Jonas Gray Better than Armando

[jason_h537]

however I think Gray should've had the call for the TD on Saturday.

I was thinkin the same thing. Let the guy get his first TD

 

[BeatSC]

Hughes to FB

Hughes to FB

I think Hughes shold be moved to FB to add some depth.While it is great to have an all around RB if a back is in for a run play I am interested in their running skills. I think Riddick showed better instincts and ran with more authority than either Jonas or AA. I think Wood should go Redshirt. We have enough quality backs for returns.

 

[BGIF]

I think Hughes shold be moved to FB to add some depth. ...

Hughes has already been moved to FB per Charlie's press conference Tuesday. When Aldridge is back, he'll return to RB.

Wood and Riddick may be All-American RBs someday but right now they're one game removed from HS. Trusting Clausen's health to guys that don't know how to pick up the blitz or what to do on an audible is poor coaching. Even with Hughes back at RB, ND has limited depth. USC has 6 experienced guys that they can rotate throughout the game. Means fresh legs in the 4th Q when the defense is tired.

Weis gave carries to 6 backs Saturday against an opponent he could afford to. The newbies despite their "instincts" will continue to learn the playbook, defenses, and adjust to Div 1 speed of play in the meantime. Then they won't have to say, "Gee Jimmy, I though I was supposed to go out on a pass for that audible, sorry. Can you move your legs yet?"

 

[irishfan]

I think Hughes shold be moved to FB to add some depth.While it is great to have an all around RB if a back is in for a run play I am interested in their running skills. I think Riddick showed better instincts and ran with more authority than either Jonas or AA. I think Wood should go Redshirt. We have enough quality backs for returns.

riddick will be a stud one day, and might be one on returns this year, but you really think he ran with more authority/instincts? is that based on his impressive, yet unnecessary jump he made over a blocker on the ground on a play where he came dangerously close to hyperextending his knee (check the replay if you dont believe me-very dangerous to try and cut/juke that soon after landing) or his failure to convert a 2nd and 2 with two straight carries?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

People always seem to think the next guy is better. Last year people wanted Clausen benched for Crist. Your already hearing that Theo should play more and where is Wood. Gray has great tools and has moved into the #2 but your opinion is based entirely on what you see in 3 minute clips at practice and a few plays against the 2nd team in garbage time in a game.

Hughes is also my favorite RB NDinLA. Maybe it was because his prother died but i got alot of love for that kid. I hope he turns it around.

I never called for Clausen to be benched and I haven't said a word about Theo.

My opinion is based on what he did last year (few nice flashes), what we see in practice, and his run that should have been a TD on saturday was against nevada's first team. I know Armando has been the man for 2 years, but there has to be something we don't know. Jonas should be getting more touches. It has to be mental (blitz pickups, etc.) that is keeping AA on the field the most.

Physically Jonas has more to offer than Armando.

 

[BGIF]

I'm convinced. He's bigger, just as quick, blocks well, breaks more tackles, and can catch.

Any arguments for either side?

Allen is one game into his Junior season and he's 2nd on ND's All-Time List of Receptions by a RB with 77. Clausen threw most if not all of them. Allen and Clausen are on the same page just like Clausen and Floyd and Clausen and Tate.


Clausen, the OLine, Rudolph and Ragone, Floyd and Tate, and Allen. Think about it - it's 5 wide with run potential.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Makes sense. Good point. I guess I (and others) am still waiting (after 16 games) for AA to break one of those 60 or 70 yarders (hawaii aside) and stop getting tripped up after one shoelace grab.

Like I said I hope he proves me wrong because 586 yards rushing in a year doesn't cut it (not all his fault, I know.)

Personally I hope Charlie is saving Jonas for Saturday going home to play in the big house.

 

[BGIF]

Makes sense. Good point. I guess I (and others) am still waiting (after 16 games) for AA to break one of those 60 or 70 yarders (hawaii aside) and stop getting tripped up after one shoelace grab.

I still waiting for Autry Denson to break one of those 60 or 70 yarders. 854 carriers and his longest run was 54 yards and he didn't score. Darius didn't do it either.

I believe Brady Quinn had a 60 yd scramble. Don't recall Julius Jones with 70 yarders either. Last big run I can think of was Robert Farmer in '96. It was either 2nd or 3rd and short and BC packed the box (like Florida did with Bettis in the Sugar Bowl) once Farmer took the triple option pitch and turned the corner there was no one in the secondary to stop him.

Like I said I hope he proves me wrong because 586 yards rushing in a year doesn't cut it (not all his fault, I know.).

When Denson, Pinkett, and Ferguson ran for a 1,000 yards, they got to carry the ball 250-300 times a season. Allen only had 134 carries last season. Double his carries to their workload and damn he's a 1,100 yard man!

Personally I hope Charlie is saving Jonas for Saturday going home to play in the big house.

Yeah, let's sit the man with over a 1,000 career yards rushing for the guy that just broke 100 for his career, because the other guy "looks better".

 

[jason_h537]

I never called for Clausen to be benched and I haven't said a word about Theo.

My opinion is based on what he did last year (few nice flashes), what we see in practice, and his run that should have been a TD on saturday was against nevada's first team. I know Armando has been the man for 2 years, but there has to be something we don't know. Jonas should be getting more touches. It has to be mental (blitz pickups, etc.) that is keeping AA on the field the most.

Physically Jonas has more to offer than Armando.

I was using your post to refer to other posters who always seem to think the next guy is better than what we have. Have you considered that maybe the coaching staff just feels AA is a better running back at this point tha Jonas Gray?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Yep.

 

[ErickJD08]

I still waiting for Autry Denson to break one of those 60 or 70 yarders. 854 carriers and his longest run was 54 yards and he didn't score. Darius didn't do it either.

I believe Brady Quinn had a 60 yd scramble. Don't recall Julius Jones with 70 yarders either. Last big run I can think of was Robert Farmer in '96. It was either 2nd or 3rd and short and BC packed the box (like Florida did with Bettis in the Sugar Bowl) once Farmer took the triple option pitch and turned the corner there was no one in the secondary to stop him.





When Denson, Pinkett, and Ferguson ran for a 1,000 yards, they got to carry the ball 250-300 times a season. Allen only had 134 carries last season. Double his carries to their workload and damn he's a 1,100 yard man!




Yeah, let's sit the man with over a 1,000 career yards rushing for the guy that just broke 100 for his career, because the other guy "looks better".

HA... are you one of the coaches? Because that's the mentality they probably use. Your right, Teo should ride the bench, he just has 3 tackles in about 7 plays. That's probably why Floyd didn't start til the fourth game even though the whole stadium knew he should have played every down after the first game. And a majority of every memorable plays from 2007 were made by Tate and he rode the bench that season. And Gray has played 3 games has a long run in every game that beats or comes close to beating AA's career long. I am not saying bench AA because he is reliable but I think we need to give other guys touches and continue to look for our gamebreaker because I think he is on the team this year.

 

[irishfan]

HA... are you one of the coaches? Because that's the mentality they probably use. Your right, Teo should ride the bench, he just has 3 tackles in about 7 plays. That's probably why Floyd didn't start til the fourth game even though the whole stadium knew he should have played every down after the first game. And a majority of every memorable plays from 2007 were made by Tate and he rode the bench that season. And Gray has played 3 games has a long run in every game that beats or comes close to beating AA's career long. I am not saying bench AA because he is reliable but I think we need to give other guys touches and continue to look for our gamebreaker because I think he is on the team this year.

Gray's long run against Navy last year was 7 yards. He has two 19 yard runs in his career. He's played three games, never scored a TD, and you're proclaiming him as our "gamebreaker" already? Armando is the playmaker. He has the speed, experience, and atleast in the Nevada game, read his blocks extremely well. Kind of annoying to hear people complain about him getting tackled by safeties, when they take McCarthy's and Harrison Smith's own tackling abilities for granted. Once Armando breaks one big run, it's over for the defense. He just needs one big run, and he'll be breaking 20+ yarders left and right.

 

[ErickJD08]

Gray's long run against Navy last year was 7 yards. He has two 19 yard runs in his career. He's played three games, never scored a TD, and you're proclaiming him as our "gamebreaker" already? Armando is the playmaker. He has the speed, experience, and atleast in the Nevada game, read his blocks extremely well. Kind of annoying to hear people complain about him getting tackled by safeties, when they take McCarthy's and Harrison Smith's own tackling abilities for granted. Once Armando breaks one big run, it's over for the defense. He just needs one big run, and he'll be breaking 20+ yarders left and right.

Armando... is that you?

Dude, take out the Purdue game, just ONE GAME and it turns a poor season into pathetic. In his Purdue game, he had 134 yards out of his 585 yards for the season. He had his career long 21 yard run in that game. And he had his 1 out of 3 TDs for the season. If you take out Purdue, he averaged 3.8 per carry. What play did AA make something out of nothing?

Also, we all know Gray scored that touchdown last week. How many tackles did AA break?

Is Gray a game breaker? Who knows... I know for a fact AA is not. And after 30 carries, Gray is averaging 4.5 a carry. You can't sting together carries that would do that for AA. I really hope one of the back rips one up against Michigan and if I didn't watch the game and a HB took it to the house, I would bet it was Gray.

 

[BeatSC]

Line of scrimmage

Line of scrimmage

I think all of the backs bring a little something different to the game and whoever makes the bigs plays more power to them. All I know is it has been a long time since we have controlled the trenches and grinded out our opponent with the run. I miss that in the CW system but I am willing to forfiet that for wins. I also know we will need balance to get to the promised land (Beating SC!). As long as we can duplicate the rushing numbers from last week they can hand the ball off to Eric Penick for all I care (8o yard run against USC).

 

[NDinL.A.]

Armando... is that you?

Dude, take out the Purdue game, just ONE GAME and it turns a poor season into pathetic. In his Purdue game, he had 134 yards out of his 585 yards for the season. He had his career long 21 yard run in that game. And he had his 1 out of 3 TDs for the season. If you take out Purdue, he averaged 3.8 per carry. What play did AA make something out of nothing?

Also, we all know Gray scored that touchdown last week. How many tackles did AA break?

Is Gray a game breaker? Who knows... I know for a fact AA is not. And after 30 carries, Gray is averaging 4.5 a carry. You can't sting together carries that would do that for AA. I really hope one of the back rips one up against Michigan and if I didn't watch the game and a HB took it to the house, I would bet it was Gray.

Welcome aboard Erik.

Now, go easy on the tone. We try to keep it friendly amongst ND fans, even though it does get heated at times. No one is stating they are the end all to everything ND. It's just a discussion...no need to mock someone just because they like AA more than Gray. Guess who else likes AA over Gray? The coaches, who are there every day. And BGIF, who you first ripped on your first ever post here, knows more about ND football than most people have forgotten. People like AA, people like Gray, people like Hughes. No problem stating your point, just relax a bit.

Now, I'm not a huge AA fan, but your argument about Gray's average is not strong at all. 30 carries and that makes him a good back? Now, 30 carries against mostly 2nd and 3rd stringers, and that makes him a stronger back??? C'mon bro, that's weak. You can say he hasn't been given enough opportunity, but to say that he's better than AA because he ran for more yards per carry vs what amounts to scrubs is simply not a strong argument.

Now, judging from history, NOBODY knows which back will bust off a long run. Hasn't been Allen, that's for sure, hasn't been Gray either in his limited opportunities against 2nd stringers. COULD be Allen, based on his long screen run vs. Hawaii. COULD be Gray based on practice video. Could be Riddick based on reports, could be Wood based on reputation. Who knows?

I agree though, I don't care who does it vs. Michigan as long as it gets done.

 

[ErickJD08]

Welcome aboard Erik.

Now, go easy on the tone. We try to keep it friendly amongst ND fans, even though it does get heated at times. No one is stating they are the end all to everything ND. It's just a discussion...no need to mock someone just because they like AA more than Gray. Guess who else likes AA over Gray? The coaches, who are there every day. And BGIF, who you first ripped on your first ever post here, knows more about ND football than most people have forgotten. People like AA, people like Gray, people like Hughes. No problem stating your point, just relax a bit.

Now, I'm not a huge AA fan, but your argument about Gray's average is not strong at all. 30 carries and that makes him a good back? Now, 30 carries against mostly 2nd and 3rd stringers, and that makes him a stronger back??? C'mon bro, that's weak. You can say he hasn't been given enough opportunity, but to say that he's better than AA because he ran for more yards per carry vs what amounts to scrubs is simply not a strong argument.

Now, judging from history, NOBODY knows which back will bust off a long run. Hasn't been Allen, that's for sure, hasn't been Gray either in his limited opportunities against 2nd stringers. COULD be Allen, based on his long screen run vs. Hawaii. COULD be Gray based on practice video. Could be Riddick based on reports, could be Wood based on reputation. Who knows?

I agree though, I don't care who does it vs. Michigan as long as it gets done.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, some of that stuff was a joke but since this is not in person, I will try and work on the tone. As for the discussion, lets forget 2008 and 2007. Who did you think looked better last Saturday? Gray and AA ran against the same string of defense. For discussion sake, he did have a 20 yard TD run. He bounced off a couple of guys in the process. AA did not break one tackle last week. Personally, I think AA had better holes after I watched the game too many times. Statistically, Gray was more efficient and I thought he looked like a stronger runner. What say you?

 

[notredomer23]

Sorry, but to me Armando is clearly the better back AT THE MOMENT. 4 games from now, a season from now, but Jonas clearly isnt right now.

 

[ErickJD08]

Sorry, but to me Armando is clearly the better back AT THE MOMENT. 4 games from now, a season from now, but Jonas clearly isnt right now.

Can you point to a play or plays that would buttress your opinion? Maybe some stats???

 

[Riddickulous]

Can you point to a play or plays that would buttress your opinion? Maybe some stats???

Allen is starting.

 

[theclassickiller]

I'm convinced. He's bigger, just as quick, blocks well, breaks more tackles, and can catch.

Any arguments for either side?

ya, hes not just as quick and not as much of a receiver threat.

armando is much more dangerous. im not gonna lie, im a gray fan, but armando is the man right now and hes about to have a coming out party.

gray will pan out and start to mature and i believe he is the next guy to be the number one after armando.

too bad hughes is starting to get lost in the depth of the backs, i was huge hughes fan in 07. charlie needs to let him run to the outside and go one on one with corners like he did in 2007, stop running him up the middle. i know he looks like an up the middle guy, but we saw what happened against navy and stanford when he went outside.

 

[DirtySecret]

Can you point to a play or plays that would buttress your opinion? Maybe some stats???

You can sit here and ride the Jonas Gray bus all day long, but the fact remains is the coaches think Allen is the better back.

 

[notredomer23]

Well Mr. Erik JD, I will start that the coaches see these guys 20 hours a week(70 if this was UM) and thats 20 more hours than we do

 

[JefMaj]

Well, until Gray makes a mark, breaks a few in one game that turn things around - shows that: He's the man!!!!!! It's gonna be AA. Once again, when it was 1st and ten, from the 1/2 yard line (by tomorrow I'll be calling it the 1 foot mark) - CW felt confident to hand the rock three straight times to AA and he delivered.

 

[ErickJD08]

Well Mr. Erik JD, I will start that the coaches see these guys 20 hours a week(70 if this was UM) and thats 20 more hours than we do

I see him about 3 hours a week and those are the only hours that matter.

I think its fantastic that the fanbase puts so much faith in a coaching staff. But I think my point is clear when the only retort to the statement "Gray played better than Allen." is that the coaches are starting Allen. Hopefully, coaches reward the second stringer with more reps on Saturday.

 

[irishfan]

I see him about 3 hours a week and those are the only hours that matter.

I think its fantastic that the fanbase puts so much faith in a coaching staff. But I think my point is clear when the only retort to the statement "Gray played better than Allen." is that the coaches are starting Allen. Hopefully, coaches reward the second stringer with more reps on Saturday.

TODAY'S PRACTICE

BlueandGold.com // Notre Dame Practice Report: September 8 (Pt. 2)

The running backs teamed with the quarterbacks to work on exchanges.

Armando Allen is still the best all-around option in the group. He has great speed out of the backfield and makes good decisions with the football. He has shown a disciplined attitude since camp by quickly making any adjustments based on Tony Alford’s corrections.

 

[Junkhead]

I see him about 3 hours a week and those are the only hours that matter.

I think its fantastic that the fanbase puts so much faith in a coaching staff. But I think my point is clear when the only retort to the statement "Gray played better than Allen." is that the coaches are starting Allen. Hopefully, coaches reward the second stringer with more reps on Saturday.

Jonas looked good. I thought Armando looked quicker to hit the hole (than he was last year), more decisive also. Both have a huge upside, but right now Armando is the man. I'm not sure what your agenda is, I'm thrilled to have these issues. Allen, Hughes, Aldridge, Gray, Riddick, Wood, etc. It's been stated, but this season should be a clean slate for the running game if the OL is as improved as hoped. I just don't get the sudden hatred of Allen.

 

[notredomer23]

I see him about 3 hours a week and those are the only hours that matter.

I think its fantastic that the fanbase puts so much faith in a coaching staff. But I think my point is clear when the only retort to the statement "Gray played better than Allen." is that the coaches are starting Allen. Hopefully, coaches reward the second stringer with more reps on Saturday.

Gray hasnt showed anything more that Armando has for Armando to lose that spot...

 

[aaronb]

Honestly, Allen just needs one big run and he's gonna break lose and be a stud. When he took that screen for a TD against Hawaii and for once actually seemed to run full speed, I just knew he was gonna take the next kick return to the house. You can tell he knows it too, and that's why he was so frustrated when he would break through the line and get tackled by the safety.

Armando Allen always seemed like a 3rd down back to me. I could never really understand why Charlie was so insistent on playing him every down?

He is quick, small and good in the screen/passing games.

Just not really someone you'd envision as an everydown back.

I honestly thought that James Aldridge should have been given a better shot at the job. He breaks tackles and moves the ball forward when he runs. Armando is just as likely to lose 2 than he is to gain 5.

Charlie just doesn't seem to be a fan of pounding the ball with a tailback. (Kevin Faulk,DWalker,New England short passing game)

 

[JeremyND07]

I agree Allen just fits CW style but I have a feeling that Jonas is going to break a few big runs Saturday. As long as we stop doing that delayed hand-off BS...why do we keep running that play?

 

[GoIrish41]

Armando Allen always seemed like a 3rd down back to me. I could never really understand why Charlie was so insistent on playing him every down?

IMHO, Charlie tends to get locked onto guys and seems to play them out of loyalty. It used to drive me nuts to see Travis Thomas trot onto the field.