Feminism

ryno 24

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Do you honestly think there's a single kid in a single high school anywhere in this country who doesn't know where babies come from.

A great philosopher once said "of course they're gonna know what intercourse is by the time they hit fourth grade, they've got the Discover Channel don't they?"

First, great Eminem reference. Second, I was speaking in the sense of contraception. Many public schools do not teach about condoms or other forms. While I think that Catholic and other private schools should continue to educate as far as their faith decides public schools should be much more proactive.
 

pkt77242

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Do you honestly think there's a single kid in a single high school anywhere in this country who doesn't know where babies come from.

A great philosopher once said "of course they're gonna know what intercourse is by the time they hit fourth grade, they've got the Discover Channel don't they?"

LOL. It isn't about knowing where babies come from, it is about the details that are important to prevent pregnancy. That is a topic that many teens (and adults) are ignorant about. Things such as ovulation, how birth control works, etc. and things such as STDs.
 

kmoose

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Also, the point of viability is not black and white. It is a completely arbitrary determination. It is ridiculous to say that a fetus is viable and should be protected at Day 150 and have no rights on Day 149.

A very similar argument could be made for "a living thing". Why does a human "living thing" get protection, but a rabbit or deer "living thing" does not? Isn't that also an arbitrary determination?
 

wizards8507

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These numbers show many women still have a lot to learn about eggs and sperm.

48.3%

The percentage of women surveyed who thought that having sex more than once per day would increase the chances of becoming pregnant, though research doesn't support this idea. The study points out that a man's sperm count actually decreases if he ejaculates more than once a day.

37.4%

The percentage of those surveyed who thought that certain sexual positions would make them more likely to conceive. Research doesn't support that either. Regardless of the position, the study says, sperm reach the cervix within minutes.

9.2%

The percentage of women who knew that to conceive, intercourse needs to happen before - not after - ovulation. The study notes that a woman's "fertile window" is the six days leading up to and including the day of ovulation, and the chances of conceiving with intercourse after ovulation are slim.

65%

The percentage of the surveyed women who either already had children or were pregnant at the time of the survey. Still, two-thirds of them answered the ovulation question incorrectly. Thus, the researchers say, many women get pregnant despite misunderstanding ovulation.
Those are moronic questions. You don't need to know the timing of ovulation versus fertilization to know that "penis in vagina means you CAN get pregnant." Being ignorant of the nuts and bolts doesn't having anything to do with knowing "sex makes babies."
 

ulukinatme

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This thread was so much cooler when we were poking fun at over the top femi-nazi views...
 

pkt77242

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Those are moronic questions. You don't need to know the timing of ovulation versus fertilization to know that "penis in vagina means you CAN get pregnant." Being ignorant of the nuts and bolts doesn't having anything to do with knowing "sex makes babies."

Seriously? It isn't just that sex makes babies, it is about preventing unwanted pregnancies. Preventing unwanted pregnancies leads to a reduction in abortion. Just knowing that you can get pregnant from sex isn't enough. Talk about shitty sex education.
 

wizards8507

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Seriously? It isn't just that sex makes babies, it is about preventing unwanted pregnancies. Preventing unwanted pregnancies leads to a reduction in abortion. Just knowing that you can get pregnant from sex isn't enough. Talk about shitty sex education.
Tell me how being fully informed about any of those points you listed is going to make unwanted pregnancy less likely?

Whether you have sex once a day or ten times a day isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Whether you have sex in one position or another isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Whether you know that intercourse needs to happen before ovulation isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies (since women aren't going to know when they're ovulating... it's nearly impossible to track even for diligent natural family planners).
 

tussin

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A very similar argument could be made for "a living thing". Why does a human "living thing" get protection, but a rabbit or deer "living thing" does not? Isn't that also an arbitrary determination?

"All life is sacred. Human life is especially so. Protecting it is of utmost importance to God. He takes this so seriously and personally because He made humanity to reflect Him. We are His earthly representatives, made in His image. To murder another person is to mount an attack on the One who created him."
 

woolybug25

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Tell me how being fully informed about any of those points you listed is going to make unwanted pregnancy less likely?

Whether you have sex once a day or ten times a day isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Whether you have sex in one position or another isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Whether you know that intercourse needs to happen before ovulation isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies (since women aren't going to know when they're ovulating... it's nearly impossible to track even for diligent natural family planners).

What are you talking about? Having sex more often absolutely increases your likelihood of pregnancy.

And tracking peak ovulation requires a test, but general knowledge of when a women should be ovulating is very simple. In a 28 day cycle, they should ovulate between day 12-14. It can be off by a couple days, but if you don't think the knowledge of knowing what part of the month it happens doesn't decrease likelihood of unwanted pregnancy, then go stick your head back in the sand.
 

pkt77242

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Tell me how being fully informed about any of those points you listed is going to make unwanted pregnancy less likely?

Whether you have sex once a day or ten times a day isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

1. Whether you have sex in one position or another isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

2.Whether you know that intercourse needs to happen before ovulation isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies (since women aren't going to know when they're ovulating... it's nearly impossible to track even for diligent natural family planners).

1.Yes it does. People believe that you can't get pregnant (or are significantly less likely to get pregnant) in certain positions. Dispelling that rumor will help. For example some people think that you are unlikely to get pregnant if the women is on top (or that a women can't get pregnant while she is on top).

2.It won't fully eliminate but it will help. Helping women to know their cycle is important, but you are right that it won't help everyone.

Also I would point out that it will definitely help when someone gets older and wants to get pregnant.

Also here is a great one on Condoms and how little people know about using them.
Safety First: 14 Common Condom Use Errors | Contraception & Birth Control | STDs & Pregnancy

1. Late application: Between 17 percent and 51.1 percent of people reported putting a condom on after intercourse has already begun. Other studies found that late application happens in 1.5 percent to 24.8 percent of sexual encounters.

2. Early removal: Between 13.6 percent and 44.7 percent of individuals in the studies had taken a condom off before intercourse was over. Other studies found that early removal happens in between 1.4 percent and 26.9 percent of sexual encounters.

3. Unrolling a condom before putting it on: Between 2.1 percent and 25.3 percent of people reported completely unrolling a condom before putting it on.

4. No space at the tip: Failing to leave a reservoir for semen was reported by between 24.3 percent and 45.7 percent of respondents, depending on the study.

5. Failing to remove air: Almost half (48.1 percent) of women and 41.6 percent of men reported sexual encounters in which air wasn't squeezed from the tip of the condom.

6. Inside-out condoms: Between 4 percent and 30.4 percent of people reported rolling on a condom inside out and then flipping it the other way around, potentially exposing their partner to bodily fluids.

7. Failing to unroll all the way: 11.2 percent of women and 8.8 percent of men had started intercourse before a condom was unrolled all the way.

8. Exposure to sharp objects: Between 2.1 percent and 11.2 percent of people had opened condom packets with sharp objects or otherwise exposed the latex to tearing.

9. Not checking for damage: Meanwhile, 82.7 percent of women and 74.5 percent of men failed to check condoms for damage before use.

10. No lubrication: Between 16 percent and 25.8 percent of participants had used condoms without lubrication, increasing the risk of a break.

11. Wrong lubrication: In about 4.1 percent of sexual events, people used oil-based lubrications with latex, which can degrade the condom. About 3.2 percent of women and 4.7 percent of men reported this error.

12. Incorrect withdrawal: Failing to promptly and properly withdraw after ejaculation was a common mistake, occurring in up to 57 percent of encounters in one study. About 31 percent of men and 27 percent of women reported this error.

13. Condom reuse: Between 1.4 percent and 3.3 percent of study respondents had re-used a condom at least twice during a sexual encounter.

14. Incorrect storage: Between 3.3 percent and 19.1 percent of people in the studies had stored condoms in conditions outside of the recommendations on the package.

While perfect condom use has a 98 percent success rate at preventing pregnancy, errors can increase the risk of breakage, slippage or other condom failure. Here are the rates for those problems:

Breakage: In various studies, between 0.8 percent and 40.7 percent of participants reported the experience of a broken condom. In some studies, the rates of sex with a broken condom were as high as 32.8 percent.

Slippage: Between 13.1 percent and 19.3 percent of participants reported condom slippage.

Leakage: Condoms leaked in between 0.4 percent and 6.5 percent of sexual encounters studied, with 7.6 percent of men and 12.5 percent of women reporting an experience with a leaky condom.

Edit: This study was more about use then knowledge, but it is pretty safe to assume that many of the people didn't know it was bad otherwise they wouldn't have done it.
 
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ulukinatme

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Once this bus took the wrong turn, you knew it would be difficult to get it back on the right path.

I'm surprised we don't we already have a thread for abortions.

You're wrong, THIS is the abortions thread. This whole thread past page 1 is an abortion, and I'm aborting it.
 

GATTACA!

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You would be wrong.
Yale study shows ignorance about conception - SFGate



Many people know jack shit when it comes to getting pregnant.

Also from a different study


When it comes to condoms, yes some people can't afford them, and while we are on the topic, condoms as birth control are really far down the list of effective methods as you have to actively use it, you have to put it on correctly (and if you didn't have good sex ed you might not do that), there are things you can't use with it, etc.).

You think that abortion is a great evil, but when studies show that these things will significantly lower it you don't want to do it. How does that make sense?

You know what else would greatly reduce abortions? Making them illegal.
 

pkt77242

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You know what else would greatly reduce abortions? Making them illegal.

Not necessarily.

There was an interesting though somewhat flawed study (any time you try to study how often an illegal things happens it is rather flawed) that showed that countries with abortion being illegal still had pretty high rates.

Here is a story from the NYT about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html
 

GATTACA!

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Are you sure about that?

Abortion more common where it's illegal: Where are rates highest? - CBS News

Like, obviously there are some causation/correlation issues with the study, but the evidence that criminalizing abortions makes them less common seems weak at best.

Not necessarily.

There was an interesting though somewhat flawed study (any time you try to study how often an illegal things happens it is rather flawed) that showed that countries with abortion being illegal still had pretty high rates.

Here is a story from the NYT about it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html

I think you two are on to something here. Why don't we make murder and theft legal too!
 

pkt77242

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I think you two are on to something here. Why don't we make murder and theft legal too!

You are right, you are soooo brilliant. :rotflmao:

Making something illegal doesn't stop people from doing it. People speed every day and it is illegal. Many people take drugs even though it is illegal. You would have to put in place a significant punishment coupled with catching many people and punishing them to have a chance at stopping it. Are you prepared to send someone to prison for 20 years for having an abortion?
 
C

Cackalacky

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Tell me how being fully informed about any of those points you listed is going to make unwanted pregnancy less likely?

Whether you have sex once a day or ten times a day isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Whether you have sex in one position or another isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Whether you know that intercourse needs to happen before ovulation isn't going to reduce unwanted pregnancies (since women aren't going to know when they're ovulating... it's nearly impossible to track even for diligent natural family planners).

I have stayed away from this thread for many many reasons but I have to say.... this post is absolutely shocking. The app stores are full of apps that track women's cycles. They work exceptionally well, even giving the woman a low risk or high risk time frame when ovulation is most likely to occur down to the day. It's REAALLLY easy to keep track of.

Multiple sexual events definitely increase your chances of conceiving as long as the sperm count is consistent. It's better to do it over multiple days but multiple times per day is more effective. Doctors recommend having sex as much as possible when pregnancies are desired. But I don't think you are REALLY saying that conception is equally likely to happen having sex one time versus ten times in one day????????

Being fully informed of these facts can significantly reduce the chances of conception. Teaching women to track their cycles... knowing that time spent with multiple women can alter individual cycles, knowing when you are in a high risk part of the cycle... I mean it's ridiculous to say that info can't help stop unwanted pregnancies.
 

kmoose

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"All life is sacred. Human life is especially so. Protecting it is of utmost importance to God. He takes this so seriously and personally because He made humanity to reflect Him. We are His earthly representatives, made in His image. To murder another person is to mount an attack on the One who created him."

And yet, he wiped out everyone but Noah and his family....
 

GATTACA!

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You are right, you are soooo brilliant. :rotflmao:

Making something illegal doesn't stop people from doing it. People speed every day and it is illegal. Many people take drugs even though it is illegal. You would have to put in place a significant punishment coupled with catching many people and punishing them to have a chance at stopping it. Are you prepared to send someone to prison for 20 years for having an abortion?

I'm brilliant when you're the one that need italics to spot sarcasm....

You're right making something illegal does not make people stop doing it in all circumstances. Your analogy is purposefully dumb, you know it's much harder to break the law and have an abortion than it is to exceed the speed limit.

I wouldn't be looking to put individuals in jail for having abortions. I would go after healthcare facilities that circumvent the law. At a bare minimum I would stop giving tax dollars to any organization that performs abortions, regardless of whether abortions are 25% or 0.25% of their annual budget.
 

pkt77242

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I'm brilliant when you're the one that need italics to spot sarcasm....

You're right making something illegal does not make people stop doing it in all circumstances. Your analogy is purposefully dumb, you know it's much harder to break the law and have an abortion than it is to exceed the speed limit.

I wouldn't be looking to put individuals in jail for having abortions. I would go after healthcare facilities that circumvent the law. At a bare minimum I would stop giving tax dollars to any organization that performs abortions, regardless of whether abortions are 25% or 0.25% of their annual budget.

Not really. See the thing is that abortions didn't drastically increase after Roe vs. Wade, only legal abortions drastically increased. Estimates have run from 200K to 1.2M for pre Roe vs. Wade abortions per year. One study in N.C. in the late 60's and then generalized out to the U.S. came up with about 800K. Considering how much the population has grown during the last 50 years, the U.S. isn't having significantly more abortions now than then. Abortion has been around for a long time both during times when it was illegal and when it was legal (and during different periods of time the Catholic Church was ok with it before quickening). It will be around whether it is legal or illegal.

Also I like how you ignore the part about drugs. Isn't that a pretty spot on analogy?
 

GATTACA!

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Also I like how you ignore the part about drugs. Isn't that a pretty spot on analogy?

I ignored it because in my mind it's basically the same situation as the speeding analogy. I guess you could argue that it slightly more relevant because you need, in most cases someone else's assistance to take drugs. You can speed all by yourself.

They are all similar in that there are clear reasons why people choose to do each thing, and why each is illegal/should be illegal.

People speed to get to their destination quicker. It's illegal because you put others in danger.

People do drugs to escape their reality/ get high/ alleviate pain. It's illegal because you can put others at risk due to erratic behavior and because in many cases people stop being a functioning member of society.

People have abortions because they want to escape the consequences of their actions. They don't want to have to raise a child or feel that they don't have sufficient means to properly raise the child. IMO it should be illegal because having an abortion is equivalent to killing another human. The events that would lead to the creation of one specific individual have already begun. Each fetus that is terminated has a unique grouping of DNA will never be expressed again. In my mind it is like a ball rolling down a hill, as soon as the egg is fertilized it will without intervention become a person.

If you don't want a ticket don't speed. If you don't want to go to jail or be fined, dont do drugs. If you don't want a child don't have unprotected sex.
 

IrishInFl

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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LjkTtN68SHA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

wizards8507

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That raises some curiosity.
That's the way it is on college campuses now.

May I kiss you? Yes.

May I unbutton your pants? Yes.

May I unhook your bra? Yes.

...and on and on and on. It's laughable that you can find out you "raped" somebody after the fact.
 

Irish#1

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That's the way it is on college campuses now.

May I kiss you? Yes.

May I unbutton your pants? Yes.

May I unhook your bra? Yes.

...and on and on and on. It's laughable that you can find out you "raped" somebody after the fact.

LOL, I was thinking more along the lines of missionary, doggie style, going down south, etc.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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That's the way it is on college campuses now.

May I kiss you? Yes.

May I unbutton your pants? Yes.

May I unhook your bra? Yes.

...and on and on and on. It's laughable that you can find out you "raped" somebody after the fact.
Ever heard of alcohol?

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