Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[kmoose]

I clearly said I am NOT making that argument. I have not made that argument. I injected myself at the point you said that 3 player interviews was valid to support the opinion that the team supports BK. I simply said no that is not true. I expounded saying for me that the on field actions/results are concerning and more telling to the state of the team than an interview with 0.1% of the team. That is ALL. Anything else is you making shit up. I dont appreciate that. You then proceed to not address my points and inject that because offense is good and young guys are getting snaps that somehow negates my points about senior leadership, lack of motivation and drive that Kelly himself has gone on record about...while valid to a degree is unconvincing IMO. Who is moving the goal post....

But you still wont answer my question as to WHY IS THE TEAM 2-4 WITH THIS TALENT? It is a simple straight forward question. One you have now dodged three times. But I am sure you will pull a "God of the Gaps" type shift to point to some minutae or discrepancy moving the goal posts again.

I can't tell you why this team is 2-4 with the talent we have. The Defense was obviously a big problem. The Defensive Coordinator is now gone. The Defense appeared to make a pretty solid improvement in performance, the week after. But that requires taking into account that they only 4 days to institute the changes. I think that the defensive leaders might be guys who are in their first year of starting, and might even be underclassmen. That might explain why you don't see a lot of emotion on the sidelines. But you don't deny that the team is fighting hard? I mean, if they had given up, then why would they bother fighting so hard to the end? But, beyond that........ how do you know that there is no senior leadership stepping up? I mean, how many minutes of sideline footage do we normally see? Maybe the seniors are more of the "steady" guys during the game, but get fiery with the rest of the team in the locker room or on the practice field? Maybe some of the seniors are upset that younger guys are starting in front of them? When I see a team fighting hard to win, I just can't imagine that they have given up. When the leadership of that team speaks in support of their Head Coach, I take that at face value. If they were giving up in the 4Q every week, and they said good things about the coach; I would probably question the veracity of their words.

 

[WestCoast]

 

[WestCoast]

 

[WestCoast]

My comparison would be Hoke and Harbaugh. Harbaugh has turned Hokes mediocre players into NFL talent in the span of 2 years. They are headed to 11-0 before their pants get taken down at OSU but will be in the chatter for a playoff spot . All with plugin QBs and RBs.

BK, 7 years, 1 NC championship decleating and losses to teams that really matter [and some that don't matter]. This team should NOT be 2-4 in year 7.

This should have been the last post in the thread. I'm locking it up.

 

[Cackalacky]

I can't tell you why this team is 2-4 with the talent we have.

Thank you. It is inexplicable IMO.

The Defense was obviously a big problem. The Defensive Coordinator is now gone. The Defense appeared to make a pretty solid improvement in performance, the week after. But that requires taking into account that they only 4 days to institute the changes.

While BVG is gone, his system is still in place until the players are reconditioned. Like I said before I cant really separate pre-BVG and post BVG results. They were not great against Syracuse, sure, as to be expected. I discount player achievements in the NCSU game. The results of that game land primarily on BK's feet IMO.

I think that the defensive leaders might be guys who are in their first year of starting, and might even be underclassmen. That might explain why you don't see a lot of emotion on the sidelines.

Who are the defensive leaders though? I don't mean captains. I mean leaders. Do we know? Why not? Isn't that curious? I could always tell in years past. That speaks volumes to me. Same with the offense. Who are the leaders? Do we have any? Cant tell. MCGlitchy? sure I guess. Kizer... possibly. He is not vocal.

The pre-Syracuse presser had some choice BK quotes:

Q: You were fairly tough on your roster after the game on Saturday. How often can you go the to that whip before they start of tune it out and it's not effective anymore?

Brian Kelly: You know, I don't know that I was that tough on the roster as much as I was tough on my coaches. I think when you tell your coaches that they're on a job interview for the rest of the season, that seems to be pretty tough, more so than saying there is a standard of play at a particular position.

But you guys can interpret it any way you want. It's my team, and I don't think that I'm too tough on 'em. I think there is an expectation that you have at Notre Dame, and that you need to play that way.

Now, having said that, it still falls on me. If this team is not playing well, it's my fault. It's my fault that they're not playing well. So I have to find the solutions to it. After a game, when you're frustrated with the play, everybody is on notice. I'm on notice, and I made that pretty clear that I'm responsible. I said our coaches were on notice, and I said our players were on notice.

But you don't deny that the team is fighting hard? I mean, if they had given up, then why would they bother fighting so hard to the end?

Per the presser referenced above:

Q. I had the sense if you say someone doesn't play with passion is that the best way to get someone to suddenly play with passion?

Brian Kelly: No, no, I have to be able to find out what are the reasons that we're not playing with passion? I've made some changes, obviously, some significant changes, within my staff, that go to maybe some of the reasons why we weren't. And there are other things that have to continue to evolve for us to continue to move in the direction that I want.

Passion is only one element. Attitude, passion, accountability, responsibility, all of those things are within this team that I have to help grow, quite frankly, and that falls on my shoulders.

Q. There have been people that have asked me about the talent level. Is this talent good enough to be a better than average defense?
Brian Kelly: Yes, it's inexperience and it's overused. It's overused. We've got some guys out there that are dog tired trying to do things and they got too many reps and we got too many good players sitting behind them watching and we've gotta get them in the game and we've got to trust them and we've got to coach 'em and get them in the game and that's on me.

Q. You talked so much about urgency and passion and those types of things and you put a lot of it on the coaching staff. But I'm curious, a lot of this would have to come from the players. What is your level of satisfaction that you're getting from senior leadership and in particular your team captains at this point?

Brian Kelly: Well, you know, I think the mix here is morale and attitude that comes from me. I have to create that. They were part of a junior class where we lost five juniors in that class, you know? Those five were Alpha dogs that were in that class with them. They were part of that class, too, and they lost a significant group of leaders in that class as well. So it's my job to create that attitude within the ranks. I have obviously not done a good enough job and that's why we are 1-3. Now, they've got to play better. They've got to execute better. There is no question about it. But, look, the pieces that we're missing, yeah, we're inexperienced in a number of areas and primarily in some key areas, but what we're missing are ingredients that we can fix quick and that's why we made the change that we did.

He specifically says they are not playing with the passion he wants. Regardless if its a challenge or a critique, that is a pretty damning statement. He also specifically talks about losing lots of leadership from last year, but does not mention any for this year? One it says they are not playing up to his standard. Two, it says he has to find ways to motivate them effectively and figure out why they are not motivated. That is concerning to me.

But, beyond that........ how do you know that there is no senior leadership stepping up? I mean, how many minutes of sideline footage do we normally see? Maybe the seniors are more of the "steady" guys during the game, but get fiery with the rest of the team in the locker room or on the practice field? Maybe some of the seniors are upset that younger guys are starting in front of them?

No one knows who the leadership is outside of the captains. It is certainly not obvious on the field. I dont know what to tell you if you watch a game this year and see a team ready to play out of the gate and excited about it. Hell I watched them run out of the tunnel for MSU and what I saw was a tepid entrance (on tv at least).

When I see a team fighting hard to win, I just can't imagine that they have given up. When the leadership of that team speaks in support of their Head Coach, I take that at face value. If they were giving up in the 4Q every week, and they said good things about the coach; I would probably question the veracity of their words.

Well this is the crux. Is it hard to imagine that Malik has given up? Is it hard to imagine that upperclassmen losing their positions to young guys because of the their inability to grasp or perform a complex defensive system and their HC defending him till the bitter end after all is lost? Is it hard to imagine that even before the game is played the offense steps out of the tunnel KNOWING they have to put up 35+ points and a clean game on top of that against even the worst of the opponents on their schedule because the ST and defense are soooo bad? Giving up is not the same being defeated before the game even starts. I think Kelly's quotes speak loud and clear to me.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I think it is a larger issue of coaching failure to address obvious tactical situations and refuse to adjust to the situation on the ground. That is what has me out of BKs camp. Just because the offense is producing well does not mean they are optimizing it. If you have an elite offense it SHOULD be putting up 50 points game on the likes of Duke, Syracuse and NC State.

This is along the same lines as I was talking about. Same reason I think a change would be good for both parties.
However, I don't think 50+ is possible in the situation we played in last week. Even if we didn't have an opponent.

 

[phork]

A brief history of Notre Dame’s Brian Kelly blaming other people for losses - SBNation.com

 

[WestCoast]

For the record, I opened the thread back up for a few more comments. I didn't want anyone thinking I let people challenge my authority around here.

Best part of phork's article:

Ty Willingham and Charlie Weis led Notre Dame to farts.

Ok, for reelz this time. Lockitup

 

[scUM Hater]

I am SO DAMN SICK of people criticizing Kelly for his "Red" face. If you look at a majority of parents at a High school game in the stands, you will see the same Red face against the refs and coaches for not playing junior. At least Kelly hasn't put a ref in a head lock.

 

[WestCoast]

Kelly works out with Longo, so maybe he doesn't have the strength to put anyone in a head lock?

 

[loomis41973]

ND makes many players soft for some reason...has the same happened to BK?

I think so.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

ND makes many players soft for some reason...has the same happened to BK?

I think so.

Do you think Nyles Morgan is soft?


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[loomis41973]

Do you think Nyles Morgan is soft?


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Did i say all?

 

[kmoose]

ND makes many players soft for some reason

Like who?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Like who?

All the guys who need to spend a week on "Longo Beach" eating jelly doughnuts and talking about their feelings.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Did i say all?

No you did not. But, I was asking if you think Nyles Morgan is soft. I was not making a condescending question.


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[NDShark]

What do you mean by saying that good things will come once "this" team puts it together? The time for that has long past. We probably won't even make the Lysol Bowl, but so what if we do? It's year 7. The only good thing that might come of this season is that we get a new coach.

I'm specifically talking about all of the inexperienced players on the roster putting it together. Clearly, we're not reaching any pre-season aspirations. However, wins can still come this season, and I would consider those things good. CBK has many pieces to be competitive next year given the team (the inexperienced folks, specifically) make some strides this season. Oh yeah, that's why making it to the Lysol Bowl is important -- we get 15 (ish?) extra practices with numerous freshmen contributors. Regardless of who is coaching next year, that's important.

On that topic, like many others have warned, be careful what you wish for. Who exactly is going to replace CBK and do a better job, realistically?

 

[NDgradstudent]

CBK has many pieces to be competitive next year given the team (the inexperienced folks, specifically) make some strides this season.

I can think of one piece -the QB- that will not be around next year. The last two seasons we've had an outstanding QB, and they have been squandered. What other pieces will we have next year that we didn't have this year?

On that topic, like many others have warned, be careful what you wish for. Who exactly is going to replace CBK and do a better job, realistically?

There's a pretty long list at this point. Any of the names circulated here will do- it is pretty clear to me that Kelly ain't the guy.

 

[NDShark]

I can think of one piece -the QB- that will not be around next year. The last two seasons we've had an outstanding QB, and they have been squandered. What other pieces will we have next year that we didn't have this year?



There's a pretty long list at this point. Any of the names circulated here will do- it is pretty clear to me that Kelly ain't the guy.

Kizer is all-world, but, it's not like we don't have great players that can man that position if he leaves.

There sure are a pretty long list of candidates ranging from Nick Saban to Jon Gruden to Tom Herman to Jim Tressel to PJ Fleck depending on who you ask. Lots of question marks and "NEVER IN THIS WORLD!" candidates in a lot of the lists I've seen. I'm worried about slipping back into a coaching abyss if CBK is canned, plus I feel like Kelly's built up enough karma to give it another go. I'm certainly not as sure as you and others that getting rid of Kelly would improve our future chances / competitiveness.

 

[philipm31]

Kizer is all-world, but, it's not like we don't have great players that can man that position if he leaves.

There sure are a pretty long list of candidates ranging from Nick Saban to Jon Gruden to Tom Herman to Jim Tressel to PJ Fleck depending on who you ask. Lots of question marks and "NEVER IN THIS WORLD!" candidates in a lot of the lists I've seen. I'm worried about slipping back into a coaching abyss if CBK is canned, plus I feel like Kelly's built up enough karma to give it another go. I'm certainly not as sure as you and others that getting rid of Kelly would improve our future chances / competitiveness.

Nonetheless, we will be losing TWO QBs, because you know MZ is not hanging around another year.

So, do we trust our #3 QB to ascend to #1 next spring? And for us to be able to lure another top QB here when we have lost so many already?

 

[IrishLax]

You have to assume Kelly is given next year regardless of whether we finish 3-9 or 8-4 (lol). So the question is really 1) how does he do next year? 2) if he's fired, who do we get?

I think next year will be a much better year for grabbing a coach than this one. I also think with a boat load of returning starters + Wimbush that we likely win 9+ games. For replacements next year, I imagine Fleck, Rhule, etc. will be your hot up-and-coming names, and Chip Kelly will be the hot retread after getting fired by the 49ers. So then it's question of waiting to see who the "surprises" are... guys like Fuente and Herman in 2015... that ascend to being hot names based on on great seasons. I think Larry Fedora is definitely a name to watch as he is oh so close to putting it all together in Chapel Hill.

 

[Cackalacky]

You have to assume Kelly is given next year regardless of whether we finish 3-9 or 8-4 (lol). So the question is really 1) how does he do next year? 2) if he's fired, who do we get?

I think next year will be a much better year for grabbing a coach than this one. I also think with a boat load of returning starters + Wimbush that we likely win 9+ games. For replacements next year, I imagine Fleck, Rhule, etc. will be your hot up-and-coming names, and Chip Kelly will be the hot retread after getting fired by the 49ers. So then it's question of waiting to see who the "surprises" are... guys like Fuente and Herman in 2015... that ascend to being hot names based on on great seasons. I think Larry Fedora is definitely a name to watch as he is oh so close to putting it all together in Chapel Hill.

I was thinking about Fedora too. I am still highly interested in Venables though I don't know if he would leave the south. Agree that BK most likely gets one more year no matter how bad he does.

Edit. Didn't Gilmore coach at UNC with Fedora?

 

[irishff1014]

I haven't looked but if we get a new coach he has to be defensive minded. To the public eye with out looking a stats UNC defense isn't much better.

 

[Cackalacky]

I haven't looked but if we get a new coach he has to be defensive minded. To the public eye with out looking a stats UNC defense isn't much better.

He doesn't have to be a defensive minded coach. We just need a coach that can get all three phases playing well.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Now we can count Duke and NC State as "good" losses! Lol.

 

[kmoose]

Nonetheless, we will be losing TWO QBs, because you know MZ is not hanging around another year.

So, do we trust our #3 QB to ascend to #1 next spring? And for us to be able to lure another top QB here when we have lost so many already?

I think Zaire sticks around if Kizer leaves, probably. Zaire could transfer and play immediately, assuming he graduates(which he is on schedule to do). But he would have to learn a whole new offense, and would only be able to play for one year. If he stays at ND, he might not be happy about the way things went down, but he would know the offense, and would have a better opportunity to be successful as an individual.

 

[TheChosen1]

Bump

 

[Riddickulous]

I thought signing him to an extension was a good decision at the time, but it looks so, so bad in hindsight. Good grief.

 

[Expert_Analyst]

No Statue for Kelly

No Statue for Kelly

He's been a mediocre coach all along. I think he should be let go now.

 

[greyhammer90]

Time for fun questions with drunk Greyhammer. Out of the teams that we consider academic contemporaries who hav we beaten the last time we played?

Hint:

Its not duke northwestern stanford