George Zimmerman Trial

[Domina Nostra]

Exactly.

We're trying to paint GZ guilty with bullshit like "Well his wounds weren't THAT bad" ....Doesn't matter. If YOU feel YOUR life is in danger, then you must defend yourself and that's all.

One person may not have felt TM on top of them was a threat to their life....but that doesn't matter if you ask the next guy. How do we know that TM wouldn't have killed him had GZ not had a gun!?!?!

This is why I'm with you....no way they get murder 2...could they squeak out manslaughter? Sure, if the jury buys the emotional card.

I don't know Florida law, but generally the common law in most places is that self-defense is justified by threat of death or fear of serious bodily injury. You aren't required to make the distinction between the two in the heat of the moment. You can't shoot someone in a bar room punching match, but if 4 guys drag you outside into the alley and start stomping you, the line gets blurry fast. You are not required that they intended to kill you or were liekly to actually kill you.

It also doesn't matter ultimately who "started it." While the guy who started it definitly has an uphill battle as far as proof goes, a situation can change mid fight if the other guy responds with deadly force. The easiest example is if you start pushing someone in a bar and trying to provoke a fist fight, and the guy pulls out a kinfe and starts lunging at your chest with it, you are allowed to defend yourself. You don't lose that privilege because you started it.

So it is not as easy as saying, "getting your head beat in is not lifethreatening" or "GZ had no right to approach a stranger in his neighborhood." That is just not enough info.

Also, people need to stop saying that the police told him not to go. It's a criminal trial. You are supposed to weigh the evidence for the defendant. You could interpret what the dispatcher said that way if you want, but that is not what she actually said--which is what is important. Even so, I am not sure how much it proves. I am not sure that it is criminally wreckless for a grown man to confront a stranger in his own neighborhood.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...No one is taking account that under Florida law if GZ is warned to not follow someone, he loses his self defense argument...

As someone who's passed the Florida Bar, let me say that this could not be more wrong.

 

[irishpat183]

I feel bad for the prosecution attorney. I mean you have this big case where all these people want this guy guilty, and you have nothing to go on as far as evidence.

I bet he's wondering what the hell happened for him to get put in a position like this.

And that is the problem. The media and court of public opinon have already made their minds up due to overreaction because of the race implications.


Now we have riots in the streets if he's let go. Which is a shame.

 

[irishpat183]

I don't know Florida law, but generally the common law in most places is that self-defense is justified by threat of death or fear of serious bodily injury. You aren't required to make the distinction between the two in the heat of the moment. You can't shoot someone in a bar room punching match, but if 4 guys drag you outside into the alley and start stomping you, the line gets blurry fast. You are not required that they intended to kill you or were liekly to actually kill you.

It also doesn't matter ultimately who "started it." While the guy who started it definitly has an uphill battle as far as proof goes, a situation can change mid fight if the other guy responds with deadly force. The easiest example is if you start pushing someone in a bar and trying to provoke a fist fight, and the guy pulls out a kinfe and starts lunging at your chest with it, you are allowed to defend yourself. You don't lose that privilege because you started it.

So it is not as easy as saying, "getting your head beat in is not lifethreatening" or "GZ had no right to approach a stranger in his neighborhood." That is just not enough info.

Also, people need to stop saying that the police told him not to go. It's a criminal trial. You are supposed to weigh the evidence for the defendant. You could interpret what the dispatcher said that way if you want, but that is not what she actually said--which is what is important. Even so, I am not sure how much it proves. I am not sure that it is criminally wreckless for a grown man to confront a stranger in his own neighborhood.

Great post.

The entire case against GZ is smoke and mirrors and simply no evidence. Let's see how loud we can say things, maybe they'll become true or we'll get enough angry mob to support us.

 

[connor_in]

If they would have charged him with manslaughter I think they get a guilty verdict. Murder 2 I'm not so sure about.

^ This

By the way, in some of the stuff I have been seeing lately (I know, I know, beware the filter of the media...) they discuss the guy who tried to fake out GZ saying that someone had video of the whole incident and instead of GZ being concerned, he came across as relieved saying he had hoped someone would have it on camera. Do you think he either believes his own story (for whatever reason...ranging from truth to delusional) or do you think he is a full on sociopath?

 

[irishpat183]

As someone who's passed the Florida Bar, let me say that this could not be more wrong.

I'd like to see where that "law" Bogs is talking about, is?

I've yet to hear a case in which someone is arrested for checking out a suspicious person in their neighborhood.

 

[FLDomer]

I'd like to see where that "law" Bogs is talking about, is?

I've yet to hear a case in which someone is arrested for checking out a suspicious person in their neighborhood.

I requested that but it was brushed pass, I mean I live here, I want to be aware of this law.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I'd like to see where that "law" Bogs is talking about, is?

I've yet to hear a case in which someone is arrested for checking out a suspicious person in their neighborhood.

I've heard of it, if by "checking out" you mean "peering through a window", and by "suspicious person" you mean "a hot chick changing her shirt". Wasn't me of course...was a friend of mine...

 

[jmurphy75]

I requested that but it was brushed pass, I mean I live here, I want to be aware of this law.

That's because Bogs was mistaken, no such law exist.

 

[FLDomer]

That's because Bogs was mistaken, no such law exist.

OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH

 

[Irish Houstonian]

That's because Bogs was mistaken, no such law exist.

There goes the streak.

 

[irishpat183]

I requested that but it was brushed pass, I mean I live here, I want to be aware of this law.

That's because Bogs was mistaken, no such law exist.

SO YOU MEAN THIS ENTIRE CAMPAIGN TO FRY ZIMMERMAN BECAUSE OF "FOLLOWING" SOMEONE...IS A LIE?!?!?!?!

Well that's just tomfoolery! A travshammockery!

 

[irishpat183]

I've heard of it, if by "checking out" you mean "peering through a window", and by "suspicious person" you mean "a hot chick changing her shirt". Wasn't me of course...was a friend of mine...

That's called being awesome. It may be illegal...but it's a victory in man court

 

[jmurphy75]

The whole thing is about to get worse Florida State Attorney Angela Corey is being indicted for falsifying the arrest warrant.
OCALA, Fla., July 2, 2013 -- /PRNewswire/ -- Florida State's Attorney Angela Corey has been indicted by a citizens' grand jury, convening in Ocala, Florida, over the alleged falsification of the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to George Zimmerman being charged with the second degree murder of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida.

 

[FLDomer]

The whole thing is about to get worse Florida State Attorney Angela Corey is being indicted for falsifying the arrest warrant.
OCALA, Fla., July 2, 2013 -- /PRNewswire/ -- Florida State's Attorney Angela Corey has been indicted by a citizens' grand jury, convening in Ocala, Florida, over the alleged falsification of the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to George Zimmerman being charged with the second degree murder of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida.

Oh boy! Trying to secure a reelection...

Be safe JMurphy when **** hits the fan over there in Sanford/Orlando.

 

[FLDomer]

Under cross-examination, the Carter admitted class discussions did not specifically focus on Florida law.

And Carter explained that he taught Zimmerman self-defense is justified even when a person is not severely hurt.

"You don’t have to wait until you are almost dead until you can defend yourself?" asked defense attorney Don West.

"No. I advise you don’t do that," Carter said.



Read more: Firearms expert: 'Contact shot' killed Trayvon Martin | George Zimmerman Murder Trial - WESH Home

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I do not disagree with what you noted, I read it too. I was replying to the definitive statements earlier posted about TM not having damage to his knuckles from blows. The defense is cross examining and seems to be able to being able to place "doubt" and to convict it is supposed to be beyond a reasonable doubt. Who knows the mind of GZ and what fears he had running through his head or for that matter what was going through TMs head. I just see it being hard to convict beyond a reasonable doubt of murder in the 2nd degree. Also from the link you see the lead detective that GZ did nothing illegal about getting out of his car and looking for TM...another statement you presented to be fact was that he was breaking FL law.

See here is where communication goes wrong. From the beginning in my posts I acknowledged that TM had an abrasion on one finger, which turns out to be the case. But every statement I made or quoted, added, "not consistent with the kind of damage required for a life-threatening attack." Or something to that effect. Minor damage; minor attack.

Saying GZ broke no law in getting out of his car is a lot different that saying GZ ultimately surrenders his self defense argument if the 9-1-1 operator tells him not to follow. Big difference. Huge difference. First saying he did nothing wrong getting out of his car would be used by defense to "muddy the waters" or cast doubt. The second comes in a the (during deliberations at the) findings and sentencing stages of the trial.

 

[gkIrish]

The whole thing is about to get worse Florida State Attorney Angela Corey is being indicted for falsifying the arrest warrant.
OCALA, Fla., July 2, 2013 -- /PRNewswire/ -- Florida State's Attorney Angela Corey has been indicted by a citizens' grand jury, convening in Ocala, Florida, over the alleged falsification of the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to George Zimmerman being charged with the second degree murder of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida.

Wow!!

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Supposedly Zimmerman's Criminal Investigations professor was on the stand today via Skype(?), and his number was shown on TV, resulting in a million prank Skype calls interrupting his testimony.

 

[ACamp1900]

LOL... this freakin country man... and some say we don't deserve our politicans...

 

[FLDomer]

See here is where communication goes wrong. From the beginning in my posts I acknowledged that TM had an abrasion on one finger, which turns out to be the case. But every statement I made or quoted, added, "not consistent with the kind of damage required for a life-threatening attack." Or something to that effect. Minor damage; minor attack.

Saying GZ broke no law in getting out of his car is a lot different that saying GZ ultimately surrenders his self defense argument if the 9-1-1 operator tells him not to follow. Big difference. Huge difference. First saying he did nothing wrong getting out of his car would be used by defense to "muddy the waters" or cast doubt. The second comes in a the (during deliberations at the) findings and sentencing stages of the trial.

My above post with the link to today's update on the testimony of the professor answers the life threatening part of your comment.

As stated before, the 911 Operator did not tell him not to follow, but that he did not have to. For liability purposes the 911 Operator can not tell him to do or not to do anything but can only suggest.

 

[irishpat183]

The whole thing is about to get worse Florida State Attorney Angela Corey is being indicted for falsifying the arrest warrant.
OCALA, Fla., July 2, 2013 -- /PRNewswire/ -- Florida State's Attorney Angela Corey has been indicted by a citizens' grand jury, convening in Ocala, Florida, over the alleged falsification of the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to George Zimmerman being charged with the second degree murder of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida.

WOW! Wait till this gets thrown out.....


Hope you have your riot gear ready, bro. Stay safe

 

[Bogtrotter07]

The whole thing is about to get worse Florida State Attorney Angela Corey is being indicted for falsifying the arrest warrant.
OCALA, Fla., July 2, 2013 -- /PRNewswire/ -- Florida State's Attorney Angela Corey has been indicted by a citizens' grand jury, convening in Ocala, Florida, over the alleged falsification of the arrest warrant and complaint that lead to George Zimmerman being charged with the second degree murder of African-American teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida.

Do you mean one of those reactionary groups fantasy things? The same group of Ocala 'oughts,' that indicted Obama and Holder and etc., and etc.? I am laughing in a way that "LOL" does not express! Good luck with that, and have fun.

This is exactly the kind of fantasy misinformation that has taken over this page.

 

[irishpat183]

Do you mean one of those reactionary groups fantasy things? The same group of Ocala 'oughts,' that indicted Obama and Holder and etc., and etc.? I am laughing in a way that "LOL" does not express! Good luck with that, and have fun.

This is exactly the kind of fantasy misinformation that has taken over this page.

like the "it's against the law to follow someone" or 911 operators have authority misinformation?

 

[FLDomer]

like the "it's against the law to follow someone" or 911 operators have authority misinformation?

why the italics?

 

[irishpat183]

why the italics?

Good point.

 

[SaltyND24]

My above post with the link to today's update on the testimony of the professor answers the life threatening part of your comment.

As stated before, the 911 Operator did not tell him not to follow, but that he did not have to. For liability purposes the 911 Operator can not tell him to do or not to do anything but can only suggest.

I'm just being petty...but I believe it was "we don't need you to do that"...carry on gentlemen

 

[Bogtrotter07]

My above post with the link to today's update on the testimony of the professor answers the life threatening part of your comment.

As stated before, the 911 Operator did not tell him not to follow, but that he did not have to. For liability purposes the 911 Operator can not tell him to do or not to do anything but can only suggest.

We are so to the point that we cannot even converse on this. In Florida and in Ohio, hell in any state but confusion, you cannot put yourself into a position where you are in harm, when advised not to, and claim self defense.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/08Rf4G0JOOk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


And this testimony by the classes taken by Zimmerman is just what the Prosecution wants. If he was afraid for his life, what was he doing running blindly into a dark alley after a "suspect." Maybe not to you, but to a jury of well adjusted citizens, this looks amazingly nefarious. More to come.

 

[FLDomer]

I'm just being petty...but I believe it was "we don't need you to do that"...carry on gentlemen

I believe you are right, and its not a direct order, especially in the context of the conversation.

 

[SaltyND24]

I believe you are right, and its not a direct order, especially in the context of the conversation.

Oh I know...thus why I said I was being petty in even correcting you...lol