to justify their existence, and I don't think that's ever going to change. And then you've got maybe the 5% of this country that are actually overtly racist and I don't know what you can do to change someone like that.

I'll close with this fun/incendiary anecdote... the most openly racist people I've ever met are Koreans, and it's not even close.

Pretty much covers my sentiment on the race issue day-to-day. I will say though, that I hope for every people who identify as minority...that they raise leaders who focus on real progress...that move forward with hope, and a vision that unites. Those who make a very tidy living Warping incidents should simply be discarded as the wrong tool for the job at hand.

 

[Black Irish]

Why is it that a mixed (black ad white) person gets to claim they are "Black"?

I ask this because I think it is such an important sign in what is wrong with society, IMO. Is it to support the fight against racism? Does that mean you are accepting the issues that do come with choosing to announce "black" over white?

Want to be very clear in that I am not trying to be an ass. I have never understood why this is and even my friends who are mixed haven't given me a great reason. The person that I can have these kinds of conversations with the most, that I think is a very smart individual, is all about people being people and won't really venture into that conversation.

I've wondered about this myself. It's probably a combination of things. Usually, if someone is half black and half white, it's pretty hard to hide the black half (think President Obama). So since they get lumped in as black anyway, they just go with it. Now some people do go the other way. Vin Deisel, for instance, has very deliberately stayed away from a black identity in his film & celebrity career. He's taken some flack for that. And sometimes, the media gives you no choice. Tiger Woods is half Asian, a quarter black, and a quarter white. But he's always been "The Black Golf Champ" even though he has also stayed away from a black identity. I suppose it's a matter of personal preference, but I also think that it depends on how you were raised, and what part of your heritage you choose to put first. And sometimes, your surroundings force the choice on you.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Everyone is a happy family. No one needs a "healthy discussion on race" to get through their day treating people as people.

And most of us don't have issues or problems with those of other races at this level. We get along fine with our neighbors, friends, and coworkers from the "other side." We see them as individuals, we know them, we trust them, and we like them. This is more about how we as Whites or Blacks view the other side as a group. That's where the problem seems to be and what I'm hoping we can deal with in this discussion.