Chris "Belt To" Ash - Defensive Coordinator

[greyhammer90]

Only thing I really want to better understand is why there has been so much emphasis on "getting pressure with four". I'd like to think that was an Ash brainfart, but it was clearly an emphasis for Freeman based on how many times he brought it up in press conferences before the season started. We were always a heavy blitzing team under Golden and Freeman historically values chaos on defense, so why the change in emphasis?

My guess is either 1) The staff greatly overestimated our DEs' ability to get home against OTs in one on one situations, or 2) The staff realized that there were serious problems with the secondary and wanted to not put anyone not named Leonard Moore on an island (and maybe a little of number 1 also in here). I wish someone on the beat would ask this question of Freeman as to what the mindset was.

 

[NDpendent]

If he is not fired by EOD I'm going to post a naughty word in this thread

Butt Ass

 

[greyhammer90]

Butt Ass

 

[Bluto]

Marcus gonna have to tell guys to start kneeling at the one so the defense can get a few more minutes to catch their breath

That’s essentially the first thought I had when Love scored that final TD against aTm. Anyhow, a peak Ken Niumatalolo team would be a huge problem. Not sure what Navy’s like this year.

 

[GoIrish41]

Only thing I really want to better understand is why there has been so much emphasis on "getting pressure with four". I'd like to think that was an Ash brainfart, but it was clearly an emphasis for Freeman based on how many times he brought it up in press conferences before the season started. We were always a heavy blitzing team under Golden and Freeman historically values chaos on defense, so why the change in emphasis?

My guess is either 1) The staff greatly overestimated our DEs' ability to get home against OTs in one on one situations, or 2) The staff realized that there were serious problems with the secondary and wanted to not put anyone not named Leonard Moore on an island (and maybe a little of number 1 also in here). I wish someone on the beat would ask this question of Freeman as to what the mindset was.

We don’t have the dudes to rush only four consistently. I don’t get it. We went from the best pass defense in the country to near the worst. ND is best on the attack, but they are playing passive and reactionary. Very disappointing.

 

[BrianWalsh]

To the best of my understanding, Luke Fickell has never coached a game of football as a DC, though he was co-DC at Ohio State and Ohio State only. He had two stretches there in that capacity, interrupted by 2011, when he was interim HC. I'm not inclined to look up stats for every season, but I do know Fickell's co-DC years were the late-Tressell, early-Urban era. In that time, from 2005 to 2016, the Ohio State program was elite every year except the year Fickell was in charge, when they were utter garbage, giving the most consistent program in CFB history an extremely rare losing season between Top 5 finishes the year before and after.

It's probably worth pointing out that Ohio State is (or was at the time) the easiest place in the country to dominate considering recruiting advantages relative to competition, so either Fickell or Ash should've been expected to field elite defenses there, but in Fickell's 12 years as co-DC or iHC at OSU, they only won the National Championship once, and that was the year Urban decided to bring in Chris Ash, who only had three years of experience as a DC, because obviously Urban saw something in him he liked very much. After winning the NC in 2014, Ash helped the defense improve in 2015.

Since then, Ash has coached only one season as a DC anywhere--in 2020 on one of Tom Herman's mediocre Texas teams. Subsequent NFL draft results suggest Ash had little to work with--three middle rounders in 2021 and nobody in 2022.

I may not be a fan of Chris Ash, but I am a fan of good analysis.

I am a fan of results

 

[SportsingHard]

I am a fan of results

Eight billion people are in favor of results they favor, but I'll try to remember you.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I am not going to breathe anger into this because it really isn't that important, so no sense making it more important than it needs to be. I honestly don't know if this gets turned around in the next 9 games and the hire was curious to begin with. We're now seeing early returns that it isn't going to work out, short or long term. That's where I'm leaving it. Hope for the best, but expect little to nothing.

I remind myself that these coaches and players are human. They also care about this more than we do and want to win more than we do. The losses from this defense from last year were going to be felt no matter who the DC was. It would, in addition to that, appear that there are some schematic deficiencies that are trying to get ironed out in real time.

I'm ultimately glad this team finally got a win because they deserve it and needed it. Onto the next.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

They also care about this more than we do and want to win more than we do.

Not possible, I would marry off my 6yr old daughter for a Natty! Kris Trash can't even be bothered to get a decent hair cut.

 

[NorthDakota]

Not possible, I would marry off my 6yr old daughter for a Natty! Kris Trash can't even be bothered to get a decent hair cut.

I can tell ive played too much Crusader Kings because my first thought upon seeing "marry off my 6yr old daughter" was "is she not already bethrothed?"

 

[IrishLax]

The relevant question isn't, "Has this defense sucked ass so far," but rather, "How much of the defensive suckage is attributable to Chris Ash sucking ass."

These stats tell me it's 90%+ on him. The bottom line is you don't go from #1 to outside the top 100 replacing one safety REGARDLESS of how awesome Xavier Watts is. They returned 3 out of 4 DBs.

Same thing with nickel... there are a million ways to play that position, including using linebackers and safeties. Bottom line is that everything he *has* tried has been a disaster.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

And despite all of the above, we are literally 2 plays away from being undefeated and top 2 in the country. That makes it even more infuriating actually.

 

[forkbeard3777]

These stats tell me it's 90%+ on him. The bottom line is you don't go from #1 to outside the top 100 replacing one safety REGARDLESS of how awesome Xavier Watts is. They returned 3 out of 4 DBs.

Same thing with nickel... there are a million ways to play that position, including using linebackers and safeties. Bottom line is that everything he *has* tried has been a disaster.

I'm not sure of the temperament of the ND beat reporters, but this needs to be directly pointed out to Freeman, Ash, and Mickens. What happened...what has changed in in the past few months to far that fall - especially given that you're returning 3/4 starters (one being a Freshman All American)? Everyone knows, but the hell with it, they are paid very, very, very well... call them out to the carpet...make them answer the tough questions.

 

[BilboBaggins]

And despite all of the above, we are literally 2 plays away from being undefeated and top 2 in the country. That makes it even more infuriating actually.

And you hate to play to a narrative... but if ND tarmac'd his ass in Arkansas, finished 10-2, and the defense played much better, there is an honest and serious argument to make about the early season losses and why the Irish should sneak into the playoff.

You simply do not go from #1 to #105 without the DC being launched into the surface of the sun, figuratively speaking.

 

[NorthDakota]

And you hate to play to a narrative... but if ND tarmac'd his ass in Arkansas, finished 10-2, and the defense played much better, there is an honest and serious argument to make about the early season losses and why the Irish should sneak into the playoff.

You simply do not go from #1 to #105 without the DC being launched into the surface of the sun, figuratively speaking.

If Notre Dame goes 10-2 I suspect the discussion isnt about sneaking in. Its about what seed ND will get. Winning ten games in a row after losing those particular games. But if ND doesn't get the defense sorted out, it won't matter because I would expect them to drop another game or two if the defense is actually this bad.

 

[Dale]

 

[NumbersGuy0520]

And you hate to play to a narrative... but if ND tarmac'd his ass in Arkansas, finished 10-2, and the defense played much better, there is an honest and serious argument to make about the early season losses and why the Irish should sneak into the playoff.

You simply do not go from #1 to #105 without the DC being launched into the surface of the sun, figuratively speaking.

This is where I’m at with the situation. I just don’t really see many negatives to cutting him loose and don’t really see many arguments for not doing so aside from just “serious teams don’t do it”.

Most serious teams are not in this position, so the sample of candidate teams that would even have to make the call immediately gets significantly shortened.
Of the serious teams with a bad coordinator, I’d venture many of them have at least some redeemable qualities. Maybe they were good in the past. Maybe recruits have committed and are excited to play for the guy. Maybe there’s belief he’ll turn it around, or there’s no one as good available right now (either on the market or in house).
And of the serious teams with a bad coordinator with none of the above, none of the dropoffs are this extreme.

Show that we’re serious and outwardly give someone else control.

 

[Dale]

 

[Dale]

 

[Dale]

 

[SportsingHard]

These stats tell me it's 90%+ on him. The bottom line is you don't go from #1 to outside the top 100 replacing one safety REGARDLESS of how awesome Xavier Watts is. They returned 3 out of 4 DBs.

Same thing with nickel... there are a million ways to play that position, including using linebackers and safeties. Bottom line is that everything he *has* tried has been a disaster.

Interesting. So you figure personnel accounts for 10% or less? Let's bring back Golden. You and I can play corner, and we'll grab nine other dudes from the board to round out the D.

 

[NDFAN420]

Butt Ass

Krissy is all like:

 

[NDFAN2008]

Driskell calling out Freeman saying play calling is the issue.

 

[KPENN]

Driskell calling out Freeman saying play calling is the issue.

Wow. What an observation

 

[Domina Nostra]

I think there is a difference between saying its just "play-calling" and actually creating and coaching a game plan to apply pressure to the opposing QB.

Not only do the play calls seem off, but the young defense does not look comfortable doing what it's being asked to do.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I find the comment "great things take time" to be the most intriguing. I've been wondering for awhile if the Ash hire was more about some particular aspect of his defensive philosophy that Freeman thought was missing to match up with the the ultra talented offenses. Maybe it was always meant to be temporary pain for long term gain. I'm grasping at straws at this point.

 

[SDIrishFan]

Driskell calling out Freeman saying play calling is the issue.

I don't know how any fan or media member can actually call out play calling because, you know, none of them actually know what the play call is. I mean, sure, you can make an educated guess when watching the film what it looks like is supposed to happen, but that assumes what you're seeing is executed correctly by the players. According to MMFF, that's not happening.

I think people are too often to jump to: bad play result = bad play call. That's not always the case.

That said, the defense is a mess and there's plenty of experience and talent out there for that not to be the case. So, something is clearly wrong.

 

[Free Manera]

Is it the playcalling, the way they are teaching the scheme, the lack of winning plays on the d line, the failure of the blitzes to get home, the responsibility confusion when playing zone, or the poor technique?

Yes.

 

[The Backer]

I think Freeman is right insofar as the overall cover 4 system Ash is teaching is fairly sound. These are 2 safety concepts NFL defenses are using to slowdown the most potent passing attacks in the game. This isn't a BVG or Tenuta situation where he's calling a fundamentally unsound defense (which BVG got away with thanks to the AA level play of Day and Smith). And the "playcalls" within the context of that scheme are reasonable.

The issues with ND running the cover 4 as of now are 1) it doesn't have the horses on the DL to win pass rushing snaps in the "rush 4" setup and 2) there's a lot of passing plays where the linebackers contribute nothing. Rewatch the last TD of the 1H and focus on Bowen. He's standing about 6 yards deep and has no effect on the play whatsoever. Contrast that to somebody like Tremaine Edmunds who plays great in zone and makes it challenging for pro QBs to make the layered throw between the LBs and DBs. You end up having to make the choice whether you let your LBs play aggressively and blitz heavy or swapping from Bowen to a guy like Faraimo who looked a lot more natural in coverage.

 

[thekid33]

MF says that he's not taking play-calling away from Ash. So, we better hope he figures something out. Quickly.