Chris "Belt To" Ash - Defensive Coordinator

[AKRowdy]

Exactly, there is no "personnel" reason that explains this level of drop off. Some drop off? Sure. But they are just totally out of sorts. Can't get lined up, play slow, bust coverages, create very few negative plays.

If you want an illustration of how you can "fit" inexperienced or undertalented guys into a productive defense, look at the 2012 defense that carried ND to a National Championship. They started a true freshman converted RB at corner and a true freshman safety (Elijah Shumate) at nickel. Sorry, as bad as Hobbs is playing right now, it's not like there is some incalculable gap in coverage ability relative to a true freshman box safety. There is always a way -- if you are a good coach -- to put guys in position to succeed. We aren't doing that, and what's worse is that we have knee capped many very talented players in the process.

Chris Ash came in and basically said in his intro press conference he wasn't going to change anything (which is also what he told Freeman when he interviewed) and then in spring ball he proceeded to throw away 3 years of continuity for what he felt more comfortable with. Which is fine... if you teach it well and you can execute it well. Your "scheme" doesn't matter, what matters is how it fits your players and how it is executed. It's being executed very poorly because of coaching. And the players absolutely blame Ash, and have whispered concerns since at least the summer. I don't really see how the situation is salvageable without Marcus Freeman doing some heavy lifting to get everyone on the same page.

So he lied about keeping things the same to Marcus on his interview? If this is the case I’m sure Marcus is fuming.

 

[SoIll]

So he lied about keeping things the same to Marcus on his interview? If this is the case I’m sure Marcus is fuming.

Marcus watched it in the spring. He watched it in fall camp. Fuming? MF let it continue to happen...

 

[Dale]

So he lied about keeping things the same to Marcus on his interview? If this is the case I’m sure Marcus is fuming.

Freeman is allowed at practice, at last check

 

[NDFAN2008]

Watching highlights of what we did against Georgia looks like we had the safeties lined up a few yards behind the DL where now they are lined up like 10 yards off the LOS see below.

 

[DomeFieldAdvantage]

Exactly, there is no "personnel" reason that explains this level of drop off. Some drop off? Sure. But they are just totally out of sorts. Can't get lined up, play slow, bust coverages, create very few negative plays.

If you want an illustration of how you can "fit" inexperienced or undertalented guys into a productive defense, look at the 2012 defense that carried ND to a National Championship. They started a true freshman converted RB at corner and a true freshman safety (Elijah Shumate) at nickel. Sorry, as bad as Hobbs is playing right now, it's not like there is some incalculable gap in coverage ability relative to a true freshman box safety. There is always a way -- if you are a good coach -- to put guys in position to succeed. We aren't doing that, and what's worse is that we have knee capped many very talented players in the process.

Chris Ash came in and basically said in his intro press conference he wasn't going to change anything (which is also what he told Freeman when he interviewed) and then in spring ball he proceeded to throw away 3 years of continuity for what he felt more comfortable with. Which is fine... if you teach it well and you can execute it well. Your "scheme" doesn't matter, what matters is how it fits your players and how it is executed. It's being executed very poorly because of coaching. And the players absolutely blame Ash, and have whispered concerns since at least the summer. I don't really see how the situation is salvageable without Marcus Freeman doing some heavy lifting to get everyone on the same page.

Barring Freeman doing something almost unheard of and firing a coordinator after two games, I think the only thing he can do is make Ash pare back the playbook to a level that our guys understand and can execute. Get it to the point of mostly eliminating the busts and miscommunications. Our next four games are against teams we should just be more talented than.

 

[IrishLax]

So he lied about keeping things the same to Marcus on his interview? If this is the case I’m sure Marcus is fuming.

I'm overstating the "not change anything," I'm sure they discussed things that they thought they could add + tweak but the general vibe was very close to verbatim what he said in his intro pressure. Get better at playing zone, find more ways to get pressure without blitzing, those kinds of things. Definitely did not say he wanted rip it down to the studs. I know this because a big part of keeping Mickens was the idea that they would keep doing what was working and Mickens was pitched on that "continuity."

Freeman thought he was getting another Al Golden -- experienced coach that knows how to call a game and would lean on assistants -- and instead they got stuck with a guy that is just the wrong fit. I really wonder what we would've looked like with wholesale changes under Jim Knowles, but I guess we'll never know.

 

[mrmcgrail]

Yeah they are in cover 1 robber in those which was the staple for Golden. You can do that when you have someone like watts playing fs

 

[Dale]

The Georgia game is not a 1 - 1 comparison. There was no reason to respect their passing game (weaker QB, WRs and OL than Miami/A&M). Closer would be the USC or OSU game. I’m not saying either is OSU but the stress of the passing game is a lot closer, and we played those games a lot safer + got shredded as well.

 

[mrmcgrail]

Until fs and nickel are figured out the back end is going to be in trouble with this pass rush. We knew gray is a liability on go balls he was last year but we rolled safety help to him and we had a lot better pressure packages. Until they figure it out it's going to be rough

 

[IrishLax]

Yeah they are in cover 1 robber in those which was the staple for Golden. You can do that when you have someone like watts playing fs

I think the conversation on Cover 1 is an interesting one because, without looking up stats, I feel like we have gotten quite burned on it, but would Watts even make a difference on some of these? Like on this key play:


They have Hobbs playing way off of Craver in the slot and giving up inside leverage. The idea is to have Bowen come underneath the route.

1. Why is Bowen on the field as your worst coverage safety? Same thing can be asked for leaving him 1v1 with the tight end on 4th and 11.
2. When Bowen doesn't get there, Hobbs has NO PRAYER of being able to cover Craver. That is an impossible ask.
3. Even if Bowen had undercut the route, without any pressure Reed could wait for it to uncover and you still get the big gain. So given all of the above taken together I don't see how this play isn't going for a 30+ yard completion given how ND lines up.

So Tae Johnson is playing centerfield and not in position to make a play on the ball, he is being asked to cover an insane amount of grass. Would Watts change anything? Should they be having Hobbs play that differently and Tae Johnson shade differently?

What I would've done... as a worthless hypothetical with the value of hindsight... is probably rush 3, give yourself two safeties. Shade one to the trips side and one to the side with Carver. Have Hobbs come up and play with inside leverage, give up the short throw to the flat. Anything down the field is taken away by the safety.

 

[Irish#1]

Exactly, there is no "personnel" reason that explains this level of drop off. Some drop off? Sure. But they are just totally out of sorts. Can't get lined up, play slow, bust coverages, create very few negative plays.

If you want an illustration of how you can "fit" inexperienced or undertalented guys into a productive defense, look at the 2012 defense that carried ND to a National Championship. They started a true freshman converted RB at corner and a true freshman safety (Elijah Shumate) at nickel. Sorry, as bad as Hobbs is playing right now, it's not like there is some incalculable gap in coverage ability relative to a true freshman box safety. There is always a way -- if you are a good coach -- to put guys in position to succeed. We aren't doing that, and what's worse is that we have knee capped many very talented players in the process.

Chris Ash came in and basically said in his intro press conference he wasn't going to change anything (which is also what he told Freeman when he interviewed) and then in spring ball he proceeded to throw away 3 years of continuity for what he felt more comfortable with. Which is fine... if you teach it well and you can execute it well. Your "scheme" doesn't matter, what matters is how it fits your players and how it is executed. It's being executed very poorly because of coaching. And the players absolutely blame Ash, and have whispered concerns since at least the summer. I don't really see how the situation is salvageable without Marcus Freeman doing some heavy lifting to get everyone on the same page.

Bingo..............We are all creatures of habit. Him going with what he is comfortable with is what's happening. My guess and this is just a guess, is Ash came in and tried to figure out Al's defense and it was to much for him to digest. Regardless of the reason, MF needs to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with Ash.

 

[stlnd01]

Until fs and nickel are figured out the back end is going to be in trouble with this pass rush. We knew gray is a liability on go balls he was last year but we rolled safety help to him and we had a lot better pressure packages. Until they figure it out it's going to be rough

I think a lot of us were expecting Davonte Smith to come in and be the next Clark/Harper. Instead he apparently doesn't play on passing downs and then got hurt. So we get Hobbs. At safety, there are reasons Talich was a walk-on. And Stroman looks slow. Then whatever's going on with the scheme seems to have neutralized Shuler's aggressiveness, which was his best quality last year. So when it comes to problematic DB spots, Gray's position is fourth out of five right now. I vote for more Tae Johnson, simplify Shuler's job, and keep plugging in nickels until someone hits.

But end of the day we also need to get more pressure, which will make life in the backfield immensely easier.

 

[mrmcgrail]

I mean yeah he would make a difference that's why it was so successful last year. He was amazing at diagnosing a play and getting to the exact spot he needed to be. He was a two time aa

 

[mrmcgrail]

Well shuler was playing robber a ton last year which lets him play closer to the line of scrimmage play the middle of the field and play all those crossers and help in run support

 

[Irish#1]

I think the conversation on Cover 1 is an interesting one because, without looking up stats, I feel like we have gotten quite burned on it, but would Watts even make a difference on some of these? Like on this key play:


They have Hobbs playing way off of Craver in the slot and giving up inside leverage. The idea is to have Bowen come underneath the route.

1. Why is Bowen on the field as your worst coverage safety? Same thing can be asked for leaving him 1v1 with the tight end on 4th and 11.
2. When Bowen doesn't get there, Hobbs has NO PRAYER of being able to cover Craver. That is an impossible ask.
3. Even if Bowen had undercut the route, without any pressure Reed could wait for it to uncover and you still get the big gain. So given all of the above taken together I don't see how this play isn't going for a 30+ yard completion given how ND lines up.

So Tae Johnson is playing centerfield and not in position to make a play on the ball, he is being asked to cover an insane amount of grass. Would Watts change anything? Should they be having Hobbs play that differently and Tae Johnson shade differently?

What I would've done... as a worthless hypothetical with the value of hindsight... is probably rush 3, give yourself two safeties. Shade one to the trips side and one to the side with Carver. Have Hobbs come up and play with inside leverage, give up the short throw to the flat. Anything down the field is taken away by the safety.

Or bring more in a blitz. Those crossing patterns were working all night because we played too soft and Reed except for a few plays never had to deal with any pressure. Force him to throw the ball sooner than he wants to.

 

[mrmcgrail]

The big thing with this new defense is you have guys doing stuff that they aren't great at. You are trying to have edge guys win one on one and that's not what this team does well. They need to be more exotic and stop these dumb 4 man rushes. You aren't letting Bowen fire as much and he isn't a great cover guy. Sneed isn't rushing of the edge which is what he does best. You are using kva as a spy for some fucking reason. It's bad scheme for the fit of who we have. We don't have joey bosa at edge

 

[NumbersGuy0520]

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This view of the dropped INT. Yeeeesh.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I think the conversation on Cover 1 is an interesting one because, without looking up stats, I feel like we have gotten quite burned on it, but would Watts even make a difference on some of these? Like on this key play:


They have Hobbs playing way off of Craver in the slot and giving up inside leverage. The idea is to have Bowen come underneath the route.

1. Why is Bowen on the field as your worst coverage safety? Same thing can be asked for leaving him 1v1 with the tight end on 4th and 11.
2. When Bowen doesn't get there, Hobbs has NO PRAYER of being able to cover Craver. That is an impossible ask.
3. Even if Bowen had undercut the route, without any pressure Reed could wait for it to uncover and you still get the big gain. So given all of the above taken together I don't see how this play isn't going for a 30+ yard completion given how ND lines up.

So Tae Johnson is playing centerfield and not in position to make a play on the ball, he is being asked to cover an insane amount of grass. Would Watts change anything? Should they be having Hobbs play that differently and Tae Johnson shade differently?

What I would've done... as a worthless hypothetical with the value of hindsight... is probably rush 3, give yourself two safeties. Shade one to the trips side and one to the side with Carver. Have Hobbs come up and play with inside leverage, give up the short throw to the flat. Anything down the field is taken away by the safety.

You do exactly what you did in the Miami game 2nd half vs Toney.

2nd half vs toney hobbs was leveraging outside and letting him break inside, but we had a safety doubling and running with him. In this instance a safety should have been where bowen was and covering any middle breaking routes.

The issue is why was Bowen in to play an obvious passing play at any time, then he's being asked to cover a ton of space, and he's by far our slowest LB. So stupid. Bowen is only good at the LOS. This defensive play call was designed to give up a throw to the outside with a max of about 5-10 yards if you make a great throw and catch. But because you put Bowen in a moronic spot, it goes for an easy 35. It was an easier throw to make due to bowen than the far outside one against gray they were willing to give up.

 

[AKRowdy]

Freeman is allowed at practice, at last check

Yeah understand that and understand letting Ash roll with it till game time. But after the past 2 weeks I’m sure he has a different opinion.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

This defensive roster is more talented than last year. Of course Watts, Mills, and Kiser are missed. But the collective unit is more talented. The defensive coordinators job is to figure out how to use the strengths of you players and cover up some of the weaknesses. Ash seems to be covering up the strengths and amplifying the weaknesses. There really is no other way to account for the massive drop-off unless TAMU has the best offense in the country.

 

[IrishTusker]

Do we know who actually told MF to hire Ash? Meyer? Tressel? It seems like MF needs to stop hiring people just because they once worked at OSU. There is a reason none of these people are still at OSU.

 

[stlnd01]

The issue is why was Bowen in to play an obvious passing play at any time, then he's being asked to cover a ton of space, and he's by far our slowest LB. So stupid. Bowen is only good at the LOS. This defensive play call was designed to give up a throw to the outside with a max of about 5-10 yards if you make a great throw and catch. But because you put Bowen in a moronic spot, it goes for an easy 35. It was an easier throw to make due to bowen than the far outside one against gray they were willing to give up.

It's 2nd and 7 with just over two minutes left and they've got three timeouts. It's probably a 50-50 run/pass situation, and if they run there, Bowen's certainly helpful. We probably just guessed wrong.
But then, yeah he was utterly lost in coverage. Second game in a row we've seen a captain completely spun around with his back to the other team's guy on a crucial late play (Wagner trying to block at the end of the Miami game). Not great.

 

[pumpdog20]

You simply cannot guard anyone at this level for how long they are expected to. Both Beck and Reed had all day to throw.

 

[irishu]

You simply cannot guard anyone at this level for how long they are expected to. Both Beck and Reed had all day to throw.

This

 

[mrmcgrail]

That's why it makes no sense to play this read and react zone. We don't have the guy's up front to do that. Golden knew that. We have a shut down corner in Moore, you can leave him on an island and you roll the fs to grays side which they did all the time. Those crossers don't work when you play robber because you have ss playing that middle, but we have to figure out nickel that's a huge weak spot that hasn't been one since freeman took over

 

[PolishDomer]

This is basically how I feel. There are a lot of plays where I am like "I don't even know who made the mistake here because what they all collectively did doesn't make any sense." Al Golden's defense was like a well-conducted orchestra, this is some middle schoolers in a garage learning how to play Smoke on the Water.

Well, more like Final Countdown Lax...and i am hoping this is the case as it relates to Ash... Chris Ash and his band when he was younger....

 

[DONTH8]

One big issue I have is the sudden fascination by Freeman to say "We need to get pressure with 4." Not once did he say that last year. And frankly, we probably got pressure with 4 about as consistently against the top teams as we are getting now against the top teams. EVERYONE would LOVE to get pressure with 4. But there's a reason no one does. Unless you have the greatest DL of all time, you gotta bring more than 4 to create consistent, effective pressure. So STOP telling me the plan is to get pressure with 4 for this defense to be successful, because it will not happen.

The last 2 years our defense has been a top defense and guess what?? We were bringing more than 4 on almost every play it seemed. And I never once heard Freeman say the goal was to get pressure with 4.

The 85 Bears would bring more than 4. Belicheck brings more than 4. Saban brings more than 4. The solution is not "we gotta bring pressure with 4."

So if Ash requires 4 man pressure to consistently cause havoc, we are screwed. And he is moronic.

 

[Free Manera]

That same insider on 247 said players are complaining because Ash changed everything post-camp. In other words they look completely lost on the field because they are completely lost.

 

[PolishDomer]

That same insider on 247 said players are complaining because Ash changed everything post-camp. In other words they look completely lost on the field because they are completely lost.

So Ash is an idiot...great

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

That same insider on 247 said players are complaining because Ash changed everything post-camp. In other words they look completely lost on the field because they are completely lost.

that would be hilarious
Play Al Golden's D all camp

"alright. we got our starters, now lets learn what I want to do!"