Has our team quit?

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
I know this was already linked in another thread, but it's worth starting its own thread for it and quoting the piece at some length. I really hope these rumors aren't true, but I can't say I'm 100% confident in that. The people who run this blog are obviously Weis-haters, but that doesn't mean they should be completely disregarded, especially given where their info is apparently coming from.

With that half-assed disclaimer, then, here goes:

Have The Irish Quit On Weis?

Since I spend about 90 percent of my waking hours watching HBO On Demand or cruising recruiting Web sites, it was only a matter of time before this story found its way into my inbox. According to several writers on Notre Dame's College Football: Rivals.com - College Football site, Irish Illustrated, the team has completely quit on head coach Charlie Weis. I don't believe you can access the articles unless you are a member, but let me sum up for you what staff writers Tim Prister and Pete Sampson had to say.

Prister claims that Weis lambasted the players for about a half an hour in the visiting locker room after the Michigan game. He told the team that Sunday would not be the typical film review day and instead would be Weis' version of boot camp. He added that it was a forgone conclusion that he had completely lost this year's team. Prister and Sampson both also discussed the transfer of opening game starting quarterback Demetrius Jones, saying that he, in fact, had to be enrolled at Northern Illinois by September 12, but continued to practice and stay at Notre Dame until he didn't show up for the bus to the Michigan game. He didn't even tell Weis, no one did, despite the fact that several players were aware of the situation. The Jones transfer has far more wide reaching concerns than the departure of a backup quarterback. Sampson claims that Jones was one of the most popular players in the locker room and none of his former teammates were angry about his transfer, most supported him or understood.

Prister goes on to say that Jones didn't transfer from Notre Dame, he abandoned a sinking ship. Keep in mind, this is a pro-Irish Web site. He also says that when he bumped in to Jones last Wednesday and asked him if he was ready for the Michigan game, Jones responded by saying, "If you thought there was drama before, there's some drama coming up." That obviously shows that Jones knew ahead of time he was moving on.

Prister then unloaded this gem, "Sure everyone knew the '07 season would be a titanic struggle. What no one knew is that it would develop into a Titanic-like struggle. Weis has lost his football team, and beating the crap out of them on the practice field offers no guarantees and runs the risk of losing them permanently." Well said.

Sampson is perhaps even more harsh. He refers to Weis has "Hurricane Hubris." He slams him for failing to read his team and their mood all the way back to spring practice, for the erosion of simple techniques and fundamentals he credits to Weis' arrogance. And he rips him for installing two offenses for two quarterback (one for Jimmy Clausen and one for Jones) rather than perfecting a basic off-tackle play.

Let's all remember that while everyone was lauding Weis' "transformation" of the program over the last two years, he was playing with upperclassmen who weren't even brought in by him. While he's done well in getting players (back to back No. 8 recruiting classes according to rivals) he has never shown that he can develop them. He's never shown that he can read a team's psyche, connect with them, pick them up when they're down and keep them focused and prepared when they're too cocky. That is the essential difference between college and the pros and it's why guys like Pete Carroll and Mack Brown have been successful. I'm not saying Weis can't do it, he just hasn't shown he can so far.

Through some enterprising research, I also discovered that at a tailgate last season, the members of Notre Dame's 1966 team were telling anyone who would listen about the complete lack of respect they had for Weis and they way he had treated former players. This week players from the 1973 National Championship team said the same thing. As former players are not allowed to attend practices or even meet the players. And most of the "insiders" close to the program feel Weis has thrown his players under the bus, despite the fact that they obviously haven't been anywhere close to prepared for their first three games.

Yikes. Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

Junkhead

Community Mod
Messages
7,595
Reaction score
1,354
Ouch. You can say he has shouldered the blame. That is not a good article though!
 

wallym

Active member
Messages
303
Reaction score
48
Wow. Shocking article, but not surprising coming from Prister. I subscribed to Blue & Gold for a while, and couldn't stand Prister so I don't get the paper any longer.

I do have to agree that Weis takes an NFL mentality with his team, which is a mistake. NFL players do this for a living (ie "make money playing football") and have a different psyche. NFL players are generally more mature, have less distractions, practice and think football all day, etc, etc. College football players have classes to go to, parties to attend, girls to swoop, finances to worry about, parents coming to watch them, etc, etc. It's a completely different psyche, and I'm so tired of Wies talking about their psyche during pressers. I totally agree that he has never shown that he can develop players he recruited. He's never shown that he can read a team's psyche, connect with them, pick them up when they're down and keep them focused and prepared when they're too cocky
 

NDFan4Life

Forum Regular
Messages
1,967
Reaction score
254
Considering the source of the article (along with their obvious hatred of Weis and more than likely UND), I'd take their observations with a grain of salt.
 

MeanGreen

New member
Messages
178
Reaction score
34
Other sites are claiming the practices have been half-speed and therefore the appearance of preparation for the game is lacking. If we are not practicing at game speed, we are not prepared for the game. Game speed is different than practice speed, especially if practice is taken down a level. I am sure some of the guys that are still around from Ty's last classes might resent CW, especially if they are second string or only playing because there is no better option and have been basically told so. As far as treating the past classes, I thought CW embraced the past much better than Davie or Ty. I can not remember seeing as many ex-players at pep rallies or on campus during their years as I have CW's. Like the old saying goes you can not please everybody and I am sure CW has pissed of more than his share of players, writers, alumni, and even recruits. I do think CW needs to lose some of the pro mentality he has. College football plays with a little more emotion than pro football and I think that might be a spot we are lacking.
 

jonesman

Tommy Rees is my man
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
182
This is really scary!!! I believe this Saturday will show the validity of what is going on with the team. If the team does not show passion at a winnable home game then you truelly can say that CW has lost the team. If this is the case, ND will have to do something so drastic I do not want to imagine. That drastic move is to ask CW to resign. There is NOTHING worse in the college game than a coach than does not have the heart of his players. I pray this is not the case, but some cracks in the armor are showing.
 

wallym

Active member
Messages
303
Reaction score
48
jonesman - do you honestly think this is a "winable home game"? You have to be crazy to even think this after the 1st two. I watched Dantonio at UC very closely, and he is intense and so are his players. The team takes on the coaches mentality, and that's something that we are doing as well (and not a good thing).

I was at the MU game, and Weis is not involved in any conversations with any units other than the "O". He never talked to the D, never said anything to the special teams, and barely moved. He has no emotion, and is taking this as the NFL...that needs to change immediately. We don't play 16 games and can afford to lose this badly...
 

goldandblue

Well-known member
Messages
3,721
Reaction score
419
Damnit! just when I'm starting to feel a little better about everything, I read this!
 

jonesman

Tommy Rees is my man
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
182
If you look at MSU, their talent is not superior to ours. As for Dantonio, I believe he is a good coach, but if we play to our talent level we should be very competitive. MSU is NOT a team which should blow ND off the field. If we lose a close one, this will show improvement. If this ends up another 30-3 thrashing, we will know for sure that CW has lost the troops. If this is the case, it is not a recoverable situation. I pray we do not see that result.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
I agree that the article is definitely frightening, terrifying, etc. Hearing people say that Prister has often had an axe to grind (and is the same true of Sampson?) definitely helps, though. Plus they obviously have an incentive to write exciting things so they can sell subscriptions.

I plan to write a much longer post on this later tonight or tomorrow morning ... in the meantime, let's all try not to jump off a cliff, okay?
 
Messages
11,214
Reaction score
377
I agree that the article is definitely frightening, terrifying, etc. Hearing people say that Prister has often had an axe to grind (and is the same true of Sampson?) definitely helps, though. Plus they obviously have an incentive to write exciting things so they can sell subscriptions.QUOTE]

What ND fan would want to buy a subscription to a paper that consistently just bashes our team?
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
What ND fan would want to buy a subscription to a paper that consistently just bashes our team?

True. But it's not as if they ONLY bash the team. What I had in mind is the whole "Look at me, I'm an insider, I have the real scoop on what's happening" deal. Plus from what I understand, the II board, at least, consists largely of haters and nancies.
 
G

goldenlid

Guest
When did they quit was it sometime while ND was playing in BCS games or is it within the last week or so.
 
Messages
11,214
Reaction score
377
I guess we'll see what they give us on Saturday. I really don't like to think that our team "quit" Lets just wait and see what happens. Go Irish!
 
G

GREENJERSEYS'07

Guest
everything about the weis era will come out in 2008,until then...


I still wear my notre dame clothing in pride, hope for the best this year with improvements and everyone stays healthy.
 

NDOM

Banned
Messages
5,970
Reaction score
479
This is really scary!!! I believe this Saturday will show the validity of what is going on with the team. If the team does not show passion at a winnable home game then you truelly can say that CW has lost the team. If this is the case, ND will have to do something so drastic I do not want to imagine. That drastic move is to ask CW to resign. There is NOTHING worse in the college game than a coach than does not have the heart of his players. I pray this is not the case, but some cracks in the armor are showing.

I have to agree with this post.
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
Have they quit? Well so far only one has quit and to me the whole Jones thing seems more in-line with seeing the writing on the wall like Zach did. No QB who is anything other than an idiot goes to Northern Illinois because he thinks they will be more successful than Notre Dame.

As for the rest of the team.... What I think this entire thing boils down to is fear. Perhaps in the first game they came out cocky and thinking they would set the world on fire like they did in high school (unfortunately very few of the players are that far removed from HS ball). When things collapsed in a hurry in the first game and Weis took the drastic step of shuffling the quarterbacks, I think it put some fear in this team. Why do lineman whiff on blocks that are supposed to be routine? Why does Jimmy hold on to the ball too long? To me a lot of the mistakes are being made because the players don't believe in one another. Part of that team mentality comes from working together over time (something we don't have). Part of it comes from the head coach (something people say we don't have). Some of it comes from what is inside of you (something I believe these young men have).

I think perhaps there is a shade of truth in the article. Right now these players don't think we can win. Apparently there are a lot of fair-weather fans that are willing to bash them for getting beaten down (I'm going to stop reading the BGS comments, since there are some pathetic lowlifes crawling out of the woodwork to comment there). So has Charlie lost the team? I'd say a little. They are still willing to play for him and go out there even if it means they are going to be embarrassed. But he (and we, as much as possible) have to get them believing they can win. Even cynics know that confidence and belief are crucial to winning in sports as well as a lot of other things.

Diagnosis: Deep psyche-bruise.

Recommended Treatment: Anger.

At some point getting embarrassed just pisses you off. Its why I beat up the class bullies when I was a kid. Right now we need to hit someone in the mouth and get a taste for blood. If a week of what-doesn't-kill-you-makes-you-stronger paractices. And boy I think that's coming. If the boys need to hate Weis to get going, so be it.

Think we are going to beat MSU? I don't but I think it won't be because of talent. I think those that can go out there and actually play for the full 4 quarters are going to be exhausted. Coach Weis knows what he is doing. Just because some "fans" and some malcontent sportswriters give up after 3 games doesn't mean someone who has trained their whole life for this will.

TIME TO FIGHT.
WE NEED MEN NOT BOYS.




and I'm spent

LETS GO IRISH
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
BRILLIANT post, piyachi. I'm going to hold off judgment on the "quitting" issue until I see how our boys come out on Saturday against the Fartin's.
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
I was in a bar, coated in Blue and Green and one UM fan who looked scared to death that his team was winning like that. So no Bastogne, but there was a lot of anger and sadness all across the country.

Sidenote, not to thread-jack - Anyone else in DC that goes to McFaddens for the games?
 

connor_in

Oh Yeeaah!!!
Messages
11,433
Reaction score
1,006
I am sure a number of the players are down and depressed...heck, were sitting here at our keyboards and were ticked off or scared or depressed and we aren't the ones on the field!!

I don't know if the kids have "quit" for the season or just quit for the UM game.

I wouldn't be surprised if we do lose 8 games or so this year...but things will improve. Not because Weis is a genius, but because the kids learn and improve.

I will be a fan of ND until I take my last breath, but if we do lose to MSU, the will be no bridge jumping from me or registering fireweis.com. Its gonna be painful for a while, but we will be back...sooner or later.

Good luck boys...sorry you gotta trudge thru the sh*tstorm, but you'll be better men on the other side of it if you stay together and believe in the team
 

PADOMERNUT

New member
Messages
1,752
Reaction score
77
I think everyone needs to calm down. prister has been writing shitty articles about nd for years. we all know weis is not the most media friendly guy in the world, so that explains members of the press not liking him. I cant believe some of you people. Weis needs to resign? are you kidding me? Talk about hitting the panic button way too quickly. IMO Jones resented the fact that Clausen is better than he is, thats why he quit. MSU is a winnable game. Let's all wait and see what happens
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
Thanks PADomer. I was just passing along what I'd heard; I'm glad to hear so many people say it's just a typical media overreaction.
 

PADOMERNUT

New member
Messages
1,752
Reaction score
77
It was an interesting article, im just not buying into it. And again i think asking weis to resign is absurd
 
T

Tennesseeirish

Guest
I am sure a number of the players are down and depressed...heck, were sitting here at our keyboards and were ticked off or scared or depressed and we aren't the ones on the field!!

I don't know if the kids have "quit" for the season or just quit for the UM game.

I wouldn't be surprised if we do lose 8 games or so this year...but things will improve. Not because Weis is a genius, but because the kids learn and improve.

I will be a fan of ND until I take my last breath, but if we do lose to MSU, the will be no bridge jumping from me or registering fireweis.com. Its gonna be painful for a while, but we will be back...sooner or later.

Good luck boys...sorry you gotta trudge thru the sh*tstorm, but you'll be better men on the other side of it if you stay together and believe in the team

Great Post
 

OCIrish

Fukk Michigan
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
218
Yeah, Prister is not one of my favorite ND writers. He is no longer at BGI, therefore, I bought a subsciption to the paper version. I haven't heard the sky is falling rumors over there. I don't put much stock into what Prister or Sampson have to say. While some of it may be true, there haven't been this many alumni at games and what not, since Holtz was coaching.
 
Top