Game of Thrones

[Ironman8]

I don't know if I buy into it, but pretty interesting theory:

https://www.yahoo.com/style/bran-may-game-thrones-apos-230503466.html

 

[woolybug25]

I just think it would have added an interesting element to the "arrival" montage if they showed some poor people, who were squatting in Dragonstone for shelter, looking to Dany like every poor person has looked to her thus far. Wasn't trying to poo-poo on that tidbit.

I mentioned that it wouldn't be *realistic* (LOL) for any of the current power players to hold Dragonstone, as they either don't have the manpower, or else can't expend what they do have. Cersei and her crew wouldn't hold it, because they were too concerned with chaos at King's Landing, and it seems like the Lannisters are stretched pretty thin abroad. They won't muster a true force until it's time to get wiped out by the Dothraki on the battlefield. Tyrell's wouldn't hold it, because they need to tighten things up and go into a shell game at home. Olenna needs to figure out who goes forward for her house, since Loras and Margery are burnt toast on the wind. The North wouldn't hold it, because the king there is kind of busy with some other stuff.

I've made this point before too. I find it funny that poo'poo'ers (not you) always talk about whether stuff is "realistic". There are fuqing dragons and zombies. Think we hit that point already. haha.

It stands to reason that some squatters, left behind after Stannis went to war, would have seen fit to take advantage of the nice, big safe place. It would have been neat to see Dany pick up more followers. They could've literally fallen in line behind her, looking to her for guidance. The first example in Westeros of what she did across the sea.

Is Dragonstone a "safe place" though? It sits entirely on rock with no ability to farm, travel easily or support itself. As I mentioned earlier, it would take someone with boats, availability of food, workers, etc to even make much of a go there. It's been years since the Targaryans were there. So there no food, etc. Seems like a pretty poor choice for squatting considering its a rock island nowhere near any of the other cities.

But I understand why the scene was about her, and only her, since it was a HUGE moment for her character, and represented the culmination of 6 seasons of "I just want to go home."

That's how I felt about it. It was supposed to be a "Welp, I suppose she's a real, bonified Queen now" type moment. Not a battle scene for the sakes of keeping Wiz's attention.

It's just a shame that "Shall we begin?" is probably going to be followed by two or three scenes of deliberation, rather than straight Fire and Blood lol.

We'll see on this. There aren't a ton of episodes for them to fill with fluff. They are kinda getting their hands forced to get busy.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't know if I buy into it, but pretty interesting theory:

https://www.yahoo.com/style/bran-may-game-thrones-apos-230503466.html

Interesting, but if the show went that way, then it would be hard to explain how Bran was a red headed guy standing on his own, no?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Man some of you guys are harsh. I love this show. Probably steering clear of this thread for awhile.

 

[woolybug25]

Man some of you guys are harsh. I love this show. Probably steering clear of this thread for awhile.

Don't let them take your enjoyment away. Just because this hipster bar isn't "authentic" enough for them, doesn't mean that we can't enjoy our gosh damned avocado toast. Grab a beer and a seat. If they don't like the bar, they can go find a different one.

 

[woolybug25]

Just an example for those asking about squatters in Dragonstone. Here is a map with Dragonstone on it. Not exactly a place where traveling squatters stumble onto.

From the sea.

 

[dublinirish]

Giant tapestry depicting entire Game of Thrones series unveiled in Northern Ireland - Independent.ie

 

[greyhammer90]

Its freaking tv, man.

I've made this point before too. I find it funny that poo'poo'ers (not you) always talk about whether stuff is "realistic". There are fuqing dragons and zombies. Think we hit that point already. haha.

You're right we're just expecting too much. After all this is television. There's a limit to how good TV can be. And not just that, but it's FANTASY television. The introduction of the unreal justifies any plot contrivance. Lol you want characters to act rationally in a show with ICE ZOMBIES. Bro think. Realism cannot exist with dragons in the world.

This thread would be better if everyone just shut off their brains, halted any reasonable criticism, and enjoyed the show. I'll start:
DAE like the part with teh poison? Reya just killed every1 and just walked out all slowmo like a BA. So good! Worth the weight. Hope she gets to see John again tho! But first she needs to get Sersee, that gurl needs to go!

 

[wizards8507]

We knew for years that Dragonstone had a hoard of Dragon Glass?

Yes. Sam himself knew, and recalled as much in the episode. Stannis told him.

 

[greyhammer90]

Just an example for those asking about squatters in Dragonstone. Here is a map with Dragonstone on it. Not exactly a place where traveling squatters stumble onto.

From the sea.

It makes some sense that an army would cut their losses and not take the castle with a large force at the door. Though giving up a ridiculously important strategic island is still a bit... eh. Dragonstone is crazy important from a controlling the seas perspective. I would hope that at the very least a few families have scouts watching the castle that we'll see next week. Jaime even predicted that's where they'd be, so the Lannisters at least should have a few scouting parties nearby reporting back.

 

[IrishLion]

Yes. Sam himself knew, and recalled as much in the episode. Stannis told him.

I suck

 

[woolybug25]

You're right we're just expecting too much. After all this is television. There's a limit to how good TV can be. And not just that, but it's FANTASY television. The introduction of the unreal justifies any plot contrivance. Lol you want characters to act rationally in a show with ICE ZOMBIES. Bro think. Realism cannot exist with dragons in the world.

This thread would be better if everyone just shut off their brains, halted any reasonable criticism, and enjoyed the show. I'll start:
DAE like the part with teh poison? Reya just killed every1 and just walked out all slowmo like a BA. So good! Worth the weight. Hope she gets to see John again tho! But first she needs to get Sersee, that gurl needs to go!

15 Annoying Mistakes You Never Noticed In Mad Men

10 Plot Holes That Kind Of Ruin Breaking Bad

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWire/co...st_flaws_on_the_wire/?st=j589i9vc&sh=656699f1

But I appreciate you bringing up Breaking Bad. Which I actually didn't like. I know that isn't a popular opinion, but tried watching it (and Better Call Saul) and they didn't do it for me. I made some posts in those threads inquiring about what I was missing, then left when it was apparent that I had nothing but negativity to add. But with GoT, there is a great contingent that have spent years watching, coming to this thread and posting a bunch of poo poo'ing. I just don't get what you guys get out of trying to ruin other people's enjoyment? I never said that we can't have conversations of what we like and dislike about each episode. But the rest of us don't watch the show waiting to pick out every inconsistency or flaw to point out. You guys aren't just "reasonably criticizing" the show, you guys have consistently over the course of YEARS posted nothing but dislike for the show. I just don't understand the mindset, I suppose.

 

[woolybug25]

It makes some sense that an army would cut their losses and not take the castle with a large force at the door. Though giving up a ridiculously important strategic island is still a bit... eh. Dragonstone is crazy important from a controlling the seas perspective. I would hope that at the very least a few families have scouts watching the castle that we'll see next week. Jaime even predicted that's where they'd be, so the Lannisters at least should have a few scouting parties nearby reporting back.

So tell me, since its clearly what should have happened, what family should be in Dragonstone? Again, it's a island made of freaking rock, so it's not like just anyone could hold it. The people living there would have to be of wealthy house. Since we know all of those houses, please enlighten all of us simpletons on which house that would be.

 

[IrishLion]

Just an example for those asking about squatters in Dragonstone. Here is a map with Dragonstone on it. Not exactly a place where traveling squatters stumble onto.

*map*

I know it's not practical, but I was thinking more along the lines of "we have nowhere else to go, so why not go to where our king would be" or something like that.

They'd be better off looking for new life/work at home, or in any of the land-based holdings, but their former king's castle might present a sort-of "spiritual" destination.

Like, when the world ends, most of us will flock to the doomsday preppers we know. But a bunch of people will migrate towards religious icons and landmarks, even though it doesn't offer them the shelter and resources they actually need.

"End of the world" =/= "Left behind by the king that went to war," obviously, but the idea for "why would they go there" is the same in my mind. It's not a huge deal at all, just thought it would add depth to Dany's return.

 

[woolybug25]

I know it's not practical, but I was thinking more along the lines of "we have nowhere else to go, so why not go to where our king would be" or something like that.

They'd be better off looking for new life/work at home, or in any of the land-based holdings, but their former king's castle might present a sort-of "spiritual" destination.

Like, when the world ends, most of us will flock to the doomsday preppers we know. But a bunch of people will migrate towards religious icons and landmarks, even though it doesn't offer them the shelter and resources they actually need.

"End of the world" =/= "Left behind by the king that went to war," obviously, but the idea for "why would they go there" is the same in my mind. It's not a huge deal at all, just thought it would add depth to Dany's return.

I hear ya, but again... it's an island of rock that's not geographically close to any important city where one could wonder from. It would take wealth and a lot of people to even consider going there. They would need to bring their own food, have ships to replenish supplies and mass amounts of people to work to even survive on the island. If you look at the houses that have the capacity to do that in the story, they have their own house and own problems.

It's not like Gendry could have rowed his dingy up to it and made a go of it there. He would have died of scurvy in a fortnight.

 

[greyhammer90]

So tell me, since its clearly what should have happened, what family should be in Dragonstone? Again, it's a island made of freaking rock, so it's not like just anyone could hold it. The people living there would have to be of wealthy house. Since we know all of those houses, please enlighten all of us simpletons on which house that would be.

Did you read the post you quoted? I literally said it made some sense, and is thus plausible. I just pointed out the flaws in that line of thinking is that it assumes that a group of warring armies would all take a look at this vital island which controls naval access to a large portion of the continent and think "eh, there's a big army coming, lets just let them have it and deal with it later." It doesn't mean you're wrong, its just a weird flaw in that idea. Me personally, I'd think that giving this invading army an enormously important foothold on the doorstep of my kingdom would be important enough that I'd spare the men and money to make Dragonstone look less appetizing than the Red Keep. As to who could do it... An alliance of Tyrells and Martells would probably view the island as important.

Speaking of getting tired of things and not understanding the mindset, do you ever get tired of bending over backwards to excuse what is clearly just lazy/budgeted filmmaking? It's ok to point out that it's weird there are literally no people in an entire castle. That doesn't mean the show sucks. There are people who are overly critical, but there's just as large of a group of people who feel the need to write long excuses for why things in the show that don't appear to make sense "actually do guys look at a map". We both know the reason there was no one in the castle. It wasn't because it made sense. It was because they didn't want to take the time/spend the money/detract from the emotional moment with what would be the reality of the situation.

 

[greyhammer90]

He would have died of scurvy in a fortnight.

This sentence was typed on a computer in 2017.

 

[woolybug25]

Did you read the post you quoted? I literally said it made some sense, and is thus plausible. I just pointed out the flaws in that line of thinking is that it assumes that a group of warring armies would all take a look at this vital island which controls naval access to a large portion of the continent and think "eh, there's a big army coming, lets just let them have it and deal with it later." It doesn't mean you're wrong, its just a weird flaw in that idea. Me personally, I'd think that giving this invading army an enormously important foothold on the doorstep of my kingdom would be important enough that I'd spare the men and money to make Dragonstone look less appetizing than the Red Keep. As to who could do it... An alliance of Tyrells and Martells would probably view the island as important.

That would make sense if all of the Tyrells weren't dead outside of Lady Olenna. Everyone else was killed by dragonfire and were fighting for their livelihood in Kings Landing. So that family is out. The Martells, other than the fact that Dorne is extremely far away from Dragonstone, haven't aligned with Lady Olenna until recent episodes, which means their timelines wouldn't have made sense until now. Which is after that Dany has returned. So in the spirit of your longstanding belief that things should be practical, I think you would be all over this scenario if they were to have tried to do it.

Finally, regarding "a big army coming", the only person that could/would have done that is Cersei, who is currently trying to find enough ships to protect Kings Landing. How much sense would it make to split those limited ships by sending half to Dragonstone along with supplies, etc? Since the first and only banner hung in Dragonstone after Robert's Rebellion was Stannis Baratheon, who else has tried to invade King's Landing?

Speaking of getting tired of things and not understanding the mindset, do you ever get tired of bending over backwards to excuse what is clearly just lazy/budgeted filmmaking? It's ok to point out that it's weird there are literally no people in an entire castle. That doesn't mean the show sucks. There are people who are overly critical, but there's just as large of a group of people who feel the need to write long excuses for why things in the show that don't appear to make sense "actually do guys look at a map". We both know the reason there was no one in the castle. It wasn't because it made sense. It was because they didn't want to take the time/spend the money/detract from the emotional moment with what would be the reality of the situation.

I'm surprised that you have such first hand knowledge of what the directors and writers were thinking when they crafted the scene. Maybe you should write them a letter expressing your displeasure.

 

[greyhammer90]

That would make sense if all of the Tyrells weren't dead outside of Lady Olenna. Everyone else was killed by dragonfire and were fighting for their livelihood in Kings Landing. So that family is out. The Martells, other than the fact that Dorne is extremely far away from Dragonstone, haven't aligned with Lady Olenna until recent episodes, which means their timelines wouldn't have made sense until now. Which is after that Dany has returned. So in the spirit of your longstanding belief that things should be practical, I think you would be all over this scenario if they were to have tried to do .

I wasn't aware the entire Tyrell army was wiped out in the explosion. I don't remember that happening. A branch of the family was killed off but that doesn't make the arguably most powerful family in Westeros "out." Btw has it been confirmed if the Tyrells are actually independents at this point? Or are they friends with Dany now? Maybe that's why they wouldn't fight? (Though they should still have a garrison waiting for her to arrive.)

 

[Rogue219]

Didn't Stannis leave Dragonstone totally empty because he was going to The Wall to begin his march south through Westeros to take the Iron Throne?

I wasn't surprised at all it was totally empty. Stannis put all his chips in when the Red Lady told him he needed to go to The Wall.

 

[GATTACA!]

Yes. Sam himself knew, and recalled as much in the episode. Stannis told him.

All Stannis said was "Yes I know what it is. We have it in Dragonstone." How was Sam supposed to know that he meant they had a gigantic cashe of it under the castle?

You guys are impossible.

 

[wizards8507]

I wasn't aware the entire Tyrell army was wiped out in the explosion. I don't remember that happening. A branch of the family was killed off but that doesn't make the arguably most powerful family in Westeros "out." Btw has it been confirmed if the Tyrells are actually independents at this point? Or are they friends with Dany now? Maybe that's why they wouldn't fight? (Though they should still have a garrison waiting for her to arrive.)

I don't expect we'll see anything from the Tyrells at this point. I think the burning of the Great Sept was a way to eliminate characters and consolidate the plot to avoid confusing people. I 100% expect that to be a show-only creative decision.

 

[woolybug25]

I wasn't aware the entire Tyrell army was wiped out in the explosion. I don't remember that happening. A branch of the family was killed off but that doesn't make the arguably most powerful family in Westeros "out." Btw has it been confirmed if the Tyrells are actually independents at this point? Or are they friends with Dany now? Maybe that's why they wouldn't fight? (Though they should still have a garrison waiting for her to arrive.)

What branch of Tyrell are you speaking of?

Mace Tyrell - DEAD
Margaery Tyrell - DEAD
Loras Tyrell - DEAD
Olenna Tyrell - Alive, old as shit, and in Dorne

In the show, there are no more Tyrells. So again, for practicality purposes, they are not "arguably most powerful family in Westoros", they are barely a family. With no heirs and their only member begging for an allegiance with the Martells.

 

[woolybug25]

Didn't Stannis leave Dragonstone totally empty because he was going to The Wall to begin his march south through Westeros to take the Iron Throne?

I wasn't surprised at all it was totally empty. Stannis put all his chips in when the Red Lady told him he needed to go to The Wall.

You are correct. The banner Dany rips down in the last episode in the throne room is Baratheon.

 

[dublinirish]

The Sand Snakes probably never show up again either.

 

[wizards8507]

You are correct. The banner Dany rips down in the last episode in the throne room is Baratheon.

Not quite. It's Stannis' personal sigil, not the sigil of House Baratheon proper.

 

[woolybug25]

Not quite. It's Stannis' personal sigil, not the sigil of House Baratheon proper.

 

[woolybug25]

Where Are They Now?

Daenerys Targaryen - In Dragonstone, with; Ellaria Sand and the Sand Snakes, Yara and Theon Greyjoy, Tyrion Lannister, Varys, Grey Worm and Missandei. Not to mention, of course, Dany's three dragons. While Olenna Tyrell has pledged her support to Daenerys, it's unclear whether she was physically present on one of the ships. She may be still be in Dorne or back home in Highgarden.

Jon Snow - In Winterfell with Sansa Stark, Brienne, Gendry, Littlefinger, Ser Davos Seaworth, Tormund and the northern lords, including young badass Lyanna Mormont. Planning to mine dragonstone, make weapons and prepare to fight the White Walkers. A raven is enroute with message of Dragon Glass in Dragonstone. That may or may not setup meeting with Dany.

Cersei Lannister - Currently sitting on the Iron Throne at King's Landing, ruling Westeros after the suicide of her son Tommen. Jaime Lannister, The Mountain, Qyburn and Bronn all by her side. Euron Greyjoy hanging out in Blackwater Bay looking for a "gift" for Cersei to convince her to wed him. Is he going out to attack Dany by himself?

Melisandre - Exciled from Winterfell, last seen riding south. Will she intercept Sansa?

Arya Stark - Just punked out the entire Frey family like a boss. Currently on her own on the way to King's Landing. May either bed or kill Ed Sheeran.

Jorah Mormont - In a cell in the Citadel. With his greystone burned off his arm and asking Samuel if Dany has landed yet. Did they cure him?

The Hound - Joined up with Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr (Brotherhood Without Banners) and heading Northwards to take on the White Walkers. The Hound saw the wall and the Walkers in the flames and is in full good guy mode.


Miss anything?

 

[greyhammer90]

What branch of Tyrell are you speaking of?

Mace Tyrell - DEAD
Margaery Tyrell - DEAD
Loras Tyrell - DEAD
Olenna Tyrell - Alive, old as shit, and in Dorne

In the show, there are no more Tyrells. So again, for practicality purposes, they are not "arguably most powerful family in Westoros", they are barely a family. With no heirs and their only member begging for an allegiance with the Martells.

A large portion of the main branch of the family was killed, but that doesn't mean the entire family, their lands which serve as the breadbasket, their bannermen, and their large fortune is just gone. Saying Tyrells are done is like assuming that just because Ned Stark died the entire region of the North doesn't matter anymore. House Tyrell isn't just 3 people. It's a big family with a ton of wealth and an army and sworn families. It also doesn't hurt that the functioning head of the house is still alive. Olenna clearly was the brains of the operation.

 

[woolybug25]

A large portion of the main branch of the family was killed, but that doesn't mean the entire family, their lands which serve as the breadbasket, their bannermen, and their large fortune is just gone. Saying Tyrells are done is like assuming that just because Ned Stark died the entire region of the North doesn't matter anymore. House Tyrell isn't just 3 people. It's a big family with a ton of wealth and an army and sworn families. It also doesn't hurt that the functioning head of the house is still alive. Olenna clearly was the brains of the operation.

First of all, it's not the books. The house is not broad and the only "cousins" mentioned are from Olenna's bloodline, which is not "actually" Tyrell, as she married into the house.

◾It is unclear who the heirs to House Tyrell actually are in the TV continuity at this point - or if the TV series is drastically condensing it so that the Tyrells will be extinct after Olenna Tyrell's eventual death (and Olenna wasn't born a Tyrell, she married into the family). In the Season 6 finale, Olenna only vaguely mentions that with the deaths of her son Mace and her grandchildren Margaery and Loras, Cersei took away her "future". In the novels, they actually have two older brothers, Willas and Garlan, who were omitted from the TV continuity, as Loras was repeatedly said to be the current heir to his father. Moreover, as a large and powerful Great House, in the books they have numerous cousins and second cousins who hold various positions within their reign over the Reach.

The TV continuity technically did acknowledge that other minor Tyrell cousins exist, and they are direct descendants of Olenna. Back in Season 3 episode 4 "And Now His Watch is Ended", an unnamed Tyrell handmaiden - credited only as "Tyrell lady" - actually had a speaking line in which she showed her embroidery to Olenna and asked, "Do you like it, Nana?" - i.e. directly stating that Olenna is her grandmother. In the books many of the minor Tyrell cousins serve as handmaidens to the main members of the family, thus it was always somewhat implied that the background handmaidens that appear in the TV show are actually Tyrell cousins. This "Tyrell lady" was never formally named, but the eldest of Margaery's cousins who serve in her company as handmaidens is Elinor Tyrell (though Elinor isn't a granddaughter but descended from Moryn - Olenna's other granddaughter through Mace's sister is Desmera Redwyne).

◾Of course, given that Mace Tyrell was in the Great Sept with his entire retinue along with Margaery to observe Loras's trial, it is not impossible that all of Margaery's handmaidens, including her cousins, were present in the Great Sept and killed in the explosion.

House Tyrell | Game of Thrones Wiki | FANDOM powered by Wikia

Now, if you want to bring in completely unknown characters (maybe even characters not part of the book arc) into the fold in efforts to make some outside alliance to prove a point, is that really being "pragmatic"? There's no doubt that if they actually tried to pull something like that off, you guys would rip them apart for forcing a storyline or reaching.