Dear St. Joe County Police, sorry for partying

military_irish

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From the video only, all i can see is the officers telling them to move to where ever. They "resisted" by not moving at all and trying to act tough for no reason. The cop told them to move a few times and he didn't budge so he gave him a shove, hardly anything dangerous and the kid still "resisted" by not moving. so he was rightly arrested.

That is what I got from the video alone, i wasn't there so I can't say this is exactly what happened.
 

IrishLax

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If that's the case he'll get a nice boot out the door... and I made it clear that my stancee is more general... mabe it's just my experince...

to be totally clear, believe me I'm no fan of cops... I tell my friends so... I believe the average cop is a glorified tax collector these days... but I'm even less of a fan of these people that break the law or even verbally or physically attack cops while comitting a crime then cry brutality when then get taken down during an arrest... it's just a picture of the larger entitlement problem this country seems to have... but again, each case is different and we'll see what happens in this one.

Word.
 

IrishinSyria

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Well, the kid definitely should have walked away instead of trying to save the tailgate.

And what's wrong with tax collectors?
 

Irish To The Core

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Life is simple, cop stays move, you move. Yay crisis avoided.

Yes, but...

There is this thing called democracy. And in a democracy authority is limited by something called a constitution. And obediently doing whatever "authorities" tell you is not only dangerous to a democracy (see Thoreau: Civil Disobedience) but is precisely what the founding fathers of the United States stood up against to begin with. Sorry for the soapbox but if we all do what we are told by "authorities" without questioning, where is our democracy?

HOWEVER: a really good rule of thumb is this: Always be polite to policemen if you are breaking a law, unless you want to go to jail in a demonstration of civil disobedience. (I am assuming the young red haired fellow has no such agenda)
 
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timm3117

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Yes, but...

There is this thing called democracy. And in a democracy authority is limited by something called a constitution. And obediently doing whatever "authorities" tell you is not only dangerous to a democracy (see Thoreau: On Civil Disobedience) but is precisely what the founding fathers of the United States stood up against to begin with. Sorry for the soapbox but if we all do what we are told by "authorities" without questioning, where is our democracy?

HOWEVER: a really good rule of thumb is this: Always be polite to policemen if you are breaking a law, unless you want to go to jail in a demonstration of civil disobedience. (I am assuming the young red haired fellow has no such agenda)

I was making a general point! Cops don't normally go around asking you to move on if your not doing anything wrong. Its not like the kid was on his own private property, when in public you must follow the rules. The kid didn't and the cop reacted (or overreacted).
 
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and sorry there is no way in hell... at all... that the police force out there is just made up of a bunch of dictatorial cops who like to beatup on innocent college kids. I'm sure there are two sides to what is going on if this is a recurring thing.

In Ohio, the cops in Tiffin are rather notorious for being "dictatorial cops who like to beat up on innocent college kids." Here at Ohio State, the local police are great, it's the state troopers, sheriffs, DEA that snoop by all of the time looking for easy alcohol charges and cash flow.

I've had experiences with cops in urban settings, where they don't care about small things and have too many murders around to care about partying. Then I've had cops in small college cities who bust college parties like it was their spoken orders from God. Sorta disgusting in my opinion.

**** the police.
 

timm3117

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Just watch the show Campus Police, and you will understand why cops want to beat college students. Everytime I watch it I want to, and I'm not a cop.
 

Irish To The Core

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Agreed timm3117. The kids were being belligerent smart asses and challenging the cops...not the smartest thing to do if you want to watch the football game. But, I remember my first beer too...
 

NankerPhelge

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Can only go by my own experience, but I think there has been a real noticeable tightening of the screws over the past few years. I, like many others above, have little sympathy for those who are less than disrespectful to law enforcement, and if you are any less than respectful and co-operative when confronted, then I guess you bear the consequences for what you get. But what I have seen is just an ever-increasing trend for the cops to confront anybody who looks like they're having a good time, at least around here. It used to be if the kids around the game were drinking and having a good time, there were never any real hassles unless you were really out of control, or violent towards someone else. Here's an example.

Don't know if anyone else here is old enough to remember, but in the late 70's and early 80's, the "Five Points" was at the corner of South Bend Ave. and Eddy St. There were bars on every corner--Bridgett McGuire's, Corby's (the old Corby's), Nicki's, and The Commons. On Saturday nights of home games, they used to just close the streets because the whole area would be filled with partying students, both inside and outside of the bars. Anyway, some guy decided to set up a "Great American Hot Dog Stand" in the parking lot outside Nicki's. A few buddies and I were walking through the crowds on our way to Bridgett's (after drinking and whatever else we were doing all day) and there was a police officer standing next to the hot dog stand munching on a dog and surveying the scene. In my inebriated state, I just thought that was funny and I started yelling from across the street "Here I stand...At the hot dog stand...With my hot dog in my hand!!!!!" We all just thought that was the most hilarious thing we had ever heard, so I just kept yelling it louder and louder as we made our way through the crowd, while we were laughing uproariously. Next thing I knew, both of my arms were in the grasp of two other police officers who had come from nowhere out of the crowd. They said something like "you guys think that's funny, huh?" I, of course,answered "Well, yeah, kind of." So, they asked us how much we had had to drink and where we were going and they told us, no we were not going to Bridgetts, we were going home, and they better not see us out anymore that night. We politely agreed, and then snuck through the crowd and went into the back door at Bridgetts to drink the rest of the night away. No further problems. I get the feeling from what I have read, though, that if anything even close to that happened today, we would have probably just been arrested and that would have been the end of it.

My point is, I guess, that this area (not just South Bend) seems to have gotten much more uptight as concerns kids drinking and having a good time than it used to be. And I do think it is geo-centric to an extent. You know, if you go down to Savannah, Georgia sometime the whole of River Street is lined with bars. Every bar has a stack of plastic cups sitting out, because it is perfectly legal, if you get tired of sitting in one place, you can take your drink with you and walk around the sidewalks with it. And that is about what it amounts too, people walking around, drinking, and having a good time. Been there several times, and seen some pretty lit people, but so long as they aren't giving anybody else a hard time, the cops don't bother them. I've seen two episodes of COPS where the Savannah police were called because someone complained about someone being too drunk, and both times they just talked to them and told them to cool it and let them go on their merry way. As opposed to other areas of the country (like increasingly here, it seems) where if the police think you have been drinking, they'll look for any excuse to make that arrest.

Just my observations, for what they are worth.
 
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phgreek

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OKAY...assume the cops were sent with instructions...they attempted to carry those out...then a series of stupid judgements and conduct followed.

1) Granted, I know many cops who have the self awareness and self assurance to calmly manage the situation...this cop clearly is not a good cop...BTW I watched cops clear out a college party about a freakin hundred times...hauled off underagers in vans...wrote citations...but not ever an incident like this. And I never heard them raise their voice, yet you knew they were in command. Saw the same cops take down a guy at a bar...guy got physical, cop 1 put him on the deck, cop 2 put a pepper spray canister up his nose and fired it...dude cried like a little girl...and went and sat in the squad car without further incident. Point is, as a cop, you don't have to be a pushover, but losing your composure over words says to me that you are a garbage cop. Folks who saw this and were angered should be...that guy needs to see DEA backup duty or something...he is not wired to be dealing with kids.

2) From Red's perspective, You have to be a complete dumb *** to assume the cop has ANY input or judgement here...as I said, he was sent with marching orders...there is no negotiation here. So why even engage...21 and drunk apparently = dumb ***. In a Strange Darwinian sort of way Red deserved to get hauled off...hope it left a stadium seat for someone with a bigger brain...right next to Red's girlfriend....maybe in the future, Red will drink less, think with his member, and save himslef some time in the clink.
 

Stoic

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Rack Em

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Agreed timm3117. The kids were being belligerent smart asses and challenging the cops...not the smartest thing to do if you want to watch the football game. But, I remember my first beer too...

Where in the video were they being belligerent? I didn't see anything that warranted a police officer shoving a student and then arresting him.

We're they out of line? Yes. But why was it necessary to act that way? I don't feel there's a good answer to that question.

These kind of incidents seem to be happening more often in South Bend. From the students' standpoint it's starting to get a little ridiculous.
 

IrishinSyria

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Point is, as a cop, you don't have to be a pushover, but losing your composure over words says to me that you are a garbage cop.

Ya know what else tells me this guy is a garbage cop? His waste. Clearly, not someone who sees any real trouble. This was his moment to show off that badge and by god he wasn't going to tolerate anyone questioning his authoritah.

We're they out of line? Yes.

Why even give in on that? What were they doing? Tailgating. Then the kid asked the cop a question. These are the rules for tailgating on ND's website

Notre Dame has one of the best tailgating atmospheres in college football, but tailgating rules are strictly enforced on campus. Here are the parking lot rules -

* Use one space per car, use aisles for tailgate parties instead of using additional parking spaces.
* Tailgate parties are not permitted during the game.
* Kegs are not permitted in the parking lots.
* Abuse of the rights of others as a result of the use of intoxicating beverages will not be tolerated in the parking lots or on any University grounds.
* Large parties and the use of tents is not permitted on campus, including the parking lots.
* Grills using CHARCOAL are prohibited from use on University property. Numerous fires and subsequent property damage have resulted from improper disposal of the charcoal. The maximum propane gas cylinder size allowed will be 20 pounds.
* All vehicles must be removed from the parking lots within three hours of the conclusion of the game.

They were all 21 (as far as the cop knew) and they were on University property, so unless they were engaged in "abuse of the rights of others" or had a charcoal grill, I see no justification for the confrontation in the first place. So no, they weren't "out of line" don't concede a point just to sound reasonable.
 
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Lucky they weren't in Boston I still have a scar from calling a cop dude and 10 minutes kissing up is better than 4 - 6 hours in jail . He's lucky when I was his age I was in Army military police are the biggest dicks on the planet !!!!!
 

GEORGIA DOMER

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just had to

just had to

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aubeirish

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I don't know. There are cops that have power trips. It happened to some of my friends this summer. They were only trying to help a guy that was lying down on the floor of the bar. The guy was bleeding all over the place and my friends are med students, so it was only natural for them to help the guy. They were trying to stitch his wound when the police showed up and started yelling at them, swearing, and telling them to get the heck out of there. One of my friends then said that they were med students and that the guy really needed help right now (he was unconscious). The cops yelled some more at them, so one of my friend said. Listen, i'm going to help this guy either you like it or not. Then he said: you better stop your little power trip. The cops flipped and handcuffed him dragged him to the car. The other guys followed him outside, and one of them was pissed and punched on a street sign. The cops immediately handcuffed him as well. They dragged the both of them in a small street. They made them get most of their clothes off. They called some other police cars, and all the officers started calling them names like fagots, and humiliating them. Then they left them there. There are tons of stories like this one. This one is a 100% true. I witnessed.

Anyway, I live in a fairly calm and safe city. There is not much crime going on. I guess my point is that cops in calm and safe areas are not doing much with danger, therefore, some of them get power trips sometimes. Big city cops are a little different. Most of them know better, they are in confrontations every day.
 

Jerry

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Was he/she over 21? Either way that is legally drunk, but less than I will be in a few hours.

This is what I always have issue with. Isn't blowing over .08 legally drunk to drive? And not just legally drunk? I hear people say this all the time. But if everybody over .08 is breaking the law then couldn't you arrest like 40% of people at every college football tailgate? I'm totally fine with throwing a belligerent person in the "drunk tank" for the night. But when you see a person who can't walk or talk their blood alcohol is probably over .20. If law enforcement wants to randomly arrest people for walking around drunk they should come up with a different BAC level.
 

edgesofsanity

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This is what I always have issue with. Isn't blowing over .08 legally drunk to drive? And not just legally drunk? I hear people say this all the time. But if everybody over .08 is breaking the law then couldn't you arrest like 40% of people at every college football tailgate? I'm totally fine with throwing a belligerent person in the "drunk tank" for the night. But when you see a person who can't walk or talk their blood alcohol is probably over .20. If law enforcement wants to randomly arrest people for walking around drunk they should come up with a different BAC level.

Actually, I don't believe there is a set BAC where you are legally drunk. The police pretty much can decide based on the circumstances. From the greatest of reference sites:

In Indiana, public intoxication is a class B misdemeanor, punishable with up to 180 days in jail, and a $1000 dollar fine. (See Indiana Code 35-50-3) The assessment of public intoxication is at the discretion of the arresting officer, who has the option, in addition to the citation, of detaining the individual in jail, or transporting the individual to his or her home or to the home of a responsible caretaker. (See IC 7.1-5-1-3, 12-23-15).
 
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