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Old Man Mike

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Still sounds like a lot of corrupt "leadership" in many layers to semi-permanently replace with "boots on the ground."

I once home-welcomed a visitor from Honduras for two weeks in my house here in Kalamazoo (a program for qualifying Latin American men who wanted economic training.) Henri was well-spoken in English so we could talk. Honduras was a wild place in most security senses (and FAR smaller than Venezuela.) He worked in the government. And he went "out" into the very uncontrolled countryside doing errands to the power people who controlled their fiefdoms "out there." If there was trouble this was no simple cut-off-a-head-the-body-dies situation, nor were there a great mountain of nice democratic fellows just waiting for a chance to be great guys. These were dangerous powerful (locally) men who RAN things according to very undemocratic ways. Tell me Venezuela is different.

Once Henri was caught between his central government and the outland power people (once that he told me about as an example of REAL LIFE rather than TV fiction.) He had his government car in which he could make it (usually safely) through the streets of distant power peoples' domains and be ushered into their presence. This time he had "bad news" for one of them in terms of how central government wanted him to behave. Henri began his statements. The powerman sat behind his big desk. He slowly drew out a large pistol, and placed it with a notable sound on that desk. He stared at Henri and finally said: THIS is how it's going to be. Any objections? Henri nodded, said (meekly) that he was only the messenger, and escaped with his life.

Lord I wish we'd grow up and admit the hard-assed realities of these things. People are capable of just killing you. In sprawling poor transportation territories, just waving some threat and going elsewhere means almost precisely Zip. STAYING there means long years of getting your ass shot off. Get-the-effing-REAL. Nothing Ha-Ha about this. Even the Oil areas: how else can they be secured for "American Company Control" other than huge military colonies fenced off from the maniac and violent men? When you choose to splatter the organization of government country wide, you create power micro-states and militia insurgencies and gangs. Are they easy to mop up? How many of the "happy" democratic-leaning Venezuelans are chomping at the bit to race into the upper Amazon to kill and conquer them?

SHOULD those people be gotten rid of someway? I can agree to that. What totally disgusts me is goonish followers and fantasizers thinking that this will be oh so rosy and quick with minimal soldier involvement.
 

Fbolt

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Congrats for your two week indoc.
Still sounds like a lot of corrupt "leadership" in many layers to semi-permanently replace with "boots on the ground."

I once home-welcomed a visitor from Honduras for two weeks in my house here in Kalamazoo (a program for qualifying Latin American men who wanted economic training.) Henri was well-spoken in English so we could talk. Honduras was a wild place in most security senses (and FAR smaller than Venezuela.) He worked in the government. And he went "out" into the very uncontrolled countryside doing errands to the power people who controlled their fiefdoms "out there." If there was trouble this was no simple cut-off-a-head-the-body-dies situation, nor were there a great mountain of nice democratic fellows just waiting for a chance to be great guys. These were dangerous powerful (locally) men who RAN things according to very undemocratic ways. Tell me Venezuela is different.

Once Henri was caught between his central government and the outland power people (once that he told me about as an example of REAL LIFE rather than TV fiction.) He had his government car in which he could make it (usually safely) through the streets of distant power peoples' domains and be ushered into their presence. This time he had "bad news" for one of them in terms of how central government wanted him to behave. Henri began his statements. The powerman sat behind his big desk. He slowly drew out a large pistol, and placed it with a notable sound on that desk. He stared at Henri and finally said: THIS is how it's going to be. Any objections? Henri nodded, said (meekly) that he was only the messenger, and escaped with his life.

Lord I wish we'd grow up and admit the hard-assed realities of these things. People are capable of just killing you. In sprawling poor transportation territories, just waving some threat and going elsewhere means almost precisely Zip. STAYING there means long years of getting your ass shot off. Get-the-effing-REAL. Nothing Ha-Ha about this. Even the Oil areas: how else can they be secured for "American Company Control" other than huge military colonies fenced off from the maniac and violent men? When you choose to splatter the organization of government country wide, you create power micro-states and militia insurgencies and gangs. Are they easy to mop up? How many of the "happy" democratic-leaning Venezuelans are chomping at the bit to race into the upper Amazon to kill and conquer them?

SHOULD those people be gotten rid of someway? I can agree to that. What totally disgusts me is goonish followers and fantasizers thinking that this will be oh so rosy and quick with minimal soldier involvement.
 

Old Man Mike

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[[The following comment was addressed to a post which is now deleted. It was certainly not directed to LAX's post. (which I interpret as merely an expected celebratory release piece of news.) My comments below reflect some "other" comments made by a person naming himself fbolt, about me being indoctrinated by my (very nice houseguest), who I worried about him surviving when he went back there.]]

That charitable action by me was in the 1980s and done through our local protestant and catholic parishes (the home welcoming part.) The program was US Government sponsored (during the Reagan Era.) So just shove your Indoctrination comment up your ass. Everything (in general description) about the Honduras situation has LONG been shown true by history. So shove your indoctrination comment up your ass. Yeh, man, "you been around."

Thank the powers that be on the IE staff for the Ignore button. Bless you.
 
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Bluto

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I’m visualizing Marco Rubio sitting on Trumps head and steering him around like Rattatouille on this one.

FYI, Maduro had already agreed to allow the US to have the oil and mineral rights and to a transition of power before all this nonsense.

Pretty clear the whole America First anti neocon stuff was just a bunch of bullshit.
 
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IrishLax

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I’m visualizing Marco Rubio sitting on Trumps head and steering him around like Rattatouille on this one.

FYI, Maduro had already agreed to allow the US to have the oil and mineral rights and to a transition of power before all this nonsense.

Pretty clear the whole America First anti neocon stuff was just a bunch of bullshit.
Is this true? Got a link?
 

Bluto

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Is this true? Got a link?
Saggar Engetti, Ryan Grim ect…have been reporting on this at Breaking Points since the first boat strikes.

I’ll see if I can dig up some of the episodes where they discussed what I stated.
 

Fbolt

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AI Overview



In a recent
"Breaking Points" podcast, likely from the December 17, 2025 episode titled "Trump Demands Venezuelan Oil and Land," the hosts discussed reports that Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro had offered the U.S. government unprecedented access to Venezuela's oil and mineral wealth in exchange for the cessation of hostilities and sanctions relief.
The podcast discussed how:
  • Maduro, through backchannel negotiations, privately proposed redirecting oil exports from countries like China, Russia, and Iran to the United States.
  • The offer included granting preferential contracts to American companies, such as Chevron and Shell, for current and future oil and gold projects.
  • According to a piece in Drop Site News co-authored by Breaking Points' Ryan Grim and Saagar Enjeti, the Trump administration was reportedly swayed by arguments from some advisors (like Marco Rubio) that regime change was the better way to secure Venezuela's oil reserves, rather than taking Maduro's deal.
  • The discussions highlighted the U.S. administration's shifting rationales for its actions against Venezuela, initially focusing on drug trafficking and later shifting to claims of "stolen American oil".
Recent news reports in early January 2026 indicate that in an interview aired on New Year's Day, Maduro publicly stated that Venezuela was "ready" for U.S. investment in its oil industry and open to negotiating with the U.S..




-Shifting rationales. Probably something the Admin doesn't want anyone questioning. The presser this morning was all about Oil-Oil-Oil.
 

Bluto

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AI Overview



In a recent
"Breaking Points" podcast, likely from the December 17, 2025 episode titled "Trump Demands Venezuelan Oil and Land," the hosts discussed reports that Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro had offered the U.S. government unprecedented access to Venezuela's oil and mineral wealth in exchange for the cessation of hostilities and sanctions relief.
The podcast discussed how:
  • Maduro, through backchannel negotiations, privately proposed redirecting oil exports from countries like China, Russia, and Iran to the United States.
  • The offer included granting preferential contracts to American companies, such as Chevron and Shell, for current and future oil and gold projects.
  • According to a piece in Drop Site News co-authored by Breaking Points' Ryan Grim and Saagar Enjeti, the Trump administration was reportedly swayed by arguments from some advisors (like Marco Rubio) that regime change was the better way to secure Venezuela's oil reserves, rather than taking Maduro's deal.
  • The discussions highlighted the U.S. administration's shifting rationales for its actions against Venezuela, initially focusing on drug trafficking and later shifting to claims of "stolen American oil".
Recent news reports in early January 2026 indicate that in an interview aired on New Year's Day, Maduro publicly stated that Venezuela was "ready" for U.S. investment in its oil industry and open to negotiating with the U.S..




-Shifting rationales. Probably something the Admin doesn't want anyone questioning. The presser this morning was all about Oil-Oil-Oil.
Right, but I don’t think it’s even about Oil.

It’s definitely not about drugs or corrupt dictators.

I think it’s about the revenge fever dream held by anti-communist Cold War, lunatics in South Beach who haven’t been able to move on since the Bay of Pigs.

We’ll see.
 

Fbolt

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I think it’s about the revenge fever dream held by anti-communist Cold War, lunatics in South Beach who haven’t been able to move on since the Bay of Pigs.

Thanks for your unbiased thoughts-it did make me laugh. So, this was done by the anti-Castro Cubans in Miami? Btw, President JFK sanctioned that Covert Action.
 

Bluto

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I think it’s about the revenge fever dream held by anti-communist Cold War, lunatics in South Beach who haven’t been able to move on since the Bay of Pigs.

Thanks for your unbiased thoughts-it did make me laugh. So, this was done by the anti-Castro Cubans in Miami? Btw, President JFK sanctioned that Covert Action.
No, this whole thing was spearheaded by the current Secretary of State who has a long history demonstrating he is one of said lunatics from Miami.

I understand what JFK did. It was a disaster and those dipshits in Miami haven’t been able to move on since and here we are.
 
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Bishop2b5

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The same people here who are crying the loudest about this would be singing for joy and praising it as the greatest use of American military might since WWII if some weak liberal like Obama or Biden had done it. I'd give 100:1 odds on that and already be counting my winnings. They have no idea if this is good, bad, great, a disaster, or anything else. It's Trump. They're going to condemn it and pontificate and wring their hands.
 

NDVirginia19

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Saggar Engetti, Ryan Grim ect…have been reporting on this at Breaking Points since the first boat strikes.

I’ll see if I can dig up some of the episodes where they discussed what I stated.
Seems like pretty legit news that would have been picked up by literally every other outlet if it was true.
 

Bluto

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The same people here who are crying the loudest about this would be singing for joy and praising it as the greatest use of American military might since WWII if some weak liberal like Obama or Biden had done it. I'd give 100:1 odds on that and already be counting my winnings. They have no idea if this is good, bad, great, a disaster, or anything else. It's Trump. They're going to condemn it and pontificate and wring their hands.
Which people might those be?

The US track record over the last 60 years regarding this type of shit has been demonstrably a disaster for the actual residents of said countries. Defenition of insanity and all that.

It is Trump, being a belligerent dumb fuck because that’s who he is and shame on Congress for allowing this.

Choosing military action when a diplomatic deal was on the table that was brokered by his own administration which Maduro was ready to accept that would have achieved all of their stated goals makes this even dumber than it already is.
 
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Bluto

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Seems like pretty legit news that would have been picked up by literally every other outlet if it was true.
Really?

Kind of like the WMD’s in Iraq?

Or the fact that Venezuela isn’t a major source of any drugs coming into the US?

Or that after blowing up one “drug boat” all those on board who survived were released without charges?

Or that there was the potential for a deal brokered through diplomatic channels by Grinnell (i.e. Trumps own administration) who was then sidelined by Rubio?

Some of this stuff was being reported, per usual the US Press blew it by focusing on inane bullshit.

Probably didn’t help that the Pentagon Press corps is now a bunch of tic-tok influencers due to even right wing outlets like News Max loosing their credentials because they refused to agree with the new restrictions Hegseth put in place.

 
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Bluto

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I think everyone can agree that Congress abdicating their War Powers to any president is a huge problem and needs to be reeled in ASAP.
 

Fbolt

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I'd say there is very little that would unite the parties to agree on an action/inaction. Anything Congress would "vote" on would be a talking point to attack the other party. This division is ridiculous, and we'll need some level of unification for the following Presidents and Congresspersons.
 

Bluto

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And none of them will be going back, just like the al-Qaeda loving Syrians after they got what they "wanted". Lmao.
The icing on the cake from all this is that the Venezuelan government had agreed to and was in the act of repatriating all the Venezuelans Trump was rounding up and deporting.

Given the recent incompetence on display at the DOJ I would not be surprised if the legal case against Maduro falls apart if he is in fact charged in a US Court.
 
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drayer54

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Venezuelans ex-pats rejoicing, btw. Literal celebrations here in DC, people crying and hugging.

Everyone but the radical left, China, Russia, and Cuba seems pretty happy about it.

I do agree with that. Congress has been abdicating most of its responsibility to the executive branch for the past century
Congress doesn't want to be accountable or go on the record for things. We've neutered on of our checks and balances and have unelected people who are not accountable to the public making policy decisions. They delegated the legislative branch to the alphabet agencies and President long-ago. Congress has been reduced to appropriations bills, post offices, and judges.
 

drayer54

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I think this is what most people are upset about.
Had Trump informed congress, it would have been leaked and compromised the safety of the troops involved in the mission. I don't think it's significant for 2.5 hour military operations. I don't understand seeing the joy in Venezuela, the narco terrorist in NY, the safe return of our troops, and the strategic gain for the US and saying, "but congress!" Our President is very appreciated in Venezuela right now.

We're weeks removed from drone striking Maduro's traffickers and being told it would be fine if they faced trial. Well, this guy is going to face trial. Now what?

There should be some threshold for where Congressional approval is required. Strategic strikes like this or Iran are moot IMO. We also know we have sympathizers for these nations in our own government, so confidentiality is a legitimate concern.
G9wjL6SXUAAu1PC
 

ColoradoIrish

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Had Trump informed congress, it would have been leaked and compromised the safety of the troops involved in the mission. I don't think it's significant for 2.5 hour military operations. I don't understand seeing the joy in Venezuela, the narco terrorist in NY, the safe return of our troops, and the strategic gain for the US and saying, "but congress!" Our President is very appreciated in Venezuela right now.

We're weeks removed from drone striking Maduro's traffickers and being told it would be fine if they faced trial. Well, this guy is going to face trial. Now what?

There should be some threshold for where Congressional approval is required. Strategic strikes like this or Iran are moot IMO. We also know we have sympathizers for these nations in our own government, so confidentiality is a legitimate concern.
G9wjL6SXUAAu1PC
So your perfectly ok with whoever the president is unilaterally declaring war against other nations?
 
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