Brock Berglund...COME ON CHUCK!

[phgreek]

I have supporterd Chuck, and rooted for him here at ND, and since his departure because I thought he was a class act...I still think he is.

However, I don't like the idea of coming in, telling a kid he won't have a shot to start, in the midst of a coaching change, and then subsequently holding him hostage.

I'm sure there is a Kansas side to this...but I'm hard pressed to come up with a scenario where I wouldn't be standing on Chucks desk, while simultaneously twisting Powlus' ear, and demanding some explanations if that were my kid...You Simply Cannot conduct yourself like an SEC factory and retain the respect of decent people...COME ON CHUCK!

link to article:
Brock Berglund Not Free To Transfer After Being Dismissed By Kansas Football - SBNation.com

 

[bert2834]

I agree. Just release the kid.

This is on Charlie.

 

[RyCo1983]

Weis's time at Florida has clearly had disastrious results.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

As a Jayhawk, I think you're probably mostly right. Berglund has lots of baggage, but you have to release the guy.

That said, I don't know any of the internal stuff here. There might be lots to this story that I don't know.

 

[irishfanjho15]

Once you go to the Darkside, it is hard to resist the urges.

 

[johnnykillz]

Once you go to the Darkside, it is hard to resist the urges.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UnE3-0X-174" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[phgreek]

As a Jayhawk, I think you're probably mostly right. Berglund has lots of baggage, but you have to release the guy.

That said, I don't know any of the internal stuff here. There might be lots to this story that I don't know.

...there is another side...agreed...just hard to think of anything compelling enough to make it reasonable to do this to the kid.

I was looking forward to watching Kansas, and rooting Chuck and Dayne on...kinda less motivated to root for Chuck until he does right here...

 

[Fbolt]

Agreed Jayhawk-there MUST be things here we don't know about. At least I certainly hope so....

 

[BGIF]

As a Jayhawk, I think you're probably mostly right. Berglund has lots of baggage, but you have to release the guy.

That said, I don't know any of the internal stuff here. There might be lots to this story that I don't know.

There frequently is, but bottom line is Charlie did not want him and now he doesn't want Charlie. What's the point of keeping somebody unhappy in your program a captive?

Best I can see is they want him as security for Crist's knees this year while Heaps in ineligibile than they'll chuck him. The kid or his father is that dumb.

Charlie didn't exhibit skill in handling personnel issues with high school and college. As I read the story, CW had Powlus tell the kid he was demoted. Yes, Powlus is the QB Coach but CW is the new head coach dealing with an awkward situation of replacing the incumbent starter with a transfer that didn't play a full game last season. It's his team BUT you show some finesse in dealing with egos particularly when you need the demotee to stay on board and be ready to step in.

Anyone recall the WR, David Nelson, that verballed to Willingham before Charlie was hired. After Charlie came on board the kid wanted Charlie to make an inhome. Charlie said he was too busy preparing for the Super Bowl and told the kid if that wasn't good enough move to move on. "My way or the high way!" The kid flipped from ND to UF. Or the top ranked kicker, Kai Forbath, in another year that Charlie pressured to verbal ND when the kid wasn't ready to pull the trigger. When he wouldn't commit on Charlie's timetable, Charlie dropped him and got a verbal from Ryan Burkhart the next day? How 'bout the DE (Kellen Wade ??) that Charlie wanted to move inside to DT his last year. The kid said no because he was way too light, said "no, thank you," and was gone?

How many of those flips of ND verbals under Weis to UNC, UGA, UF and OU and elswhere might have been kept at ND if Charlie displayed the perserverance that Kelly does in "listening to" and "working with" the confused, undecided, or bruised egos of 18, 19, and 20 year olds instead of taking the NFL attitude of "you belong to us"?

Would Charlie have shown patience or understanding with Lynch, Tuitt, Prestwood, Carlisle, or Kiel and the flexibility to take them back after they spurned him?

Charlie appears to have improved his assistant coach hiring skills at KU over his record at ND but he's still seems to be the same old Charlie in dealing with players and recruits.

 

[irishfanjho15]

There frequently is, but bottom line is Charlie did not want him and now he doesn't want Charlie. What's the point of keeping somebody unhappy in your program a captive?

Best I can see is they want him as security for Crist's knees this year while Heaps in ineligibile than they'll chuck him. The kid or his father is that dumb.

Charlie didn't exhibit skill in handling personnel issues with high school and college. As I read the story, CW had Powlus tell the kid he was demoted. Yes, Powlus is the QB Coach but CW is the new head coach dealing with an awkward situation of replacing the incumbent starter with a transfer that didn't play a full game last season. It's his team BUT you show some finesse in dealing with egos particularly when you need the demotee to stay on board and be ready to step in.

Anyone recall the WR, David Nelson, that verballed to Willingham before Charlie was hired. After Charlie came on board the kid wanted Charlie to make an inhome. Charlie said he was too busy preparing for the Super Bowl and told the kid if that wasn't good enough move to move on. "My way or the high way!" The kid flipped from ND to UF. Or the top ranked kicker, Kai Forbath, in another year that Charlie pressured to verbal ND when the kid wasn't ready to pull the trigger. When he wouldn't commit on Charlie's timetable, Charlie dropped him and got a verbal from Ryan Burkhart the next day? How 'bout the DE (Kellen Wade ??) that Charlie wanted to move inside to DT his last year. The kid said no because he was way too light, said "no, thank you," and was gone?

How many of those flips of ND verbals under Weis to UNC, UGA, UF and OU and elswhere might have been kept at ND if Charlie displayed the perserverance that Kelly does in "listening to" and "working with" the confused, undecided, or bruised egos of 18, 19, and 20 year olds instead of taking the NFL attitude of "you belong to us"?

Would Charlie have shown patience or understanding with Lynch, Tuitt, Prestwood, Carlisle, or Kiel and the flexibility to take them back after they spurned him?

Charlie appears to have improved his assistant coach hiring skills at KU over his record at ND but he's still seems to be the same old Charlie in dealing with players and recruits.

That is one hell of a perspective that I never thought of. I think you might have hit the nail directly on the head. Charlie has never had a problem with his scheme, it was always his lack of developing talent and his lack of possessing the needed characteristics (as you outlined) to be a head coach at a tradition rich program that I had a problem with.

 

[phgreek]

There frequently is, but bottom line is Charlie did not want him and now he doesn't want Charlie. What's the point of keeping somebody unhappy in your program a captive?

Best I can see is they want him as security for Crist's knees this year while Heaps in ineligibile than they'll chuck him. The kid or his father is that dumb.

Charlie didn't exhibit skill in handling personnel issues with high school and college. As I read the story, CW had Powlus tell the kid he was demoted. Yes, Powlus is the QB Coach but CW is the new head coach dealing with an awkward situation of replacing the incumbent starter with a transfer that didn't play a full game last season. It's his team BUT you show some finesse in dealing with egos particularly when you need the demotee to stay on board and be ready to step in.

Anyone recall the WR, David Nelson, that verballed to Willingham before Charlie was hired. After Charlie came on board the kid wanted Charlie to make an inhome. Charlie said he was too busy preparing for the Super Bowl and told the kid if that wasn't good enough move to move on. "My way or the high way!" The kid flipped from ND to UF. Or the top ranked kicker, Kai Forbath, in another year that Charlie pressured to verbal ND when the kid wasn't ready to pull the trigger. When he wouldn't commit on Charlie's timetable, Charlie dropped him and got a verbal from Ryan Burkhart the next day? How 'bout the DE (Kellen Wade ??) that Charlie wanted to move inside to DT his last year. The kid said no because he was way too light, said "no, thank you," and was gone?

How many of those flips of ND verbals under Weis to UNC, UGA, UF and OU and elswhere might have been kept at ND if Charlie displayed the perserverance that Kelly does in "listening to" and "working with" the confused, undecided, or bruised egos of 18, 19, and 20 year olds instead of taking the NFL attitude of "you belong to us"?

Would Charlie have shown patience or understanding with Lynch, Tuitt, Prestwood, Carlisle, or Kiel and the flexibility to take them back after they spurned him?

Charlie appears to have improved his assistant coach hiring skills at KU over his record at ND but he's still seems to be the same old Charlie in dealing with players and recruits.

great perspective...agreed...thanks.

 

[irish1958]

Apparently CW's internship at ND was not as successful as he might have hoped.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Charlie didn't exhibit skill in handling personnel issues with high school and college. As I read the story, CW had Powlus tell the kid he was demoted. Yes, Powlus is the QB Coach but CW is the new head coach dealing with an awkward situation of replacing the incumbent starter with a transfer that didn't play a full game last season. It's his team BUT you show some finesse in dealing with egos particularly when you need the demotee to stay on board and be ready to step in.

Let's be clear here...Berglund wasn't getting demoted. Jordan Webb was the starter. Webb was told that he wouldn't probably be starting (I don't know who told him) and decided to leave.

Berglund was the jewel of Turner Gill's recruiting class...showed up to school, but had to go back home to deal with legal issues. He wasn't on campus at all this year.

I don't know what's going on with Weis. He doesn't want Berglund here and Brock doesn't want to play here. I assume the release will happen.

 

[BGIF]

Let's be clear here...Berglund wasn't getting demoted. Jordan Webb was the starter. Webb was told that he wouldn't probably be starting (I don't know who told him) and decided to leave.

Berglund was the jewel of Turner Gill's recruiting class...showed up to school, but had to go back home to deal with legal issues. He wasn't on campus at all this year.

I don't know what's going on with Weis. He doesn't want Berglund here and Brock doesn't want to play here. I assume the release will happen.

Thank you for the correction between Berglund and Webb. You are of course correct. Mea culpa.

The rest of comments about Weis management style with players stand on their own.

 

[phgreek]

Let's be clear here...Berglund wasn't getting demoted. Jordan Webb was the starter. Webb was told that he wouldn't probably be starting (I don't know who told him) and decided to leave.

Berglund was the jewel of Turner Gill's recruiting class...showed up to school, but had to go back home to deal with legal issues. He wasn't on campus at all this year.

I don't know what's going on with Weis. He doesn't want Berglund here and Brock doesn't want to play here. I assume the release will happen.

...starter or not, he was told he wouldn't get a shot...most decent folks go into that conversation prepared to release him if thats what he wants...and who wouldn't want to be released???

Point here is Chuck had the decency to tell him he had no chance, But....?. Did he do it while in a precarious depth position...sounds like it. We are where we are...would be good for Chuck to finish the thing, and let him go. Without letting him go, Chuck comes off an evil A$$hole....and honestly, I'm still not able to contemplate circumstances that change that.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I think all of the criticism is probably justified. BGIF is right on about Charlie's people skills.

I know that KU fans feel a bit slighted by this kid. He was paraded around as the "future" of KU football and then didn't even practice with the team because of assault charges back home. When asked about his game, he said:

“I would say Tim Tebow, Michael Vick and Peyton Manning, kind of all put together. My ability to make plays outside the pocket is a lot like Michael Vick’s,” he said. “When it’s third-and-27 and you’re just trying to get a few yards to punt, he makes a first down or a touchdown. Tim Tebow’s just a leader on the field and a motivator, and I like motivating. And I’d say I prepare like Peyton Manning does in the way that I watch tons and tons of film in a week and like to get ready for anything the defense can throw at me.”

So, I think people got frustrated with him.

That said...yes, release him.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

...starter or not, he was told he wouldn't get a shot...most decent folks go into that conversation prepared to release him if thats what he wants...and who wouldn't want to be released???

He's also a redshirt freshman who spent (I think) one spring with his college team before going home to face assault charges. He has also never experienced Weis' offense.

He was told that he would be the backup. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Again...I think they should release him from his scholarship.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Feels to me like some testosterone head-butting going on here too.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Feels to me like some testosterone head-butting going on here too.

That's exactly what it feels like to me.

 

[phgreek]

He's also a redshirt freshman who spent (I think) one spring with his college team before going home to face assault charges. He has also never experienced Weis' offense.

He was told that he would be the backup. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Again...I think they should release him from his scholarship.

we agree on the end game here...release him.

Its one thing to accept a scholarship with Andrew Luck in front of you...its one thing to get beat out...this is an entirely different deal...so I think it is unreasonable, and self-defeating for Chuck to do things like this.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

we agree on the end game here...release him.

Its one thing to accept a scholarship with Andrew Luck in front of you...its one thing to get beat out...this is an entirely different deal...so I think it is unreasonable, and self-defeating for Chuck to do things like this.

Yes, you're right. I'm just trying to provide some context.

Another quote from a Tom Keegan article in the Lawrence Journal World:

"Berglund graduated high school in time to enroll in classes at KU this past January [Note: That was LAST January...this article was written in July of 2011], which set him up for competing for the starting job in the 15 spring practices. He showed up, then went back home, took classes online, blew off spring football. Someone privy to such things said he hasn’t been seen at “voluntary” summer workouts since picture day June 15. Teammates have made it clear he’s not welcome."

 

[charlevoix.GOLDENdome]

I never have been a big Chuck fan myself (the whole being paid "huge" money after leaving ND episode, has left a bad taste in my mouth. I get the argument that a contract, is a contract; but, who among us will continue to pay the mechanic or feel good about it, when the the car is not running properly?)

IMO, Kansas will teach us a lot about him, and we will find out if Weis can coach outside of the ND spotlight. It does not bode well to start a tenure with rancour and distraction from the outset.

 

[irishfanjho15]

I never have been a big Chuck fan myself (the whole being paid "huge" money after leaving ND episode, has left a bad taste in my mouth. I get the argument that a contract, is a contract; but, who among us will continue to pay the mechanic or feel good about it, when the the car is not running properly?)

IMO, Kansas will teach us a lot about him, and we will find out if Weis can coach outside of the ND spotlight. It does not bode well to start a tenure with rancour and distraction from the outset.

ND committed the years and the money to him. It's not his fault we gave him a 10 year extension after a loss.

 

[phgreek]

Yes, you're right. I'm just trying to provide some context.

Another quote from a Tom Keegan article in the Lawrence Journal World:

"Berglund graduated high school in time to enroll in classes at KU this past January [Note: That was LAST January...this article was written in July of 2011], which set him up for competing for the starting job in the 15 spring practices. He showed up, then went back home, took classes online, blew off spring football. Someone privy to such things said he hasn’t been seen at “voluntary” summer workouts since picture day June 15. Teammates have made it clear he’s not welcome."

Thanks for the addition to the discourse...all good data, and you have the local flavor/view/perspective for sure.

...kid sounds like a challenge...sounds headstrong, spoiled, and a little wreckless. BTW not traits that exactly spell doom for a QB...but certainly define the need for him to be where someone WANTS to mentor him.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Update: Berglund was granted his release and Charlie is now telling the KU side of the story.

Weis blasts Berglund as he grants QB his release at Kansas - The Denver Post

Weis' statement said Berglund "is released from his scholarship at KU to pursue other opportunities. Brock and his representatives have publicly stated their case without any public response from me to this point. Brock spent the majority of the past calendar year in Colorado taking online courses at KU's expense, which was nearly $40,000. At no time was Brock an active participant of the football team. Once competition was recruited at the quarterback position, Brock decided he no longer wanted to be a part of the team. He was expected to show up for a mandatory team meeting on Sunday, Jan. 15, but he sent an e-mail less than two hours before the meeting to inform us that he had decided to transfer and would not be attending the meeting. He was dismissed after following through on that promise.

The only thing I'd press Weis on is that Berglund would have triggered a year of eligibility if he had shown up for that meeting.

 

[BGIF]

Update: Berglund was granted his release and Charlie is now telling the KU side of the story.

The KU side appears to be that Berglund is a prima donna. A football player on scholarship that was allowed to stay home and take online courses. The statement struck me that KU catered to a prima donna and now was unhappy because the prima donna acted like one.


...

The only thing I'd press Weis on is that Berglund would have triggered a year of eligibility if he had shown up for that meeting.

The 5 year NCAA is triggered by enrolling in a university and attending class. The 4 years of eligibilty in those 5 years is triggered by game participation. A meeting is neither a class nor a game.

I don't see any significance from an NCAA viewpoint. I do see a coach getting P.O'd for being stiffed.

EDIT:
One thing that does puzzles me is KU allowing him to take online courses in a "home study" environment. I've not heard of an NCAA scholarship being allowed to do such a thing. Are other KU students afforded the opportunity to stay home and take classes online? If not that sounds like an "extra benefit". BTW, the article did not mention if the online courses were even online at KU or at some diploma mill.

From a PR standpoint, CW and KU handled this poorly.

 

[Grahambo]

KU Independent Study : Course Catalog

Looks like KU does offer online courses.

 

[irish1958]

This type of monkey -bissness has been around for the greater part of the last century. Before the internet this was accomplished via correspondent courses by mail. I know of several "student athletes" who used this dodge to become or remain eligible.

 

[BGIF]

This type of monkey -bissness has been around for the greater part of the last century. Before the internet this was accomplished via correspondent courses by mail. I know of several "student athletes" who used this dodge to become or remain eligible.

You know several who have taken an online or correspondence course or courses to remain eligible but do you know of anyone else besides Berglund who stayed home and apparently took all his courses online?

Stark difference.

 

[BGIF]

KU Independent Study : Course Catalog

Looks like KU does offer online courses.

And according to that website KO accepts them for credit:

... Independent Study courses are approved for undergraduate and graduate KU credit ...