Dayne vs Kelly

tommyIRISH23

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First of all, I doubt Crist even knows how he feels about the yelling. Or rather, if it did bother him he wouldn't admit it to himself, never mind ISD (so, for the record, I agree with you.)

I do think Neutered is onto something here. Yelling is a part of coaching, I wouldn't argue with that. But after every...single...series... Kelly is red in the face and screaming at Dayne. You shut it down after a while, you stop listening. There's just no other way to deal with it.

Finally, as for Dayne's "demeanor," I'd much rather have a calm and cool QB than one who could double as a cheerleader (see: Tate Forcier vs Iowa). Not too many ups, not too many downs. Also, people are overreacting big time. His play hasn't been "junior year jimmy" good, but it really hasn't been that bad either.



Eh. I prefer the Tom Brady type. You can see every emotion the man has on the field, but off the field, he is cool as a cucumber. Dayne may also not be comfortable yet in his leadership position, especially being the QB at ND.

He's still young, and still has time to grow. But there are some things of concern about him. Even when Jimmy struggled, he always kept his confidence.

With regards to coaching, and the yelling or not yelling. There are successes from both sides of the spectrum. Its like weight lifting, there are many theories, you just need to find the best fit for you.
 

k1ssme1m1r1sh

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What? Did you pass out for the CW years? ND has had one of the more productive offenses in the country for 4 of the past 5 years. This year's offense isn't quite living up to those highs, but I would hardly call it a boring offense...

Ok don't call it boring...call it predictable. Come on, ND doesn't take risks, they sure don't look like any other team in the top 25, or 10 for that matter. I love ND, but they are predicatable.
 

Riddickulous

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Dayne is our best option, right now. Everybody needs to STFU.

He WILL get pushed in the offseason for a number of reasons, mainly...

1. He's been unsatisfactory.
2. Kelly is ruthless with depth charts. The best player plays. If a freshman is better than a three year starter, the freshman plays.

If Crist wins the battle in the offseason, it's because he's earned it. I'm 100% certain Kelly will pound mechanics into Crist's brain with a jackhammer.
 

irishff1014

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Crist needs to be watching video with is Wrs picking that defense apart.
 

Old Man Mike

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Thanks Terry for a powerful article---Pike's remarks were particularly impressive upon me...maybe a few folks will tone it down a bit if they read them.
 

ChiefSecond

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I think that Kelly is still in the hunt for a mobile (Robinson), running, agile quarterback (I think a requirement is that he MUST have dreadlocks lol).
81

Definitely definitely against this..These dreadlocked "quarterbacks" are no good, you'll never beat a good team...ask michigan how that experiment turned out.
Dayne is also not the answer..it's not a matter of learning the offense, his problems are deeper than that. Doesn't have the accuracy to make the clutch plays..AT ALL.. and just isn't that smart.

It'll take time but eventually he'll find his next tony pike.
 

lookingdeadred

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In a word ... no

In a word ... no

You are seeing things that you want to see.

Anyone else think that Dayne has possibly got an attitude problem?
I saw after he threw his first pick (i think) in the Navy game that he was walking away from Kelly as Kelly was speaking/yelling at him.
And I just wonder, as he was recruited by Weis for a pro style offense, if hes got an attitude problem with Kelly's offense and isn't excepting it fully.
I just can't figure out why hes playing so bad. He doesn't show emotion like AT ALL, hardly for good and hardly for bad.
Maybe I'm just to hard on the kid, he is Junior :)O). But also I see LOADS of potential and no reason he can't at least be operating at a consistent level of play.
I just think something is wrong with him mentally. Maybe hes just slow right now at reading and seeing the field but I think its something deeper than that. 81


You see that as "proof" that BK is down on Crist? ND needs to recruit a potential starting QB pretty much every year. It will be even more critical next recruiting season as it seems unlikely ND will land a quality QB this year.


Recently on Inside Notre Dame, a fan asked a question "whats your primary recruiting focus?" And he said Defense and a Quarterback. So I think that Kelly is still in the hunt for a mobile (Robinson), running, agile quarterback (I think a requirement is that he MUST have dreadlocks lol).81
 

eNDzone

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ND brought Coach Kelly in knowing exactly what kind of coach he was. The yelling didn't start this year and it won't go away next year. I like the fire in our coaches.

Pike's comments are worth reading.

I'm also sure that by next year if it does not kick in like Pike says, Andrew Hendrix will be putting enough pressure on Dayne to perform that Kelly won't need to yell. I think Dayne's the man but he has no real competition to drive him from beneath on the depth chart this year. He will next year.
 

Irish Insanity

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my humble opinion about this is that DC is a good kid who more than anyone, feels the pressure of ND's success is riding on his shoulders, and is having a difficult time mentally with it. He's a bit like Te'o (who also tries too hard at times, overpursuing, going for the kill and not wrapping up) but with even more responsibility and more spotlight given the emphasis on passing in this offense.

That explains the ups and downs, the great throws and horrible ones and the interceptions at bad times. Think Brett Favre without the confidence, taking chances like him because he feels the pressure of carrying this team, but without the confidence to spring back up from a mistake quickly, thereby causing these long periods of under par play.

It IS possible that he dpesn't respond well to having BK ride him at each mistake, it's like shovelling that much more pressure on his shoulders.

I'm torn. Part of me thinks this kid could break out and become a superstar if he just loosened up and had a few flawless games, the other part thinks he might always crumble when the pressure mounts. It's very difficult to figure at this point, and BK himself must be wondering how to correctly motivate this guy.

Agree, nicely stated.
 

kmoose

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Ok don't call it boring...call it predictable. Come on, ND doesn't take risks, they sure don't look like any other team in the top 25, or 10 for that matter. I love ND, but they are predicatable.

Yeah, because Jim Tressel is known for being a "riverboat gambler" type of coach?
 

ndcoltsfan2010

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my humble opinion about this is that DC is a good kid who more than anyone, feels the pressure of ND's success is riding on his shoulders, and is having a difficult time mentally with it. He's a bit like Te'o (who also tries too hard at times, overpursuing, going for the kill and not wrapping up) but with even more responsibility and more spotlight given the emphasis on passing in this offense.

That explains the ups and downs, the great throws and horrible ones and the interceptions at bad times. Think Brett Favre without the confidence, taking chances like him because he feels the pressure of carrying this team, but without the confidence to spring back up from a mistake quickly, thereby causing these long periods of under par play.

It IS possible that he dpesn't respond well to having BK ride him at each mistake, it's like shovelling that much more pressure on his shoulders.

I'm torn. Part of me thinks this kid could break out and become a superstar if he just loosened up and had a few flawless games, the other part thinks he might always crumble when the pressure mounts. It's very difficult to figure at this point, and BK himself must be wondering how to correctly motivate this guy.

Great post! You put into words what I am sure alot of us are thinking.
 

TDHeysus

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I'm torn. Part of me thinks this kid could break out and become a superstar if he just loosened up and had a few flawless games, the other part thinks he might always crumble when the pressure mounts. It's very difficult to figure at this point, and BK himself must be wondering how to correctly motivate this guy.

I dont want to simplify what I believe DC is going thru, but I think it can be summed up concisely by saying that DC needs to 'Buck Up'.

DC needs to actively look to see what he can do to stop BK from yelling at him. Why does he yell at me? what did I do just before he blew up at me? What steps do I take to make sure that doesnt happen again?

I also think that DC needs to elevate his own expectations of himself. That is something he could look to JC's example for. JC was never short on his own expectations, and what JC thought his own game should be. I dont see that same tenacity with DC......yet. I always thought it was funny ppl said JC was arrogant, I always believe there is fine line between arrogance and confidence.

Something happened in JC's life after the infamous syracuse game. The HAW game was phenomonal, then came the summer quote "we're not losing because of me." Then came his 28td-4int junior season. Then came the NFL. JC expected to succeed; I think right now DC wants and hopes he succeeds.

DC needs his 'post-syracuse' moment to happen.
 
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Riddickulous

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I don't care about Tony Pike's opinion. He's not an expert on how to run a program.
 

NeuteredDoomer

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Amazing how much can get read into Crist's "attitude" based on a one second TV sideline flash. Dayne walked straight over to Kelly and pulled off his chinstrap. He did not sneak away. Just amazing.

I think folks that have all the answers really need to go back and rewatch some plays, and tell me how much time Dayne has had throw, and how many receivers he had open on a microsecond decision, and all this while he was trying to catch the snap and position the ball in his hands.

I'm not making excuses for him - I believe I was one of the first on here to question his play so far - but the assumptions being made here about his "attitude" seem pretty silly.

Who knows but Crist and Kelly. But I will repeat, such negative reinforcement after a mistake benefits NOBODY and can only create animosity.
 
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IrishBlood81

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Amazing how much can get read into Crist's "attitude" based on a one second TV sideline flash. Dayne walked straight over to Kelly and pulled off his chinstrap. He did not sneak away. Just amazing.

I think folks that have all the answers really need to go back and rewatch some plays, and tell me how much time Dayne has had throw, and how many receivers he had open on a microsecond decision, and all this while he was trying to catch the snap and position the ball in his hands.
I'm not making excuses for him - I believe I was one of the first on here to question his play so far - but the assumptions being made here about his "attitude" seem pretty silly.

Who knows but Crist and Kelly. But I will repeat, such negative reinforcement after a mistake benefits NOBODY and can only create animosity.

Come on bro. Its obviously not just that one instance. Its an overall performance issue/attitude or maybe like posted, lack of attitude. More than likely its that.
I was actually very surprised at how well this post has gone, reasonable, no hating stupid comments and just a good debate.


Definitely definitely against this..These dreadlocked "quarterbacks" are no good, you'll never beat a good team...ask michigan how that experiment turned out.
Dayne is also not the answer..it's not a matter of learning the offense, his problems are deeper than that. Doesn't have the accuracy to make the clutch plays..AT ALL.. and just isn't that smart.
It'll take time but eventually he'll find his next tony pike.

Yeah bro you right. I defo DO NOT want a Robinson. Hes amazing..but hes injured too often. So yeah don't want that. More like an Oregon QB. thats strong tuff, fast ..etc


You are seeing things that you want to see.
You see that as "proof" that BK is down on Crist? ND needs to recruit a potential starting QB pretty much every year. It will be even more critical next recruiting season as it seems unlikely ND will land a quality QB this year.

No I'mm not. I don't want to see him play bad or have attitude. Thats just stupid, I mean for real?
No, but to say thats his #2 priority is pretty strong. But yeah maybe your right. But I think the way he said it (again reading too much into it! :D ) was very exasperated.


I dont want to simplify what I believe DC is going thru, but I think it can be summed up concisely by saying that DC needs to 'Buck Up'.
DC needs to actively look to see what he can do to stop BK from yelling at him. Why does he yell at me? what did I do just before he blew up at me? What steps do I take to make sure that doesnt happen again?
I also think that DC needs to elevate his own expectations of himself. That is something he could look to JC's example for. JC was never short on his own expectations, and what JC thought his own game should be. I dont see that same tenacity with DC......yet. I always thought it was funny ppl said JC was arrogant, I always believe there is fine line between arrogance and confidence.
Something happened in JC's life after the infamous syracuse game. The HAW game was phenomonal, then came the summer quote "we're not losing because of me." Then came his 28td-4int junior season. Then came the NFL. JC expected to succeed; I think right now DC wants and hopes he succeeds.
DC needs his 'post-syracuse' moment to happen.

Definitely agree with this post ^^. I think its right on. Hes totally got the potential and the talent the skill...etc He just needs that extra little something to make him great. And yeah, I believe its the confidence.
Funny what you said about arrogance and confidence. People said that Golden was arrogant, but I said it was confidence and I loved it! I see a bit of that in Riddick which is exciting.

But..I mean please, Crist, don't make us wait fora Syracuse loss!!!! PLEASE! I'm begging you!!

And to address the whole Yelling don't Yell thing, check out this quote from Huggins about Kelly;

Savon Huggins said:
"[Kelly has] flat out told me that if I play the best there I’m going to be the running back next year. He’s hands on and I respect that type of coaching. I don’t want a coach that just lets you walk past him when you make a mistake. I want someone that will tell me when I do something right and get in my face if I do something wrong.”

So I guess I really think it depends on the player. Some won't like it, and want a more laid back coach. To me that tells me about the kind of player that one would be like. Lazy. If I played, I'd want a coach to push me till I break and than push me more. I would hope that these guys WANT to be good.
Its obvious that Kelly ain't just yelling to yell. Hes passionate about the game and heck! his butt is on the line. Hes got the same if not more, pressure as Crist!


Great reading all you guys post. I think its a very interesting debate.

Cheers!

81
 
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Kra88yPa77y

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I think Kelly does yell just to yell, his O scheme has been a joke thus far. Every mistake made he acts more childish than spurrier, I dont see how him having this boy you sure are a moron look and follow that with berating helps a QB at all
 

IrishBlood81

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I think Kelly does yell just to yell, his O scheme has been a joke thus far. Every mistake made he acts more childish than spurrier, I dont see how him having this boy you sure are a moron look and follow that with berating helps a QB at all



*sigh* ...before I say something ..uh bad I'm just going to assume your joking. Works out better for both of us, moron. ...oh shoot! oops!




81
 

GDomer09

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Our line seemed to block better for Rees than Dayne as well!?!?! Maybe he does have an attitude problem! Maybe he needs a timeout. Oh wait he has all year for that now. Who cares, I always thought Dayne has been extremely inconsistent anyway. He's not the chosen one I once thought he was. :(
 

NeuteredDoomer

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Rees was given the quick outs, hooks, comebacks, and flares to throw to that Crist was never given. Makes the QB, backs, line, and receivers look All American. All Rees had to do was play catch.

That's just my thought.
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

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Rees was given the quick outs, hooks, comebacks, and flares to throw to that Crist was never given. Makes the QB, backs, line, and receivers look All American. All Rees had to do was play catch.

That's just my thought.

Child....Please......
 

IrishBlood81

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lol sigh all you want, let me know when im actually wrong tho. k thx

And I will. Did you read that quote I posted of Savon Huggins? That proves that your wrong right there. And obviously, you've met/played for Kelly to say that right? Cause if you just watch the games like the rest of it and ASSUME it, your wrong until we find out from some one who actually KNOWS.
You know...if you used caps and spelling, you'd get more respect. but "k thx" just shows your either 8-13 or just don't really care about what your saying.

@Neuter
Dude, I don't really know but I agree with you. Thats what he said after the Michigan game that if a Back up would go in there, he'd have packages that would be easier for him to manage so yeah your right. But than you ask yourself WHY the heck wasn't he using those packages THAT WORKED for Dayne? Maybe Kelly expected to much from Dayne to do things he couldn't manage.


81
 

NeuteredDoomer

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And I will. Did you read that quote I posted of Savon Huggins? That proves that your wrong right there. And obviously, you've met/played for Kelly to say that right? Cause if you just watch the games like the rest of it and ASSUME it, your wrong until we find out from some one who actually KNOWS.
You know...if you used caps and spelling, you'd get more respect. but "k thx" just shows your either 8-13 or just don't really care about what your saying.

@Neuter
Dude, I don't really know but I agree with you. Thats what he said after the Michigan game that if a Back up would go in there, he'd have packages that would be easier for him to manage so yeah your right. But than you ask yourself WHY the heck wasn't he using those packages THAT WORKED for Dayne? Maybe Kelly expected to much from Dayne to do things he couldn't manage.


81

I thought EXACTLY that. Maybe in his "win now" mentality, he put too much on Dayne's plate. I think I even posted that somewhere a while back. That could also explain the "apparent" frustration Kelly showed with Crist on the sidelines. Again, as everyone else, I have no clue what they talk about or expect of each other at practice or during the games, but the thought definitely entered my grey gooey stuff.

Whatever the case, my prayers are with Coach Kelly for strength and peace of mind from here on out. He was flat out stuttering through a couple of the brief interviews I saw yesterday. Clear sign of a man under severe stress. Stay strong Coach.

I also can't begin to describe how badly I feel for Crist. That guy to me was the next great All American everything, and now he has to watch from the sidelines. I still have my early vote for him as California governor when he decides to run.
 

irishff1014

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The problem with the second half was they got away from the easy plays and started getting harder players for Rees.
 
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