Chris "Belt To" Ash - Defensive Coordinator

[T-Boone]

the safety in the Toney TD might as well have been in the crowd. What is he supposed to do though, that seems like what can happen if you give the QB way too much time.

 

[tko]

Ash is a dead man walking. There is too much money on the line for Freeman to continue down this path.

 

[Irish#1]

the safety in the Toney TD might as well have been in the crowd. What is he supposed to do though, that seems like what can happen if you give the QB way too much time.

Reed had so much time, he could have had a bowl of Skyline before hitting his receivers.

 

[stlnd01]

Haha you mean Gino his QB coach at Cincy and Brown his receiver Coach at Cincy and you are picking out one instance most guys want to bring some of their position coaches with it just makes sense

Matt Patricia didn't bring anyone when he took the DC job at Ohio State this offseason, the whole rest of their defensive staff returned. I think was same when they hired Chip Kelly as OC the year before. Did anyone go with Tommy Rees when he went to Alabama?

For sure, sometimes coordinators like to bring along an assistant or two - Mike Elko is how we got Clark Lea - but it's by no means universal, and I doubt it was a big factor in why we hired Ash. Seems more like we just got outbid on Knowles and then settled on a guy who some of Freeman's Ohio State mentors recommended.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Ass better figure it out quick because if not USC is gonna light us up like a Christmas Tree.

 

[Irish#1]

Matt Patricia didn't bring anyone when he took the DC job at Ohio State this offseason, the whole rest of their defensive staff returned. I think was same when they hired Chip Kelly as OC the year before. Did anyone go with Tommy Rees when he went to Alabama?

For sure, sometimes coordinators like to bring along an assistant or two - Mike Elko is how we got Clark Lea - but it's by no means universal, and I doubt it was a big factor in why we hired Ash. Seems more like we just got outbid on Knowles and then settled on a guy who some of Freeman's Ohio State mentors recommended.

This is probably the reason he is here.

 

[NumbersGuy0520]

Ohio State knew we were going to be a problem and so they’re playing 4D chess here: “yeah, Chris Ash, great coordinator, you should hire him.”

 

[ThePiombino]

Three days later and I'm still so incredibly disappointed that BVG 2.0 is happening to this team. They deserve better. We deserve better. We're going to waste yet another (potentially) elite QB on a subpar defense.

 

[MacIrish75]

Three days later and I'm still so incredibly disappointed that BVG 2.0 is happening to this team. They deserve better. We deserve better. We're going to waste yet another (potentially) elite QB on a subpar defense.

I just think Marcus might not be very good at hiring and identifying talented coordinators. He’s hired 3 coordinators—5 if you count STC. Two have been disasters.

Obviously MF isn’t on any sort of hot seat—but I think how he handles Ash over the course of the next 3-4 months will be a harbinger for the rest of his tenure.

 

[NDWarrior]

Well BK had to learn, I can’t ALWAYS hire my friends and members of my long time coaching staff as an ND coach just because I know them and am comfortable with them. I need to make the best hire for the team. Despite not ever getting back to the Natty, his record did improve vastly and the team made it to the playoffs a few times.

 

[Irish2155]

Reed had so much time, he could have had a bowl of Skyline before hitting his receivers.

If that’s were the case, then he’d probably be hitting the huddle too with some nasty crop dusting.

 

[NDFAN2008]

Three days later and I'm still so incredibly disappointed that BVG 2.0 is happening to this team. They deserve better. We deserve better. We're going to waste yet another (potentially) elite QB on a subpar defense.

I don't think Ash is the right guy but I'm not putting all the blame on him. Getting Gray and Zackary to turn their hips properly isn't an Ash issue it's a Mickens issue, the lack of pass rush from the defense the blame has to start with Washington? Who was the last DE that got drafted high for ND Foskey? The lack of talent developing on the DL is concerning

 

[mrmcgrail]

So all of a sudden mickens doesn't know how to coach CB's? Like come on hahaha so benmo and Moore and hart just knew how to do it on their own? It's why last year Gray looked better than this year so far? When you change systems guys overthink and make mistakes. They are playing slow and guessing on things that they never did previously which I am assuming is because they are doing too much they have too much on their plate on reacting to what they see

 

[NDFAN2008]

So all of a sudden mickens doesn't know how to coach CB's? Like come on hahaha so benmo and Moore and hart just knew how to do it on their own? It's why last year Gray looked better than this year so far? When you change systems guys overthink and make mistakes. They are playing slow and guessing on things that they never did previously which I am assuming is because they are doing too much they have too much on their plate on reacting to what they see

I wouldn't say Gray looked better last year than this year, name me a game he looked good in last year where we played a team with good WR's? A&M didn't have shit for WR last year, he got torched against USC, Indiana torched us at the end and made a run, Penn State didn't have any good WR's, Georgia had like 3 drops where they had our guys beat wide open, and Ohio State torched him.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

I'll give you Al Washington as part of the blame but gtfoh with Mickens. I miss the days of Elston coached defensive lines.

 

[The Backer]

So all of a sudden mickens doesn't know how to coach CB's? Like come on hahaha so benmo and Moore and hart just knew how to do it on their own? It's why last year Gray looked better than this year so far? When you change systems guys overthink and make mistakes. They are playing slow and guessing on things that they never did previously which I am assuming is because they are doing too much they have too much on their plate on reacting to what they see

If you follow the Tengwall breakdown, it's clear that Gray and Hobbs are frequently playing with bad technique. Tae Johnson had some nice plays, but the depth of his drop is mysterious at times.

Freeman's ire in yesterday's presser was directed at all the coaches tolerating too much fundamentally poor play. That's on Ash AND Mickens. It's certainly possible that Golden was coaching around some of Mickens' weaknesses.

 

[Irishokie]

Reed had so much time, he could have had a bowl of Skyline before shitting his pants

FIFY

 

[NDFAN2008]

I'll give you Al Washington as part of the blame but gtfoh with Mickens. I miss the days of Elston coached defensive lines.

Whose job is it to make sure our guys turn their hips the correct way?

 

[PolishDomer]

Whose job is it to make sure our guys turn their hips the correct way?

Hire her as a consultant...her hips dont lie

 

[IrishLax]

So all of a sudden mickens doesn't know how to coach CB's? Like come on hahaha so benmo and Moore and hart just knew how to do it on their own? It's why last year Gray looked better than this year so far? When you change systems guys overthink and make mistakes. They are playing slow and guessing on things that they never did previously which I am assuming is because they are doing too much they have too much on their plate on reacting to what they see

Yup, it's one of the most fundamental principles of sports. If you are "thinking" too much then your fundamentals and instincts suffer. If you are confident and spend less time with your mind elsewhere, then it's easier to do the "little things" right.

 

[Free Manera]

So all of a sudden mickens doesn't know how to coach CB's? Like come on hahaha so benmo and Moore and hart just knew how to do it on their own? It's why last year Gray looked better than this year so far? When you change systems guys overthink and make mistakes. They are playing slow and guessing on things that they never did previously which I am assuming is because they are doing too much they have too much on their plate on reacting to what they see

I get what you're saying and agree with a lot of it. But to the bolded - I think Gray had inherent flaws that got exposed vs. USC and now he is very exploitable. He's gonna need safety help over the top against any WR that can run.

 

[Dale]

I don’t think Mickens forgot how to coach but I do think there is more than enough blame to go around and Freeman questioning technique in practice and you don’t look at the position coach is illogical. I also think 9 underclassmen 3 of which are being relied on is a large task and maybe the Sauce to Morrison to Moore hit rate continuing was a unrealistic

Moore had Morrison. Shuler had Watts. Maybe a sophomore and juniors as your leaders was a bigger task than we gave credit for.

 

[PutuporShutup]

So all of a sudden mickens doesn't know how to coach CB's? Like come on hahaha so benmo and Moore and hart just knew how to do it on their own? It's why last year Gray looked better than this year so far? When you change systems guys overthink and make mistakes. They are playing slow and guessing on things that they never did previously which I am assuming is because they are doing too much they have too much on their plate on reacting to what they see

I think ash is by far the biggest issue, it's not popular, but I think Mickens is a bit overrated ( i get it, not popular opinion).

he's been here since 2020, so 2021 was his first class of corners. Here are all of his recruits

2021
Riley - Bust
Barnes - Bust
Tucker - Bust
JoJo - Bust
Styles - Best corner on the team but played WR
2022
Mickey - maybe not a complete bust, but not a good impact on the field at ND
Bellamy - nothing at ND
BenMo - Stud, but I would argue his best year by far was his frosh year. I thought he got a little sloppy/lazy at times as he got older, and injuries jr year didn't help
2023
Gray - Showed big time promise as a true frosh and has degraded each year with more coaching under mickens
Bell - Bust at corner, playing RB now
2024
Leonard Moore - He's a stud, hit a home run, will probably have a great season, and miami may end up being one of his worst games of his career. I expect Moore to be the top ND corner in the NFL in a long long time. He walked in the door as NDs best corner without mickens coaching (give mickens credit for great eval though).
Hobbs - Don't see it, never have - won't call him a bust yet, but he's been a big reason why we're 0-2
2025 - TBD


So, he's recruited 2 studs his first 4 years that walked in and were the best corners on the team. There hasn't been a great track record of corners under him (AT ND) getting better each year and developing. Not BenMo IMO, Not Gray clearly, and I'd argue hart's best year was 2021 and he wasn't quite as good in 2022/2023. Hart is probably the only case you could make showing corner development year over year at ND.

I think mickens is a fine coach, but our secondary has been terrible against good passing teams the last 2 years. I also think it's telling we've had to hit the portal 3 years in a row now for a nickel corner. IMO because he's not developing the position good enough.

To finalize, ash is the bigger issue, but Mickens should NOT get a pass for how his secondary is playing.

 

[irishu]

That’s certainly a take.

Why don’t you point out some CB coaches with better hit rates in that same period of time? Let’s see if you can do your homework

 

[Dale]

I think ash is by far the biggest issue, it's not popular, but I think Mickens is a bit overrated ( i get it, not popular opinion).

he's been here since 2020, so 2021 was his first class of corners. Here are all of his recruits

2021
Riley - Bust
Barnes - Bust
Tucker - Bust
JoJo - Bust
Styles - Best corner on the team but played WR
2022
Mickey - maybe not a complete bust, but not a good impact on the field at ND
Bellamy - nothing at ND
BenMo - Stud, but I would argue his best year by far was his frosh year. I thought he got a little sloppy/lazy at times as he got older, and injuries jr year didn't help
2023
Gray - Showed big time promise as a true frosh and has degraded each year with more coaching under mickens
Bell - Bust at corner, playing RB now
2024
Leonard Moore - He's a stud, hit a home run, will probably have a great season, and miami may end up being one of his worst games of his career. I expect Moore to be the top ND corner in the NFL in a long long time. He walked in the door as NDs best corner without mickens coaching (give mickens credit for great eval though).
Hobbs - Don't see it, never have - won't call him a bust yet, but he's been a big reason why we're 0-2
2025 - TBD


So, he's recruited 2 studs his first 4 years that walked in and were the best corners on the team. There hasn't been a great track record of corners under him (AT ND) getting better each year and developing. Not BenMo IMO, Not Gray clearly, and I'd argue hart's best year was 2021 and he wasn't quite as good in 2022/2023. Hart is probably the only case you could make showing corner development year over year at ND.

I think mickens is a fine coach, but our secondary has been terrible against good passing teams the last 2 years. I also think it's telling we've had to hit the portal 3 years in a row now for a nickel corner. IMO because he's not developing the position good enough.

To finalize, ash is the bigger issue, but Mickens should NOT get a pass for how his secondary is playing.

Multiple players inherently can’t hit all at the same time.

Excluding transfers who performed better at ND than their prior stops was also a choice.

Hart was significantly better as he got older, when he was on the field.

I co-sign some blame on Mickens, I do not co-sign this sentiment as to why though

 

[PutuporShutup]

Terry Smith
Tim Walton
fran brown
corey raymond

just to name a few

 

[PutuporShutup]

Multiple players inherently can’t hit all at the same time.

Excluding transfers who performed better at ND than their prior stops was also a choice.

Hart was significantly better as he got older, when he was on the field.

I co-sign some blame on Mickens, I do not co-sign this sentiment as to why though

I think freeman hit on it, accountability and what he and the staff tolerates has to change. The amount of smack talk ND did before and during miami game, to lose, then do it before and during A&M game is a reflection on Freeman. They're being more violent and aggressive with their mouths than their play.

I think there is a HUGE lack of attention to details with this team as a whole. It's in every area, and that's a reflection on freeman and it's impacting every group. It's like they came into this season entitled because they made the championship game last year.

Examples

Offensive line blown assignments (many)
TE Blocking blown assignments (many)
WR blocking blown assignments (many)
RBs not going to where the play is designed in short yardage
DL and LBs having poor technique on their blitzes/rushes. They aren't helping each other as they should be coached (why minimal havoc)
Interior DL (hinish especially) poor technique when attempting to stand up blockers
Secondary not knowing where to be and terrible technique when they do know
ST after the late go ahead TD leaving the biggest hole ever on a kick off return on what could have been go ahead TD

This is a team that looks OK because of raw talent, it doesn't look like a well coached team anywhere other than maybe Carr.

 

[Dale]

I think freeman hit on it, accountability and what he and the staff tolerates has to change. The amount of smack talk ND did before and during miami game, to lose, then do it before and during A&M game is a reflection on Freeman. They're being more violent and aggressive with their mouths than their play.

I think there is a HUGE lack of attention to details with this team as a whole. It's in every area, and that's a reflection on freeman and it's impacting every group. It's like they came into this season entitled because they made the championship game last year.

Examples

Offensive line blown assignments (many)
TE Blocking blown assignments (many)
WR blocking blown assignments (many)
RBs not going to where the play is designed in short yardage
DL and LBs having poor technique on their blitzes/rushes. They aren't helping each other as they should be coached (why minimal havoc)
Interior DL (hinish especially) poor technique when attempting to stand up blockers
Secondary not knowing where to be and terrible technique when they do know
ST after the late go ahead TD leaving the biggest hole ever on a kick off return on what could have been go ahead TD

This is a team that looks OK because of raw talent, it doesn't look like a well coached team anywhere other than maybe Carr.

I’m not sure how any of this relates to my quoted post.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I’m not sure how any of this relates to my quoted post.

you said you don't agree to the "why" assuming why mickens should get some blame and secondary isn't playing good as a whole.

I was adding on to the why with how the team overall is sloppy, motivated in wrong areas, and it's my belief this is part of the reason why the secondary is playing poor. It looks like the finer details have not been a focus for the team as a whole.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Sorry to derail thread some

Back on track - Last time Ash was a DC his D gave up 28.5 PPG. He's also been a DB/S coach much of his career....maybe he's helping/hurting more with the secondary?