Foreign Policy

[Whiskeyjack]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am amazed at the number of people out China hawking me this week. There is a shift in the ground here that I don’t have a precedent for</p>— T. Greer (@Scholars_Stage) <a href="https://twitter.com/Scholars_Stage/status/1240023548661555200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish YJ]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I am amazed at the number of people out China hawking me this week. There is a shift in the ground here that I don’t have a precedent for</p>— T. Greer (@Scholars_Stage) <a href="https://twitter.com/Scholars_Stage/status/1240023548661555200?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

China told all Journalists who have credentials that expire in the next year, that they have 10 days to turn their credentials in, and leave China.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

China told all Journalists who have credentials that expire in the next year, that they have 10 days to turn their credentials in, and leave China.

He mentions that farther down the thread. Click through and read the whole thing if you haven't. China may come to regret crowing about their superior handling of the virus, blaming it on us, and then kicking out our reporters.

 

[Irish YJ]

He mentions that farther down the thread. Click through and read the whole thing if you haven't. China may come to regret crowing about their superior handling of the virus, blaming it on us, and then kicking out our reporters.

I read it. It read a bit like an academia circle jerk, so might have missed that part. Why can't academia just say what they mean instead of trying to sound scholarly. The guy could have stated clearly what he was trying to convey in a third of the words/tweets. And they wonder why they lose the masses.

Whiskey, anyone do any research/theory work on how academia has become so detached from the norm?

 

[Old Man Mike]

As a former academic, I lived that path, so, yes, I and many others understand the divide. You ask a seemingly simple question. And that's where our problem will start.

I, the potential answering person, know that this is VERY complex (not as bad as economics, environmentalism, politics, but complex for sure.) I have two routes I can take: give you a simple and potentially wildly misleading answer, leaving you possibly even more ignorant about the issue than when you asked, or begin the much lengthier process of actually trying to lay out the facts and other dimensions.

If I'm writing a paper or giving a talk or some other statement wherein I have room to work, my DUTY as an academic is clarity and discipline. That means "going on about it" for a serious while. My colleagues in the profession not only understand this, THEY ABSOLUTELY DEMAND IT. If I don't approach complex subjects with the discipline and detail that they need, I am not listened to, may be called a lightweight or a shallow quack, and for sure will not get anything published.

However, if I get a microphone or camera shoved in my face, and, not being stupid, I know that this is a 30 second to a minute news-bit, I'm screwed. I can say nothing, which is the academically honest and disciplined thing to do, or I can TRY to do the impossible --- drop not quite down to the streetcorner simplistic BS level, and say something which I hope is "in the direction of the truth", and is one minute long (because that's all the attention span allows.) I sincerely hope that any such brevity will do no harm, but am almost always wrong. People, ignorant or full of agenda or both, manipulate any short remarks into almost unrecognizable monstrosities. ... so, mostly I say: That's a really complicated issue; if you really want to know I'll talk to you about it for awhile. Our academic experience is that people really don't want that sort of talk.

The problem, therefore, is not "academia" if we're honest about it. The problem is:

1. The issues are almost always really complicated and take some time to explain them;
2. The issues are almost always so complicated that they ask THE QUESTIONERS to do some study themselves, and seriously;
3. Upon study, the issues almost always turn out to be NOT black and white, but much subtler and multidimensional--- people don't like that, and are, frankly, lousy at managing gray-area things in their minds (this is called "ability to use higher cognitive skills" and is a whole educational discipline);
4. The gray-area situations tend to force the academic students of these issues to be more open to shifting their views on what might be extremely important things. The general population not only hates this, but will not tolerate it. It gets labeled "flip-flopping" at worst or sitting the fence, and rather than being seen as a healthy mentally growing characteristic, becomes damning to the alleged flip-flopper, who is no longer listened to; (sitting the fence to some degree is what the entirety of academic pursuit is supposed to be);
5. The mere habit of staying open to changing one's views is almost a prime law of academia as the whole purpose of the academic community is to evolve the state of knowledge beyond the present condition. Not all academics are equally good at this, but it is nevertheless the rule of our tribe. And, as you doubtless sense, this not-all-black-and-white nor fixed-in-place mental trait tends to drive the academic away from certain political behaviors and party dogmas.

I'm going to stop there. The question isn't yet answered. I feel that maybe enough has been said though to indicate a direction which leads more close to the truth than away from it.

 

[Irish YJ]

As a former academic, I lived that path, so, yes, I and many others understand the divide. You ask a seemingly simple question. And that's where our problem will start.

I, the potential answering person, know that this is VERY complex (not as bad as economics, environmentalism, politics, but complex for sure.) I have two routes I can take: give you a simple and potentially wildly misleading answer, leaving you possibly even more ignorant about the issue than when you asked, or begin the much lengthier process of actually trying to lay out the facts and other dimensions.

If I'm writing a paper or giving a talk or some other statement wherein I have room to work, my DUTY as an academic is clarity and discipline. That means "going on about it" for a serious while. My colleagues in the profession not only understand this, THEY ABSOLUTELY DEMAND IT. If I don't approach complex subjects with the discipline and detail that they need, I am not listened to, may be called a lightweight or a shallow quack, and for sure will not get anything published.

However, if I get a microphone or camera shoved in my face, and, not being stupid, I know that this is a 30 second to a minute news-bit, I'm screwed. I can say nothing, which is the academically honest and disciplined thing to do, or I can TRY to do the impossible --- drop not quite down to the streetcorner simplistic BS level, and say something which I hope is "in the direction of the truth", and is one minute long (because that's all the attention span allows.) I sincerely hope that any such brevity will do no harm, but am almost always wrong. People, ignorant or full of agenda or both, manipulate any short remarks into almost unrecognizable monstrosities. ... so, mostly I say: That's a really complicated issue; if you really want to know I'll talk to you about it for awhile. Our academic experience is that people really don't want that sort of talk.

The problem, therefore, is not "academia" if we're honest about it. The problem is:

1. The issues are almost always really complicated and take some time to explain them;
2. The issues are almost always so complicated that they ask THE QUESTIONERS to do some study themselves, and seriously;
3. Upon study, the issues almost always turn out to be NOT black and white, but much subtler and multidimensional--- people don't like that, and are, frankly, lousy at managing gray-area things in their minds (this is called "ability to use higher cognitive skills" and is a whole educational discipline);
4. The gray-area situations tend to force the academic students of these issues to be more open to shifting their views on what might be extremely important things. The general population not only hates this, but will not tolerate it. It gets labeled "flip-flopping" at worst or sitting the fence, and rather than being seen as a healthy mentally growing characteristic, becomes damning to the alleged flip-flopper, who is no longer listened to; (sitting the fence to some degree is what the entirety of academic pursuit is supposed to be);
5. The mere habit of staying open to changing one's views is almost a prime law of academia as the whole purpose of the academic community is to evolve the state of knowledge beyond the present condition. Not all academics are equally good at this, but it is nevertheless the rule of our tribe. And, as you doubtless sense, this not-all-black-and-white nor fixed-in-place mental trait tends to drive the academic away from certain political behaviors and party dogmas.

I'm going to stop there. The question isn't yet answered. I feel that maybe enough has been said though to indicate a direction which leads more close to the truth than away from it.

Thanks OMM for the thoughtful answer. I come from a very large family, and have several academics on both sides, 3 that I've been close to at one time or another. One of them is very clear and direct in conveying their ideas, one is more interested in sounding smart/clever, and one simply gets lost in the detail so bad that the original thought/topic is often lost in the process.

To keep things short.... Life is full of shades of grey, and I think the common folk understand that. I understand when writing a paper or giving a speech, you're talking to a different crowd, and use a different approach. When outside of the bubble though, or when using social media, you have to be like #1 above instead of 2 and 3. Clever, big words, minutia, etc will turn people off very quickly.

Thinking about it now, #1 above is very well rounded, and lives outside the bubble as much as in. #2 and 3 don't get out of the bubble often nearly as much, and IMO would struggle if ever forced to make a living outside the bubble. #2 is kind of snobby, and simply prefers the bubble. #3 is just a bit introverted, and I think simply gets lost in his brain. Been around all their friends, and it's strangely predictable who they elect to hang with.

In short, academia is very smart obviously, but some, perhaps many, are simply ignorant about how they are viewed by the rest of the world, or simply lack self awareness. Some that are self aware, brush it off with superioirty. On a slightly related topic, and just my personal opinion, but I'd prefer universities require world experience in a large part of % of their faculty. I flash back to some of my profs, and holy cow they would completely fail at what they teach.

 

[Irish#1]

(CNN)An Iranian naval exercise accident in the Gulf of Oman has killed 19 sailors and injured 15 others, Iran's state media reported on Monday.

State media initially said that the servicemen were killed in a "misguided missile attack" but later dropped references to the nature of the incident, warning people not to "speculate" about it.
The incident happened near the southern Iranian port city of Jask. Iranian authorities later released photos of the Konorak ship docked at a harbor in an apparent bid to dispel rumors that the vessel had sunk.
The Konorak, a logistical vessel armed with a 20mm-caliber cannon and anti-ship cruise missile launchers, was damaged at night, according official and semi-official media. The Konorak also goes on reconnaissance missions and lays mines. Some 40 people were on board.
Iran, which was already buckling under the strain of US sanctions, is also tackling one of the world's biggest outbreaks of the coronavirus pandemic.
In a tweet last month, President Donald Trump instructed the US Navy to "shoot down and destroy any and all Iranian gunboats" that harass US ships.
The tweet came after the US Navy released video that it said shows Iranian naval vessels repeatedly conducting "dangerous and harassing approaches" towards US Navy warships in the North Arabian Sea. The Navy claimed that one Iranian vessel came within 10 yards of colliding with a US ship.

 

[Irish#1]

Didn't see anything on the news about this. Some pretty serious stuff here. Another example of China's intentions as evidenced by the amount of money they were paying this guy. You have to wonder how many others they have working for them?

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/28/8004...arrested-accused-of-lying-about-ties-to-china

Acclaimed Harvard Scientist Is Arrested, Accused Of Lying About Ties To China

An FBI affidavit that lays out the case against Charles Lieber includes what federal prosecutors say is a contract between the Harvard researcher and a university in China.
U.S. Attorney's Office/Screenshot by NPR
Updated at 3:20 p.m. ET

Charles Lieber, the chair of Harvard University's Department of Chemistry and Chemical Biology, has been arrested and criminally charged with making "false, fictitious and fraudulent statements" to the U.S. Defense Department about his ties to a Chinese government program to recruit foreign scientists and researchers.

The Justice Department says Lieber, 60, lied about his contact with the Chinese program known as the Thousand Talents Plan, which the U.S. has previously flagged as a serious intelligence concern. He also is accused of lying about about a lucrative contract he signed with China's Wuhan University of Technology.

In an affidavit unsealed Tuesday, FBI Special Agent Robert Plumb said Lieber, who led a Harvard research group focusing on nanoscience, had established a research lab at the Wuhan university — apparently unbeknownst to Harvard.

In response to the charges against Lieber, Harvard said in a statement to NPR: "The charges brought by the U.S. government against Professor Lieber are extremely serious. Harvard is cooperating with federal authorities, including the National Institutes of Health, and is initiating its own review of the alleged misconduct. Professor Lieber has been placed on indefinite administrative leave."

The arrangement between Lieber and the Chinese institution spanned "significant" periods of time between at least 2012 and 2017, according to the affidavit. It says the deal called for Lieber to be paid up to $50,000 a month, in addition to $150,000 per year "for living and personal expenses."

"Lieber was also awarded more than $1.5 million by WUT and the Chinese government to establish a research lab and conduct research at WUT," the document states.

For a large part of the time frame in question, Lieber was also the principal investigator on at least six U.S. Defense Department research grants, with a cumulative value of more than $8 million, according to the affidavit. It also says he was the principal investigator on more than $10 million in grants funded by the National Institutes of Health.

"These grants require the disclosure of significant foreign financial conflicts of interest, including financial support from foreign governments or foreign entities," the U.S. Attorney's Office in Massachusetts said in a statement announcing the charges against Lieber.

In interviews with Defense Department investigators in 2018 and 2019, Lieber said that while he had heard of the Thousand Talents Plan, he had never been asked to be part of it, according to the affidavit. Lieber's email correspondence suggests he signed a three-year agreement and employment contract with WUT in 2012.

"Lieber was obligated to work for WUT 'not less than nine months a year' by 'declaring international cooperation projects, cultivating young teachers and Ph.D. students, organizing international conference, applying for patents and publishing articles in the name of' WUT," the U.S. Attorney's Office said.

On its website, the Lieber Research Group at Harvard says its work is meant "to push scientific boundaries in biology and medicine."

Lieber's work ranged from looking for new ways to produce nanoscale materials to researching areas nanoelectronic sensors and developing "cyborg tissue" that would integrate nanoelectronic devices into synthetic tissue.

In 2017, Harvard bestowed its highest faculty honor on Lieber, naming him a University Professor – a title he shared with only 25 other faculty members, as The Harvard Gazette reported. But the acclaimed academic is now barred from the university's campus.

An arrest warrant for Lieber was issued Monday. The U.S. Attorney's Office case against him initially was sealed after being filed in federal court; a court order lifted that seal Tuesday morning.


U.S. officials have repeatedly warned that China's ambitious Thousand Talents program could put a wide range of U.S. scientific interests at risk. "The worry is that China might be eroding America's technology advantage — not just by support for research, but also by theft of scientific ideas and corporate espionage," as NPR's Joe Palca reported in 2018.

John Demers, assistant attorney general for national security and head of the Justice Department's China Initiative, said in a statement that the charges against Lieber "illustrate the serious and persistent threat of China's efforts to steal intellectual property and research from our nation's universities."

He added, "American universities, while maintaining the open and collaborative research and learning environment that has made them the best in the world, should take this threat seriously and continue to take actions to confront it, including ensuring transparency in their programs' funding sources and their professors' commitments, and having secure physical and internet security for their sensitive research."

The case against Lieber was one of three announced Tuesday by the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boston that officials say illustrate the threat of Chinese economic espionage.

Yanqing Ye, 29, who is currently in China, is charged with one count each of "visa fraud, making false statements, acting as an agent of a foreign government and conspiracy." She had been working at Boston University and is accused of lying about her position as a lieutenant in the Chinese military.

Zaosong Zheng, 30, was arrested last month at Boston's Logan International Airport and is charged with allegedly attempting to smuggle vials of biological materials and other research materials stolen from U.S labs. Zheng, who was a a Harvard-sponsored cancer researcher, has been indicted on that charge along with a count of making false statements.

Lieber earned his doctorate in chemistry from Stanford University in 1985. Before he joined Harvard in 1991, his academic career included stops at the California Institute of Technology and Columbia University.

 

[Legacy]

Behind China’s Twitter Campaign, a Murky Supporting Chorus
Swarms of accounts are amplifying Beijing’s brash new messaging as the country tries to shape the global narrative about the coronavirus and much else. (June 8, 2020, NY Times)

As the Trump administration lashes out at China over a range of grievances, Beijing’s top diplomats and representatives are using the president’s favorite online megaphone — Twitter — to slap back with a pugnaciousness that is best described as Trumpian.

Behind China’s combative new messengers, a murky hallelujah chorus of sympathetic accounts has emerged to repost them and cheer them on. Many are new to the platform. Some do little else but amplify the Beijing line.

No doubt some of these accounts are run by patriotic, tech-savvy Chinese people who get around their government’s ban on Twitter and other Western platforms. But an analysis by The New York Times found that many of the accounts behaved with a single-mindedness that could suggest a coordinated campaign of the type that nation states have carried out on Twitter in the past. (cont)

 

[Irish YJ]

LOL Putin.
I wonder if the US embassies in the ME did the same.
I think I'd vote for Mayor Pete now just to see how his meetings with Putin would go.


Putin mocks U.S. embassy for flying rainbow flag

MOSCOW (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin on Friday mocked the U.S. embassy in Moscow for flying a rainbow flag to celebrate LGBT rights, suggesting it reflected the sexual orientation of its staff.

 

[Irish YJ]

For anyone who has been pro-UN.... It's becoming more and more a joke. We need to discontinue aid to every country supporting. IIRC, the US was the first to begin the process of sanctions. Canada has been highly critical too.

At UN Human Rights Council, 53 countries back China's draconian Hong Kong crackdown
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/at-un-human-rights-council-53-back-chinas-hong-kong-crackdown

Supporting: China, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahrain, Belarus, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Comoros, Congo-Brazzaville, Cuba, Djibouti, Dominica, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Gabon, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Lesotho, Mauritania, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nepal, Nicaragua, Niger, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Papua New Guinea, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, UAE, Venezuela, Yemen, Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Opposing: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Belize, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Iceland, Ireland, Germany, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Marshall Islands, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Palau, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, and the U.K.

 

[TorontoGold]

For anyone who has been pro-UN.... It's becoming more and more a joke. We need to discontinue aid to every country supporting. IIRC, the US was the first to begin the process of sanctions. Canada has been highly critical too.

At UN Human Rights Council, 53 countries back China's draconian Hong Kong crackdown
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/at-un-human-rights-council-53-back-chinas-hong-kong-crackdown

Supporting: China, Antigua and Barbuda, Bahrain, Belarus, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Comoros, Congo-Brazzaville, Cuba, Djibouti, Dominica, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Gabon, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Lesotho, Mauritania, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Nepal, Nicaragua, Niger, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Papua New Guinea, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Sudan, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Suriname, Syria, Tajikistan, Togo, UAE, Venezuela, Yemen, Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Opposing: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Belize, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Iceland, Ireland, Germany, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Marshall Islands, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Palau, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, and the U.K.

Holy hell, the supporting group......not good.

 

[Irish YJ]

Holy hell, the supporting group......not good.

The irony of many of those countries even being on the UN Human Rights Council is hilarious. It's a F'ing joke. Just read that the UK is offering paths to citizenship for many eligible folks in HK. Canada ended it's extradition pact with HK too. I guarantee many of those in the opposed group, are sending millions and billions to those in the supporting group, and that shit needs to stop.

 

[Irishize]

This is really cool & hopeful in regards to peace in the Middle East long term.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wow.<br><br>Here is an Arab Islamic Qur’an scholar from the UAE using his 1.6m follower count to publicly *defend* a Jewish IDF Israeli, for protecting the UAE flag. <br><br>Take heart. <br><br>Peace is coming &#55358;&#56831;❤️ <a href="https://t.co/LkhD0f1u0f">https://t.co/LkhD0f1u0f</a></p>— Maajid أبو عمّار (@MaajidNawaz) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1294628721270431746?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Bluto]

This is really cool & hopeful in regards to peace in the Middle East long term.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wow.<br><br>Here is an Arab Islamic Qur’an scholar from the UAE using his 1.6m follower count to publicly *defend* a Jewish IDF Israeli, for protecting the UAE flag. <br><br>Take heart. <br><br>Peace is coming ��❤️ <a href="https://t.co/LkhD0f1u0f">https://t.co/LkhD0f1u0f</a></p>— Maajid أبو عمّار (@MaajidNawaz) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1294628721270431746?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This has more to do with Iran vs Saudi Arabia et al and is propaganda, but yeah “peace is coming”.

 

[Irishize]

This has more to do with Iran vs Saudi Arabia et al and is propaganda, but yeah “peace is coming”.

Propaganda like the chaos & destruction everyone assured was coming when the embassy was moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem? Been pretty quiet on that front.

 

[Bluto]

Propaganda like the chaos & destruction everyone assured was coming when the embassy was moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem? Been pretty quiet on that front.

Not really. Just because the US press isn’t covering it does t mean it’s not happening.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...d-as-border-protests-resume-in-gaza-1.9075551

https://apple.news/ARBHPf3SnSz2DduMIrd0JJA

 

[Irishize]

Not really. Just because the US press isn’t covering it does t mean it’s not happening.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...d-as-border-protests-resume-in-gaza-1.9075551

https://apple.news/ARBHPf3SnSz2DduMIrd0JJA

You think that is worse than the prior decades? Nope. If it was, the MSM would be celebrating it b/c it would’ve been something to rub in Trump’s face.

This was a peace for peace deal w/ the UAE...not peace for land. The view of the Left is that if you undercut Israel then the Arabs will be more likely to make peace. That’s a lie. If that were the case why would peace deals ever get made?

You can tell it’s a good deal based on who opposes it: Iran, Turkey, Ben Rhodes, Rhashida Talib

 

[Irish#1]

This has more to do with Iran vs Saudi Arabia et al and is propaganda, but yeah “peace is coming”.

Like it or not. it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Bluto]

Like it or not. it's a step in the right direction.

In what way? It does nothing to settle the issues in the West Bank and Gaza.

It does formalize what has been going on for a couple decades now. That is the Arab states and Israel vs. Iran/Iraq.

This could just as easily be looked at as a prelude to war. We shall see.

The thing that continues to make me shake my head is that we seem to have aligned ourselves with and have been conditioned to believe that the players that have been caught red handed spying on and stealing classified materials from the US (Israel) and funded and produced the only terrorist organizations from the region that I'm aware of that have engaged in terrorist attacks on US and European soil (Saudis and the UAE) are our "friends" and the economic interests of those parties align with the national interests and security interests of the US.

I seem to recall a recent case of "the market" and "economic ties" will bring us all together approach going off the rails.

Anyhow, below is a link to a pretty good series from Frontline that looks at the Iran and Saudi rivalry.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/bitter-rivals-iran-and-saudi-arabia/

 

[Bluto]

You think that is worse than the prior decades? Nope. If it was, the MSM would be celebrating it b/c it would’ve been something to rub in Trump’s face.

This was a peace for peace deal w/ the UAE...not peace for land. The view of the Left is that if you undercut Israel then the Arabs will be more likely to make peace. That’s a lie. If that were the case why would peace deals ever get made?

You can tell it’s a good deal based on who opposes it: Iran, Turkey, Ben Rhodes, Rhashida Talib

I think it's as bad as previous decades. There are what four civil wars in the region with multiple parties involved, one of whom happens to be a member of NATO. But hey, direct flights to Abu Dhabi!

UAE and Israel decide to formalize ties? Good for them. The problem I have is this is being pumped up like the Treaty of Versailles by some parties.

Any "peace" deal that does not include Iran, Iraq and Turkey (you know the member of NATO) could just as easily be seen as a prelude to war. Hmmm...maybe the Treaty of Versailles is an apt comparison after all...lol.

 

[Irishize]

I think it's as bad as previous decades. There are what four civil wars in the region with multiple parties involved, one of whom happens to be a member of NATO. But hey, direct flights to Abu Dhabi!

UAE and Israel decide to formalize ties? Good for them. The problem I have is this is being pumped up like the Treaty of Versailles by some parties.

Any "peace" deal that does not include Iran, Iraq and Turkey (you know the member of NATO) could just as easily be seen as a prelude to war. Hmmm...maybe the Treaty of Versailles is an apt comparison after all...lol.

I get that & it’s a fair point but look how often any meaningful peace deals get done. Carter brokered the Camp David meeting between Egypt & Israel. Then Clinton did the same w/ PLO & Israel in the mid-90s. That’s it.

The fact that Israel has a peace deal w/ UAE, Jordan, Egypt is not nothing. UAE realized they’re sick of Iran being a terrorist state and they stepped up. It also makes Palestine look petty when fellow Muslim countries are able to reach a compromise.

Now if it’s certain talking heads or media giving Trump kudos, don’t worry. He ain’t getting reelected. Begin & Sadat couldn’t do anything to help Carter’s horrible presidency so this won’t do much for Trump’s either.

You’re one of the few cats on here who I disagree with on stuff but at least you don’t toe a party line. I respect that. I hate the fact that everything has to be so binary today. Why can’t a person be in support of some things that the Dem platform supports & some things for what the Rep platform supports and still think both are too out of touch to go “all in” with?

Anyways, thanks for the civil discourse.

 

[Irish#1]

Not the first time Putn has pulled this trick.


Putin rival Alexei Navalny in a coma after alleged poisoning

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/20/russian-opposition-politician-navalny-poisoned-hospitalized.html

 

[Irish YJ]

The UN is such a joke.

Addition of Cuba, China, Russia to UN Human Rights Council draws criticism
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...un-human-rights-council-draws-criticism-20844

 

[NorthDakota]

Hamas keeps playing stupid games, they are going to keep winning stupid prizes.

 

[Irish#1]

Looks like Joe wants to solve this problem with our money. Does the guy realize that just because you have checks left in the checkbook it doesn't mean you have money to spend?

the Biden administration is looking for ways to inch back toward one, including restoring funds cut under the Trump administration and addressing the steep economic disparity between Israel and the Palestinian territories.

The U.S. has restored $75 million in assistance that will be deployed in the coming months, officials said. The Biden administration is also looking to reopen the U.S. Consulate in Jerusalem, its de facto embassy to the Palestinians, but that reopening is expected to be months away.

Such a waste of time and money. This conflict has been going on forever and many a president has tried to fix it to no avail. This will never get resolved.

 

[ab2cmiller]

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Pentagon Developed Contingency Plan for War With Iran

In January, the U.S. and Israel conducted the largest joint military exercise in history.

theintercept.com

It might not be feeling inevitable, but it's getting close

 

[Sea Turtle]

China loses a nuclear powered submarine while Sabre rattling Taiwan.

Row erupts as nuclear sub 'crashes' near disputed waters

Reports suggest that everyone on board was killed, after the sub crashed in a hotly contested area.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Irish#1]

China loses a nuclear powered submarine while Sabre rattling Taiwan.

Row erupts as nuclear sub 'crashes' near disputed waters

Reports suggest that everyone on board was killed, after the sub crashed in a hotly contested area.

www.express.co.uk

There are denying. SURPRISE!