Immigration

[Bishop2b5]

There’s nothing left to surprise me with the government of Minnesota. Fraud, crime, rigged elections, insurrection, or whatever. That place is a corrupt shithole. Whoever replaces Walz will not be good. Even the Republicans suck there. They have the pillow man and the guy they ran for Senate last cycle may have been an all time stooge. The weather sucks. The people are weird. I also hate the airport.

Unfortunately, Minneapolis/SP dominate the state's government and they are just a disaster in every way. Corrupt, woke, and perfectly fine with corruption, rigged elections, violence, and so on. Most of the rest of the state is populated with rather nice, hardworking, normal people. I've spent a lot of time in western Minnesota and other than the goofy "Oh, you betcha, don't ya know" accent (which is actually sort of charming), they're salt of the Earth folks who HATE the Minneapolis loons and grifters.

 

[NDVirginia19]

I appreciate your sensitivity to the term Fascist but lighten up Francis, I was simply posting former Rep. Kinzinger's (R) title to the video he posted about staying consistent when it comes to 2nd Amendment gun rights. Those are not my words. But thank you for the douche shower Mr. Classy.



Just also be sure to note that The NRA is also calling for a "robust and comprehensive investigation that takes place to determine if the use of force was justified." And that The NRA later replied to and X post by the First Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California as "dangerous and wrong."

I obviously don't think the use of force was justified, but I don't think it was murder. From all available information, there was either a) an accidental discharge from the P320 which is notorious for having UD issues which caused the agents to fire (which is more understandable) or b) one of the ICE Agents calling out "Gun" during the removal of the firearm from Pretti (which is slightly less understandable). The apprehension of somebody who has a loaded weapon is a tense situation, made infinitely worse by dozens of people standing around blowing high pitched whistles and screaming at the agents. Both sides need to deescalate the situation. DHS coming out and calling the guy a terrorist is not helping, nor is the rhetoric from Democrats encouraging more of this behavior from their cell of civil disobedients and saying that ICE agents are executing people in the streets.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Full panic mode. And yes, they are all fucked.

 

[drayer54]

Well, you're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you?

I was just there. I mean, I’m not wrong.
See-


Agree on the NRA tweet. I’m very pro 2A and trusting federal agents is a fine line, but if you carry, you really need to conduct yourself appropriately around law enforcement, even if for no other reason than self preservation.

 

[NDWarrior]

Federal agents aren't executing people. This sort of hyperbole and misrepresentation does nothing to further the discussion. They aren't out there looking for people to gun down.

I don't think he means they're going around and executing peaceful protesters in large numbers, but they are acting recklessly (btw, many hired as CBP/ICE officers are not trained properly for this role) and without impunity, since Bovine-o has effectively told his teams, you can do anything you want once a peaceful protester is anywhere near your purview. And since Noem, Stephen Miller, and Corey Lewandowski and others have pushed ICE, increasingly led by loyal CBP leaders like Bovine-o, who are more aligned with a go after everyone, brown and illegal, in very public, confrontative ways approach, optics be damned.

You have thousands of people who are interfering with LE and Federal agents enforcing the laws enacted by a democratically elected congress... laws that aren't significantly different than those of most other countries in regards to their own immigration policies.

These are protestors exercising their 1st amendment rights to protest and be legal observers and they are not interfering with the officers. It's apparent that both Renée Good and Alex Pretti were doing just that when ICE/CBP officers outnumbering them, descended upon them aggressively with the intent to manhandle and arrest them. Neither was looking to interfere with and certainly not kill agents, just record them.

And of course there are laws and immigration enforcement needs to happen, but it's how these officers are going about enforcing the laws, again emboldened by depraved DHS leaders to do it publicly and aggressively, with no concern for due process or legal status. The brutality is the point. They seek confrontation.

Lastly, LE and Federal agents are not quite the accurate terms for these forces since these are officers being hired with minimum background checks and efforts, and many hired from the ranks of white supremacy groups. Hell, with this latest killing, it was hard to tell if the group of officers attacking Pretti were even ICE or CBP officers as other than their masks giving them away, their street attire didn't even reflect them being with ICE/CBP.

Now, if people disagree with those laws, that's fine. That's their right, but refusing to obey them because they disagree with them is not OK, and harassing and interfering with LE and federal agents lawfully enforcing those laws is absolutely not OK. Confronting the officers who are doing their job, harassing them, threatening them, assaulting them, and interfering with them doing their job is not only not OK, but is all but guaranteed to lead to a bad outcome. The protestors are in the wrong. Period. They are interfering with the lawful enforcement of federal laws.

There may be some instances of overzealous protestors I'm sure, but most are peacefully protesting and serving as observers, like Good and Pretti were, and are not disobeying any laws or interfering with officers. Officers could have driven and moved around both Good and Pretti and had no need to go after them, but they were champing at the bit to do so. The protestors are not wrong and they're not asking for a bad outcome with their behavior.

If they don't like those laws, they're free to attempt to change them by electing different lawmakers, but what they're doing now is unlawful, anarchic, and is the cause of all the violence and both shootings.

Let's hope that fair elections are held/upheld later this year so that those changes will certainly take place. No, their actions are peaceful, 1st-Amendment supported protesting and observing (and 2nd-Amendment supported carrying a concealed weapon) and not unlawful and anarchic; and are not the cause of all the violence and both shootings. The cause of both shootings are an emboldened, untrained, and lawless group of thugs playing ICE/CBP enforcement officers.


Bishop, as I said earlier today, those who still support Trump and these depraved, misguided DHS and WH leaders, have lost their way and their ability to discern between making America great again, and fucking up the hell out of it.

At this point, GOP Senators, Top CEOs, the NRA, and The Wall Street Journal, not exactly liberal bastions, are calling for a serious, objective, and unencumbered investigation into this latest shooting, if not into ICE/CBP operations; and the WSJ is advocating for ICE to just leave Minneapolis.

This is a key juncture for this admin and for our country and democracy because at this point, the government is being run by Trump and a group of depraved WH and DHS leaders who have bullied their way into power and are running the country into the ground. They are now kind of backed into a corner with this latest killing and that worries me with what they might do next as they have no intention of turning things back and losing control of Congress.

 

[drayer54]

I don't think he means they're going around and executing peaceful protesters in large numbers, but they are acting recklessly (btw, many hired as CBP/ICE officers are not trained properly for this role) and without impunity, since Bovine-o has effectively told his teams, you can do anything you want once a peaceful protester is anywhere near your purview. And since Noem, Stephen Miller, and Corey Lewandowski and others have pushed ICE, increasingly led by loyal CBP leaders like Bovine-o, who are more aligned with a go after everyone, brown and illegal, in very public, confrontative ways approach, optics be damned.



These are protestors exercising their 1st amendment rights to protest and be legal observers and they are not interfering with the officers. It's apparent that both Renée Good and Alex Pretti were doing just that when ICE/CBP officers outnumbering them, descended upon them aggressively with the intent to manhandle and arrest them. Neither was looking to interfere with and certainly not kill agents, just record them.

And of course there are laws and immigration enforcement needs to happen, but it's how these officers are going about enforcing the laws, again emboldened by depraved DHS leaders to do it publicly and aggressively, with no concern for due process or legal status. The brutality is the point. They seek confrontation.

Lastly, LE and Federal agents are not quite the accurate terms for these forces since these are officers being hired with minimum background checks and efforts, and many hired from the ranks of white supremacy groups. Hell, with this latest killing, it was hard to tell if the group of officers attacking Pretti were even ICE or CBP officers as other than their masks giving them away, their street attire didn't even reflect them being with ICE/CBP.



There may be some instances of overzealous protestors I'm sure, but most are peacefully protesting and serving as observers, like Good and Pretti were, and are not disobeying any laws or interfering with officers. Officers could have driven and moved around both Good and Pretti and had no need to go after them, but they were champing at the bit to do so. The protestors are not wrong and they're not asking for a bad outcome with their behavior.



Let's hope that fair elections are held/upheld later this year so that those changes will certainly take place. No, their actions are peaceful, 1st-Amendment supported protesting and observing (and 2nd-Amendment supported carrying a concealed weapon) and not unlawful and anarchic; and are not the cause of all the violence and both shootings. The cause of both shootings are an emboldened, untrained, and lawless group of thugs playing ICE/CBP enforcement officers.


Bishop, as I said earlier today, those who still support Trump and these depraved, misguided DHS and WH leaders, have lost their way and their ability to discern between making America great again, and fucking up the hell out of it.

At this point, GOP Senators, Top CEOs, the NRA, and The Wall Street Journal, not exactly liberal bastions, are calling for a serious, objective, and unencumbered investigation into this latest shooting, if not into ICE/CBP operations; and the WSJ is advocating for ICE to just leave Minneapolis.

This is a key juncture for this admin and for our country and democracy because at this point, the government is being run by Trump and a group of depraved WH and DHS leaders who have bullied their way into power and are running the country into the ground. They are now kind of backed into a corner with this latest killing and that worries me with what they might do next as they have no intention of turning things back and losing control of Congress.

For the record- this is way more sensible and agreeable than dumping Kinzinger and fascist stuff.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Goodnight. Praying for eveyone

 

[Bishop2b5]

I thank you for being reasonable and engaging in a discussion without the nonsense from some others. However, I will respectfully disagree with some of what you've said.

I don't think he means they're going around and executing peaceful protesters in large numbers, but they are acting recklessly (btw, many hired as CBP/ICE officers are not trained properly for this role) and without impunity, since Bovine-o has effectively told his teams, you can do anything you want once a peaceful protester is anywhere near your purview. And since Noem, Stephen Miller, and Corey Lewandowski and others have pushed ICE, increasingly led by loyal CBP leaders like Bovine-o, who are more aligned with a go after everyone, brown and illegal, in very public, confrontative ways approach, optics be damned.

I disagree that they're acting recklessly. Given the level of harassment and interference and vitriol being hurled at them, to only have two shootings so far is far from reckless. As for your mention of Bovine-o, I honestly don't know who you're referring to. I gather it's supposed to be some sort of insulting play on the person's actual name, but I find that sort of thing juvenile and unnecessary. Nobody is going after people for being brown. That's a tired and incorrect narrative that gets you immediately labeled a parrot when you use it. It's a lazy argument like overusing Nazi, racist, fascist, and etc. Let's have an adult discussion, please.

These are protestors exercising their 1st amendment rights to protest and be legal observers and they are not interfering with the officers. It's apparent that both Renée Good and Alex Pretti were doing just that when ICE/CBP officers outnumbering them, descended upon them aggressively with the intent to manhandle and arrest them. Neither was looking to interfere with and certainly not kill agents, just record them.

These are NOT just protestors exercising their First Amendment rights. The First Amendment grants citizens the right to PEACEFULLY protest, assemble, express their grievances and ask for redress of them, give speeches, and etc. It absolutely does not give them the right to violence or to interfere with LE or the execution of democratically enacted laws just because they don't agree with them. They most certainly ARE interfering with LE and Federal agents doing their job to enforce the law. They block streets, dox them, assault them, interfere with their ability to access buildings and residences, scuffle with them, and so on. Nobody has a problem with observing and filming as long as it doesn't interfere with them carrying out their duties, but constantly stepping in front of them and sticking a phone in their face, interfering with them arresting people, and harassing them is absolutely illegal and not protected by the First Amendment.

And of course there are laws and immigration enforcement needs to happen, but it's how these officers are going about enforcing the laws, again emboldened by depraved DHS leaders to do it publicly and aggressively, with no concern for due process or legal status. The brutality is the point. They seek confrontation.

They aren't seeking confrontation. This sort of stuff is rarely or never happening in most other places. Why? Because it's only in Minneapolis that you have an organized funded attempt to harass and interfere with them doing their job. The protestors are trying to goad them into confrontations. Did they shoot Good before or after she drove into one of them? Are they seeking peaceful protestors out and attacking them? No. The problems all come about when they're harassed and assaulted and some paid trouble causer finally crosses the line and tries to pull a gun on them or hits them with a car. Dial back the harassment and interference and let them do their job and there will be virtually no brutality or violence or anything else of that nature.

Lastly, LE and Federal agents are not quite the accurate terms for these forces since these are officers being hired with minimum background checks and efforts, and many hired from the ranks of white supremacy groups. Hell, with this latest killing, it was hard to tell if the group of officers attacking Pretti were even ICE or CBP officers as other than their masks giving them away, their street attire didn't even reflect them being with ICE/CBP.

Ask Google or AI if they're law enforcement. They are. Splitting hairs over definitions has nothing to do with the actual issue. They're federal agents with arresting power trying to enforce the laws of our land, which were passed by Congress.

There may be some instances of overzealous protestors I'm sure, but most are peacefully protesting and serving as observers, like Good and Pretti were, and are not disobeying any laws or interfering with officers. Officers could have driven and moved around both Good and Pretti and had no need to go after them, but they were champing at the bit to do so. The protestors are not wrong and they're not asking for a bad outcome with their behavior.

There's no "may be some instances of overzealous protestors." This is an organized, orchestrated, faux outrage, protestors for hire assault on the enforcement of our immigration laws and those whose duty it is to carry them out. And a major reason for it is to oppose anything and everything Trump does. Obama used the same forces and the same laws to deport millions for exactly the same reasons, and none of these people were protesting and calling it fascism or targeting of brown people or anything else like that. This is political theater and an orchestrated assault on the rule of law because of hatred for a politician.

Let's hope that fair elections are held/upheld later this year so that those changes will certainly take place. No, their actions are peaceful, 1st-Amendment supported protesting and observing (and 2nd-Amendment supported carrying a concealed weapon) and not unlawful and anarchic; and are not the cause of all the violence and both shootings. The cause of both shootings are an emboldened, untrained, and lawless group of thugs playing ICE/CBP enforcement officers.

See above. These have not been First Amendment protected peaceful protests. Not even close. This is intentional anarchy and the incitement of violence for political purposes.

Bishop, as I said earlier today, those who still support Trump and these depraved, misguided DHS and WH leaders, have lost their way and their ability to discern between making America great again, and fucking up the hell out of it.

We have not lost our way. You misunderstand why we support what we do. You see a sweet innocent mother brutally murdered in her car because that's the narrative the uber liberal MSM pushes and how they dishonestly frame it. We see a nutjob who lost custody of her kids for letting her lesbian partner burn them with cigarettes (and STAYED WITH HER AFTER IT) who refused to comply with LE and then hit one with her car... and got shot for it. More than that, while you hold people like her up as a hero, we're disgusted by the fact that none of you know the name of hardly any of the hundreds of innocent women raped or murdered by illegal aliens. You don't give a flip about the thousands of kids being brought over illegally for sex trafficking. You don't bother to learn anything about the thousands of helpless women brought over for sex trafficking. You're too focused on one terrible mother who tried to run over an officer and got shot for it. We're not happy about her getting shot, but we don't give AF about her compared to how much we care about the innocent trafficking victims of the open borders and all the innocent victims whose lives were ruined or ended by illegals. So don't give me that depraved, lost your way nonsense. Show some compassion for those thousands of victims and what this whole mess has done and understand why we support ICE removing anyone and everyone who broke our laws and came here illegally.

At this point, GOP Senators, Top CEOs, the NRA, and The Wall Street Journal, not exactly liberal bastions, are calling for a serious, objective, and unencumbered investigation into this latest shooting, if not into ICE/CBP operations; and the WSJ is advocating for ICE to just leave Minneapolis.

I'm all for a thorough, honest investigation. I don't want a cover up and I don't want a witch hunt. I'm ALWAYS for truth and accountability.

This is a key juncture for this admin and for our country and democracy because at this point, the government is being run by Trump and a group of depraved WH and DHS leaders who have bullied their way into power and are running the country into the ground. They are now kind of backed into a corner with this latest killing and that worries me with what they might do next as they have no intention of turning things back and losing control of Congress.

You seem sincere and honest, but you have no real idea why Trump and his admin and their supporters want the border closed and for ICE and other agencies to remove anyone here illegally. See my above point to you about it, please. None of us are heartless, cruel, or don't care. We just care more about our own citizens and the real victims of all this, as in Drayer's pic he posted earlier. Start caring as much about these victims of illegal immigrants as you do the illegal immigrants themselves.

 

[GoIrish41]

Do you genuinely believe LE or ICE are intentionally looking for chances to just kill someone for no good reason? Please tell me you don't actually think that. They don't want to kill anyone. OTOH, if you try to run them over or pull a gun on them, they, like virtually every police force in the world, will shoot to kill in that situation.

And even when folks don’t “pull a gun” or “try to run over them” ICE agents shoots them in the head at close range. What conclusion should I come to? Hell yes! I believe they are looking for an excuse to shoot people. Indeed, it is difficult to understand how you can draw any other conclusion.

 

[IrishinSyria]

the only thing we can say for sure right now is that you would have to be a huge piece of shit to sign up for ICE of CBP right now.

 

[NDWarrior]

I disagree that they're acting recklessly. Given the level of harassment and interference and vitriol being hurled at them, to only have two shootings so far is far from reckless. As for your mention of Bovine-o, I honestly don't know who you're referring to. I gather it's supposed to be some sort of insulting play on the person's actual name, but I find that sort of thing juvenile and unnecessary. Nobody is going after people for being brown. That's a tired and incorrect narrative that gets you immediately labeled a parrot when you use it. It's a lazy argument like overusing Nazi, racist, fascist, and etc. Let's have an adult discussion, please.

And I respectfully disagree with your viewpoint. I do agree that I'm sure there are protesters who are pissed their city is being inundated and they're taking things too far with ICE officers, but they have been empowered to act without impunity by people like Bovino, Miller, and Noem. I'm open to a better term of who ICE is going after, but it's no one other than brown people and it's grab now (and half the time, it's beating the target to a pulp) and sorting out legality later at the station.

These are NOT just protestors exercising their First Amendment rights. The First Amendment grants citizens the right to PEACEFULLY protest, assemble, express their grievances and ask for redress of them, give speeches, and etc. It absolutely does not give them the right to violence or to interfere with LE or the execution of democratically enacted laws just because they don't agree with them. They most certainly ARE interfering with LE and Federal agents doing their job to enforce the law. They block streets, dox them, assault them, interfere with their ability to access buildings and residences, scuffle with them, and so on. Nobody has a problem with observing and filming as long as it doesn't interfere with them carrying out their duties, but constantly stepping in front of them and sticking a phone in their face, interfering with them arresting people, and harassing them is absolutely illegal and not protected by the First Amendment.

I still say most are demonstrating peacefully. Of course they are going to be active in the environs of where ICE is grabbing and dashing with their targets. And they're pissed because they don't see criminals being apprehended; they see assaults on restaurants, schools, hospitals, and courtrooms; and literally going door to door with no target list, fishing for illegals. Remember, being in the U.S. without authorization (undocumented presence) is a civil violation, not a federal crime (specific actions like illegally crossing the border ("improper entry") or re-entering after a prior deportation are federal crimes, leading to potential jail time and deportation; staying past a visa expiration is a civil matter, though it can lead to removal proceedings). We're just not seeing ICE grabbing very man criminals and worst of the worst as DHS leadership touts. And that's always how they defend ICE's brutality. Lastly, only two shootings right now, but I'm concerned that an ICE force emboldened and without impunity will increase their shootings of protestors... We shall see.

They aren't seeking confrontation. This sort of stuff is rarely or never happening in most other places. Why? Because it's only in Minneapolis that you have an organized funded attempt to harass and interfere with them doing their job. The protestors are trying to goad them into confrontations. Did they shoot Good before or after she drove into one of them? Are they seeking peaceful protestors out and attacking them? No. The problems all come about when they're harassed and assaulted and some paid trouble causer finally crosses the line and tries to pull a gun on them or hits them with a car. Dial back the harassment and interference and let them do their job and there will be virtually no brutality or violence or anything else of that nature.

Come on man, Pretti was filming and although he was standing in the street, he was not blocking anyone/anything, and then he was trying to help a woman who was just pushed down by an ICE agent. And Good was not completely blocking traffic and was scared to be grabbed and beaten so was trying to drive away. And in both cases, they could have just subdued the individuals - kept Pretti down and zipped tied him (his eyes were pepper sprayed ffs) and simply shot at Good's SUV's tires. And their verbal comments after each shooting show a depraved indifference to protesters' lives, e.g. f---ing bitch for Good and woo hoo for Pretti. Also, I don't have any supporting proof in re: to Red State cities in highly immigrant Red states such as TX and FL, but for the most part, I don't think they're sending in 1000s of officer to comb through neighborhoods.

Ask Google or AI if they're law enforcement. They are. Splitting hairs over definitions has nothing to do with the actual issue. They're federal agents with arresting power trying to enforce the laws of our land, which were passed by Congress.

Sorry dude, but they way these agents are conducting arrests is pure brutality and not targeted to known of highly-suspected criminal illegals.

See above. These have not been First Amendment protected peaceful protests. Not even close. This is intentional anarchy and the incitement of violence for political purposes.

Come on man, most are peacefully protesting, and they're not inciting violence. Minneapolis pulled off a 50K protester march around the city on Friday w/out any major incidence.

We have not lost our way. You misunderstand why we support what we do. You see a sweet innocent mother brutally murdered in her car because that's the narrative the uber liberal MSM pushes and how they dishonestly frame it. We see a nutjob who lost custody of her kids for letting her lesbian partner burn them with cigarettes (and STAYED WITH HER AFTER IT) who refused to comply with LE and then hit one with her car... and got shot for it. More than that, while you hold people like her up as a hero, we're disgusted by the fact that none of you know the name of hardly any of the hundreds of innocent women raped or murdered by illegal aliens. You don't give a flip about the thousands of kids being brought over illegally for sex trafficking. You don't bother to learn anything about the thousands of helpless women brought over for sex trafficking. You're too focused on one terrible mother who tried to run over an officer and got shot for it. We're not happy about her getting shot, but we don't give AF about her compared to how much we care about the innocent trafficking victims of the open borders and all the innocent victims whose lives were ruined or ended by illegals. So don't give me that depraved, lost your way nonsense. Show some compassion for those thousands of victims and what this whole mess has done and understand why we support ICE removing anyone and everyone who broke our laws and came here illegally.

I understand the abuses of immigrants, but you're correct, they're largely hidden and you know as well as I do, there will always be unspeakable horrors of human crime and abuse, and authorities do their best to stop it. Sure, more resources can be assigned to it and I'm sure is a constant debate, but that doesn't negate ICE officers mostly going after hard-working, tax-paying immigrants who are certainly not raping women and sex trafficking children (btw, it looks like there has been plenty of sexual abuse of women by ICE officers from point of being taken to occurring in the detention centers). And I'm not criticizing your support of immigration enforcement by this administration, but your support of an administration who doesn't care about that and instead is looking to beat down blue cities in the name of immigration and corruption crackdown. Of course we need to get rid of criminals, but I don't see that happening, and I know you've seen the stats were about 70% of illegals detained have no criminal record. And I'm sorry a protestor's background doesn't justify his/her killing; it's not relevant.

You seem sincere and honest, but you have no real idea why Trump and his admin and their supporters want the border closed and for ICE and other agencies to remove anyone here illegally. See my above point to you about it, please. None of us are heartless, cruel, or don't care. We just care more about our own citizens and the real victims of all this.

Bulletin: The border is closed at this point and there should be a process for the removal of illegals for sure, but it should be done the right way and focused on criminals. Again, I don't see that happening right now. I do see twisted WH and DHS leadership who have ulterior motives behind this whole ICE assault thing to subdue and neuter blue cities and ensure that no one other than a MAGA-based GOP party comes out ahead the winner in the mid terms by whatever means possible. And again, those efforts are driving the country into the ground.

 

[Bishop2b5]

And even when folks don’t “pull a gun” or “try to run over them” ICE agents shoots them in the head at close range. What conclusion should I come to? Hell yes! I believe they are looking for an excuse to shoot people. Indeed, it is difficult to understand how you can draw any other conclusion.

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. You've been brainwashed to believe a false narrative and see things through a distorted lens.

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. You've been brainwashed to believe a false narrative and see things through a distorted lens.

We’ve all seen these outrageous crimes on video from multiple angles. You see what we see. If you are no t
appalled to your core when you see government agents holding a gun two feet from the back of of the head of an unarmed subdued person whose offense was trying to help a woman ICE assaulted, then you are either a psychopath, a fascist or just a remarkable asshole.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way. You've been brainwashed to believe a false narrative and see things through a distorted lens.

What if your were the one that may be believing the false narrative?

 

[TracyGraham]

So, I keep asking why was Obama's method of deportation was accepted or largely ignored by protestors while Trump's is protested but I get no answers? Obama deported millions, right? Surely they were not all criminals besides their fact that they were illegal. Is Trump's ICE aggressive as a response to the protesters or were they more aggressive than Obama's ICE to begin with?
I just assume people are protesting Trump's ICE from the get go because the don't like anything Trump does and they are looking for an excuse to have a socialist revolution. This appears to be the MO of professional protestors since the BLM movement which began after Obama.
Can someone who opposes the current ICE iteration please explain why there is vehement opposition now but not during the Obama admin?

 

[Bishop2b5]

What if your were the one that may be believing the false narrative?

Possible, but unlikely. I don't get my interpretation of events from the news, let alone a single highly biased source. I watch, I read, I think for myself and do my best to analyze impartially. I then listen to or read from several sources from both sides to make sure I haven't missed anything. I rarely give much credence to any narrative. I may still be wrong, but it won't ever be because I listened to someone's narrative instead of thinking for myself.

 

[drayer54]

So, I keep asking why was Obama's method of deportation was accepted or largely ignored by protestors while Trump's is protested but I get no answers? Obama deported millions, right? Surely they were not all criminals besides their fact that they were illegal. Is Trump's ICE aggressive as a response to the protesters or were they more aggressive than Obama's ICE to begin with?
I just assume people are protesting Trump's ICE from the get go because the don't like anything Trump does and they are looking for an excuse to have a socialist revolution. This appears to be the MO of professional protestors since the BLM movement which began after Obama.
Can someone who opposes the current ICE iteration please explain why there is vehement opposition now but not during the Obama admin?

It’s an effort to create chaos under Trump. Remember AOC in tears under Trump 45 and then she couldn’t find the border on the map when the scene was 1000x times worse under Biden. I also think it is chaos in the face of obvious fraud and abuse.

If ICE picks up their bag and leaves, this problem does not go away. The level of coordination and funding is a reminder that this is no grass roots protest. It’s a resistance effort.

They didn’t love it under Obama, but he said what democrats used to say- that we have to enforce the law.

 

[TracyGraham]

It’s an effort to create chaos under Trump. Remember AOC in tears under Trump 45 and then she couldn’t find the border on the map when the scene was 1000x times worse under Biden. I also think it is chaos in the face of obvious fraud and abuse.

If ICE picks up their bag and leaves, this problem does not go away. The level of coordination and funding is a reminder that this is no grass roots protest. It’s a resistance effort.

They didn’t love it under Obama, but he said what democrats used to say- that we have to enforce the law.

It sure as shit seems like it. It seems like it has zero to do with the immigrants. But I'm waiting for one of the lefties to explain it. For me it is a crucial piece of info to determine what is really going on and what is right or wrong.
Seems like it is an excuse to oppose anything Trump does(which is kinda the will of his voters)
It also seems like they are antagonizing with the hope ICE will lose their shit, hurt or kill, and gain public support.
These seemingly hardcore leftist professional protesters were screeching, blowing whistles, blocking streets, throwing rocks at authorities well before the Pretti and Nicole Good situations

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Possible, but unlikely. I don't get my interpretation of events from the news, let alone a single highly biased source. I watch, I read, I think for myself and do my best to analyze impartially. I then listen to or read from several sources from both sides to make sure I haven't missed anything. I rarely give much credence to any narrative. I may still be wrong, but it won't ever be because I listened to someone's narrative instead of thinking for myself.

I would recommend instead of turning inwards and relying on yourself (ego) that you also consider submitting your ego to Christ.

A large part of our problem as a society is that we have two sides (or 3 counting centrists) that think they can use logic and reason to "figure this out". Only Christ is in control.

 

[Bantry19]

Not a leftie, but here is an explanation for the blowhards.

Priorities and Targets:
Obama: Implemented specific, narrower enforcement priorities m focusing on threats to public safety and national security. The administration used "prosecutorial discretion" to allow undocumented immigrants without criminal records to remain, especially if they had deep ties to the community.

Trump: Eliminated specific prioritization, making all undocumented immigrants targets for deportation. This shift meant that individuals with no criminal convictions or only minor offenses were increasingly targeted, in contrast to the earlier focus on serious criminals.

Approach to "Dreamers" (DACA):
Obama: Created the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program in 2012, shielding over 700,000 young undocumented immigrants from deportation.

Trump: Attempted to rescind DACA, placing the program in limbo and creating fear of deportation among recipients.

Interior Enforcement vs. Border Returns:
Obama: While total removals were high (over 3 million), many were people apprehended at the border. The administration, particularly in its second term, reduced interior, community-based raids.

Trump: Shifted focus to intensive interior operations, including increased workplace raids, arrests in "sensitive locations" (like schools or courthouses), and the use of the 287(g) program to partner with local law enforcement.

Procedural Approach:
Obama: Relied on formal removal proceedings, allowing more due process.

Trump: Expanded the use of expedited removals, which allow for quick deportation without a court hearing.
Deportation Numbers and Public Perception:
While the Obama administration had higher raw numbers of removals, these included a large share of border returns (people turned away quickly at the border). The Trump administration's approach, though it resulted in fewer total deportations during its first term, was perceived as harsher due to the focus on interior arrests, publicised raids, and the rescinding of protections for non-criminals.
Recent Developments (2025-2026):
The second Trump administration has significantly increased the pace of deportations, using the 1798 Alien Enemies Act to deport individuals without hearings and aiming for a "mass deportation" strategy, with a focus on "worst of the worst" offenders, although data indicates many detained have no criminal records

 

[GoIrish41]

So, I keep asking why was Obama's method of deportation was accepted or largely ignored by protestors while Trump's is protested but I get no answers? Obama deported millions, right? Surely they were not all criminals besides their fact that they were illegal. Is Trump's ICE aggressive as a response to the protesters or were they more aggressive than Obama's ICE to begin with?
I just assume people are protesting Trump's ICE from the get go because the don't like anything Trump does and they are looking for an excuse to have a socialist revolution. This appears to be the MO of professional protestors since the BLM movement which began after Obama.
Can someone who opposes the current ICE iteration please explain why there is vehement opposition now but not during the Obama admin?

To begin with, Obama’s ICE didn’t shoot anyone in the head. They also didn’t rappel from helicopters into a an apartment building in the middle of the night or overwhelm neighborhoods with I’ll-trained troops, some of whom were just months earlier in prison for their role in an insurrection. And then there is always the dehumanizing rhetoric used by Trump and his officials about immigrants and no effort to discern legal from illegal from citizen. And almost from the beginning there was the extra-constitutional shipping of captors without due process to foreign prisons.

 

[Bantry19]

I also don’t recall Obama’s ICE going door to door and sending out memo’s stating they will begin performing warrantless home entries.

But, what do I know. I’m just a Soros funded agitator for the resistance.

 

[drayer54]

I also don’t recall Obama’s ICE going door to door and sending out memo’s stating they will begin performing warrantless home entries.

But, what do I know. I’m just a Soros funded agitator for the resistance.

I also don't recall cities telling Obama they would ignore his federal officers being mobbed by locals, attacked by locals, and that they would release known violent criminals to the streets rather than hand them over to his DHS. I don't recall Obama having to close the floodgates on the border when came in either. FWIW- Obama was a sane president on the border. Most dems were back then, at least first term. The Democrats have moved a mile left since then.

We all tended to agree that letting this person into the country and on welfare on our streets was a bad idea in 2009. In 2026, this is Tim Walz's Anne Frank.

 

[Bantry19]

Or, hear me out, a violent criminal such as this is more likely to evade ICE because ICE is spending time and energy tearing through a neighborhood looking for the immigrant carpenter dropping his kid off at school.

It’s almost like the chaos and heavy handed tactics are by design to distract people from, I don’t know, the Epstein files that Trump’s DOJ is ILLEGALLY withholding.

Maybe, but it could also be to distract from the $1.5 Billion Trump made off the Presidency in one year.

No, that couldn’t be it. It’s those damn lefties.

 

[RDU Irish]

So my Hawkeye niece had a sorority sister killed by an illegal going for a jog in rural Iowa in 2018 before it was cool to be raped and killed by illegal immigrants. The entire population of Poweshiek county Iowa is 18k. My parents live not far from there and today are more concerned about mentally ill dipshits getting killed obstructing law enforcement in Minnesota than the safety of their granddaughters.

Murder of Mollie Tibbetts - Wikipedia

The whole situation is bass ackwards. Get all illegals out, correct birthright citizenship lunacy and massively increase legal immigration and work visa programs.

 

[TracyGraham]

To begin with, Obama’s ICE didn’t shoot anyone in the head. They also didn’t rappel from helicopters into a an apartment building in the middle of the night or overwhelm neighborhoods with I’ll-trained troops, some of whom were just months earlier in prison for their role in an insurrection. And then there is always the dehumanizing rhetoric used by Trump and his officials about immigrants and no effort to discern legal from illegal from citizen. And almost from the beginning there was the extra-constitutional shipping of captors without due process to foreign prisons.

Hold on one second. Are you saying the shooting happened before the throwing of rocks and ice, blocking of cars, screeching of harpies, blaring of horns, blasting of whistles, burning of police cars, etc? Because I am pretty sure people were vehemently opposed to them and set on chaos well before any shooting.
And sure Trump has to work harder and recruit more people because he has to clean up Biden's mess. He is tasked with doing the job of 2 administrations at once. Unfortunately I'm sure it will lead to some people being less qualified. But I really dont know what Obama did and I doubt anyone does because no one seemed to really care at all. Because it was Obama.

 

[TracyGraham]

Or, hear me out, a violent criminal such as this is more likely to evade ICE because ICE is spending time and energy tearing through a neighborhood looking for the immigrant carpenter dropping his kid off at school.

It’s almost like the chaos and heavy handed tactics are by design to distract people from, I don’t know, the Epstein files that Trump’s DOJ is ILLEGALLY withholding.

Maybe, but it could also be to distract from the $1.5 Billion Trump made off the Presidency in one year.

No, that couldn’t be it. It’s those damn lefties.

Are you 100% sure they arent looking for criminals? I'm not. How can you make that claim without being in an ICE meeting room?

 

[TracyGraham]

Not a leftie, but here is an explanation for the blowhards.

Priorities and Targets:
Obama: Implemented specific, narrower enforcement priorities m focusing on threats to public safety and national security. The administration used "prosecutorial discretion" to allow undocumented immigrants without criminal records to remain, especially if they had deep ties to the community.

Trump: Eliminated specific prioritization, making all undocumented immigrants targets for deportation. This shift meant that individuals with no criminal convictions or only minor offenses were increasingly targeted, in contrast to the earlier focus on serious criminals.

Approach to "Dreamers" (DACA):
Obama: Created the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program in 2012, shielding over 700,000 young undocumented immigrants from deportation.

Trump: Attempted to rescind DACA, placing the program in limbo and creating fear of deportation among recipients.

Interior Enforcement vs. Border Returns:
Obama: While total removals were high (over 3 million), many were people apprehended at the border. The administration, particularly in its second term, reduced interior, community-based raids.

Trump: Shifted focus to intensive interior operations, including increased workplace raids, arrests in "sensitive locations" (like schools or courthouses), and the use of the 287(g) program to partner with local law enforcement.

Procedural Approach:
Obama: Relied on formal removal proceedings, allowing more due process.

Trump: Expanded the use of expedited removals, which allow for quick deportation without a court hearing.
Deportation Numbers and Public Perception:
While the Obama administration had higher raw numbers of removals, these included a large share of border returns (people turned away quickly at the border). The Trump administration's approach, though it resulted in fewer total deportations during its first term, was perceived as harsher due to the focus on interior arrests, publicised raids, and the rescinding of protections for non-criminals.
Recent Developments (2025-2026):
The second Trump administration has significantly increased the pace of deportations, using the 1798 Alien Enemies Act to deport individuals without hearings and aiming for a "mass deportation" strategy, with a focus on "worst of the worst" offenders, although data indicates many detained have no criminal records

He doesnt have the luxury of stopping people at the gate(if that is really all Obama did). He has to reverse what Biden let in.

 

[IrishinSyria]

So, I keep asking why was Obama's method of deportation was accepted or largely ignored by protestors while Trump's is protested but I get no answers? Obama deported millions, right? Surely they were not all criminals besides their fact that they were illegal. Is Trump's ICE aggressive as a response to the protesters or were they more aggressive than Obama's ICE to begin with?
I just assume people are protesting Trump's ICE from the get go because the don't like anything Trump does and they are looking for an excuse to have a socialist revolution. This appears to be the MO of professional protestors since the BLM movement which began after Obama.
Can someone who opposes the current ICE iteration please explain why there is vehement opposition now but not during the Obama admin?

I think this cuts entirely the other way.

First of all, Obama was criticized for his deportations. The term "deporter in chief" wasn't coined by the left as a term of endearment.

But, as you point out, he wasn't met by huge protests, and that's because the way his administration went about it was almost diametrically opposed to the way the Trump administration went about it.

Under Obama, you didn't have an "unprecedented" surge in ICE recruitment, resulting in more than 12,000 new ICE agents -- many of whom have been sent into the field with inadequate training.

Under Obama, Immigration enforcement efforts were carefully targeted at two categories of immigrants: those who had recently crossed the border unlawfully, who were overwhelmingly detained at the border, and those with serious criminal records.

The most recent enforcement figures released by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) on December 30 offer the latest evidence of these trends. Eighty-five percent of all removals and returns during fiscal year (FY) 2016 were of noncitizens who had recently crossed the U.S. border unlawfully. Of the remainder, who were removed from the U.S. interior, more than 90 percent had been convicted of what DHS defines as serious crimes.

What you didn't see was squads of masked overweight goons deploying to cities kitted out in full tacticool gear rolling up on anyone who they thought sounded like an immigrant. You didn't have immigrants who were in the middle of naturalization proceedings being kidnapped in federal court after their hearings where things purportedly went well for them. Obama (and Biden) directed ICE to prioritize violent criminals. Trump issued an EO specifically repealing that guidance.

I could go on, but I think the point is clear: it is simply and categorically untrue that Trump and Obama have used ICE in the same way. What people are responding to is not a general dislike of Trump, but a specific dislike--rooted in basic principles of liberty, dignity, and due process--of the way Trump, Stephen Miller, and co have chosen to selectively enforce our immigration laws.

But I think the Obama example is important, because it highlights that liberals are not categorically opposed to enforcement of those laws. There is overwhelming support for border security. There is overwhelming support for deporting dangerous criminals. That's what Trump promised in his campaign, but it's absolutely not what he has delivered.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Are you 100% sure they arent looking for criminals? I'm not. How can you make that claim without being in an ICE meeting room?

If only there was some sort of way of knowing what orders the executive has given to department heads that could shed light on this question.