COVID-19

[Irishize]

Even though I'm skeptical of overall benefit in the classroom, I'd be OK with mask mandates in high school and maybe even middle school. From what I've read, my personal opinion is that mask mandates for kids in elementary school are almost useless.

It’s something that will remain up for debate for the near future. Look at the exceptions the public makes b/c the benefits outweigh the risks or b/c of biases towards their preferences. For example, nurses get exposed to a patient who tested positive for COVID but they are also desperately needed in the front lines so they can’t afford to have them quarantine b/c they need the bodies. Or high school athletics. You think sports is taking a back seat to COVID? Not where I live. I’m pro-sports and my son plays HS sports but it’s pretty obvious in our town that this HS football season will go on w/o a hitch and that includes two-a-days, early morning practices, evening practices, etc.

I say all that to say I hope we get clearer data that allows us to delineate between what can safely be done moving forward vs locking everything down yet making exceptions for the things we “deem” more essential. Similar to the politicians who push mask mandates, business closures & lockdowns only to be caught violating their own rules on hidden camera. They aren’t the only ones.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Been reading quite a few articles recently about vaccine interval dosing. Long story short, United States and Israel chose the minimum interval of 3 weeks to get as many people fully vaccinated as quick as possible. UK, Germany, Canada and a few others chose to extend the interval trying to get as many 1st dose shots in the arms of as many people as possible. The additional advantage of lengthening the spacing interval is that the body creates a bigger immune response when the interval is extended. Certainly both choices could be considered reasonable at the time, but by the United Sates and Israel choosing the shortest interval, it likely created a more immediate need for a booster shot.

UK insisted on doing a 12 week interval despite a lot of push back. As Delta ramped up they shortened the interval to 8 weeks believing that is the "sweet spot" for maximizing long term immunity and getting people fully vaccinated. Since that time there has been a study where there didn't appear to be much difference between immune responses over time when comparing the 8 week interval and the 12 week interval.

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/TheTorontoSun/status/1418371739868930052[/TWEET]

 

[Irish#1]

Found out yesterday our 22 year old granddaughter has COVID. Pretty sure she hasn't gotten vaccinated. Symptoms are mild as of now. The irony is the company she works for has been contracted to do research work with Eli Lily.

Then one of the guys on my staff has a son (elementary school age) that tested positive. His entire class is quarantined. I have him working from home as a precaution and today he tells me he's pretty sure he has it as he has a number of the symptoms. He had COVID last year and got vaccinated earlier this year.

 

[RDU Irish]

I share your frustrations here. I'd like to think that the proven track record of properly designed masks for public use would hav ealleviated this issue, instead of what we currently have which is a hodge podge of whatever is available.

I think what is being said is "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". All the ifs and buts you apply to an effective mask mandate should answer your own question. Completely impractical to implement so assuming perfect implementation for nominal gain is foolish.

I am awaiting lockdowns - as soon as the politicians see the peak is in they will lockdown to claim victory. Much like I wake up every morning and declare the sun will rise in the east - if I didn't it wouldn't happen.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

I think what is being said is "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". All the ifs and buts you apply to an effective mask mandate should answer your own question. Completely impractical to implement so assuming perfect implementation for nominal gain is foolish.

I am awaiting lockdowns - as soon as the politicians see the peak is in they will lockdown to claim victory. Much like I wake up every morning and declare the sun will rise in the east - if I didn't it wouldn't happen.

I dont share your pessimissim on being able to implement effective mask usage. Its literally done to great success every day in a grat many fields of work.

 

[Rogue219]

Two kids in our school district have tested positive and have symptoms. Both under the age of 12.

Let the good times roll.

 

[RDU Irish]

I dont share you r pessimissim on being able to impent effective mask usage. Its literally done to great success every day in a grat many fields of work.

Getting fitted for those N95s should be a fun follow up govie mandate. A JOB requirement versus a LIFE requirement - do you even hear yourself?

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Getting fitted for those N95s should be a fun follow up govie mandate. A JOB requirement versus a LIFE requirement - do you even hear yourself?

I do and Im wearing my shocked face that you cant see the nuances lol.

 

[RDU Irish]

I do and Im wearing my shocked face that you cant see the nuances lol.

Right back at ya hoss (cough, Russia collusion, cough). I think by nuance you mean "doesn't work in practice because everyone didn't do it right". Your perfect plan is only effective if perfectly executed - I find that to bee a foolish standard. Get your vax and get on with your life folks - or don't, but get on with your life.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Right back at ya hoss (cough, Russia collusion, cough). I think by nuance you mean "doesn't work in practice because everyone didn't do it right". Your perfect plan is only effective if perfectly executed - I find that to bee a foolish standard. Get your vax and get on with your life folks - or don't, but get on with your life.

Im still waiting for someone to explain to me where my right to not get sick from you starts and stops in public.

 

[RDU Irish]

Im still waiting for someone to explain to me where my right to not get sick from you starts and stops in public.

Hypochondria is a mental illness, at least it used to be. Have fun suing everyone every time you get a sniffle, seems like a normal, well adjusted way to go through life.

 

[tussin]

Im still waiting for someone to explain to me where my right to not get sick from you starts and stops in public.

There is no precedent that suggests a policy or legal remedy for incidental spreading viral disease. So to answer your question... you have no right to "not get sick" in public. That's why every individual can make personal risk assessments regarding the virus. Once vaccinated, most feel that decision becomes very easy given the risk profile of the disease.

EDIT: As always, this just comes down to "get vaccinated." Once everyone is vaccinated, COVID is relegated to an extremely mild flu from a public health perspective and becomes a non-factor. For those that are anti-vaccine and get seriously ill, my sympathies but that's the risk you run.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Im still waiting for someone to explain to me where my right to not get sick from you starts and stops in public.

The problem is it's a moving target. How do we decide how long masks need to be worn? Who decides how long they have to be worn? The CDC and Fauci have been all over the map lacking any consistent decision making. Initially we were told we needed to lockdown to bend the curve. Later that changed for many people where we needed to lockdown to prevent any additional death. Where does it end? COVID is likely here to stay. Are we to wear masks forever? The flu kills far more kids than COVID, are kids to wear masks indefinitely because one death is too many?

RDU is right about one thing, at some point we have to get on with our life.

 

[IrishRazor82]

Right back at ya hoss (cough, Russia collusion, cough). I think by nuance you mean "doesn't work in practice because everyone didn't do it right". Your perfect plan is only effective if perfectly executed - I find that to bee a foolish standard. Get your vax and get on with your life folks - or don't, but get on with your life.

Some people live such meaningless lives that COVID is their life's superbowl - they don't want it to go away, it levels the playing field by forcing others to drop their quality of life and join the loser-pool.

Swine FLU was 6X as deadly for Children as COVID, we know FLU is more dangerous to children, but here we are fighting imaginary dragons.

 

[NDdomer2]

CDC study showing that unvaccinated have 5x higher risk of infection and 29x higher risk of hospitalization.

Hospitalization risk is likely far more accurate that then risk of infection. I say this because there are likely many fully vaccinated that have been infected with so few to no symptoms leading them to not get tested.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

CDC study showing that unvaccinated have 5x higher risk of infection and 29x higher risk of hospitalization.

Hospitalization risk is likely far more accurate that then risk of infection. I say this because there are likely many fully vaccinated that have been infected with so few to no symptoms leading them to not get tested.

They should just put a block on hospital beds for people who cant prove they are vaccianted.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

There is no precedent that suggests a policy or legal remedy for incidental spreading viral disease. So to answer your question... you have no right to "not get sick" in public. That's why every individual can make personal risk assessments regarding the virus. Once vaccinated, most feel that decision becomes very easy given the risk profile of the disease.

EDIT: As always, this just comes down to "get vaccinated." Once everyone is vaccinated, COVID is relegated to an extremely mild flu from a public health perspective and becomes a non-factor. For those that are anti-vaccine and get seriously ill, my sympathies but that's the risk you run.

I guess I understood that there is precedent for willfully and intentionally getting people sick for sure. If you have covid and you know it and you go out into the public space "living your life" you are potentially exposing hundreds to thousands of people. Can they prove you got an individual sick? Maybe through contact tracing...but generally unlikely. DO you not see that thats a problem even if its a moral one and not one that can be penalized by our justice system?

Im not trying to be antagonistic ...really trying to drill down on perceptions of the public space and communciable disseases that dont give a shit about personal freedoms.

 

[ab2cmiller]

They should just put a block on hospital beds for people who cant prove they are vaccianted.

Where does that end? Smokers, sorry can't help you. Drug overdose, not today. Diabetes, get back to us when you lose some weight. We should just ban cigarettes, alcohol, soft drinks and fast food. Problem solved.

 

[RDU Irish]

Cack - you sound like the guy that wants to bankrupt the local restaurant owner when you get the shits from some bad sushi.

 

[Rogue219]

Some people live such meaningless lives that COVID is their life's superbowl - they don't want it to go away, it levels the playing field by forcing others to drop their quality of life and join the loser-pool.

Swine FLU was 6X as deadly for Children as COVID, we know FLU is more dangerous to children, but here we are fighting imaginary dragons.

This is wins the internet today as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Cack - you sound like the guy that wants to bankrupt the local restaurant owner when you get the shits from some bad sushi.

LMAO... no... just asking questions. I learn alot by asking questions.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Where does that end? Smokers, sorry can't help you. Drug overdose, not today. Diabetes, get back to us when you lose some weight. We should just ban cigarettes, alcohol, soft drinks and fast food. Problem solved.

Id say its up to the hosptial to decide.

 

[RDU Irish]

They should just put a block on hospital beds for people who cant prove they are vaccianted.

Slippery slope buddy. No more treating drug abusers or fatties. Illegally in this country, die in the streets! How dare anyone take away healthcare capacity through bad choices - except that is the source of massive amounts of health care demand! Why treat smokers for anything. Taliban approves of this message.

 

[tussin]

I guess I understood that there is precedent for willfully and intentionally getting people sick for sure. If you have covid and you know it and you go out into the public space "living your life" you are potentially exposing hundreds to thousands of people. Can they prove you got an individual sick? Maybe through contact tracing...but generally unlikely. DO you not see that thats a problem even if its a moral one and not one that can be penalized by our justice system?

Im not trying to be antagonistic ...really trying to drill down on perceptions of the public space and communciable disseases that dont give a shit about personal freedoms.

If you have COVID and are willfully and intentionally getting people sick in public then that's a serious problem. I completely agree from a moral perspective, though I do have questions as to how common those actions actually are. I'm sure there are publicized cases of that happening but suspect that the population of individuals that would actually do that is a vast, vast minority.

To your question on if that is a punishable offense legally, I have no idea! Sounds like an interesting and consequential Supreme Court case.

 

[TorontoGold]

Where does that end? Smokers, sorry can't help you. Drug overdose, not today. Diabetes, get back to us when you lose some weight. We should just ban cigarettes, alcohol, soft drinks and fast food. Problem solved.

Not sure "banning" them from hospital beds is the right choice, but make them pay more.

If you (not actually you) want to F around and be scared of a vaccine then you should be paying more. Wish it could be something to be instituted up here, alas socialized medicine.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Slippery slope buddy. No more treating drug abusers or fatties. Illegally in this country, die in the streets! How dare anyone take away healthcare capacity through bad choices - except that is the source of massive amounts of health care demand! Why treat smokers for anything. Taliban approves of this message.

Eh.. i get what you ar saying but people who ate too many big macs over 40 years are not stressing our HC system to its breaking point right now and those people arent a risk at getting someone esle deadly sick with a preventable communciable disease in a building full of immuncopromised persons. Nuance.

 

[Irishize]

Where does that end? Smokers, sorry can't help you. Drug overdose, not today. Diabetes, get back to us when you lose some weight. We should just ban cigarettes, alcohol, soft drinks and fast food. Problem solved.

Exactly. We can be frustrated that folks who don’t get vaccinated are the ones filling up ICUs but, to your point; where does it end. That’s a very slippery slope because this country spends a TON of money on dialysis for those who can’t afford it. Now ask yourself why they need dialysis. With Cackalacky’s logic, the ones who were gluttons w/ food, alcohol, etc should be refused dialysis b/c it was self inflicted. Same goes for smokers who knew the risks but want the gov’t to pay for their triple bypass or COPD treatment.

And while I want everyone who is 12+ and able to get vaccinated, I don’t think it’s a good lesson to encourage those who are in poor health who knowingly gorged themselves on unhealthy food, overindulged in alcohol, drugs &/or smokes and are sedentary to think a vaccination is some panacea that allows them to be gluttons. America has become Pavlovian in expecting our respective HCP to give us a pill or injection to fix our poor choices. There is no pill or injection that can safely prevent people from poor choices yet the con is that “Medicare for all” will fix that and the US will no longer be one of the unhealthiest nations in the Western world. Everyone is not a “pro choice” as they pretend. So it’d be nice to hear the paragons of science & health to urge folks to live healthier in combination w/ their vaccine or the consequences may be what we’ve seen in COVID from day one.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Exactly. We can be frustrated that folks who don’t get vaccinated are the ones filling up ICUs but, to your point; where does it end. That’s a very slippery slope because this country spends a TON of money on dialysis for those who can’t afford it. Now ask yourself why they need dialysis. With Cackalacky’s logic, the ones who were gluttons w/ food, alcohol, etc should be refused dialysis b/c it was self inflicted. Same goes for smokers who knew the risks but want the gov’t to pay for their triple bypass or COPD treatment.

And while I want everyone who is 12+ and able to get vaccinated, I don’t think it’s a good lesson to encourage those who are in poor health who knowingly gorged themselves on unhealthy food, overindulged in alcohol, drugs &/or smokes and are sedentary to think a vaccination is some panacea that allows them to be gluttons. America has become Pavlovian in expecting our respective HCP to give us a pill or injection to fix our poor choices. There is no pill or injection that can safely prevent people from poor choices yet the con is that “Medicare for all” will fix that and the US will no longer be one of the unhealthiest nations in the Western world. Everyone is not a “pro choice” as they pretend. So it’d be nice to hear the paragons of science & health to urge folks to live healthier in combination w/ their vaccine or the consequences may be what we’ve seen in COVID from day one.

Not true... see my response above. Is diabetes, lung cancer, clogged arteries communciable and can it kill them?

I have to say its interesting to see you all comparing a deadly communciable disease to long term comorbidities....

 

[ab2cmiller]

Not sure "banning" them from hospital beds is the right choice, but make them pay more.

If you (not actually you) want to F around and be scared of a vaccine then you should be paying more. Wish it could be something to be instituted up here, alas socialized medicine.

The hospitals would love if they could charge more for the same treatment. Definitely the wrong approach. The only approach that I would agree with is the employer charging more for the insurance. Delta is starting to charge $200 per month more for insurance to unvaccinated staff. I have no problem with that. The unvaccinated will likely lead to increased costs to the insurance company which will be passed on to the company through rate increases.

Edit:
I wonder what Delta is doing with people who previously had COVID. Do they have to get vaccinated or get charged the $200. I would certainly argue that they shouldn't as their body is likely more immune than those that received the vaccine.

 

[TorontoGold]

The hospitals would love if they could charge more for the same treatment. Definitely the wrong approach. The only approach that I would agree with is the employer charging more for the insurance. Delta is starting to charge $200 per month more for insurance to unvaccinated staff. I have no problem with that. The unvaccinated will likely lead to increased costs to the insurance company which will be passed on to the company through rate increases.

Edit:
I wonder what Delta is doing with people who previously had COVID. Do they have to get vaccinated or get charged the $200. I would certainly argue that they shouldn't as their body is likely more immune than those that received the vaccine.

Killing yourself to own Big Hospital is certainly the wrong approach.

People should simply pay more for being moronic. It's not a hard concept that would get incredible support.