BVG and Rex Ryan

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Our esteemed defensive coordinator's last job before joining ND was as the linebacker coach of the New York Jets under now Bills coach Rex Ryan, and his style of play calling is very much from the same school of thought. I've been a lifelong Jets fan and have watched Rex Ryan and his tendencies, and what that means for ND under BVG.

Rex Ryan's (like his father) defense is predicated on attacking the quarterback at almost any cost. He does this through:

(1) Getting pressure and hits on the quarterback
(2) Keep the quarterback guessing where the pressure is coming from.

As we've seen over the previous season, the principle means to accomplish this is the zone blitz. So far BVG has differed in personnel choices, with BVG deploying lighter, faster linebackers and a traditional 4 down lineman arrangement, while Ryan had personnel more akin to a Bob Diaco 3-4 (even putting 290 lb Quinton Coples as an outside linebacker). Both require elite level secondary play, particularly from the corners, who are expected to play significant man coverage. The zone blitz is an effective way of bringing pressure, but opens up the defense to getting gashed on big plays, and often puts players in coverage that are almost laughable mismatches if the quarterback can find the check down. This also makes this style defense vulnerable to draws and running quarterbacks.

Everyone who has watched ND the last season and has done their research on BVG should already everything above. What many of you may not know is the scheme and personality similarities impacts what we will very likely see from this defense.

One of the principle theories behind relentless attacking and confusing of the quarterback is the impact is not transitory, but cumulative. The quarterback will start feeling pressure even if it's not there, and like we saw against Michigan and many a Jet game, many quarterbacks will scumb to it. The downfall to this is that some quarterbacks can effectively neutralize the pass rush with quick throws, and the Rex Ryan school says that if the pressure isn't working, SEND MORE PRESSURE. We saw this in the second half vs FSU, with BVG sending relentless pressure against Winston, despite it not working like it had in the first half.

The second major flaw in the Rex Ryan school of defense is that in it is in a way, despite being unpredictable in where pressure is coming from, is in fact quite predictable in the the fact that they will bring pressure, particularly on 3rd. While it tends to be good for a defense to have an identity and play what it practices and is good at, being adaptive and breaking from your normal tendencies also has value. Sometimes dropping 8 in coverage is more confusing to a quarterback than a jailbreak blitz. Some of Rex Ryan's most brilliant defensive playcalling in fact came in games where he played very a very vanilla scheme.

I'm hopeful BVG can develop into an elite defensive coordinator, and I think this defense will be scary this year. And I'll leave y'all with this

 

[Kingbish01]

It does help when you have Revis island, hope KVR can shut down the opposing teams best WR. If so, no reason constant pressure won't work.

 

[TheChosen1]

My thought is Brian Kelly knew that ND can't sign elite defensive lineman therefore he had to get creative with his defensive coordinator.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

I even knew while playing Madden as a young kid that bringing pressure all the time and then faking pressure on 3rd and medium to long was a very effective strategy once in a while.. It's simple chess.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

It does help when you have Revis island, hope KVR can shut down the opposing teams best WR. If so, no reason constant pressure won't work.

Revis was certainly an important cog in Rex Ryan's defense, however if you look statistically at his career with the Jets one of his best seasons was in 2012 when Revis was injured. That year he actually played a lot more vanilla defense and zone coverages. Corner play is critical, the Jets gave up a ton of yards and touchdowns this year despite what is probably the best 3-4 defensive line in the league and being 6th in the NFL for sacks.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

To be honest what concerns me most is getting gashed in the running game like we did last year due to the inability to protect the linebackers. I said last year there are going to be huge plays in the passing game due to the aggressive blitzing, but I didn't expect the inability to stop the running game. I almost had an aneurism watching those USC and ASU games.

 

[Irish#1]

The key is the lock down corners. When you don't have to double anyone it makes a world of difference regardless of the scheme up front.

 

[Crazy Balki]

To be honest what concerns me most is getting gashed in the running game like we did last year due to the inability to protect the linebackers. I said last year there are going to be huge plays in the passing game due to the aggressive blitzing, but I didn't expect the inability to stop the running game. I almost had an aneurism watching those USC and ASU games.

Really? That concerns me the least. We didn't have any depth at that point in the season, and Day/Jones were on their last leg and straight up missed the USC game. It's pretty easy to get gashed in the run game when your 1st, 2nd and 3rd stringers are out.

 

[Wild Bill]

The key is the lock down corners. When you don't have to double anyone it makes a world of difference regardless of the scheme up front.

You still need a pass rush. Whether it's a stud pass rusher or a manufactured rush you need to get to the QB. The best corners in the country can only cover for so long.

 

[IrishLax]

The truth is that complicated, variable blitz packages do not work in college against up tempo teams. You have way too much trouble getting aligned and then get caught flat footed once the ball is snapped.

We're going to find out week 1 against Texas whether BVG has developed a change-up. Aggressive defense worked well against pro-style teams last year (and when you had Joe Schmidt lining everyone up + a healthy Riggs playing at a high level). But against a team going 100 MPH, look at what Ohio State did against Oregon... Diaco style bend-but-don't-break while having your DL win at the line of scrimmage works fantastic.

But, you know, you have to have DL capable of winning at the line of scrimmage...

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Really? That concerns me the least. We didn't have any depth at that point in the season, and Day/Jones were on their last leg and straight up missed the USC game. It's pretty easy to get gashed in the run game when your 1st, 2nd and 3rd stringers are out.

Yes, it's a major concern for me when the running back is 5 yards downfield before anyone is near them. I'm aware of the injuries we suffered and spoke out about them last year. But no one was able to hold point of contact and slow down the run. ASU I had to stop watching. Like lax said, I think the truth lies somewhere in between. There are different variables in the college game that I hope BVG learned from last year. I love aggressive defense as much as anyone. But when you get caught, it's bad. I was actually surprised last year at the lack of adjustments made in game.
On another unrelated point, why does the Georgia Tech game frighten me so much?

 

[Wild Bill]

Yes, it's a major concern for me when the running back is 5 yards downfield before anyone is near them. I'm aware of the injuries we suffered and spoke out about them last year. But no one was able to hold point of contact and slow down the run. ASU I had to stop watching. Like lax said, I think the truth lies somewhere in between. There are different variables in the college game that I hope BVG learned from last year. I love aggressive defense as much as anyone. But when you get caught, it's bad. I was actually surprised last year at the lack of adjustments made in game.
On another unrelated point, why does the Georgia Tech game frighten me so much?

Rochelle and Jones hold the point of attack really well. Day can do the same but he's better shooting gaps and shedding blockers rather than standing up blockers. Trumbetti is young but he's shown flashes of being a complete defensive end that can play the run.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Rochelle and Jones hold the point of attack really well. Day can do the same but he's better shooting gaps and shedding blockers rather than standing up blockers. Trumbetti is young but he's shown flashes of being a complete defensive end that can play the run.

Definitely had some moments but overall (IMO) we got gashed way too often in those B and C gap last year. It felt like we had a really difficult time getting lined up pre snap and got exposed there. I definitely think some changes will be made. I definitely think we have the horses, hopefully year 2 brings some adjustments. I'm really excited to see Tillery this year, I think he can be a disruptive upfield force. Just so you guys know, I'm not trying to be argumentative here. Just some things that bothered me watching last year.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

The truth is that complicated, variable blitz packages do not work in college against up tempo teams. You have way too much trouble getting aligned and then get caught flat footed once the ball is snapped.

We're going to find out week 1 against Texas whether BVG has developed a change-up. Aggressive defense worked well against pro-style teams last year (and when you had Joe Schmidt lining everyone up + a healthy Riggs playing at a high level). But against a team going 100 MPH, look at what Ohio State did against Oregon... Diaco style bend-but-don't-break while having your DL win at the line of scrimmage works fantastic.

But, you know, you have to have DL capable of winning at the line of scrimmage...

Totally agree.

The issue for me, specifically in the college game. If your going to blitz, basically, every play. EVERYONE has to be in perfect position and know exactly what there suppose to do.

Corners have to be freaking Deion Sanders and your safetys better be Ronnie lott to be able to give cover support and be able to come up quick on the run and be able to make a play for the vacating linebacker.

I myself hope we see a watered down version of what BVG really wants to do, I don't think we have what is needed to run his Style of D at full steam. Way to sketchy in my opinion.

I think BVG and Kelly both get 'paralysis by analysis'. let the guys play. If ND players are confused, you better pump the brakes with the terminology and scheme. That's on BVG not Max Redfield.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Totally agree.

The issue for me, specifically in the college game. If your going to blitz, basically, every play. EVERYONE has to be in perfect position and know exactly what there suppose to do.

Corners have to be freaking Deion Sanders and your safetys better be Ronnie lott to be able to give cover support and be able to come up quick on the run and be able to make a play for the vacating linebacker.

I myself hope we see a watered down version of what BVG really wants to do, I don't think we have what is needed to run his Style of D at full steam. Way to sketchy in my opinion.

I think BVG and Kelly both get 'paralysis by analysis'. let the guys play. If ND players are confused, you better pump the brakes with the terminology and scheme. That's on BVG not Max Redfield.

We saw what complex blitz packages can do with Michigan and ASU. Both were devastating. My main issue comes when we blitz on 3rd downs so often that the quarterback knows to hit the hot read before he even leaves the huddle. The slow pace of preparedness to the line is also a huge problem, any team that was even halfway capable of running uptempo did, and we had absolutely no answer for it.

 

[Irish#1]

You still need a pass rush. Whether it's a stud pass rusher or a manufactured rush you need to get to the QB. The best corners in the country can only cover for so long.

Agree, but if you have the corners, you can send two guys at the same point of attack if you don't have a stud pass rusher.

 

[Fbolt]

This year the Irish have Tillery.

 

[Crazy Balki]

This year the Irish have Tillery.

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[T Town Tommy]

The truth is that complicated, variable blitz packages do not work in college against up tempo teams. You have way too much trouble getting aligned and then get caught flat footed once the ball is snapped.

We're going to find out week 1 against Texas whether BVG has developed a change-up. Aggressive defense worked well against pro-style teams last year (and when you had Joe Schmidt lining everyone up + a healthy Riggs playing at a high level). But against a team going 100 MPH, look at what Ohio State did against Oregon... Diaco style bend-but-don't-break while having your DL win at the line of scrimmage works fantastic.

But, you know, you have to have DL capable of winning at the line of scrimmage...

Agree with this completely. Even Saban contends that he can only run around 40% of his defensive sets due to up tempo offenses. What worked five years ago with zone blitzes, safety coming from nowhere, etc is much harder to do today. And I don't think the DL pressure in that type of defense is critical. The DL role is more contain your gap, have a nose eat up two gaps, open the lane for the LB, and bring the corner or safety to apply the pressure. And your other LB better be able to play pass coverage in space. Bama has had top five defenses for a while and have had no real pass rushers from the DL. But we have seen what up tempo offenses can do to their defense.

 

[Luckylucci]

Interesting stat from a Coach D article on our defense last year.

Over the final six games, the Irish defense gave up 267.5 rushing yards per game and 5.7 yards per rush.

 

[RallySon]

Really? That concerns me the least. We didn't have any depth at that point in the season, and Day/Jones were on their last leg and straight up missed the USC game. It's pretty easy to get gashed in the run game when your 1st, 2nd and 3rd stringers are out.

What was the issue before USC?

Everyone can talk about injuries and depth but the truth of the matter is BVG is a below average coach at best. If he doesn't dial it back a bit, stop dropping our best pass rushers in coverage, and constantly keeping our best players out of position... it's going to be a long and depressing season (again).

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

What was the issue before USC?

Everyone can talk about injuries and depth but the truth of the matter is BVG is a below average coach at best. If he doesn't dial it back a bit, stop dropping our best pass rushers in coverage, and constantly keeping our best players out of position... it's going to be a long and depressing season (again).

In that clip against Northwestern, Day and Cage were already out of the game by then with injury.

 

[RallySon]

I still don't believe ND's 2nd or 3rd team DL should get roasted by NW.

I'll digress that the defense didn't get much help from BK's playcalling.

 

[kmoose]

My thought is Brian Kelly knew that ND can't sign elite defensive lineman therefore he had to get creative with his defensive coordinator.

Louis Nix, Stephon Tuitt, Ethan Johnson, Kapron Lewis-Moore, Jarron Jones, Sheldon Day, Jerry Tillery, Aaron Lynch............ ND hasn't had a problem getting outstanding talent on the defensive line.

 

[RallySon]

A few elite DL sprinkled in, sure. Although it seems the last 3 years Kelly has completely whiffed on the big names ND needs for consistency and depth.

Too many projects.

I miss hearing the recruiting tales of the tireless recruiting trips Diaco had recruiting 5 stars in SEC country. Seems like we don't hear anything on that front anymore.

 

[kmoose]

A few elite DL sprinkled in, sure. Although it seems the last 3 years Kelly has completely whiffed on the big names ND needs for consistency and depth.

Too many projects.

I miss hearing the recruiting tales of the tireless recruiting trips Diaco had recruiting 5 stars in SEC country. Seems like we don't hear anything on that front anymore.

Vanderdoes and Tillery in 2 of those 3 years. That's what you call "whiffing"?

Kelly has been killing it at Defensive Tackle.

In each of the last 4 years, Kelly has signed a Top 15(Rivals ranking) rated DT:

2012: #14 Jarron Jones
2013: #2 Eddie Vanderdoes
2014: #14 Jay Hayes
2015: #15 Jerry Tillery

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Louis Nix, Stephon Tuitt, Ethan Johnson, Kapron Lewis-Moore, Jarron Jones, Sheldon Day, Jerry Tillery, Aaron Lynch............ ND hasn't had a problem getting outstanding talent on the defensive line.

I think its has to do with Scheme. not Talent. When s**t hit the fan and people were injured, the scheme didn't really change, IMO.

That's my issue with these Pro coaches (i know BVG had college experience) coming down to the college level. In the pro's those guys get paid a ton of money to know every intricate detail of the defense and when mistakes do happen they have elite athletic ability to make up for it.

Lets look at Tillery. physically capable of playing this year, everyone said he had a phenomenal spring. So there is no doubt that man for man he can hang. I bet he doesn't play over 50% of the snaps, why? Scheme. It'll be to complex.

 

[Luckylucci]

One of my biggest problems with last year is illustrated above. In 3 of those clips above at least one side of the DL is stunting. In all 3 of those clips the DL get out of their respective lanes and it leads to big plays with a scrambling QB. I understand that trying to create pressure is important but we actually made those scenarios worse by doing so. Especially against NW, put some faith that your DL can go out there are just beat the man across from you. I would rather have my DC side with that versus being too aggressive and leading to an inferior offense toasting us.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

One of my biggest problems with last year is illustrated above. In 3 of those clips above at least one side of the DL is stunting. In all 3 of those clips the DL get out of their respective lanes and it leads to big plays with a scrambling QB. I understand that trying to create pressure is important but we actually made those scenarios worse by doing so. Especially against NW, put some faith that your DL can go out there are just beat the man across from you. I would rather have my DC side with that versus being too aggressive and leading to an inferior offense toasting us.

Total agreement lucky

 

[kmoose]

I think its has to do with Scheme. not Talent. When s**t hit the fan and people were injured, the scheme didn't really change, IMO.

That's my issue with these Pro coaches (i know BVG had college experience) coming down to the college level. In the pro's those guys get paid a ton of money to know every intricate detail of the defense and when mistakes do happen they have elite athletic ability to make up for it.

Lets look at Tillery. physically capable of playing this year, everyone said he had a phenomenal spring. So there is no doubt that man for man he can hang. I bet he doesn't play over 50% of the snaps, why? Scheme. It'll be to complex.

That was not the topic. The contention was made that Kelly can't get elite talent on the Defensive line, so he had to get creative in hiring a D Coordinator to make up for it. In fact, Kelly has gotten elite talent on the D-line. Maybe not ALL elite, but he's gotten probably just as much as anyone else in the country.