BVG Fired

[Buster Bluth]

Should have offered Bud Foster the moon when Beamer hung it up.

Bud Foster has coached at Virginia Tech since 1987. He isn't going anywhere.

 

[bluengold4732]

The guy I think ND needs to target if he gets fired this year is Derek Mason at Vandy. Proven defensive coach at high academic institutions.

Maybe our personnel on defense is better suited for a 3-4. Our DL never seems to get pressure and our best pass rusher is better suited as 3-4 rush LB. Looking at our roster on Defense...we really don't have a weak side DE besides Trumbetti and maybe Okwara. It would make sense and maybe cheer up those who miss Diaco

 

[Classic Irish]

The guy I think ND needs to target if he gets fired this year is Derek Mason at Vandy. Proven defensive coach at high academic institutions.

Good call. I initially was thinking of Chuck Martin if he gets canned at Miami of Ohio at the end of the year. At this point, I'd take anyone over BVG.

 

[GoIrish41]

The bold is a little much.

I think it's a combination of both talent and coaching. In BVG's scheme, the DL has to be solid, tough, able to stop the run, and occasionally pressure the QB. The LBing corp has to be way above average, be able to fill the gaps, and cover RBs out of the backfield. The secondary has to be able to both zone blitz, play man on the other side, and tackle in space. Just don't see enough of the right talent on the field for ND to do this effectively. Where I fault BVG on this is his inability to either recruit the players for his scheme or his stubbornness to not change or tweek his scheme to compensate.

This is where I'm at. Good coaches adapt their scheme to their players. We had zero pass rush last night. The only play we got pressure resulted in a INT. Although the corners looked somewhat ill prepared, we don't really have a strong safety who can cover anyone, let alone lightning quick slot backs. If this is the result our upperclassmen give us at DB, I want to see a better athletes on the field at safety. Just about everyone agrees that we don't have athletes at safety. We started two SSs who can't cover anyone, and weren't very active in run support. Put some of the young guys on the field. The freshman was more active and in better position all night than the 5th year senior. If like to see Pride get a look at FS ... at least he would have the speed to help out the corners on deep balls.

We only got close to their QBs once all night and that resulted in an INT ... By a freshman with high level athleticism. Why not see what Hayes can do if Trumbetti isn't in the same zip code as the QBs on pass plays? One of the reasons the DBs looked bad is there was no pressure on the QB all night. Maybe the five star DE with freak athletic ability and elite quickness could get around that slow OT who was mauling our less athletic starter? These issues are all on the coaches and their poor personnel decisions. Last year it was Schmidt ... Morgan led the team in tackles last night, I think. He didn't even have a particularly good game, but it was leaps and bounds better than any game Schmidt had last year. How much better would Moran be if he got 30 reps a game last year?.

The coaches have two glaring weaknesses in my view -- loyalty to upperclassmen even if they have inferior talent, and slavish, illogical dedication to scheme even when all evidence shows it isn't working. Players who understand the scheme best play over the best athletes who would improve our chances of success. It's becoming an annual frustration. And it hurts recruiting, IMO. Who wants to sit behind a Schmodt for two years when they could be starting on a better team so where else.

 

[MJ12666]

Lax how is it that Houston, BC, Michigan state for a awhile
and other schools can play good to decent defense with a roster full of 2 and 3 stars yet the majority of our guys are 4 to high 3 stars and we can't stop a nosebleed. I am not saying your wrong that there are talent and recruiting decencies within our defense but I do adamantly disagree with you that another DC couldn't fix or get better results. BVG has been terrible in every regard and needs to be canned and should have been canned after the OSU game, I agree with you that we need to land more
Defensive talent but we also need a new DC and possibly a whole new defensive staff, I don't see one area of defense we play well.

Not saying this is the only reason but most likely a partial explanation; while ND players are doing classwork, the players going to the schools that you referenced above are in the weight room or studying film of upcoming opponents.

 

[bluengold4732]

Lax how is it that Houston, BC, Michigan state for a awhile
and other schools can play good to decent defense with a roster full of 2 and 3 stars yet the majority of our guys are 4 to high 3 stars and we can't stop a nosebleed. I am not saying your wrong that there are talent and recruiting decencies within our defense but I do adamantly disagree with you that another DC couldn't fix or get better results. BVG has been terrible in every regard and needs to be canned and should have been canned after the OSU game, I agree with you that we need to land more
Defensive talent but we also need a new DC and possibly a whole new defensive staff, I don't see one area of defense we play well.

By playing assignment football. The problem is most of our players don't know their assignment so their out of place on the back end. Only way to negate that is with speed...another thing we're lacking on the back end and up front. When you miss an assignment and lack the speed to counter act your mistake...you give up huge plays.
We need better coaching and better athletes on defense otherwise we're going to continue to get gashed.

 

[NDRock]

Not saying this is the only reason but most likely a partial explanation; while ND players are doing classwork, the players going to the schools that you referenced above are in the weight room or studying film of upcoming opponents.

Except they have time to go out, party and get arrested. They obviously haven some free time.

 

[IrishLax]

Lax how is it that Houston, BC, Michigan state for a awhile
and other schools can play good to decent defense with a roster full of 2 and 3 stars yet the majority of our guys are 4 to high 3 stars and we can't stop a nosebleed. I am not saying your wrong that there are talent and recruiting decencies within our defense but I do adamantly disagree with you that another DC couldn't fix or get better results. BVG has been terrible in every regard and needs to be canned and should have been canned after the OSU game, I agree with you that we need to land more
Defensive talent but we also need a new DC and possibly a whole new defensive staff, I don't see one area of defense we play well.

This is a great question, and I think the answer is a lack of "holes"... those teams are almost always starting upper class men with years in the same system. For ND, the problem is we have a few guys that are really good, a few guys who are decent, and then a few guys that are so bad that they can be exploited by certain teams. Houston/BC/MSU might have "low star" players but when they're recruited to fit a scheme and developed then they're all at least "decent."

Michigan State isn't making the mistakes ND has made in recruiting depth. MSU isn't signing one safety over two full classes causing huge depth problems and forcing true freshman to play. They're recruiting two safeties a year so they're always starting guys with at least a year or two of development... if you sign 8 three star players your chances of getting at least two quality players from that group is high, if you only sign one 4 star guy you have to pray they stay healthy and aren't a bust or you have no contingency plans.

 

[bluengold4732]

Good call. I initially was thinking of Chuck Martin if he gets canned at Miami of Ohio at the end of the year. At this point, I'd take anyone over BVG.

To BVG's defense(pun intended) his 1st 2 season openers the D played lights out and then crapped the bed for the rest of the year. Maybe he decided to switch it so we looked bad in the opener and shock everyone with our defensive play for the rest of the year

 

[Irishman77]

It doesn't take a genius to realize rushing 3 and keeping our LB's 5-7 yards deep and waiting for the OL to come out and smother them isn't working. BVG is an idiot!

 

[MJ12666]

Except they have time to go out, party and get arrested. They obviously haven some free time.

LOL - Can't disagree.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Except they have time to go out, party and get arrested. They obviously haven some free time.

Hahahaha

It doesn't take a genius to realize rushing 3 and keeping our LB's 5-7 yards deep and waiting for the OL to come out and smother them isn't working. BVG is an idiot!

Yup

 

[Luckylucci]

See I don't think it's talent I think it's 100% coach not getting the talent ready or prepared correctly. My opinion has been for awhile that he's not a good coach, at the college level. I think too much time is spent preaching scheme and not enough emphasis on the fundamentals. I think we've seen a major regression in fundamental football on defense since Diaco left. The reason for my angst is because I believe we have the talent to put together a quality defense, just not the coach to do it.

Really it's just sloppy football. It sincerely looks likes guys running around with no purpose. It's not that those guys aren't fast or athletic, they don't seem to always have a purpose.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'd even take it one step further and say it's damn shame that we have waisted so much talent with these poor results. Over the last 3 years

 

[IrishLax]

To expand on the MSU vs ND thing... ND has two total scholarship players on the players at safety on the roster that aren't freshmen (Tranquill and Sebastian). Unless you count Fertitta and you shouldn't.

MSU has EIGHT safeties on the roster that aren't freshman. Someo those are probably walk on but I don't know they probably still have 6 scholarship safeties with some development relative to ND that has TWO. So in 6+ guys it's easy to find two that can play at an acceptable level.... with only two guys, if either can't get it done you're positively screwed. And that's the situation we're in right now. BVG/Cooks/Diaco made this bed with crap recruiting and there is no quick fix.

 

[kmoose]

I said freshman, not sophomores Einstein ( I have two posts here on that subject, different threads). And I meant all of them, not just two. It should be a rotation just like the DL until they figure out who can play. Forget redshirts, the team needs to find leaders at DB regardless of how old they are.

I know what you said. I quoted you. You said:

Agree. There were some disappointments (Redfield) but that is still a talented defense.

Now we have Morgan replacing Schmidt, the clear weak link in the defense last season. And Morgan looks like he can play a little, at least, in the first game.

Our defensive backfield depth is young, but I say play them. I said it during the game last night in the game thread. Just put all the young DBs in the game and let them get experience.

Texas plays their young players, and look at what they are doing. So should we, if they are more talented. I think at DB they are.

Also, the scheme needs to be changed. This type of bust or boom defense is going to get hammered against good OCs, which is what happened last night. Once they find a weakness they are going to exploit it.

The word "Freshman", or "Freshmen" doesn't show up even once in there. So don't try to lie your way out of this. You said "young". In just about every single conversation about college football, "young" includes sophomores. Especially sophomores who missed their entire Freshman season!

 

[IrishLax]

To be fair, I think the defense will play a LOT better as the year goes on against offenses that aren't the veer & shoot.

Doesn't mean he should keep his job though, because it's his scheme + recruiting that made them incapable of defending that Texas team last night. I will judge him on the full body of work, but unless there are a couple gems in the remaining games AND we sign up some top talent on defense he needs to be gone.

 

[mgriff]

He doesn't even recruit defense. If you want that kind of a gig you must produce results. He has failed to produce every single year. This excuse about talent is ludicrous. There are teams that work with far less than ND has and field competent defenses. I don't think anyone is expecting Bama's defense. But a competent defense that is not a liability is a reasonable position.

 

[GATTACA!]

He doesn't even recruit defense. If you want that kind of a gig you must produce results. He has failed to produce every single year. This excuse about talent is ludicrous. There are teams that work with far less than ND has and field competent defenses. I don't think anyone is expecting Bama's defense. But a competent defense that is not a liability is a reasonable position.

Jesus mgriff thank you for changing that gif sig.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

The defense needs players like Malik Jefferson. 5 star players who can take over the game.

That could have been Morgan. But unlike Texas coaches our coaches held Morgan back, while Texas let Jefferson start from day 1 let him fly around and learn from his mistakes...


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[Buster Bluth]

The defense needs players like Malik Jefferson. 5 star players who can take over the game.

That could have been Morgan. But unlike Texas coaches our coaches held Morgan back, while Texas let Jefferson start from day 1 let him fly around and learn from his mistakes...

Texas wasn't playing for shit in 2015.

I'm not agreeing with the coaches' decision to start Schmidt, but Texas had nothing to lose whereas Notre Dame put together a ten-win season.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

I'd even take it one step further and say it's damn shame that we have waisted so much talent with these poor results. Over the last 3 years

Absolutely, especially last year.

 

[STLDomer]

The defense needs players like Malik Jefferson. 5 star players who can take over the game.

That could have been Morgan. But unlike Texas coaches our coaches held Morgan back, while Texas let Jefferson start from day 1 let him fly around and learn from his mistakes...


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That guy was Jaylon Smith. They don't come around often. In two years Texas fans will be saying the same thing, "we need a guy like Player X!"

Nyles Morgan no matter what would have never resembled Malik Jefferson.

In reality guys like Jaylon and Malik are less than a handful in all of CFB. And unless your Alabama you don't have one on your team every year.

 

[jerboski]

To expand on the MSU vs ND thing... ND has two total scholarship players on the players at safety on the roster that aren't freshmen (Tranquill and Sebastian). Unless you count Fertitta and you shouldn't.

MSU has EIGHT safeties on the roster that aren't freshman. Someo those are probably walk on but I don't know they probably still have 6 scholarship safeties with some development relative to ND that has TWO. So in 6+ guys it's easy to find two that can play at an acceptable level.... with only two guys, if either can't get it done you're positively screwed. And that's the situation we're in right now. BVG/Cooks/Diaco made this bed with crap recruiting and there is no quick fix.

I agree with you on this, the recruiting has been awful and many times head scratching, for instance passing on Hamlin last year or a DT... This year isn't promising in my book unless something drastically happens I don't see us landing many elite defensive players, I see we have currently
Committed two secondary players and adibo is shaking with his commitment and this fiasco did nothing but make that commitment even shakier. The recruiting, scheme and developement has been a complete disaster. The DC is a large part of the problem but you are right in that recruiting needs to be addressed as well

 

[jerboski]

I'd even take it one step further and say it's damn shame that we have waisted so much talent with these poor results. Over the last 3 years

Nailed it, how they couldn't get more impact plays out of jaylon smith is beyond me,, if he suits up for Clemson, OSU or bama he probably has 7-9 sacks a year, double digit tackles for loss and a few picks but for us we play him in the middle and make him shed blocks and rarely let him blitz or pass rush, mind boggling

 

[IrishLax]

Absolutely, especially last year.

It's insane to think how badly we wated Jaylon Smith, KVR, Day, Okwara, and Farley last year. That's 5 NFL quality upperclassmen we had and still got crap production. Now we're missing players of that quality AND still have the same scheme problems.

You replace Coleman with KVR, Sebastian with Farley, Trumbetti with Okwara/Day, and Martini with Smith... promise you we have less than 24 missed tackles and KVR isn't getting roasted deep every play.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Our back end has one legit player right now (Cole Luke)... two if you count Crawford. The problem is MASSIVE HOLES at the 3rd CB and safety.

I don't care what coach you have if your corner just flat out can't cover a guy AND the safeties are too slow to play coverage AND your safeties can't tackle in run support.

This is not a defense of BVG, it's in large part his fault that we don't have depth back there and are instead playing guys who aren't ready. Scheme is also an issue but you could've had Diaco, Mason, Durkin, whoever coaching that D last night and Coleman is still going to get burned, safety help over the top still won't get there, missed tackles were still going to happen, and the run support was still going be non-existent.

I don't think enough people realize the entire point of the veer and shoot is to isolate and exploit 1v1 matchups and that's exactly what Texas did all night long.

Three if you count Watkins. Remember he was a top 150 recruit. He also played pretty damn well in the bowl game. He should be farther along, but BVG doesn't play young players and waste their talent.

As I said during the pre season Watkins and Butler loss is bigger than everyone on IE was making it out be.

You fools were touting Coleman and Ashton White as better players and even improves over the two injured players.WRONG!


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[phgreek]

I'd like someone that can do what gary patterson does...Or I'd even take Shoop ...formerly of State Penn, currently at Tennessee. Really any mid level performer from the SEC...

I feel like we've seen enough of D-coordinators who don't recruit well. I've seen enough of trying to create dbacks who can play in coverage so we can manufacture pressure. I'll take Bob Diaco's philosophy if we get a mad recruiter who can get us a 5 star Dlineman every year or two, and we consistently generate pressure from the front 3 or 4. Go spend the money...get someone here we KNOW will deliver a top 20 D...not even asking for top 5 or 10...just competent.

Good Lord it is Notre Dame...how can this keep happening?

 

[phgreek]

To BVG's defense(pun intended) his 1st 2 season openers the D played lights out and then crapped the bed for the rest of the year. Maybe he decided to switch it so we looked bad in the opener and shock everyone with our defensive play for the rest of the year

It might look that way for the next 4 weeks or so...but as soon as he lines up against Stanford and Southern Cal...we'll see this shit all over again.

 

[pkt77242]

I think that the defense will improve some once Watkins is back.