irishff1014
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YOu go with a 3-4 against navy aand you will lsoe almost everytime.
For the faithful.....
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YOu go with a 3-4 against navy aand you will lsoe almost everytime.
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I was especially entertained by the group of cadets chanting "RUDY, RUDY, RUDY" towards the end of the game. Gotta admit, it was sort of funny. Glad they enjoyed it. On another note, I did see Calabrese get pancaked by a smaller Navy player. It was not a chop block. It was a clean block to the chest. I did see several chop blocks though. I still like watching Irish football. The Navy loss is hard to take but that's college football.
One thing I liked was when the announcer (who screwed up at least 3 names the entire game) made reference to one of the o-linemen for the Irish. He told how the kid graduated from ND in 3.5 years and was attending law school. The only player in the FBS that was attending law school and playing.
I sometimes forget we don't have the luxury of recruiting kids "Just to play football". It makes it very special when they do succeed on the field because you just know most of them will succeed off the field.
I don't like watching them lose but hey, even the best get their *** whipped. I say give it some time and see. We eventually have to get it going. By the way, who thinks Meyer is happy? Florida was on top a few years ago now they can't beat Kentucky.
lookingdeadred
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lookingdeadred
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Exactly
Exactly
Your defenders need to know what their responsibility is and execute it.
Exactly
Your defenders need to know what their responsibility is and execute it.
kmoose
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Nope. I don't know if you noticed, but the FULLBACK for Navy just ran for 200+ yards on this team. Now where does a fullback carry the ball, in an option offense? It sure as he!! isn't off tackle... it's right UP THE MIDDLE!!!
Not good. We all know that. Coach Kelly will get it righted in the long term, however if we are looking for someone to hang this on; look no farther than Jack Swarbrick.
His decision to fire Charlie last year sent Jimmy and Golden out the door precipitously into the arms of the NFL. They belonged at Notre Dame trying to finish something they started and had they done so I'm convinced we'd be no worse than 7 and 1 right now. That's the past, however and Swarbrick is not part of our past, but he should be. AS much as I like Coach Kelly and his Spread attack, the current roster at the Junior/Senior years are built and recruited as Pro-style players. Especially Dane!
This should have been Charlie's last kick at the can, since it isn't I welcome Coach Kelly and his team and will, as always, stay amongst the faithful and watch as they slowly resurrect our football program.
Our inept A.D. should watch from another venue, like President of the NCAA or, whatever he's angling for next. The mess we're in is of his making.
Support the movement to end Jack Swarbrick's tenure at Notre Dame....and, GO IRISH!
His decision to fire Charlie last year sent Jimmy and Golden out the door precipitously into the arms of the NFL. They belonged at Notre Dame trying to finish something they started and had they done so I'm convinced we'd be no worse than 7 and 1 right now. That's the past, however and Swarbrick is not part of our past, but he should be. AS much as I like Coach Kelly and his Spread attack, the current roster at the Junior/Senior years are built and recruited as Pro-style players. Especially Dane!
This should have been Charlie's last kick at the can, since it isn't I welcome Coach Kelly and his team and will, as always, stay amongst the faithful and watch as they slowly resurrect our football program.
Our inept A.D. should watch from another venue, like President of the NCAA or, whatever he's angling for next. The mess we're in is of his making.
Support the movement to end Jack Swarbrick's tenure at Notre Dame....and, GO IRISH!
TerryTate
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Manti Te'o makes Butkus semi-finalist list
You can say the linebackers didn't play well. I would agree with that. But, to say we don't have a dominant inside linebacker is pretty ignorant.
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NeuteredDoomer
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They also ran belly, where FB starts up the middle, then follows outside cross block at the end. Pulling guard. So simple a play yet so deceptive.
iamtrulyblessed
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Bogtrotter07
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RUIrish has it dead on!
Switching defenses works like this: DON'T. Nobody was happy with Rick Minter, remember him? He was fired for "not having good enough defense," a 4-3? This was on his second go-round. Look up his stats. Any Irish fan that wouldn't give his left testicle for his defense today, is a woman? And I am sure that wonderful female Irish fan would give up something significant too?
Now here is the over-arching point. Do you know what defense that Rich Minter would run, specifically if he were back at ND? A 3-4, I have heard him say it. He lives in the Cincinnati suburban area, Google it.
Here is why. If you get the right DE, and by my count we have three maybe four of them, and good fast outside LB's you can do anything you want. Looking at this year's defense, with Ian Williams being gone, I will go out on a ledge and predict that we have only one or two returning starters as starters next year.
The other reason criticizing the 3-4 is part of the mindless entitlement side-speak, is that it allows you to disguise your pressure, hide blitzes etc; it is really an old five man front that lets you hide who is in coverage and who is coming.
Switching defenses works like this: DON'T. Nobody was happy with Rick Minter, remember him? He was fired for "not having good enough defense," a 4-3? This was on his second go-round. Look up his stats. Any Irish fan that wouldn't give his left testicle for his defense today, is a woman? And I am sure that wonderful female Irish fan would give up something significant too?
Now here is the over-arching point. Do you know what defense that Rich Minter would run, specifically if he were back at ND? A 3-4, I have heard him say it. He lives in the Cincinnati suburban area, Google it.
Here is why. If you get the right DE, and by my count we have three maybe four of them, and good fast outside LB's you can do anything you want. Looking at this year's defense, with Ian Williams being gone, I will go out on a ledge and predict that we have only one or two returning starters as starters next year.
The other reason criticizing the 3-4 is part of the mindless entitlement side-speak, is that it allows you to disguise your pressure, hide blitzes etc; it is really an old five man front that lets you hide who is in coverage and who is coming.
Jerry
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In the other thread about Navy's offense it's been explained that the "veer" style of triple option that Kelly said caught them off guard actually is basically off tackle. With the tackle blocking down.
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/56243-question-about-navy-offense.html
Old Man Mike
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For what it's worth, I agree that if a) you don't have an abundance of tackles that are both roadgraders and smaller imitations of King Kong [like SEC teams typically do, and a few others who can pick and choose whomever they want], AND b) you are preparing for 21st century football [which throws it all over the lot and uses short passes as imitation runs], you want to run a 3-4 [maybe even weirder stuff , too, like 3-3-5 or "pre-snap mill-around"]. This, in theory, maximizes your ability to get speed on the field and make offenses confused as to where everyones going to be---i.e. "reads" are tough on everyone from the QB, the blocking RB, the center....If I was Rick Minter, or Bob Diaco, and didn't think I'd have every DT monster I could see in High School, I'd stay with the 3-4 and other space age defenses too. [by the way, even one of the pro teams ran the "mill around" the other day and completely buffooned the opponent blocking reads]. And I'd hope that my fans would lower the screaming decibel levels a little while I got it installed with the proper personnel. Such a formative situation would be especially vulnerable to a team [us, at this moment] facing an extremely unconventional, polished, and tricky offense like Navy's.
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Bogtrotter07
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This is mind-numbing entitlement side-speak replete with circular logic:
I hear this kind of drivel all the time. Jack Swarbrick is the only non brain-dead admin Our Lady has seen in over a dozen years! Come on: With Kevin White and his predecessors, ND hired Bob Davies, Geo O’Leary, Ty Willingham, and Charlie Weiss! The only one that had a head coaching track record was a liar, and stupid enough to think he could get away with it. So your solution is to just let these idiots go on with their Three Stooges act?
If Charlie Weiss (not an idiot, but not a head coach either) were still in charge, there would be no defense, the players would have less motivation to play, wouldn’t be in as good of shape, and NOTRE DAME WOULD HAVE EVEN A WORSE DEFENSE IF THAT IS POSSIBLE. Who the **** would want Jon Tenuta back? You know, not only would he not recruit, he drove good prospects out of the door. Granted he wasn't as bad as Bob Davies who didn't think AJ Hawk had what it took, or Charlie's offensive guy who didn't think Dane Sanzenbacher could play at the division one level, but he was still really bad for ND.
Charlie should never have been given such a juicy contract after really not proving anything, and his new assistants should never have been given a one million dollar parachute, that’s right folks! Check out Jon Tenuta’s bank account, after one season, and what he did to us! Mark that down as Kevin White’s last act.
(I am so angry I could go out there and give them one good defensive play at the level of intensity they need.)
And if you think that Tate and Clauson’s staying or going had anything to do with Weiss’s firing, well then you are less intelligent than you sound. Tate had to go for the money, he said it there was nothing left for him to do but get hurt, and all Clauson was here for was the venue to reach the NFL on his terms. He saw the handwriting on the wall, with a new offensive line, (replacing three or four starters.) He would have been a moron to stay, and we definitely got his best play. Everyone was starting to figure him out. I like Jimmy, but he is slow and not really mobile. This year they would have killed him. (Maybe even worse that with Carolina, or his injury last year.)
I wish Jimmy the best, but he needs a really good offensive line, and he wouldn’t have had that with Weiss. Hell Weiss wouldn’t even give Martin a look, and he has graded out as our most consistent performer on the offensive line. Can you imagine the line without him this year? No decided schematic advantage there!
Above and beyond that, you are calling the man that has had arguably the greatest impact on college sports in the last ten years inept? Jack, with the help of Texas’s AD together changed the face of college football by not just preserving the current conferences, but made more room for other schools to declare their football independence, like BYU. Now Notre Dame can stay Notre Dame. Without their brilliant and courageous action, (they stood up to everybody, and that's a lot of money) there might not even be a Big East conference! Where would ND's great womens teams, and all other mens teams be without the Big East? In some stupid dictatiorial conference for all sports like the Big Ten. Right at this moment that would KILL Notre Dame Football!
You know what? We should revoke the fan-ship of people that express such ignorance. See my post earlier in this thread. That certain something that was a problem and RUIrish had a hard time naming it, I think is this mind-numbing idiocy!
I hear this kind of drivel all the time. Jack Swarbrick is the only non brain-dead admin Our Lady has seen in over a dozen years! Come on: With Kevin White and his predecessors, ND hired Bob Davies, Geo O’Leary, Ty Willingham, and Charlie Weiss! The only one that had a head coaching track record was a liar, and stupid enough to think he could get away with it. So your solution is to just let these idiots go on with their Three Stooges act?
If Charlie Weiss (not an idiot, but not a head coach either) were still in charge, there would be no defense, the players would have less motivation to play, wouldn’t be in as good of shape, and NOTRE DAME WOULD HAVE EVEN A WORSE DEFENSE IF THAT IS POSSIBLE. Who the **** would want Jon Tenuta back? You know, not only would he not recruit, he drove good prospects out of the door. Granted he wasn't as bad as Bob Davies who didn't think AJ Hawk had what it took, or Charlie's offensive guy who didn't think Dane Sanzenbacher could play at the division one level, but he was still really bad for ND.
Charlie should never have been given such a juicy contract after really not proving anything, and his new assistants should never have been given a one million dollar parachute, that’s right folks! Check out Jon Tenuta’s bank account, after one season, and what he did to us! Mark that down as Kevin White’s last act.
(I am so angry I could go out there and give them one good defensive play at the level of intensity they need.)
And if you think that Tate and Clauson’s staying or going had anything to do with Weiss’s firing, well then you are less intelligent than you sound. Tate had to go for the money, he said it there was nothing left for him to do but get hurt, and all Clauson was here for was the venue to reach the NFL on his terms. He saw the handwriting on the wall, with a new offensive line, (replacing three or four starters.) He would have been a moron to stay, and we definitely got his best play. Everyone was starting to figure him out. I like Jimmy, but he is slow and not really mobile. This year they would have killed him. (Maybe even worse that with Carolina, or his injury last year.)
I wish Jimmy the best, but he needs a really good offensive line, and he wouldn’t have had that with Weiss. Hell Weiss wouldn’t even give Martin a look, and he has graded out as our most consistent performer on the offensive line. Can you imagine the line without him this year? No decided schematic advantage there!
Above and beyond that, you are calling the man that has had arguably the greatest impact on college sports in the last ten years inept? Jack, with the help of Texas’s AD together changed the face of college football by not just preserving the current conferences, but made more room for other schools to declare their football independence, like BYU. Now Notre Dame can stay Notre Dame. Without their brilliant and courageous action, (they stood up to everybody, and that's a lot of money) there might not even be a Big East conference! Where would ND's great womens teams, and all other mens teams be without the Big East? In some stupid dictatiorial conference for all sports like the Big Ten. Right at this moment that would KILL Notre Dame Football!
You know what? We should revoke the fan-ship of people that express such ignorance. See my post earlier in this thread. That certain something that was a problem and RUIrish had a hard time naming it, I think is this mind-numbing idiocy!
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kmoose
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I don't need to read another forum. I watched the game, and saw it with my own eyes!! It was fullback right up the center's a$$ for 15 yards, fullback through the center-guard gap for 12 yards, fullback right up the guard's a$$ for 17 yards. It was pathetic.
Old Man Mike
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To support one particular thing that Trotter is talking about: Minter said earlier this year that the head coach of the previous administration would not let him do certain things that he believed were in the best interests of the defense and he resented that, feeling as he said, that he thought he knew a bit about coaching defense too. Then Minter said that Kelly is not like that and will not interfere with Diaco's attempts to coordinate the defense, and stick with the offensive side. He was very much in support of Kelly as a head coach, and, as an aside, still showed that he felt fondness for ND. That last thing is something that we should meditate a bit upon too when we are screaming about football and how horrible "life" is.
kmoose
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Look Dude, you and HCTI need get off of the "Manti Teo Hero Worship" ledge. The kid is a solid player, and one of the 2 or 3 best players on this defense. But this defense is pretty medoicre, so that's not indicative of any kind of dominance. He's Ron Powlus, so far. For those of you who were older than, say, 13 or 14, when Powlus was playing, you'll remember that Powlus was actually a decent college QB. But that's all he ever was; decent. He never lived up to hype he got, coming out of High School. For that reason, many people think he was a bust. But he wasn't a bust, he just never achieved anything more than average results. I'm not saying that Teo can't live up to the hype better than Powlus did. In fact, Teo is probably headed for a MUCH better legacy than Powlus. But quit looking at Teo as a prized recruit who shows incredible promise, and look at what he is right now. Right now, he's nothing more than a solid ILB. He's on the Butkus list because he has a ton of tackles. The problem is: a great many of those tackles are 4-5-6 yards downfield. Calabrese makes more plays at the Line of Scrimmage than Teo does, right now. I see Teo making 2 or 3 plays a game, at or behind the Line of Scrimmage. If you think about how many plays this defense has seen, this season, making 2 or 3 plays at or behind the LOS, per game, is nothing even close to being dominant. I'm not bashing Teo, or saying that he is bad. I'm just not buying into the Hero Worship crap, just because he leads the team in tackles.
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Bogtrotter07
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Once again, comparisons are tough. Powlus had that shoulder injury Freshman year and never recovered (A) and (B) he was a quarterback who could never look off his receiver. JoPa called him one of the best athletes he had ever seen, and said as a HS senior, he was ready for the NFL. Now back to Manti. You know SC faithful consider Pete Carol loosing Manti as his biggest failure as a coach at SC? You know that Manti is in the top ten as far as tackles in college football? You remember that Manti is a sophmore? I think he is the best ND has to offer. Who is better. And I will go on a ledge and state that he may be the only starter this year that is back as a starter next year.
ndcoltsfan2010
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I don't think anyone is putting Te'o in a superman elite status. The bottom line is that he is a great LB and once we get some of the other parts of the D playing better we will be better as a defensive unit and the results will show. It takes all 11 players taking care of business to have a great defense. Te'o is just one part of that 11 man team. I for one am pretty pleased with Manti's overall performance. You are right, alot of tackles are after yardage gained and I would love to see some more stuffs at the line of scrimmage and a few more tackles for loss, but he is a good ILB and I am glad he is on our defense. Food for thought here....., Where would our defense be without Manti right now? Would we be a better defense without him? I personally dont think so.
irishff1014
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I agree he helps keep this defense somewhat together. Not to mention i think he will be a great leader for this defense next year.
Old Man Mike
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Generally agree Trotter, but in the normal development that happens year-to-year with DBs, I believe that most of them will be starting and terrifically effective if any pass rush manifests itself. We also have linebackers who are on the edge of getting the message/instincts. I'm not giving up on Calabreese nor Fleming just yet. Would like to see more Shembo though, I'll admit. If the "kids" like Lynch and Tuitt and Schwenke [if he stays] are ready, then by all means lets get the play-busters in there. Manti however IS a stud, and if the rest of the defense works, will overwhelmingly prove it even to the doubters. My hugely clairvoyant vision....
irishff1014
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I know that we will have a young defense next yr that can be good or bad.
ndcoltsfan2010
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You just hit the nail on the head my friend...., we get some good play from the D-line with the likes of Tuitt, Lynch, Schwenke and others, that will help us out immensely. There are so many needs for improvement in many areas of the defense. Once we get some of these areas fixed and as players develop and learn, and we get some gang buster type players in there, things will look great on the defensive front. I am going to be optimistic in saying that we will have a stellar defense in the next year or two.
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Bogtrotter07
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Here is what I am saying guys: Williams is out of eligibility. Gray probably will be drafted. I see Harrison Smith as coming back for a fifth year. Slaughter has too much of a lingering injury problem, so I see him as questionable. Most of our OLB are gone or too slow. That leaves Calabrese, Motta, Johnson and Lewis-Moore. Calabrese will probably stay in the rotation, but I see guys like Shembo or Spond overtaking him. Motta really has to develop as a safety, in zone coverage especially. So I could see new guys simply outplaying Calabrese, Motta, and the two current starting defensive ends. The wonderful thing is there will be competition, which is what we need! Think about it; and people have been figuring between 6 and 8 fifth years. I bet it is 1 to 3.
kmoose
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I've been saying that, all along. But my point is that he is not DOMINANT. Dominant LBs don't allow an opposing fullback (an undersized opponent, at that) to rush for 200+ yards, almost entirely gained right through that LBs "back yard" (right up the middle of the defense).
irishff1014
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Gray needs to be gone he is average at best. I Don't know if having harrison back will help us he isn't that good either. I think good young players competing for playing time will be just what the Doctor ordered.
kmoose
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So you want Gray gone? Who is going to take his place? Either the guy behind him is not as good as him, or Kelly and his coaches are complete morons for having a starter in there who is not as good as his backup. So which is it, for you: Is Gray the best option, and you want to bench him, or are Kelly and his staff a bunch of idiots?