Is Kelly a REALLY good coach?

[GoldenDomer]

His D1 record is pulled down by his first two seasons at Central Michigan. So since we are throwing away his D2 record, we might as well throw away his time at Central Michigan as well, because that isn't "Big time" football.

Only including his time at Cincinnati and Notre Dame his record is 78-26 .750. His win percentage at Grand Valley was .761. So taking away his time at Central Michigan his win percentage is eerily similar. Kelly was a good coach in D2 and is still a good coach.

Essentially, the argument made by the outside and NFL people is that his overall success outweighs his woes at Notre Dame. I would tend to agree with this after watching the last two decades of Notre Dame football. Are there better coaches? Sure. Is Kelly a good coach? Yes

Yes, he is good! I started this argument by talking about him not being ELITE. Which he simply isn't.

 

[Irishbounty28]

Then idk what they would base him being a good coach on... his charisma? If I was an NFL owner going to spend millions on a coach, I would go for a guy who has been a proven winner. I'm just not sure what else you can base a coach's achievement on besides wins.

I didn't read back to the initial post, I only saw this and ran with it. This combined with the title of the thread, I thought the argument was still if Kelly was a "good" coach. I still think he could be an elite coach, but would withhold judgement until he moves on and has an opportunity to compete at another Power-5 program/NFL. As of now though, I would agree that he is not elite.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I didn't read back to the initial post, I only saw this and ran with it. This combined with the title of the thread, I thought the argument was still if Kelly was a "good" coach. I still think he could be an elite coach, but would withhold judgement until he moves on and has an opportunity to compete at another Power-5 program/NFL. As of now though, I would agree that he is not elite.

I hear you. You're patient enough to cut him slack. I just want another National Title before I'm fading away. I'm an old guy, and haven't tasted Notre Dame dominance since my 20's.

 

[Irishbounty28]

I hear you. You're patient enough to cut him slack. I just want another National Title before I'm fading away. I'm an old guy, and haven't tasted Notre Dame dominance since my 20's.

I think that is exactly where a lot of debate stems from is age difference. I was born just a few years before Notre Dames last title, and only really remember a little of the Holtz era. Most of my experience with Notre Dame has been mediocrity, so I judge Kelly a little differently because he is the best I have seen at Notre Dame.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I think that is exactly where a lot of debate stems from is age difference. I was born just a few years before Notre Dames last title, and only really remember a little of the Holtz era. Most of my experience with Notre Dame has been mediocrity, so I judge Kelly a little differently because he is the best I have seen at Notre Dame.

That does make a lot of sense. I think a lot of the fans my age are growing impatient and just want rings. Guys your age just want something to hang your hat on!

 

[MNIrishman]

That does make a lot of sense. I think a lot of the fans my age are growing impatient and just want rings. Guys your age just want something to hang your hat on!

Yeah I became a fan of ND in Weis' 2nd year. Until the last few games of this last season, Kelly's teams have provided something that Weis never did. I'd use words like "heart," "defense," "depth, " and "teamwork" to describe it, though the reality is more ephemeral.

 

[Emcee77]

Yeah I became a fan of ND in Weis' 2nd year. Until the last few games of this last season, Kelly's teams have provided something that Weis never did. I'd use words like "heart," "defense," "depth, " and "teamwork" to describe it, though the reality is more ephemeral.

Right. It is hard for me to put my finger on it, but ND football has had some positive quality under Kelly that it just lacked under Weis. It's like a fighting spirit, maybe. The USC game was the first time that I felt like I was watching the old ND again.

 

[stlnd01]

I have a few issues with the idea of BK going to the NFL:
-He has zero ties to the NFL, he's a college coach through and through. Why go now?

This is kind of where I come down. I know "Brian Kelly" is a good answer when "experts" are asked who might fill various NFL openings. But I think a lot of that is because he's a big-name coach who'd be a realistic candidate and that' s a way to create buzz. Not because he'd actually get or take an NFL job.

I mean, the guy has never played or coached a down of professional football in his life. For all the talk that he's an offensive guru, he has no definable "system" a la Chip Kelly. He's certainly no in-game play-calling genius. Nor has he won national championships and conference titles like Pete Carroll or Steve Spurrier.

What he has done is build college football programs, designing the systems that take raw 18-year-olds and turn them into polished 22-year-olds. He's done it everywhere he's been and he's pretty good at it. But that's a very different thing than running an NFL team. I like to think the NFL is smart enough, and Kelly after his dalliance with the Eagles is wise enough, to know that.

I get that he's ambitious and there's really nowhere else to go from here. I get that he might be sick of the headaches of teenagers and the restrictions and insane demands of running Notre Dame. But if Kelly's the egomaniac we all secretly think he is, he might realize his best chance of a statue someday is actually bringing a national championship back to South Bend. Because he's not going to get one for leading the Bears to 9-7.

 

[stlnd01]

Right. It is hard for me to put my finger on it, but ND football has had some positive quality under Kelly that it just lacked under Weis. It's like a fighting spirit, maybe. The USC game was the first time that I felt like I was watching the old ND again.

As a friend of mine - a Kelly skeptic - put it: "I will say this. His teams are not pussies." (though that was before USC).

 

[Irish4Life09]

I'm not sure that I would put Les Miles ahead of BK. While I think no coach does less with more than Mark Richt, Les Miles is a close second.

Are you kidding me? I guess you seem to be forgetting the National Championship he won in 2008? I hate LSU, and I'm not really a fan of Miles,...but to say Kelly is a better coach than him is laughable.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Pelini won 9 games a year at Nebraska and they showed him the door...

And that was a terrible freaking decision. Nebraska is never going to return to their glory years of the mid-80s. Just like ND will never truly return to the glory years. The college football game has changed, and the old-money midwest schools have been hurt by the shift more than anybody. Not to say that neither team will win a natty, just that fans have to start accepting 8-10 win seasons as the norm.

 

[SoJerseyIrish]

BK>CW but I was hoping for more than 7-8 win seasons, I don't expect NC every year but it would be nice to be in the conversation and to consistently beat those teams we should beat on our schedule. I can handle losses to FSU, I can't losses to teams that are clearly lesser than us.

 

[wizards8507]

As a friend of mine - a Kelly skeptic - put it: "I will say this. His teams are not pussies."

Really? I feel like we're one of the softest teams I've ever seen. Our baddest dude under Kelly was a friendly Hawaiian guy with a fake girlfriend. Second baddest dude was a 325 pound teddy bear famous for his YouTube comedy.

 

[NDRock]

Really? I feel like we're one of the softest teams I've ever seen. Our baddest dude under Kelly was a friendly Hawaiian guy with a fake girlfriend. Second baddest dude was a 325 pound teddy bear famous for his YouTube comedy.

Unfortunately, the type of kids that are attracted to a place like ND don't seem to be "bad dudes". Not saying that they can't be tough, physical football players but I think it takes a little more to get that out of them.

 

[NDohio]

Actually among other fan bases he is seen a a egomanic with a bad temper. Now throw on top the bad decisions he has made coaching people view him as an average coach. A gauge is if other fan bases want your coach and I can't find one that wants Kelly(Minus low teams).

Besides his agent or Mort(who shares agents)where else are people clamoring for Kelly? The random person mentions he maybe wanted by an NFL team, goodness knows where that was leaked.maybe trance Armstrong leaked it?

When BK's name was being floated out there for FL, I went to a couple of their forums and was surprised at the reactions by most of their fans. I would say 70-75% of them were pretty excited that his name was being brought up. Many of the posters, whether they wanted him or not, discussed that he has to be a good coach to have the kind of success he has had at ND.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Unfortunately, the type of kids that are attracted to a place like ND don't seem to be "bad dudes". Not saying that they can't be tough, physical football players but I think it takes a little more to get that out of them.

This is why Longo needs to go. He's with them more than anyone. Its his job to develop a particular mentality and body type. Unfortunately we have Nice guy mentality's and bodies built of glass.

 

[koonja]

This is why Longo needs to go. He's with them more than anyone. Its his job to develop a particular mentality and body type. Unfortunately we have Nice guy mentality's and bodies built of glass.

 

[Cali_domer]

BK>CW but I was hoping for more than 7-8 win seasons, I don't expect NC every year but it would be nice to be in the conversation and to consistently beat those teams we should beat on our schedule. I can handle losses to FSU, I can't losses to teams that are clearly lesser than us.

If Charlie Weis is our gauge then we're golden. But I hope we shoot higher then Charlie lol. And I agree Kelly is better then Charlie and all the other coaches we have had since Lou(I think O'leary is a better coach then Kelly but we never got to see him coach)..

 

[Cali_domer]

And that was a terrible freaking decision. Nebraska is never going to return to their glory years of the mid-80s. Just like ND will never truly return to the glory years. The college football game has changed, and the old-money midwest schools have been hurt by the shift more than anybody. Not to say that neither team will win a natty, just that fans have to start accepting 8-10 win seasons as the norm.

So except mediocrity? And I still say ND can compete with anyone but they have to have a ELITE coach to do so. We're miles away from having an elite coach now.

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

I didn't read any of this thread. Is he or isn't he?

 

[Cali_domer]

I didn't read any of this thread. Is he or isn't he?

Good but not elite. lol.. Sums it up

 

[GoldenDomer]

This is why Longo needs to go. He's with them more than anyone. Its his job to develop a particular mentality and body type. Unfortunately we have Nice guy mentality's and bodies built of glass.

Boom. A team's toughness is a direct reflection of their strength program. (See Scott Cochran at Bama)

 

[koonja]

Boom. A team's toughness is a direct reflection of their strength program. (See Scott Cochran at Bama)

I'm so damn happy I could cry right now. I love you both.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I'm so damn happy I could cry right now. I love you both.

Lol, the proof is in the pudding.

Who is going to get you more fired up and get more out of you?

 

[kmoose]

I hear you. You're patient enough to cut him slack. I just want another National Title before I'm fading away. I'm an old guy, and haven't tasted Notre Dame dominance since my 20's.

Yes. Because the whole multi-billion dollar, multi-national, multi-cultural, elite academic institution that is the University of Notre Dame exists only for your personal well being and good feelings. I get what you are saying about wanting to see the team return to the dominance of the late 80s and early 90s, but the truth of the matter is that the football team always has (and always will) supported the overall mission of the University. Not the other way around. And the University of Notre Dame is not going to compromise their principles of high quality people and admit the Cam Newtons, Lawrence Phillipses, and Tyron Mathieus of the world, just to field a dominant football program.

 

[GoldenDomer]

Yes. Because the whole multi-billion dollar, multi-national, multi-cultural, elite academic institution that is the University of Notre Dame exists only for your personal well being and good feelings. I get what you are saying about wanting to see the team return to the dominance of the late 80s and early 90s, but the truth of the matter is that the football team always has (and always will) supported the overall mission of the University. Not the other way around. And the University of Notre Dame is not going to compromise their principles of high quality people and admit the Cam Newtons, Lawrence Phillipses, and Tyron Mathieus of the world, just to field a dominant football program.

They don't have to! Let me ask you this in the spirit of this thread, could Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, and Bill Snyder compete for/win titles with the kind of talent we have had under Kelly?

 

[kmoose]

They don't have to! Let me ask you this in the spirit of this thread, could Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, and Bill Snyder compete for/win titles with the kind of talent we have had under Kelly?

I don't know. And neither do you. Everyone thought Rich Rodriguez was some kind of offensive genius, not all that long ago. Then he went to Michigan, had to actually observe the NCAA limits on how many hours he could "practice" kids during the season, and he struggled to get above .500 in his third year. I'm not sure that Nick Saban would fair all that much better, given the academic load of students at Notre Dame. These kids cannot just eat, sleep, and breathe football. They have actual classes that they have to pass!

 

[GoldenDomer]

I don't know. And neither do you. Everyone thought Rich Rodriguez was some kind of offensive genius, not all that long ago. Then he went to Michigan, had to actually observe the NCAA limits on how many hours he could "practice" kids during the season, and he struggled to get above .500 in his third year. I'm not sure that Nick Saban would fair all that much better, given the academic load of students at Notre Dame. These kids cannot just eat, sleep, and breathe football. They have actual classes that they have to pass!

I think the view of the SEC just blowing off class is silly and only fits an agenda of excuses that other schools cant be as successful. Sure, they might get some benefits that other kids don't, but they go to class.

 

[Cali_domer]

I don't know. And neither do you. Everyone thought Rich Rodriguez was some kind of offensive genius, not all that long ago. Then he went to Michigan, had to actually observe the NCAA limits on how many hours he could "practice" kids during the season, and he struggled to get above .500 in his third year. I'm not sure that Nick Saban would fair all that much better, given the academic load of students at Notre Dame. These kids cannot just eat, sleep, and breathe football. They have actual classes that they have to pass!

ND has always made students go to class, that is nothing new. This is not new the hurdles we face. If ND wants mediocre then just join the ACC and get it over with.

I assume(most would that Meyer and Saban) those coaches would be successful here and that's a safe bet. Kelly is nowhere near them in terms of being a coach. Kelly wins 8 games or so on average so I am willing to say they could win more.

 

[koonja]

I think the view of the SEC just blowing off class is silly and only fits an agenda of excuses that other schools cant be as successful. Sure, they might get some benefits that other kids don't, but they go to class.

My man, I'm totally with you that Longo sucks, but ND students do have very different academic lives. It's not just the going to class or not going to class, it's that they have to actually work out side of class and don't get passes because they're on the sports team.

I can see the SEC players making it to 75% of their classes, but the actual work they have to do is very different I bet.