COVID-19

[SportsingHard]

Do they? You sound a little oppressed.

Liberals have a spectrum of people who matter a lot and need to be lifted up to people who don't count for shit and need to be taken down. As a straight, White, cisgendered male, I'm towards the bottom of the list. Still, I'm neither Catholic nor conservative, so I'm higher on the list than a lot of posters here.

 

[ndfanatic78]

Do they? You sound a little oppressed.

It’s so funny hearing white males talk about repression, talking about shaming white males, and how everyone is against them. I’m like all I hear is people talking about stopping the abuse of people of color if you are offended or feel oppressed by that maybe take a look in the mirror.

 

[SportsingHard]

It’s so funny hearing white males talk about repression, talking about shaming white males, and how everyone is against them. I’m like all I hear is people talking about stopping to abuse of people of color if you are offended or feel oppressed by that maybe take a look in the mirror.

If all I was hearing/witnessing was people talking about stopping abuse of people of color, I would agree with you whole-heartedly. And if all I ever heard from Trump was, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you did for me," I might be a big fan of him, too.

Fortunately, not "everyone" is a woke asshole, and nobody is shit on by "everyone."

 

[Meatloaf]

This whole thread is a sad reminder of how conservatives live in a completely different reality. Kremlin levels of propaganda JFC.

 

[oddz313]

Tell them about pets are being ate and immigrants are getting premium blue cross plans. Up until about 10 years ago the conspiracies were mostly just it was the government but now its became some liberal deep state cabal

This whole thread is a sad reminder of how conservatives live in a completely different reality. Kremlin levels of propaganda JFC.

 

[TorontoGold]

If a person makes a holistic statement, it includes, by definition, the individual parts that comprise the whole. This is objectively true.

Ok, so if someone cited homicide rates of the tourist spots of those countries do you think that would offer a holistic view of the situation? Or, do you think that would be representing the overall sentiment of the statement. It cuts both ways.

So do you agree with IrishWay that StL is either like a 3rd world country, a warzone, or a shithole?

Have you ever been to the city?

No? I don't think St. Louis is a 3rd world country or warzone. Those are pretty easily identifiable characteristics that most people can identify if they're not being hyperbolic.

Shithole is pretty subjective. I tend to think small rundown towns have more "shithole" characteristics to them than larger cities. For example, I think Buffalo is pretty rough but I would consider it "nicer" than say some rural midwest town.

I don't know why he mentioned them. I don't like to assume intentions. I only analyze what was actually said.

I can't say that for certain because I don't know the guy. I don't like to assume.

Perfect, no need to assume intentions, I'll provide you with the comment that is why I think he meant "blue state + blue city".

If someone makes the below comment, would it be safe to say that person is saying that it's "liberal" tweaking out ruining these cities?

When conservatives are tweaking out on the streets at 8am, shooting needles at traffic lights, and children can't want in their own city, I'll be fine with those conservatives getting arrested with the full force.

 

[sixstar]

This whole thread is a sad reminder of how conservatives live in a completely different reality. Kremlin levels of propaganda JFC.

Give me three irrefutable facts about COVID that conservatives refute, and let's debate those based on data and facts only.

 

[ndfanatic78]

This whole thread is a sad reminder of how conservatives live in a completely different reality. Kremlin levels of propaganda JFC.

How can you say Kremlin? The US propaganda machine is the greatest the world has ever seen. The leaders in the CIA back in 70’s literally said their goal was to have to the American people totally confused on what to believe. Flash forward to today damn they are good at what they do and it’s scary.

 

[Meatloaf]

How can you say Kremlin? The US propaganda machine is the greatest the world has ever seen. The leaders in the CIA back in 70’s literally said their goal was to have to the American people totally confused on what to believe. Flash forward to today damn they are good at what they do and it’s scary.

The GOP is everything conservatives claim to hate, an intrusive, anti-democratic party run by a ring of elite pedophiles.

 

[sixstar]

Ok, so if someone cited homicide rates of the tourist spots of those countries do you think that would offer a holistic view of the situation? Or, do you think that would be representing the overall sentiment of the statement. It cuts both ways.

Clearly not, because that would be a fallacy of composition.

By definition, it does not cut both ways. If someone makes a holistic statement about something, that statement includes all parts.

Shithole is pretty subjective. I tend to think small rundown towns have more "shithole" characteristics to them than larger cities. For example, I think Buffalo is pretty rough but I would consider it "nicer" than say some rural midwest town.

Agree it's subjective. And as such, people have different criteria, to include everything from public infrastructure to murder rates.

Perfect, no need to assume intentions, I'll provide you with the comment that is why I think he meant "blue state + blue city".

If someone makes the below comment, would it be safe to say that person is saying that it's "liberal" tweaking out ruining these cities?

Thanks, and yes, he's asserting that liberals are tweaking and ruining cities. It's certainly hyperbolic.

Maybe that's why he picked blue states? I still can't say for sure.

Sure, we can estimate that he picked a blue state based on his posting data. But, if we do that, then we also need to estimate if his statement has any truth to it. And if I ask AI if there is any correlation between political leaning and homeless drug users, it also estimates a moderately strong (r ~ 0.4 - 0.6) correlation.

While I disagree with his hyperbole, to put it in your terms: it cuts both ways.

 

[sixstar]

How can you say Kremlin? The US propaganda machine is the greatest the world has ever seen. The leaders in the CIA back in 70’s literally said their goal was to have to the American people totally confused on what to believe. Flash forward to today damn they are good at what they do and it’s scary.

Agree, and both parties use propaganda heavily.
But it goes back further than the 70s. Just look at all the nationalistic propaganda during the world wars.

The GOP is everything conservatives claim to hate, an intrusive, anti-democratic party run by a ring of elite pedophiles.

So we agree that both sides are filled with scummy people, yes? Both have been, and continue to be, behaving badly.

 

[Meatloaf]

Agree, and both parties use propaganda heavily.
But it goes back further than the 70s. Just look at all the nationalistic propaganda during the world wars.



So we agree that both sides are filled with scummy people, yes? Both have been, and continue to be, behaving badly.

BoTh SiDes. Whatever helps you sleep at night pedo defender.

 

[MacIrish75]

It would appear that COVID-19 has claimed yet another victim. 🪦 Koon…again.

 

[sixstar]

BoTh SiDes. Whatever helps you sleep at night pedo defender.

Stop assuming. It makes you look unhinged.

I'm fully in favor of releasing all Epstein files and punishing any guilty party to the fullest extent of the law, no matter who they are.

 

[irishnd31]

 

[Bluto]

This is a bad faith argument.

Yes, the supreme Court decision would be illegal if it were hyperbolically used exclusively for racial profiling. But it's not, and to believe otherwise is willful ignorance for sake of party allegiance.

Realistically, the majority of illegal immigrants that entered the US under the last administration were Hispanic, and so that is who ICE is targeting. They are trying to sidestep unnecessary bureaucracy that would take longer to build up evidence in obvious cases of illegal immigration. This ruling provides ICE greater flexibility to rapidly identify illegal immigrants.

Unfortunately, this means law abiding latino citizens might face discrimination. It sucks when good citizens are impacted by the bad decisions of a few, we can all agree on that, yeah?

Ironically, conservatives’ opposition to gun control which “punishes good citizens for bad actors” is similar to the criticism here, where law-abiding latinos face discrimination due to illegal immigration.

Does it allow racial profiling? Yes (and that's bad). But is it logical since most illegal immigrants were Hispanic? Also yes. It's messy and gray. And moderates like myself see both sides.

Does it mean conservatives hate brown people? Only if you are delusional.

This decision is definitely controversial, but three things are certain:

1) this decision is at least logically defensible
2) this does not mean that the six justices hate brown people
3) the behavior of six people does not represent the beliefs of 75 million people

Comparing gun ownership (a choice) to the amount of melanin in one’s skin/ethnicity (not a choice) is pretty ridiculous.

No bad faith here, my allegiance in this is to myself because I fit the “profile”.

So yeah, fuck anyone that thinks I deserve to be stopped/detained based simply on my ethnicity. There’s nothing “messy and grey” about that and if you think that fuck you too.

 

[Bluto]

Watching the descent into fascism is wild shit bro.

It really is.

I’m legit concerned about how I or some of my siblings might react if a couple of masked and unidentified goons tried to detain one of us because we happened to be at Home Depot.

Crazy watching people try to explain away allowing such abhorrent treatment of actual US citizens.

 

[sixstar]

Comparing gun ownership (a choice) to the amount of melanin in one’s skin/ethnicity (not a choice) is pretty ridiculous.

Strawman. I didn't compare the two. I said that in both cases, good citizens could get punished for the behavior of bad people. Read what I'm actually saying before responding.

So yeah, fuck anyone that thinks I deserve to be stopped/detained based simply on my ethnicity.

Nobody said that, including the supreme court.

There’s nothing “messy and grey” about that and if you think that fuck you too.

In reality, it's a nuanced situation. You just refuse to see the other side of it because you feel attacked.

Illegal immigrants are illegal, and by law, should be deported. If they want to be here, they can follow the lawful process, and there will be no problems. A majority of illegal immigrants that entered during the last admin are Latino, and California received more illegals than any other state. Those are indisputable facts.

So ICE is targeting California. It is a logical response.

I’m legit concerned about how I or some of my siblings might react if a couple of masked and unidentified goons tried to detain one of us because we happened to be at Home Depot.

Show them your ID and continue shopping.

Crazy watching people try to explain away allowing such abhorrent treatment of actual US citizens.

Nobody is advocating for abhorrent treatment of citizens. They are advocating for expedited deportation of illegals.

 

[ndfanatic78]

Strawman. I didn't compare the two. I said that in both cases, good citizens could get punished for the behavior of bad people. Read what I'm actually saying before responding.



Nobody said that, including the supreme court.



In reality, it's a nuanced situation. You just refuse to see the other side of it because you feel attacked.

Illegal immigrants are illegal, and by law, should be deported. If they want to be here, they can follow the lawful process, and there will be no problems. A majority of illegal immigrants that entered during the last admin are Latino, and California received more illegals than any other state. Those are indisputable facts.

So ICE is targeting California. It is a logical response.



Show them your ID and continue shopping.



Nobody is advocating for abhorrent treatment of citizens. They are advocating for expedited deportation of illegals.

I do not have to cary an ID and there are no laws requiring me too. I can t believe you are excusing this practice. No one has the right to illegally search someone without probable cause. Skin color and walking in public are not fucking probable cause. Lost a tone of respect for you Sixstar.

 

[sixstar]

I'm not advocating for it. I am explaining "the other side." I already said I have mixed feelings; I said I see both sides of it. Y'all need to stop putting words in my mouth.

I also think it's hyperbolic to think ICE will target any Latino in general.

ICE policy under 8 U.S.C. § 1357 still explicitly requires reasonable suspicion, based on specific, articulable facts suggesting an immigration violation. This has not changed. And again, that is an inarguable fact.

The stay does not change ICE’s policy obligation to adhere to reasonable suspicion, but it permits the challenged patrols to continue. If you are going to be outraged, you must look at the facts first.

 

[GowerND11]

Boiled frogs…

 

[SportsingHard]

BoTh SiDes. Whatever helps you sleep at night pedo defender.

Speaking of propaganda and being out of touch with reality, what do you think a pedo is, exactly?

 

[GATTACA!]

I do not have to cary an ID and there are no laws requiring me too. I can t believe you are excusing this practice. No one has the right to illegally search someone without probable cause. Skin color and walking in public are not fucking probable cause. Lost a tone of respect for you Sixstar.

You had respect for him to be lost? Lol

 

[GoIrish41]

Strawman. I didn't compare the two. I said that in both cases, good citizens could get punished for the behavior of bad people. Read what I'm actually saying before responding.



Nobody said that, including the supreme court.



In reality, it's a nuanced situation. You just refuse to see the other side of it because you feel attacked.

Illegal immigrants are illegal, and by law, should be deported. If they want to be here, they can follow the lawful process, and there will be no problems. A majority of illegal immigrants that entered during the last admin are Latino, and California received more illegals than any other state. Those are indisputable facts.

So ICE is targeting California. It is a logical response.



Show them your ID and continue shopping.



Nobody is advocating for abhorrent treatment of citizens. They are advocating for expedited deportation of illegals.

They are kicking in doors of apartment buildings and rounding up everyone in the middle of the night, binding them with zip ties and packing all the black people in one rented unmarked van and the Latinos in another. They are not asking for proof of citizenship and they aren’t deterred if it is presented.

Your obtuse eye roll of a personality not withstanding, for a dude who is sleeping in his bed in the middle of the night to be awoken by masked militants and detained for no other reason than he was home the nuance you claim is not apparent. It’s simple to brush aside hardships that don’t affect you. Not only is the fear in minority communities that the same can happen to them at any moment real, it is purposeful. If you don’t think that manufactured angst is justified, you are just stupid. But if you understand that it is by design and still support it, you are (and I’m being generous) knowingly supporting fascism and the trampling of rights guaranteed by the Constitution. I’ll let everyone else decide for themselves what that suggests about you, but you’ve made it easy for me.

 

[ndfanatic78]

I'm not advocating for it. I am explaining "the other side." I already said I have mixed feelings; I said I see both sides of it. Y'all need to stop putting words in my mouth.

I also think it's hyperbolic to think ICE will target any Latino in general.

ICE policy under 8 U.S.C. § 1357 still explicitly requires reasonable suspicion, based on specific, articulable facts suggesting an immigration violation. This has not changed. And again, that is an inarguable fact.

The stay does not change ICE’s policy obligation to adhere to reasonable suspicion, but it permits the challenged patrols to continue. If you are going to be outraged, you must look at the facts first.

You typed “show them your ID and keep shopping“ in sponse to someone’s example of how we are supposed to react to being assaulted by dudes in masks and without warrants. How else are we supposed to take that. I responded to that.

 

[sixstar]

They are kicking in doors of apartment buildings and rounding up everyone in the middle of the night, binding them with zip ties and packing all the black people in one rented unmarked van and the Latinos in another. They are not asking for proof of citizenship and they aren’t deterred if it is presented.

Yup, messy like I said.

Chicago raid: 40-60 detained, 37 confirmed illegal.
LA raids: ~5200 detained, 4163 confirmed illegal.

~75-80% of detainees are guilty. Which means 20-25% are innocent. Messy. But there is no perfect solution.

These raids have been effective at detaining illegals, but innocent civilians are also getting targeted, mostly due to proximity. Gray, like I said.

But many of the people complaining about this also supported policies that let these illegals into the US in the first place

Actions have consequences.

It’s simple to brush aside hardships that don’t affect you.

Exactly like you did with the shot mandates. Pot, kettle.

Not only is the fear in minority communities that the same can happen to them at any moment real, it is purposeful. If you don’t think that manufactured angst is justified, you are just stupid.

Toronto says that as long as they can return to normal that the temporary inconvenience doesn't matter. So, you disagree with him then?

But if you understand that it is by design and still support it, you are (and I’m being generous) knowingly supporting fascism and the trampling of rights guaranteed by the Constitution. I’ll let everyone else decide for themselves what that suggests about you, but you’ve made it easy for me.

Didn't see you complain when constitutional rights were violated during COVID. What does that say about you?

You typed “show them your ID and keep shopping“ in sponse to someone’s example of how we are supposed to react to being assaulted by dudes in masks and without warrants. How else are we supposed to take that. I responded to that.

Because it is a fully fictitious and hyperbolic example that ICE would assault bluto without reasonable suspicion while shopping at Home Depot.

Even when conducting mass raids, they were still at least 75% accurate. In what world would they specifically target a US citizen shopping with his family, if this citizen is not affiliated with illegals, in proximity to illegals, or reasonably suspicious of illegal entry?

 

[GATTACA!]

Yup, messy like I said.

Chicago raid: 40-60 detained, 37 confirmed illegal.
LA raids: ~5200 detained, 4163 confirmed illegal.

~75-80% of detainees are guilty. Which means 20-25% are innocent. Messy. But there is no perfect solution.

These raids have been effective at detaining illegals, but innocent civilians are also getting targeted, mostly due to proximity. Gray, like I said.

But many of the people complaining about this also supported policies that let these illegals into the US in the first place

Actions have consequences.



Exactly like you did with the shot mandates. Pot, kettle.



Toronto says that as long as they can return to normal that the temporary inconvenience doesn't matter. So, you disagree with him then?



Didn't see you complain when constitutional rights were violated during COVID. What does that say about you?



Because it is a fully fictitious and hyperbolic example that ICE would assault bluto without reasonable suspicion while shopping at Home Depot.

Even when conducting mass raids, they were still at least 75% accurate. In what world would they specifically target a US citizen shopping with his family, if this citizen is not affiliated with illegals?

“Proximity”

 

[GoIrish41]

Yup, messy like I said.

Chicago raid: 40-60 detained, 37 confirmed illegal.
LA raids: ~5200 detained, 4163 confirmed illegal.

~75-80% of detainees are guilty. Which means 20-25% are innocent. Messy. But there is no perfect solution.

These raids have been effective at detaining illegals, but innocent civilians are also getting targeted, mostly due to proximity. Gray, like I said.

But many of the people complaining about this also supported policies that let these illegals into the US in the first place

Actions have consequences.



Exactly like you did with the shot mandates. Pot, kettle.



Toronto says that as long as they can return to normal that the temporary inconvenience doesn't matter. So, you disagree with him then?



Didn't see you complain when constitutional rights were violated during COVID. What does that say about you?



Because it is a fully fictitious and hyperbolic example that ICE would assault bluto without reasonable suspicion while shopping at Home Depot.

Even when conducting mass raids, they were still at least 75% accurate. In what world would they specifically target a US citizen shopping with his family, if this citizen is not affiliated with illegals?

You say “messy” I say unconstitutional, immoral and a giant step toward white nationalist authoritarianism. I’m sure I’m at least 75% right when I call you a Nazi douche.

 

[sixstar]

You say “messy” I say unconstitutional, immoral and a giant step toward white nationalist authoritarianism. I’m sure I’m at least 75% right when I call you a Nazi douche.

I agree that facts cannot argue with feelings. Which are you providing?

Funny thing is that I have never once advocated any form of government overreach on this forum, but you are so conditioned to call anyone you disagree with a Nazi that it's become a natural response to you. Some introspection would do you well.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

It really is.

I’m legit concerned about how I or some of my siblings might react if a couple of masked and unidentified goons tried to detain one of us because we happened to be at Home Depot.

Crazy watching people try to explain away allowing such abhorrent treatment of actual US citizens.

I have several mixed race family members and they are terrified.