Last Bad Coaching Hire at Major Programs

[Irishize]

Realizing we don’t know much about Ryan Day as a HC, it got me thinking that the Buckeyes haven’t had a bad coaching hire in our lifetime: Woody Hayes, Earle Bruce, John Cooper, Jim Tressel & Urban Meyer. All these guys are current or future Hall-of-Famers. Not many programs can say that...even the blue bloods like Bama, ND, PSU, Michigan, USC, etc.

Here’s a list of some of the most storied programs and, IMO; their last bad hire.

Clemson - Tommy West
Bama - Mike Shula
OSU - ?
OU - John Blake
ND - Charlie Weis
LSU - Gerry DiNardo
UGA - Ray Goff
UF - Ron Zook
Texas - John Mackovic
Washington - Ty Willingham
Michigan - Brady Hoke
Michigan State - John L. Smith
Miami - Al Golden
USC - Steve Sarkisian (Helton could replace him this year)
Tennessee - Butch Jones
PSU - ?
FSU - ?
Stanford - Buddy Teevens
Georgia Tech - Bill Curry


Feel free to add other teams I may have omitted or correct my choices if you deem a more recent hire who could be termed bad.

 

[NDMIA]

Realizing we don’t know much about Ryan Day as a HC, it got me thinking that the Buckeyes haven’t had a bad coaching hire in our lifetime: Woody Hayes, Earle Bruce, John Cooper, Jim Tressel & Urban Meyer. All these guys are current or future Hall-of-Famers. Not many programs can say that...even the blue bloods like Bama, ND, PSU, Michigan, USC, etc.

Here’s a list of some of the most storied programs and, IMO; their last bad hire.

Clemson - Tommy West
Bama - Mike Shula
OSU - ?
OU - John Blake
ND - Charlie Weis
LSU - Gerry DiNardo
UGA - Ray Goff
UF - Ron Zook
Texas - John Mackovic
Washington - Ty Willingham
Michigan - Brady Hoke
Michigan State - John L. Smith
Miami - Al Golden
USC - Steve Sarkisian (Helton could replace him this year)
Tennessee - Butch Jones
PSU - ?
FSU - ?
Stanford - Buddy Teevens
Georgia Tech - Bill Curry


Feel free to add other teams I may have omitted or correct my choices if you deem a more recent hire who could be termed bad.

Unless something crazy happens, Willie Taggart will have probably the worst recruiting class in the last 15 cycles at FSU along with an okay class last cycle. He inherited a top 5 team in team talent on 247 and went 5-7 and 2019 doesn’t look like it’ll be better by a ton. Unless drastic changes happen then he’ll end up having been a bad hire. Needs to turn it around fast.

 

[DONTH8]

Realizing we don’t know much about Ryan Day as a HC, it got me thinking that the Buckeyes haven’t had a bad coaching hire in our lifetime: Woody Hayes, Earle Bruce, John Cooper, Jim Tressel & Urban Meyer. All these guys are current or future Hall-of-Famers. Not many programs can say that...even the blue bloods like Bama, ND, PSU, Michigan, USC, etc.

Here’s a list of some of the most storied programs and, IMO; their last bad hire.

Clemson - Tommy West
Bama - Mike Shula
OSU - ?
OU - John Blake
ND - Charlie Weis
LSU - Gerry DiNardo
UGA - Ray Goff
UF - Ron Zook
Texas - John Mackovic
Washington - Ty Willingham
Michigan - Brady Hoke
Michigan State - John L. Smith
Miami - Al Golden
USC - Steve Sarkisian (Helton could replace him this year)
Tennessee - Butch Jones
PSU - ?
FSU - ?
Stanford - Buddy Teevens
Georgia Tech - Bill Curry


Feel free to add other teams I may have omitted or correct my choices if you deem a more recent hire who could be termed bad.

Charlie Strong at Texas would be one that I would argue for. He just doesn't fit Texas football, simple as that. Not a bad coach, but a bad hire given the circumstances. They should have known better.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Bill Lewis was much worse than Curry at Tech.

Curry inherited a lukewarm program and didn't do much of anything with it.

Lewis inherited a program that was a year removed from a National Championship and had three straight losing seasons, including getting fired midway through his third year after starting the year 1-7.

 

[ulukinatme]

Charlie Strong at Texas would be one that I would argue for. He just doesn't fit Texas football, simple as that. Not a bad coach, but a bad hire given the circumstances. They should have known better.

Strong could have worked at Texas. He turned around Louisville to a respectable team in a few seasons. Was he ready for the Longhorns? Probably not, and honestly Mac Brown hadn't left them in a great position. Brown's overall recruiting was still very good at some positions, but he failed greatly at recruiting QBs after Colt McCoy (Thought Johnny Football was better as a Safety, and passed on JT Barrett who wanted to be a Longhorn) and his OL left much to be desired too, among others. In any case, Strong was a hot commodity when he went to Texas, coming off successful tenures as Urban's DC and then the Louisville job. I think Strong did help make Texas a more attractive position by the time he left.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Charlie Strong at Texas would be one that I would argue for. He just doesn't fit Texas football, simple as that. Not a bad coach, but a bad hire given the circumstances. They should have known better.

Who else was a serious candidate for that position though? From what I remember, it was Saban or bust and they were scrambling to find other candidates. I thought that Art Briles and Mark Dantonio both turned down interviews.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I think they needed Strong to kill the dead wood before somebody else could come in there and fix it. Obviously that's not what they were going for, but the program was incredibly complacent and had pretty bad culture problems before Strong.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think we need to add Michigan State here and John L Smith

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RlUO-7m9RuA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HvrRvUYRdD8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What is with John L Smith and slaps?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/L7nny1eAcgo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And of course because of John L Smith's choke against the Irish it gave us "The Rant."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xPvftOCA-9I" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[BabyIrish]

Was Charlie Weis really a bad hire?
I know that his results on the field weren't what they should be, but I think the way he recruited and some of the facility upgrades left the next coach an opportunity to possibly excel at the position afterwards. I think Willingham or Davie left the program in much worse hands then Weis ever did.

 

[dublinirish]

UF - Will Muschamp for sure. And Michigan is Jim Harbaugh - same record as Hoke

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Was Charlie Weis really a bad hire?
I know that his results on the field weren't what they should be, but I think the way he recruited and some of the facility upgrades left the next coach an opportunity to possibly excel at the position afterwards. I think Willingham or Davie left the program in much worse hands then Weis ever did.

I think so, when you look back on it he didn't have any head coaching experience and he was simply an offensive minded coach and his defenses over the 5 years he was here showed it. His two most successful seasons were his first two years when he was using Ty Willinghams leftovers, albeit in a much better fashion.

Year three, which is a key year for a new head coach because their first couple of recruting classes are upper classmen and "his guys" begin to take form on the roster, was an absolute debacle 3-9 season for Charlie.

He had all-world talent in Kyle Rudolph, Golden Tate, Jimmy Clausen, Michael Floyd and co. and couldn't do better than 6-6 in back to back seasons. I don't think you'll find too many defending against Charlie being a bad hire.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

UF - Will Muschamp for sure. And Michigan is Jim Harbaugh - same record as Hoke

I was going to chime in on Harbaugh; I don't now that you can say he was a "bad" hire YET, at least to the tune of the guys on this list, but utterly disappointing given the hype for sure.

But he is certainly trending towards bad, especially at that money.

I can't see them being a better team than they were last year, considering they lost all of that talent on defense. Sure, they return a lot of talent on offense but what have we seen from them offensively under Harbaugh to suggest that unit could carry them to a 10-2 record like their defense has? I just don't see it.

 

[Irishize]

Charlie Strong at Texas would be one that I would argue for. He just doesn't fit Texas football, simple as that. Not a bad coach, but a bad hire given the circumstances. They should have known better.

Great point. I totally overlooked him as his tenure was easily forgettable.

 

[Irishize]

Bill Lewis was much worse than Curry at Tech.

Curry inherited a lukewarm program and didn't do much of anything with it.

Lewis inherited a program that was a year removed from a National Championship and had three straight losing seasons, including getting fired midway through his third year after starting the year 1-7.

Duly noted. Thanks

 

[Irishize]

Was Charlie Weis really a bad hire?
I know that his results on the field weren't what they should be, but I think the way he recruited and some of the facility upgrades left the next coach an opportunity to possibly excel at the position afterwards. I think Willingham or Davie left the program in much worse hands then Weis ever did.

I agree w/ your last statement but that 2009 team had too much talent to be a .500 team. Any semblance of defense & they finish ranked w/ a likely win over SC and Weis doesn’t get fired. As w/ Gerry Faust & Davie, Weis was evidence that ND should rule out any candidates that have never been a HC on the college level 99% of the time.

 

[Irishize]

UF - Will Muschamp for sure. And Michigan is Jim Harbaugh - same record as Hoke

Agree w/ Muschamp. Harbaugh is TBD as his AD has all but said that Harbaugh is their HC for as long as he wants it. This year should be the tipping point as he has an opening to finally beat tOSU: no Urban Meyer & the game is at home.

 

[Irishize]

I think we need to add Michigan State here and John L Smith

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RlUO-7m9RuA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HvrRvUYRdD8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What is with John L Smith and slaps?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/L7nny1eAcgo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And of course because of John L Smith's choke against the Irish it gave us "The Rant."

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xPvftOCA-9I" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I included him on my list

 

[Irishize]

Unless something crazy happens, Willie Taggart will have probably the worst recruiting class in the last 15 cycles at FSU along with an okay class last cycle. He inherited a top 5 team in team talent on 247 and went 5-7 and 2019 doesn’t look like it’ll be better by a ton. Unless drastic changes happen then he’ll end up having been a bad hire. Needs to turn it around fast.

Yes, Taggart & Clay Helton are in limbo w/ this discussion as it’s too early to tell but it’s not trending well for either of them. We should know about Helton by the time he travels to South Bend b/c they have a front loaded schedule w/ Utah, Stanford & UW.

 

[GowerND11]

Unless something crazy happens, Willie Taggart will have probably the worst recruiting class in the last 15 cycles at FSU along with an okay class last cycle. He inherited a top 5 team in team talent on 247 and went 5-7 and 2019 doesn’t look like it’ll be better by a ton. Unless drastic changes happen then he’ll end up having been a bad hire. Needs to turn it around fast.

Willie Taggart is the scapegoat that everything will fall on. Jimbo lost control of that program. Jameis was allowed to do whatever he wanted. OL recruiting was bad, and busts. Taggart may get fired, but he, like Charlie Strong, will probably be the guy that guts and cleans the program for the next coach to have a chance to succeed.

 

[Henges24]

Was Charlie Weis really a bad hire?
I know that his results on the field weren't what they should be, but I think the way he recruited and some of the facility upgrades left the next coach an opportunity to possibly excel at the position afterwards. I think Willingham or Davie left the program in much worse hands then Weis ever did.

I think Willingham was the worse coach but Weis takes the cake for how much ND paid him after he was fired, IMO.

Weis had some of the most exciting offenses I can remember at ND. Gun slinger Clausen, Quinn, Shark, Golden, Stovall, McKnight. Those guys were fun to watch.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I think Willingham was the worse coach but Weis takes the cake for how much ND paid him after he was fired, IMO.

Weis had some of the most exciting offenses I can remember at ND. Gun slinger Clausen, Quinn, Shark, Golden, Stovall, McKnight. Those guys were fun to watch.

I'll add to my post above and this one as well, outside of @ scUM '05 (the last time we won @ the *hit House) he never won the big games IIRC. Pulled an upset against Tennessee in Knoxville during the down years I guess, if you want to count that.

 

[DONTH8]

Strong could have worked at Texas. He turned around Louisville to a respectable team in a few seasons. Was he ready for the Longhorns? Probably not, and honestly Mac Brown hadn't left them in a great position. Brown's overall recruiting was still very good at some positions, but he failed greatly at recruiting QBs after Colt McCoy (Thought Johnny Football was better as a Safety, and passed on JT Barrett who wanted to be a Longhorn) and his OL left much to be desired too, among others. In any case, Strong was a hot commodity when he went to Texas, coming off successful tenures as Urban's DC and then the Louisville job. I think Strong did help make Texas a more attractive position by the time he left.

I agree 100% about Brown leaving them in a bad/undesirable place. I mentioned the fact that Strong is a good coach imo, but just doesn't fit Texas. It's a whole other world down there. Style of offense has to match what kids down there play or you're basically going to be unable to recruit at a high enough rate to be successful. So maybe you could say he assembled a bad cast of coaches, but that's on him.

I can go on about how Texas football culture breeds entitlement issues, and requires a coach to embrace that fact and spin it to his advantage. Things that I don't think Strong would ever do. Basically if you thought that Naz was bad with McCarthy, you should see some of the coaches down there when they feel slighted. We all agree it's a bit much. Strong would agree with us. But that doesn't bode well if you want to succeed down there. Like I said cultural clash. Strong was a hot commodity, bu they should have realized in the first 5 minutes of the interview this wasn't a good fit imo, and gotten someone else, even if it was an up and coming coordinator or something.

He did a great job in culture fixes in the discipline and entitlement areas of the team, but ask Texas fans if they care at all about culture as long as they're winning.

 

[stlnd01]

Was Charlie Weis really a bad hire?
I know that his results on the field weren't what they should be, but I think the way he recruited and some of the facility upgrades left the next coach an opportunity to possibly excel at the position afterwards. I think Willingham or Davie left the program in much worse hands then Weis ever did.

Yes. He showed ND could recruit elite skill position players but failed to develop the things that you need to win at a sustained level - depth, line play, defense - perhaps in part because he’d never coached or played college football and wasn’t equipped for the ways it’s different than the NFL
Also, by some accounts, the culture around the program was pretty lousy by the end of his tenure. Star systems and whatnot.
It took BK a couple years to rebuild the broken systems Weis left behind.

 

[KizerWilhelm]

Realizing we don’t know much about Ryan Day as a HC, it got me thinking that the Buckeyes haven’t had a bad coaching hire in our lifetime: Woody Hayes, Earle Bruce, John Cooper, Jim Tressel & Urban Meyer. All these guys are current or future Hall-of-Famers. Not many programs can say that...even the blue bloods like Bama, ND, PSU, Michigan, USC, etc.

Here’s a list of some of the most storied programs and, IMO; their last bad hire.

Clemson - Tommy West
Bama - Mike Shula
OSU - ?
OU - John Blake
ND - Charlie Weis
LSU - Gerry DiNardo
UGA - Ray Goff
UF - Ron Zook
Texas - John Mackovic
Washington - Ty Willingham
Michigan - Brady Hoke
Michigan State - John L. Smith
Miami - Al Golden
USC - Steve Sarkisian (Helton could replace him this year)
Tennessee - Butch Jones
PSU - ?
FSU - ?
Stanford - Buddy Teevens
Georgia Tech - Bill Curry


Feel free to add other teams I may have omitted or correct my choices if you deem a more recent hire who could be termed bad.

Texas is Charlie Strong. I'll predict that before long, Oregeron, Helton, and Taggart will be the answers for their schools.

idk why Georgia Tech is on the list, I don't consider them a major program at all.

 

[Irishize]

Willie Taggart is the scapegoat that everything will fall on. Jimbo lost control of that program. Jameis was allowed to do whatever he wanted. OL recruiting was bad, and busts. Taggart may get fired, but he, like Charlie Strong, will probably be the guy that guts and cleans the program for the next coach to have a chance to succeed.

I agree. Jimbo burned that program to the ground. I think it’s evidenced in that he didn’t bring any assistants with him to TAMU.

 

[Irishize]

I'll add to my post above and this one as well, outside of @ scUM '05 (the last time we won @ the *hit House) he never won the big games IIRC. Pulled an upset against Tennessee in Knoxville during the down years I guess, if you want to count that.

I liked the Weis era better than the Ty era but I’d argue Willingham had more impressive wins which made his teams that much more maddening. In 2004 (his final season) his team pulled two upsets over top 10 teams (at the time but they still finished in the Top 13) in Michigan & at Tennessee. That scUM team finished 9-2 losing a nail biter to Vince Young in the Rose Bowl. That UT team won the SEC East and finished 10-3. For me, that’s facts over feelings b/c I’d take Weis over Ty if I had to choose which one of those I”d want as HC.

 

[Irishize]

Texas is Charlie Strong. I'll predict that before long, Oregeron, Helton, and Taggart will be the answers for their schools.

idk why Georgia Tech is on the list, I don't consider them a major program at all.

I said “most storied” based on HCs John Heisman & Bobby Dodd. Plus, they’ve won a NC more recently than their rival Georgia among other great programs like ND & PSU. Are they a major program today? Probably not, but w/ the right HC, they can be. ACC, based in Atlanta, good academics. No reason why they can’t be a player in the ACC.

 

[ulukinatme]

I liked the Weis era better than the Ty era but I’d argue Willingham had more impressive wins which made his teams that much more maddening. In 2004 (his final season) his team pulled two upsets over top 10 teams (at the time but they still finished in the Top 13) in Michigan & at Tennessee. That scUM team finished 9-2 losing a nail biter to Vince Young in the Rose Bowl. That UT team won the SEC East and finished 10-3. For me, that’s facts over feelings b/c I’d take Weis over Ty if I had to choose which one of those I”d want as HC.

To be fair, Weis was robbed of a win against #1 USC in 2005 (Thanks, PAC10 refs!). If not for Vince Young's final second heroics, USC is champs again in '05. The win against Michigan in the Big House in 2005 was a good win too, that Michigan team was better than their record.

The thing about Willingham's teams is they never were complete teams...not that Weis had much going for him besides offense, but Willingham's teams often seemed to win despite their own failings. It often seemed like they won completely due to decent defense and head scratching luck. Former QB Arnaz Battle catching a pass from walk-on backup Pat Dillingham to finally beat Michigan State in the final minutes of the 4th quarter...games like that were unbelievable but for the wrong reasons. We had no business beating that team, just like we had no business beating Florida State, but that defense felt slighted by the media at the beginning of the season and they often had to will the team to victory and do the scoring themselves. The biggest difference between Weis and Willingham is that Willingham was just never competitive against our rivals. Ty was destroyed by USC all 3 times he faced them (30+ point differentials). He couldn't beat BC, 0-3. He got embarrassed by Purdue, only beating them once. He also struggled with Pitt. He was lucky to have a winning record against Michigan as the wheels were just starting to come off that program. Weis was at least hanging with USC, even if he got blown out in some other contests.

Overall it just seemed obvious toward the end that the team was regressing and recruiting was taking nose dive, something that would hurt Weis in 2007 when the team was woefully untalented. Ty's full recruiting classes ranked 12th, 32nd, and 40th, and those rankings were generous. When you go back and look at the roster that would be upperclassmen for 2007 it makes you cringe. For those reasons I don't completely fault Weis for 2007, although he certainly shoulders much of the blame. They lost to unranked BYU, BC, and Pitt, in addition to getting blown out by Purdue and USC. At the very least the cupboard was not bare when Kelly took over, and there was a much better foundation in place. When you think of how bad this team had been from the mid 90s till 2012, it's amazing Kelly has found the success he's had the last 7 years.

 

[stlnd01]

Fair enough, ulukin. But the question wasn’t “worst hire” (that may be Willingham). It was “most recent bad hire.” We made two bad hires in a row. Many would say three.

 

[Irish#1]

PSU = Paterno. Do I need to explain?