COVID-19

[Irish YJ]

I read a good Forbes article last night about the Wuhan testing lab. It's really interesting and certainly gives a lot of credibility to the ideas that once were thought of as "far right conspiracy theories". https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrap...n-focus-of-coronavirus-outbreak/#7291971e1ee1

I guess you can say the source of the question is biased, but the question was pretty blunt. "What did you do with the time you bought?" He can ad hominem his way out of responding to the argument, but it doesn't take away from actual substance of the question.

The earliest report pointing to the lab, was actually from China IIRC. Once reported here, mainstream media immediately jumped in to carry China's water and condemn anyone talking about the lab tie ins.

I don't see her question as trying to get a legitimate answer. While I would have preferred Trump give an unemotional response, I can understand his pre-existing frustration with many specific reporters, and also what he likely sees as just another gotcha predicated on hindsight, etc..

For example, both Birx and Fauchi have commented on the time period between the travel ban and XX, and talked about the knowns and unknowns during that time. Fauci himself downplayed the virus from late Jan through late Feb (I think around the 20th). So in short, we have a president who creates a task force on the Jan29, shuts down travel Jan31, yet the doctor everyone loves is saying the risk to the US is "minuscule" through Feb20ish.

I don't mind the question, if folks are are sincerely looking to talk timelines, and compare what was actually known/unknown, what ALL people (including dems) were saying and doing, etc.. What is really rich is Pelosi criticizing Trump for January and February, while she was criticizing the travel ban, and was in Chinatown at the end of February saying "come to Chinatown".... Revisionist bullshit and hypocrisy is much of what we're seeing now.

 

[Irish YJ]

My understanding is that a lot of the jobs that have gone to China require a technical aptitude that just isn’t very plentiful here in the States. I don’t pretend to know the reasons why but I’d like to learn more.

Nah... I've outsourced a lot of stuff in my life for big corp. China, India, Slovakia, Central and S America, were the biggest hitters. Everything from engineering to help desk and simple CC. For the most part, it's just cost of labor. Had a large technical center in NJ about 10ish years ago, and we went out of our way to hire folks from India via Visa process (actually worked in NJ), and at the same time, opened up a center in Bratislava for coordination and PM. It is true for example that there is a plethora of cheap technical skill in India, but those jobs had Americans doing them prior to the shift.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

It's been gaining traction for over a month (probably longer). Very early reports (no bats sold in markets, bats used in Covid testing, folks disappeared that provided info) made it very plausible IMO. Seems pretty strange that they'd open up the wet markets so fast if they indeed believed it to be the source. Just really hard to believe anything China says after what we've seen the last 4 months (not to mention just their norm prior to that).

Agree it's been around awhile but credible sources with broad exposure are now talking about it openly. I dont think they would get the green light unless there is legitimate traction.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Agree it's been around awhile but credible sources with broad exposure are now talking about it openly. I dont think they would get the green light unless there is legitimate traction.

Here is another article. There must be hell to pay. But there won't be because the world is terrified of China:

https://thediplomat.com/2020/04/did-xi-jinping-deliberately-sicken-the-world/

 

[Irish YJ]

Agree it's been around awhile but credible sources with broad exposure are now talking about it openly. I dont think they would get the green light unless there is legitimate traction.

I think it's more that the folks that tried to carry water for China early simply can't fight the facts anymore. Call it a green light, but IMO, it's purely because they know they have to shift.

 

[RDU Irish]

Will be interesting to see what manufacturing gets pulled out of China as a result of this. Pharma in particular needs to be at minimum in countries we can influence easier if not some level produced in the US for national security.

More redundancy, a serious look at just in time inventory systems - a lot of CAPEX in play.

Also - look at automation to get more traction in a lot of areas previously heavy in unskilled workers. Self service ordering at McDs plus automated fryers and so on. Risk of wage inflation was manageable but now a secondary factor of being able to work through something like this has to get the boo-birds out of the way.

 

[TorontoGold]

I think it's more that the folks that tried to carry water for China early simply can't fight the facts anymore. Call it a green light, but IMO, it's purely because they know they have to shift.

I think everyone on both sides got "caught" by China. If you look at what Trump was saying either by press conferences or tweets he was praising their efforts to contain the virus into the end of February.

 

[Irishize]

Nah... I've outsourced a lot of stuff in my life for big corp. China, India, Slovakia, Central and S America, were the biggest hitters. Everything from engineering to help desk and simple CC. For the most part, it's just cost of labor. Had a large technical center in NJ about 10ish years ago, and we went out of our way to hire folks from India via Visa process (actually worked in NJ), and at the same time, opened up a center in Bratislava for coordination and PM. It is true for example that there is a plethora of cheap technical skill in India, but those jobs had Americans doing them prior to the shift.

Gotcha! Thx

 

[Irish YJ]

I think everyone on both sides got "caught" by China. If you look at what Trump was saying either by press conferences or tweets he was praising their efforts to contain the virus into the end of February.

"Everyone" being "caught" is my point. Any attack on the time period is simply revisionist BS. At minimum, Trump deserved props for the early travel lock down, yet he was pummeled for it. The media however tried to jump on the lab story and paint it as conspiracy.

 

[Irishize]

What's your opinion on Paula Reid the other night when she called on Trump to explain what he did in February?

I know at times the Jim Acosta's of the world give MSM a bad name, but I think there is legitimate questions that he get's asked and he flips out.

Here’s what I’ve concluded regarding the pressers: The media loves the media & Trump loves Trump. That’s led me to tune out b/c they’re not addressing the matter at hand...it’s just petty bickering. I’m sure there’s been plenty of great questions posed by the media and there’s been plenty of good things delivered by Trump. But overall, EVERYONE from epidemiologists, to Trump, to CNN, to FOX, to the rest of MSM, to Fauci, etc. have published or reported statements or data that were later contradicted. I’m done w/ all of them until they decide to address the plans moving forward to get this country past the pandemic.

We all remember 9/11 when the public discovered that the US had been alerted to Al Queda planning something drastic against the US. At the time, we also found out that the FBI & CIA weren’t cooperating w/ each other. All this happened under Bush in real time but when you trace back to the previous administration, you find out the US had a chance to eliminate bin Laden yet didn’t. That was under Clinton. I don’t type that to say either POTUS is at fault. Just to note that a myriad of things had to converge for the tragedy to occur.

Same thing w/ the current pandemic.Trump has been far from perfect but giving him 100% blame for everything that led up to this or even what’s happened since January is not rational. We find out that W Bush acknowledged the need for preparing for a pandemic yet in the ensuing years bureaucracy and circumstances affecting the medical company manufacturing ventilators for the country torpedoed the ability to get a stockpile. But it’s not fair to go back and say “why didn’t Obama resolve this?!?!”.

I say all that & it will fall on deaf ears b/c a majority of folks either hate Trump or love Trump and the pressers are verbal porn for those who get just as riled up & excited as the media & Trump do before, during & after these interactions.

 

[Legacy]

Since someone brought in politics, I expected nothing less from Trump. His personality disorder and behavior only allows him to:
- shirk responsibility
- blame - media, Chinese, Dems, Govs, etc.
- distract from any of his actions
- denigrate others - one Gov is a "snake", another “way in over her head” and “doesn’t have a clue.”, "complainers" and an Italian Gov's brother as "Fredo", call reporters "third rate", "terrible", "nasty", and much more, as citizens die without federal support
- spread disinformation
- calls his responses "perfect"
- characterizes himself as smarter than anyone

Blame, distract, denigrate, attack, insult, hyperbolize, and inflate ego.

We don't raise our children that way. We don't respect people who act that way. We expected more especially when faced with a medical crisis we have not experience in a century.

As Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) questions Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf who could not answer basic questions on coronavirus at an Appropriations Committee hearing:

KENNEDY: I'm going to hush here you're--you're supposed to keep us safe and the American people deserve some straight answers on the coronavirus and I'm not getting them from you.

We have had real heroes and seen the country unite and shared stories of compassion and caring for others. We know it. We've shared them and their concerns and difficulties. We celebrate those other Americans. He could at the very least acknowledge them. If he has, please post.

 

[Legacy]

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Mark Milley told reporters when asked if he had any evidence that the virus might have accidentally escaped a Chinese laboratory.

“It should be no surprise to you that we’ve taken a keen interest in that, and we’ve had a lot of intelligence take a hard look at that. At this point it’s inconclusive, although the weight of evidence seems to indicate natural, but we don’t know for certain.”

Joint Staff Surgeon Brig. Gen. Paul Friedrichs earlier this month in response to the idea that the virus originated in a lab.

“If I could just be clear, there is nothing to that. That is not something that I'm worried about. I think, you know, right now what we're concerned about is how do we treat people who are sick, how do we prevent people from getting sick. But no, I am not worried about this as a bioweapon.”

12 January 2020 - China publicly shared the genetic sequence of COVID-19.

 

[Irish YJ]

Here’s what I’ve concluded regarding the pressers: The media loves the media & Trump loves Trump. That’s led me to tune out b/c they’re not addressing the matter at hand...it’s just petty bickering. I’m sure there’s been plenty of great questions posed by the media and there’s been plenty of good things delivered by Trump. But overall, EVERYONE from epidemiologists, to Trump, to CNN, to FOX, to the rest of MSM, to Fauci, etc. have published or reported statements or data that were later contradicted. I’m done w/ all of them until they decide to address the plans moving forward to get this country past the pandemic.

We all remember 9/11 when the public discovered that the US had been alerted to Al Queda planning something drastic against the US. At the time, we also found out that the FBI & CIA weren’t cooperating w/ each other. All this happened under Bush in real time but when you trace back to the previous administration, you find out the US had a chance to eliminate bin Laden yet didn’t. That was under Clinton. I don’t type that to say either POTUS is at fault. Just to note that a myriad of things had to converge for the tragedy to occur.

Same thing w/ the current pandemic.Trump has been far from perfect but giving him 100% blame for everything that led up to this or even what’s happened since January is not rational. We find out that W Bush acknowledged the need for preparing for a pandemic yet in the ensuing years bureaucracy and circumstances affecting the medical company manufacturing ventilators for the country torpedoed the ability to get a stockpile. But it’s not fair to go back and say “why didn’t Obama resolve this?!?!”.

I say all that & it will fall on deaf ears b/c a majority of folks either hate Trump or love Trump and the pressers are verbal porn for those who get just as riled up & excited as the media & Trump do before, during & after these interactions.

good post. nailed it.

 

[Irish YJ]

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Mark Milley told reporters when asked if he had any evidence that the virus might have accidentally escaped a Chinese laboratory.



Joint Staff Surgeon Brig. Gen. Paul Friedrichs earlier this monthin response to the idea that the virus originated in a lab.



12 January 2020 - China publicly shared the genetic sequence of COVID-19.

The jest of what you're posting is around the bio weapon narrative. That's not what most are saying. What is assumed fact at this point per reports originating in China or scientists. 1) disease is likely from Chinese Horseshoe Bat due to molecular backbone. 2) The CH Bat was not sold at the wet market. 3) The CH Bat was used for testing purposed in the lab only a few blocks from the wet market. 4) there are reports that there was animal trade between the market and the lab.

So could be human to bat transmission that occurred in the lab, animal to animal to human transmission in the lab, lab animal to wet market animal to human transmission, etc.. In short, it's very plausible the virus itself originated in the lab and escaped. Has nothing to do with a bio weapon.

 

[TorontoGold]

Since someone brought in politics, I expected nothing less from Trump. His personality disorder and behavior only allows him to:
- shirk responsibility
- blame - media, Chinese, Dems, Govs, etc.
- distract from any of his actions
- denigrate others - one Gov is a "snake", another “way in over her head” and “doesn’t have a clue.”, "complainers" and an Italian Gov's brother as "Fredo", call reporters "third rate", "terrible", "nasty", and much more, as citizens die without federal support
- spread disinformation
- calls his responses "perfect"
- characterizes himself as smarter than anyone

Blame, distract, denigrate, attack, insult, hyperbolize, and inflate ego.

We don't raise our children that way. We don't respect people who act that way. We expected more especially when faced with a medical crisis we have not experience in a century.

As Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) questions Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf who could not answer basic questions on coronavirus at an Appropriations Committee hearing:



We have had real heroes and seen the country unite and shared stories of compassion and caring for others. We know it. We've shared them and their concerns and difficulties. We celebrate those other Americans. He could at the very least acknowledge them. If he has, please post.

This post is spot on. It's embarrassing hearing him chime in when the experts are talking. It's reminiscent to being in a group project, the class moron is in your group and wont STFU when you're giving the presentation.

 

[Irish YJ]

Since someone brought in politics, I expected nothing less from Trump. His personality disorder and behavior only allows him to:
- shirk responsibility
- blame - media, Chinese, Dems, Govs, etc.
- distract from any of his actions
- denigrate others - one Gov is a "snake", another “way in over her head” and “doesn’t have a clue.”, "complainers" and an Italian Gov's brother as "Fredo", call reporters "third rate", "terrible", "nasty", and much more, as citizens die without federal support
- spread disinformation
- calls his responses "perfect"
- characterizes himself as smarter than anyone

Blame, distract, denigrate, attack, insult, hyperbolize, and inflate ego.

We don't raise our children that way. We don't respect people who act that way. We expected more especially when faced with a medical crisis we have not experience in a century.

As Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) questions Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf who could not answer basic questions on coronavirus at an Appropriations Committee hearing:



We have had real heroes and seen the country unite and shared stories of compassion and caring for others. We know it. We've shared them and their concerns and difficulties. We celebrate those other Americans. He could at the very least acknowledge them. If he has, please post.

 

[Irish YJ]

Carry that water....

CNN publishes Chinese propaganda praising China, degrading the US Navy
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...paganda-praising-china-degrading-the-u-s-navy

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Since someone brought in politics, I expected nothing less from Trump. His personality disorder and behavior only allows him to:
- shirk responsibility
- blame - media, Chinese, Dems, Govs, etc.
- distract from any of his actions
- denigrate others - one Gov is a "snake", another “way in over her head” and “doesn’t have a clue.”, "complainers" and an Italian Gov's brother as "Fredo", call reporters "third rate", "terrible", "nasty", and much more, as citizens die without federal support
- spread disinformation
- calls his responses "perfect"
- characterizes himself as smarter than anyone

Blame, distract, denigrate, attack, insult, hyperbolize, and inflate ego.

We don't raise our children that way. We don't respect people who act that way. We expected more especially when faced with a medical crisis we have not experience in a century.

As Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) questions Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf who could not answer basic questions on coronavirus at an Appropriations Committee hearing:



We have had real heroes and seen the country unite and shared stories of compassion and caring for others. We know it. We've shared them and their concerns and difficulties. We celebrate those other Americans. He could at the very least acknowledge them. If he has, please post.

Since someone brought politics in I’m going to go ahead and post politics knowing that there is a dedicated forum to that, so let me get my political opinion in real quick before the mods remind everyone there’s no politics in here.

 

[Irishize]

As well intentioned as all the models have been whether they were authored by the Imperial College or IMHE (UW), they’ve been woefully incorrect.

The University of Sydney, Northwestern & UT have together found that only 30% of US states have an actual death count lying w/in the 95% prediction interval. That means 70% of actual death counts lie outside the 95% prediction interval. That’s what we are currently basing our lockdown on?!?!?

Can we all agree that the solution lies between “doing nothing” and “complete lockdown”? One NW statistician declared that we can’t even rely on IMHE correctly predicting what to expect the next day much less the next month.

Another thing I hope we can all agree on is that you don’t compare a densely populated state like NY or NJ to a small rural state like Kentucky or Alabama. Or for that matter, you can’t compare a densely populated state like NY where everyone’s on top of each other vs a densely populated state like California that is vastly spread out.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Since someone brought in politics, I expected nothing less from Trump. His personality disorder and behavior only allows him to:
- shirk responsibility
- blame - media, Chinese, Dems, Govs, etc.
- distract from any of his actions
- denigrate others - one Gov is a "snake", another “way in over her head” and “doesn’t have a clue.”, "complainers" and an Italian Gov's brother as "Fredo", call reporters "third rate", "terrible", "nasty", and much more, as citizens die without federal support
- spread disinformation
- calls his responses "perfect"
- characterizes himself as smarter than anyone

Blame, distract, denigrate, attack, insult, hyperbolize, and inflate ego.

We don't raise our children that way. We don't respect people who act that way. We expected more especially when faced with a medical crisis we have not experience in a century.

As Sen. John Kennedy (R-LA) questions Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf who could not answer basic questions on coronavirus at an Appropriations Committee hearing:



We have had real heroes and seen the country unite and shared stories of compassion and caring for others. We know it. We've shared them and their concerns and difficulties. We celebrate those other Americans. He could at the very least acknowledge them. If he has, please post.

Legacy, this is absolutely China's fault. Why wouldn't he or anyone else for that matter, blame China.

And we all know that Trump has his warts. It's part of his schtick. Just like being too cool for the room was Obamas.

We need to stop politicizing this

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

As well intentioned as all the models have been whether they were authored by the Imperial College or IMHE (UW), they’ve been woefully incorrect.

The University of Sydney, Northwestern & UT have together found that only 30% of US states have an actual death count lying w/in the 95% prediction interval. That means 70% of actual death counts lie outside the 95% prediction interval. That’s what we are currently basing our lockdown on?!?!?

Can we all agree that the solution lies between “doing nothing” and “complete lockdown”? One NW statistician declared that we can’t even rely on IMHE correctly predicting what to expect the next day much less the next month.

Another thing I hope we can all agree on is that you don’t compare a densely populated state like NY or NJ to a small rural state like Kentucky or Alabama. Or for that matter, you can’t compare a densely populated state like NY where everyone’s on top of each other vs a densely populated state like California that is vastly spread out.

More data brings more finely tuned models. I think we have to be careful not to over state what we've been able to accomplish with social distancing. And, again, there are likely other factors at play here that are not currently measurable or accounted for in the models. Fostering a general mistrust for the models secondarily nurtures a resentment for the epidemiologists and scientists often associated with them. This is a dangerous perspective for the general public to take because we still need to listen if/when a second wave or winter peak comes around.

I'm all for getting back to work, and I think there will be a well devised plan to start that process in the next couple weeks.

 

[Sea Turtle]

As well intentioned as all the models have been whether they were authored by the Imperial College or IMHE (UW), they’ve been woefully incorrect.

The University of Sydney, Northwestern & UT have together found that only 30% of US states have an actual death count lying w/in the 95% prediction interval. That means 70% of actual death counts lie outside the 95% prediction interval. That’s what we are currently basing our lockdown on?!?!?

Can we all agree that the solution lies between “doing nothing” and “complete lockdown”? One NW statistician declared that we can’t even rely on IMHE correctly predicting what to expect the next day much less the next month.

Another thing I hope we can all agree on is that you don’t compare a densely populated state like NY or NJ to a small rural state like Kentucky or Alabama. Or for that matter, you can’t compare a densely populated state like NY where everyone’s on top of each other vs a densely populated state like California that is vastly spread out.

This is fair and I certainly agree.

 

[Irish YJ]

folks in Michigan getting testy.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

folks in Michigan getting testy.

This is the backlash that will become more and more concerning and why we are possibly setting the stage for a large second spike.

 

[Irish YJ]

This is the backlash that will become more and more concerning and why we are possibly setting the stage for a large second spike.

Stupid government + stupid people = bad.....

We need some moderation, common sense, and patience from all sides.

 

[GoIrish41]

Stupid government + stupid people = bad.....

We need some moderation, common sense, and patience from all sides.

Oh, now we need common sense? That would be novel for this administration. Lots of folks dying from this hoax!

 

[yankeehater]

Oh, now we need common sense? That would be novel for this administration. Lots of folks dying from this hoax!

I am sick of coming on here and reading unhelpful posts like this especially of political nature (there is another forum for you to rant in). Is Trump or any politician perfect? "NO!" But for Einsteins like you that think Trump is the only one to blame can you explain why the top seven states for both cases and fatalities are all heavily left leaning "BLUE" states. The cases have also hit areas especially hard that have been run down by Democratic policies. These policies have led to poverty and poor health care in these areas. California has shut down hospitals in the most needed areas because unfunded emergency room visits many by undocumented citizens have made it impossible for them to financially sustain themselves. Now when needed most, there was the possibility of shortages because of this.

Sorry for the rant, but I stopped entering the political threads because I was tired of reading all of the BS from both sides.

 

[PerthDomer]

California's actually done quite well on a per capita basis...

 

[yankeehater]

California's actually done quite well on a per capita basis...

True....they are set to begin to test the homeless in LA on Friday so the numbers may see a spike.

 

[317Irish]

I am sick of coming on here and reading unhelpful posts like this especially of political nature (there is another forum for you to rant in). Is Trump or any politician perfect? "NO!" But for Einsteins like you that think Trump is the only one to blame can you explain why the top seven states for both cases and fatalities are all heavily left leaning "BLUE" states. The cases have also hit areas especially hard that have been run down by Democratic policies. These policies have led to poverty and poor health care in these areas. California has shut down hospitals in the most needed areas because unfunded emergency room visits many by undocumented citizens have made it impossible for them to financially sustain themselves. Now when needed most, there was the possibility of shortages because of this.

Sorry for the rant, but I stopped entering the political threads because I was tired of reading all of the BS from both sides.

Not calling any single individual out, but you must have glossed over a lot of other messages before choosing this one to complain about. That or you meant “I’m sick of hearing ideological opinions that don’t mesh with my own.”?