Coronavirus

Legacy

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IRA stands for Individual Retirement Account. They were never meant to be a method in which to accumulate wealth and then to be passed on to future generations. Rather, they were established to help individuals, who worked for companies that did not offer a company sponsored pension, save for retirement. Basically IRA's were suppose to be a self funded pension plan. Of course what they have became in some instances is a pseudo tax shelter for higher income employees. Further, the average IRA balance for individuals between the ages of 45-65 is roughly $150,000. I don't think that many individuals will actually be affected by the elimination of the "stretch" provision of the law. Given that only the wealthy individuals will really be impacted I am a little surprised that you seem against this.

I'm sure you are aware of Inherited IRAs with their now defunct stretch RMDs. The Secure Act has some redeeming features like deferring RMDs on traditional IRAs to 72. I don't know how many people are impacted or what the balance in those Inherited IRAs amount to, but enough stats were available for Congress to estimate it would raise $15 billion to offset the tax credits, etc. Raising the exemption from the estate tax to $11 million assists in passing along assets to your heirs. I imagine the fiscally irresponsible Congress would love to get rid of Roths for the tax income to spend on whatever.

Thank you for the detail and my original estimate was a little off. Based on the numbers it looks like $5.7 billion of the amount appropriated has no direct impact on combating the virus. So Trump's original request of a little over $2 billion was actually pretty accurate.

Sure. Let me know which area of the $5.7 B you think is unnecessary and why.

As for vaccine development which would have mitigated economic losses, a couple of articles I found insightful.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/10/fluctuating-funding-and-flagging-interest-hurt-coronavirus-research/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091

But those types of grant funding for vaccine research may well "have no direct impact on combating the virus". The adage "penny wise and pound foolish" may be appropriate. I do not know if, after their bill, Congress is funding these public health programs at the level prior to recent cuts.

This would seem to be an excellent example for a President to use his Emergency powers to free up funding from Homeland Security/Defense Department, if Congress had not acted.
 
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Irish YJ

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Sure. Let me know which area of the $5.7 B you think is unnecessary and why.

As for vaccine development which would have mitigated economic losses, a couple of articles I found insightful.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/10/fluctuating-funding-and-flagging-interest-hurt-coronavirus-research/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091

But those types of grant funding for vaccine research may well "have no direct impact on combating the virus". The adage "penny wise and pound foolish" may be appropriate. I do not know if, after their bill, Congress is funding these public health programs at the level prior to recent cuts.

This would seem to be an excellent example for a President to use his Emergency powers to free up funding from Homeland Security/Defense Department, if Congress had not acted.

For one, 3.1B on stock piles is unrelated to the current situation. If you want to increase the stockpiles, don't use this crisis to tack on 3.1B. Vote on it separately or include it in a budget. Ontario, who stockpiled a ton during the SARS outbreak, are now throwing 55M masks and other things out because they expired, and have been paying 3M/year just for storage. The international aide is also highly questionable as being relevant to American need. And much of what looks relevant may be totally unneeded as many industries are already working on the solution.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-expired-before-coronavirus-hit-idUSKBN20W2OG
 

BGIF

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This No Drill

This No Drill

Take this seriously. Coronavirus is about to change your life for a while

Zach Wolf
Analysis by Zachary B. Wolf, CNN
Updated 6:39 AM ET, Wed March 11, 2020

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/11/politics/what-matters-coronavirus-is-about-to-change-your-life/index.html


(CNN) — If you thought coronavirus was no big deal or if you thought it was going to go away, wake up.

Your life is about to change.


Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, issued a disturbing warning during a White House briefing Tuesday: Americans everywhere need to change the way they live their lives. Right now.

"We would like the country to realize that as a nation, we can't be doing the kinds of things we were doing a few months ago. It doesn't matter if you're in a state that has no cases or one case," Fauci said, referring Americans to the new federal Coronavirus.gov website for details on precautions to take at home, at work and out in the world.

"If and when the infections will come -- and they will come, sorry to say, sad to say -- when you're dealing with an infectious disease... we want to be where the infection is going to be, as well as where it is," Fauci said.

"Everybody should say, 'All hands on deck,'" he added.

He's not alone in saying that this is the moment to contain coronavirus. We are at an inflection point, according to Thomas Bossert, a former homeland security adviser to President Donald Trump, writing in The Washington Post. It's worth reading his entire piece, but the key point is this:
"Officials must pull the trigger on aggressive interventions. Time matters. Two weeks of delay can mean the difference between success and failure. Public health experts learned this in 1918 when the Spanish flu killed 50 million to 100 million people around the globe. If we fail to take action, we will watch our health-care system be overwhelmed."

He compared the lax early actions in Italy, which is now under national lockdown, with the more strict and invasive early actions in Singapore and Hong Kong. (Read this for a taste of what the first day of containment was like in Italy.)

Bossert also said Americans have to prepare to be out of their daily rhythms for weeks:

"How long? Epidemiologists suggest eight weeks might be needed to arrest this outbreak. Administrators, students, teachers and parents need to get busy figuring out how to continue the education of our children while contributing to this community-wide public health effort."

States of emergency -- The suburb of New Rochelle, New York, is under containment, with National Guard called in to help deliver food to residents. At least 18 governors had declared states of emergency as of Tuesday evening. I wrote about what a "state of emergency" actually means. Read it.
School closures -- At the White House briefing, Fauci said a nationwide school ban isn't appropriate at this point. This is a massive country. Rather, we need to look where the outbreak is going and pre-emptively target closures there.


Government help -- Vice President Mike Pence assured Americans the President would put the full weight of the government behind fighting the outbreak. Pence said people who feel sick shouldn't feel like they have to work or risk their paychecks.

Administration officials are also pushing a payroll tax holiday to put more money in people's pockets. That's assuming they keep their jobs.
But after Trump made a rare trip to Capitol Hill on Tuesday to meet with Senate Republicans, it's clear they're a long way from striking a deal on a package. CNN's congressional team reports the state of play here:
After the hour-long meeting in the Capitol, where the conversation included proposals of payroll tax holidays for workers, targeted relief for hard-hit industries -- like airlines, cruise ships, restaurants and retail -- tax cuts to help small businesses better afford sick leave for their workers and other proposals, some GOP senators remained skeptical about quickly passing an expensive stimulus package.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said afterward that Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, would have "ball control" on negotiations that could take place in the coming weeks and that Senate Republicans would defer to them to see if they could cut a deal.

Bottom line: This is so much bigger than partisanship, or how anyone feels about Trump or Washington.

Trump skipped Tuesday's White House briefing, but tweeted at the same time about low US unemployment and dinging Democrats over climate policy. Earlier in the day, he retweeted coronavirus safety precautions posted to Pence's account. Until recently, the President said coronavirus was under control.

Even Fox News personalities are split -- which is saying something -- on how seriously to take this threat. Tucker Carlson seemed to give a measured plea for officials to take it seriously. But Trish Regan of Fox Business dismissed the entire outbreak as an attempt by Democrats to undo Trump. Seriously. That's how ingrained conspiracy theories have become.

Rising deaths worldwide


The worldwide death toll has surpassed 4,200, still mostly in China.
But at least 168 coronavirus patients died in Italy in the past day, a sharp rise.

US cases -- There are more than 1,000 cases of the novel coronavirus in the United States, according to the state and local health agencies, governments and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
According to the CDC, there are 70 cases from repatriated citizens from Wuhan, the Diamond Princess and the Grand Princess. According to CNN Health's tally of US cases that are detected and tested in the United States through US public health systems, there are cases in 37 states and the District of Columbia. Thirty-one people have died.

That's a fraction of the population. But this is far from over.

Everyday life is changing


Ground zero in Washington state -- The most deadly coronavirus outbreak site in the US is the Life Care Center nursing home in King County. Another patient who had been there died Tuesday, bringing the total to 19 from that site alone. It's still not clear how that outbreak started.

Employees have now been tested at the site after a long delay when only patients were screened.
Just determining who has the virus has been a struggle. In California, new commercial labs manufacturing testing kits are coming online, joining facilities in 18 states.

Closed schools -- There are growing numbers of school closures in affected areas. But there's no clear consideration being given to what happens in terms of child care if large-scale school closures occur. There's also no concerted movement toward help for hourly and low-wage employees -- the people who take care of our sick, who clean our public spaces and who keep store shelves stocked and deliveries running.

Where the virus spreads -- A church in Washington, DC, a Walmart in Kentucky, a gathering of conservatives, people who encountered a lawyer in New York, a cruise ship, travelers from Asia.
Infected people work for Barclays. The New York Port Authority. There's a New York City medic whose girlfriend is a flight attendant. (Note: CDC says you aren't likely to get it simply from recirculated air in a plane.)

Happening around the US -- Here are just a few specific effects, taken at random from around the country. A one-square-mile area will have all schools and facilities closed in Westchester County, New York (a circle drawn around the synagogue attended by the lawyer who was patient zero there). Closed libraries in Rancho Mirage, California. Banned large gatherings in Santa Clara County, California. Closed schools in Elk Grove, outside Sacramento. A staff member's spouse potentially having it shuttered all schools in one Long Island district for a day.

You don't realize how many people you come into contact with until you think about it.

So much of the US economy is built on services. Will we reach a place where restaurants are closed? They've been restricted in Italy. So many American workers depend on being in the same place as other people. Already travel and hotel industries are suffering.
Silver linings -- There are deals to be had. But if you're at risk, travel may not be a good idea.
Costco is doing well! It's limiting water sales in some places. Shelves are empty because of panicked preppers.

Markets rebounded after massive drops Monday.
Politics is still happening -- The 2020 campaign is about to change because of coronavirus. Both Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders canceled rallies scheduled for Tuesday night. And CNN's upcoming debate in Arizona won't have a live audience.
 

Legacy

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Trump at appearances and posted by the White House briefly statements has emphasized the importance of telehealth, especially for reaching the elderly. He also states the Admin is working closely with South Korea to provide funding and equipment to fight their coronavirus outbreak.

The Admin has also stressed how they are working closely with state and local officials to provide funding and test kits. He says there will be four million test kits distributed by the end of the week. He stressed how successful they have worked with California officials for meeting their needs.
 

MJ12666

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I'm sure you are aware of Inherited IRAs with their now defunct stretch RMDs. The Secure Act has some redeeming features like deferring RMDs on traditional IRAs to 72. I don't know how many people are impacted or what the balance in those Inherited IRAs amount to, but enough stats were available for Congress to estimate it would raise $15 billion to offset the tax credits, etc. Raising the exemption from the estate tax to $11 million assists in passing along assets to your heirs. I imagine the fiscally irresponsible Congress would love to get rid of Roths for the tax income to spend on whatever.



Sure. Let me know which area of the $5.7 B you think is unnecessary and why.

As for vaccine development which would have mitigated economic losses, a couple of articles I found insightful.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/10/fluctuating-funding-and-flagging-interest-hurt-coronavirus-research/

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091

But those types of grant funding for vaccine research may well "have no direct impact on combating the virus". The adage "penny wise and pound foolish" may be appropriate. I do not know if, after their bill, Congress is funding these public health programs at the level prior to recent cuts.

This would seem to be an excellent example for a President to use his Emergency powers to free up funding from Homeland Security/Defense Department, if Congress had not acted.

The following items are wastefully spending as the spending will have -0- impact in controlling the outbreak or treatment of infected individuals:

$826 million for developing coronavirus vaccines, treatments and tests. FDA is set to receive $61 million to speed review of those new therapies and handle potential drug and device shortages. Three reasons: A) at least 10 companies are currently working on a developing a vaccine without any government aid. B) It will take at a minimum of over a year before a vaccine can be developed and more importantly be tested before it can be used. C) a vaccine is not used to treat anyone who is infected .

— $300 million to purchase vaccines and treatments once they’re approved. The language is a win for Republicans and the drug industry, which had balked at Democrats’ initial demand for penalizing drug makers if their medication prices are deemed too high. See three reasons listed above.

— $950 million in grants to states and localities. The legislation mandates that half that sum be paid out within 30 days — a bid to alleviate the stress on front-line health departments. This is probably okay.

— $3.1 billion in part to buy medical supplies. Congress wants to beef up the Strategic National Stockpile, which represents the nation’s largest repository of emergency treatments, and other resources for vaccine development and hospital preparedness. Big waste and will have absolutely ZERO impact on dealing with the outbreak.

- Community health centers on the front lines of the social safety net would get $100 million just as their funding is set to expire at the end of May. Probably okay.

- Another $10 million would go to the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences to put together trainings for health care workers on the front lines of the outbreak to avoid becoming infected. Waste. Cannot believe that healthcare workers who have been dealing with the flu for years do not know what to do. But $10 million is not even a rounding error though.

- $500 million in Medicare telehealth funding. Absolute waste. This is already functioning as I have used it for my mom so I have not idea what the $500M will be used for.

These items may be related to funding for public health responses for outbreaks outside our borders.

- The legislation includes $300 million to continue the CDC’s programs to detect and respond to international disease outbreaks, and $435 million for global health programs at the State Department Waste, we have constantly been told that the US healthcare system is the worst in the world so we should be getting foreign aid not giving it out.

- State’s international disaster assistance fund would get $300 million to provide humanitarian aid and address health needs in countries where the coronavirus is spreading. Waste – see comment for previous item.
 
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Legacy

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Hopefully, a brief response, MJ.

As far as the coronavirus threat, healthcare workers with direct patient contact have for years been required to get a flu vaccine.

You may have heard of Herd immunity. When over 90% of a community - or subset - is immunized against a contagious organism, the chances of its spread is greatly diminished. Some populations like those do not get a vaccine like the uninsured, those with contraindications, homeless, those children in containment facilities at the border, etc. are populations that viruses can spread quickly in their groups.

The usual masks you can buy in stores and that people wear are useless against a virus, which is a small particle that easily penetrates the relatively large holes in it. Specialized masks - n95s - need to be used by providers if they have not been vaccinated. Without a diagnosis, staff and individuals may be in direct contact with people infected and not wearing the appropriate masks.

The costs of n95s has skyrocketed without any cost controls, which the Dems wanted. There's a shortage. Without those and any medical supplies in storage, HC staff are susceptible to the disease and can communicate it to others. They may have a milder case, but the patients they come in contact with may well have conditions or immune statuses that put them at risk for a more severe disease.

Viruses have different strains which is why the flu vaccine differs yearly. COVID 19 differs from other coronaviruses like SARS and MERS. All are pulmonary infections, leading to easy transmission.

So, the difference in containing COVID 19 includes lack of testing, which leads to lack of diagnosis, no herd immunity, lack of proper personal equipment, and ease of communication with this virus. COVID 19 also progresses to severe symptoms much more rapidly than the flu.

Not exactly brief.
 
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Irish#1

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Not sure why this topic is in the political threads, but it needs to be merged with the other Corona thread. Cleanup in aisle 3!
 

MJ12666

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Hopefully, a brief response, MJ.

As far as the coronavirus threat, healthcare workers with direct patient contact have for years been required to get a flu vaccine.

You may have heard of Herd immunity. When over 90% of a community - or subset - is immunized against a contagious organism, the chances of its spread is greatly diminished. Some populations like those do not get a vaccine like the uninsured, those with contraindications, homeless, those children in containment facilities at the border, etc. are populations that viruses can spread quickly in their groups.

The usual masks you can buy in stores and that people wear are useless against a virus, which is a small particle that easily penetrates the relatively large holes in it. Specialized masks - n95s - need to be used by providers if they have not been vaccinated. Without a diagnosis, staff and individuals may be in direct contact with people infected and not wearing the appropriate masks.

The costs of n95s has skyrocketed without any cost controls, which the Dems wanted. There's a shortage. Without those and any medical supplies in storage, HC staff are susceptible to the disease and can communicate it to others. They may have a milder case, but the patients they come in contact with may well have conditions or immune statuses that put them at risk for a more severe disease.

Viruses have different strains which is why the flu vaccine differs yearly. COVID 19 differs from other coronaviruses like SARS and MERS. All are pulmonary infections, leading to easy transmission.

So, the difference in containing COVID 19 includes lack of testing, which leads to lack of diagnosis, no herd immunity, lack of proper personal equipment, and ease of communication with this virus. COVID 19 also progresses to severe symptoms much more rapidly than the flu.

Not exactly brief.

And what does any of the above got to do with the the waist that I identified in the recent bill passed by Congress?
 

Legacy

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Serious question? See last paragraph.

From your citation and assertion onvaccine development:
A) at least 10 companies are currently working on a developing a vaccine without any government aid.

In the U.S., the companies that are initiating development have received funding from two organizations: the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), which is a division of the Department of Health and Human Services, and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), a division of the National Institutes of Health. Some companies have received funding from Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), a global organization based in Oslo. Other companies are funding trials by themselves or through partnerships with other life sciences companies.

Clinical trials:

1. On Feb. 21, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID)started enrolling patients in a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase 3 trial evaluating 394 hospitalized patients with COVID-19 at up to 50 sites worldwide. The trial is expected to conclude April 1, 2023. Sites include the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Md., (not recruiting), the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha (recruiting), the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston (not recruiting), and Providence Sacred Heart Medical Center in Spokane (recruiting).

Background: On Jan. 23, Moderna received funding from CEPI to develop an mRNA vaccine against COVID-19. On Feb. 24, it said it had shipped the first batch of mRNA-1273 to the NIAID for a Phase 1 clinical trial in the U.S.

Clinical trials: On Feb. 21, the NIAID said it would begin enrolling 45 healthy adult patients in an open-label Phase I clinical trial at one location to test mRNA-1273 as a vaccine for COVID-19 on March 19. The trial is expected to conclude June 1, 2021. Participants will be followed for one year. The trial will be conducted at Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute in Seattle.

Other fed government funding examples:

The NIH said it had initiated a trial of Gilead’s remdesivir for treating COVID-19 at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, sponsored by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. The trial is a randomized, placebo-controlled Phase II study with an enrollment target of 394 patients.

U.S. Army Medical Research and Development Command has signed an arrangement with Gilead Sciences to provide the company’s investigational coronavirus drug to U.S. troops confirmed to have the COVID-19 virus.

NIAID’s Multi-Pronged Response to the COVID-2019 Outbreak

I'll accept you define it as waste and respect your opinion.
 
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Irish YJ

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WTF... more pork.
F these people


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Democrats believe <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/coronavirus?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#coronavirus</a> can be cured by providing $35 million in funding to the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. <a href="https://t.co/i26vSzhiYU">pic.twitter.com/i26vSzhiYU</a></p>— toddstarnes (@toddstarnes) <a href="https://twitter.com/toddstarnes/status/1242265623243165697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

317Irish

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Trump has another beautiful press conference going. Touched on all of the important topics: his recent poll numbers, the FACT that things wouldn’t be so bad here if it weren’t for the Democratic witch-hunt, and the reminder that the government is doing huge numbers in terms of supplies. So big that the American public wouldn’t even understand how big. Then he perfectly transitioned it over to Pence to discuss boring solutions and preventative measures. That’s when I fell asleep of course. Hoping Don comes back to remind us how unfair he has been treated... it’s just what America needs to hear right now. My hero. Teardrop.
 

Irish YJ

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Trump has another beautiful press conference going. Touched on all of the important topics: his recent poll numbers, the FACT that things wouldn’t be so bad here if it weren’t for the Democratic witch-hunt, and the reminder that the government is doing huge numbers in terms of supplies. So big that the American public wouldn’t even understand how big. Then he perfectly transitioned it over to Pence to discuss boring solutions and preventative measures. That’s when I fell asleep of course. Hoping Don comes back to remind us how unfair he has been treated... it’s just what America needs to hear right now. My hero. Teardrop.

I'm sure you'd feel much more comfortable hearing from Pelosi about the dire and life saving aid being delivered to the Kennedy Center (who just fired their orchestra), or you might prefer Biden's clarity.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">When asked if the cure was worse than the problem Biden responded,<br><br>“We have to take care of the cure, that will make the problem worse no matter what”<br><br>Totally coherent<br><br> <a href="https://t.co/ugTbxSLbUV">pic.twitter.com/ugTbxSLbUV</a></p>— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) <a href="https://twitter.com/RyanGirdusky/status/1242475134717513730?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ACamp1900

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WTF... more pork.
F these people


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Democrats believe <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/coronavirus?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#coronavirus</a> can be cured by providing $35 million in funding to the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts. <a href="https://t.co/i26vSzhiYU">pic.twitter.com/i26vSzhiYU</a></p>— toddstarnes (@toddstarnes) <a href="https://twitter.com/toddstarnes/status/1242265623243165697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 24, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And then apparently the center laid everyone off anyway lol
 

Irish YJ

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And then apparently the center laid everyone off anyway lol

Yup. It was disgraceful enough what Pelosi did, and then to see them do that was so f'ing rich and true to form of that group.... How anyone can defend, or simply accept it, is beyond twilight zone. But hey, let's focus on Orange Man Bad.

Pelosi is now in the process of starting up a "Covid Oversight Committee" even though Congress is out... Letting those clowns oversee anything right now is hilarious.

If you have time, this is a good read.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-media-change-tune-trump-attacks-coronavirus-china-travel-ban
 

Woneone

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The sheer amount of hindsight absolutes is staggering in the media.

I could find examples, feel free to google "Dr. Drew Coronavirus" for a fun example, but politics has literally taken a pandemic + Internet History and shows what fools some people are, or maybe more specifically, how much of a sheep society we really are just following those who are our "betters".

As an example, Legacy, a while back I responded to one of your posts stating that the consensus for asymptomatic spreading was divided. Since then, it is more a more likely, according to the scientific community, that that's likely. That's great. Not that I was wrong in questioning it, but that more information has come to light proposing it is likely, if not a certainty.

I don't find a problem with this, but maybe I'm wrong. Legacy said something, I didn't think it was certain, future discoveries made his post more probable. So is the way of the information age.

Tie this back to Today? If you find a reporter that was anti-Trump, they KNEW back (somehow) in January that this was a problem. That this was a pandemic. Sure, maybe they said the flu was worse February 12th. But today, oh no. It's always been something Trump screwed up. I'm sure some will find examples to counter this. And I feel certain that I can find 3 for every 1 (at the very least) to prove my point.

I'm not saying Trump doesn't have blood in the game. Fact is, Trump is a showman, and in this case, he looks like an ass. Saying it would go away? You have to hedge your bets. Say you don't "Think" it's a crisis. That you don't "think" it's a big deal. Don't deal in the same absolutes that the media does now.

Everything else? I think the media needs a PERSON to place the blame on, instead of the entire government complex. Because, if it's everyone, how do you convince that the government is the panacea for all that ails? CDC develops their own shitty tests? Trump. FDA bureaucracy? Trump. Globalization of the supply chain? Damn it Trump. Cuts to CDC (I saw an article Legacy posted, which was a bit misleading as I believe one position was cut, and before Kushner was leaned on the responsibilities were absorbed by other committee members per WaPost). You suck Trump. WHO/China numbers leading to bad estimates? GOP hates America.

There are some debatable aspects, but for the most part, Trump didn't "break" anything, he just didn't fix it.
 

Irish YJ

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The sheer amount of hindsight absolutes is staggering in the media.

I could find examples, feel free to google "Dr. Drew Coronavirus" for a fun example, but politics has literally taken a pandemic + Internet History and shows what fools some people are, or maybe more specifically, how much of a sheep society we really are just following those who are our "betters".

As an example, Legacy, a while back I responded to one of your posts stating that the consensus for asymptomatic spreading was divided. Since then, it is more a more likely, according to the scientific community, that that's likely. That's great. Not that I was wrong in questioning it, but that more information has come to light proposing it is likely, if not a certainty.

I don't find a problem with this, but maybe I'm wrong. Legacy said something, I didn't think it was certain, future discoveries made his post more probable. So is the way of the information age.

Tie this back to Today? If you find a reporter that was anti-Trump, they KNEW back (somehow) in January that this was a problem. That this was a pandemic. Sure, maybe they said the flu was worse February 12th. But today, oh no. It's always been something Trump screwed up. I'm sure some will find examples to counter this. And I feel certain that I can find 3 for every 1 (at the very least) to prove my point.

I'm not saying Trump doesn't have blood in the game. Fact is, Trump is a showman, and in this case, he looks like an ass. Saying it would go away? You have to hedge your bets. Say you don't "Think" it's a crisis. That you don't "think" it's a big deal. Don't deal in the same absolutes that the media does now.

Everything else? I think the media needs a PERSON to place the blame on, instead of the entire government complex. Because, if it's everyone, how do you convince that the government is the panacea for all that ails? CDC develops their own shitty tests? Trump. FDA bureaucracy? Trump. Globalization of the supply chain? Damn it Trump. Cuts to CDC (I saw an article Legacy posted, which was a bit misleading as I believe one position was cut, and before Kushner was leaned on the responsibilities were absorbed by other committee members per WaPost). You suck Trump. WHO/China numbers leading to bad estimates? GOP hates America.

There are some debatable aspects, but for the most part, Trump didn't "break" anything, he just didn't fix it.

I just did a rewind of several folks including Pelosi, Dumb Blazio, Cuomo, Morning Joe, and more showing not so smart comments post January. The partisan blame game is absolutely hilarious.
 

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Maybe we could get the Clinton foundation to chip in a few bucks for the fight in New York. I mean they did save Haiti, right?
 

Irish YJ

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Maybe we could get the Clinton foundation to chip in a few bucks for the fight in New York. I mean they did save Haiti, right?

0%2B1%2Ba%2Baaaaaaaaaaaaaclooo.png
 

Legacy

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UPDATE: Judge denies GOP’s request for temporary restraining order over cancelled convention
The Republican Party of Texas filed a lawsuit against Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner and others involved in the cancelation of the party’s in-person convention that was slated to take place next week at the George R. Brown Convention Center. This is the second lawsuit filed against Turner for the same reason.

Jacksonville is now requiring RNC attendees to wear facemasks. Lawsuit to stop the convention there has been filed.
 

Circa

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Ok,so I see the people that want to disregard everything i say as just bully material. YES, What I have encountered Is a bullying type of attitude.

Heaven Forbid Circa post something I don't agree with, He Is a moron. Because the mainstream media always tells the truth some of the time.

WHAT Ever.


I'll start with Nancy Pelosi's husband getting a PPP check that her constituents Right and Left allowed. NANCY PELOSI Is worth over 100 million dollars.

Thank God for all! of the NANCY's/Karens.... of the world.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BBQ6ihQPsDU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


BTW. I'm not looking up Nancy and her hubby's Net worth. That's easy enough for everyone.
 
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Legacy

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Since this post has some political overtones....

DeSantis, who followed Trump's lead in reopening Florida's economy and gathering places, is now being criticized by the White House as polls of Florida's residents come out. Tuesday DeSantis said Florida is "going in the right direction" and “We continue to monitor hospital bed availability & Florida is in good shape,” Hours before the state reported its highest-ever coronavirus hospitalization increase.

Hours later, Trump said “Florida is in a little tough, or a big tough, position.”
According to data from Johns Hopkins University, Florida is clearly the U.S. coronavirus epicenter and has been for weeks, averaging over 10,000 new cases a day through much of July, including a national record high of 15,300 new cases on July 12.

Any cover from the WH is vanishing. Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway followed the president’s blunt assessment with her own criticism on Wednesday of states that have become hotspots, saying some businesses — specifically nightlife — opened too soon and contributed to the surge in infections.

“They opened up some of the industries too quickly, like bars. The governors wanted complete latitude over when they would open their states, they pushed back heavily ... Republicans and Democrats, when it was falsely rumored that the president was going to be in charge of opening the states.”

Latest Quinnipiac Poll Shows DeSantis Approval at New Low, Widespread Support for Masks in Florida
(July 23, 2020)

Trump said on June 5 as far as the better than expected jobs numbers:
“Look at what’s going on in Florida, it’s incredible. If you look at so many different places that have opened up ... the ones that are most energetic about opening they are doing tremendous business and this is what these numbers are all about.”

A week prior on a trip to Tampa, Florida, Pence said:
“I want to thank you for your efforts to open up Florida again ... Florida being an economic engine for the United States, played a key role. I also want to say, Governor, that we fully support your prudent steps in working to slow the spread and the rise in cases that are impacting Florida today."

"Fully support" can be fleeting. "Prudent measures" can be criticized in hindsight.
 
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