Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

Brian Kelly Revisited


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Butchie

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Wow I disagree pretty strongly with most of this. How long ago did you attend ND? To call them a "sleazy, secular institution" because they allow professors to "teach feminism and homosexuality" is pretty nuts. The only people I know who think ND isn't exceedingly Catholic are people who also think global warming isn't real and Obama was born in Kenya.

Anyways, to the important part. I can't tell exactly what you're advocating for, but it sounds as if your frustration is in the caliber of kids we admit? I'm not sure what else "hiding behind morality as an excuse to be cheap" could be because they're pouring way more money into the football program than the majority of students wants. Reaction to Campus Crossroads is hugely negative. The overwhelming majority of faculty and students want ND to be cheaper regarding the football program and spend that money elsewhere, such as on financial aid. To call ND "cheap" regarding the football program again shows a lack of awareness about what's really going on on campus.

To think that a comparison to Stanford casts our athletic department in a negative light is laughable. In no way whatsoever is Stanford more "flexible" than us. We spend far and away more money on football than them and also accept more recruits (see Niklas for example). To point at them is just a gut reaction of "they're winning right this second and we're not, let's be like them."

Let's say you were in charge of ND. What would you do for us to realize our religion more on campus? Fire teachers that "teach homosexuality?" What would you do to invest more in the football program? Up Crossroads from a half billion project to a whole billion? Your post really isn't rooted in reality, but somehow it seems to be a common sentiment among the older alumni, so I am interested in trying to understand it.

On your last words: "Fire teachers that "teach homosexuality?" UUHH . . .YES!
because they allow professors to "teach feminism" UUHH. . . . How about respecting all human beings and not picking a gender to align with or a movement that breeds hate. Oh & fire them too!
"What would you do to invest more in the football program?" UUHH . . . relax admissions for athletes.
So only older persons can't have a conservative view of how things should be. You seem to have an age bias. Just because your liberal views don't align with Catholicism doesn't mean IKKY's post does not have some merit.
 

ThePiombino

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Stunned by the poll. Apparently 83 people want Bob Diaco or worse as our head coach. If Kelly isn't our coach next year, someone much, much worse than him will be. I get the gut impulse of bad results = fire coach without thinking things through, but man. Thank god Jack Swarbrick is in charge instead of this board.

Not a given, but definitely likely.

How has letting a bunch of underperforming assistants stay on your staff worked out for you so far?

Oh, we're sorry that we don't have 38 head coaches on our "support staff"
 

Butchie

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If you want to make an omelette, you gotta break some eggs. I wouldn't object to gutting EVERYONE under BK and getting a complete fresh start. Recruiting is meaningless if the guys coaching them don't get them ready to play anyways.

I agree SteelHead. We gotta start doing something. I'm tired of getting Oh so close & falling short. It was funny to me after last week's loss & presser. Saban was unhappy after curb stomping USC, but Kelly criticizes players & coaches & himself after his 3rd loss & he's creating a "divide" Please. He should have went ape $h!t after Texas.
 

ickythump1225

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Stunned by the poll. Apparently 83 people want Bob Diaco or worse as our head coach. If Kelly isn't our coach next year, someone much, much worse than him will be. I get the gut impulse of bad results = fire coach without thinking things through, but man. Thank god Jack Swarbrick is in charge instead of this board.
That's the kind of small thinking we need to lead the program forward. "Brian Kelly 2017: Because it's the best we can possibly do!"

Don't get me wrong, BK is the in the upper echelon of coaches we can get in our current paradigm, but the idea that we shouldn't make a change because all we can get is Bob Diaco is small thinking that will ensure the program remains a 8-5 program.

The thing is BK has probably peaked at ND and he will never recapture the magic of 2012. Everyone by now knows how I feel about ND's administration but there are fundamental problems in our football program that are directly BK's fault. Hiring and keeping BVG is his fault. BVG's lack of recruiting and inability to teach sound fundamentals on defense ultimately land at BK's feet. With a real college defensive coordinator ND might be playing in the playoffs last year. ND would probably be at least 3-2 if not 4-1 right now.

ND's lack of energy in every big game they have played in outside of Oklahoma 2012 and most of FSU 2014 is BK's fault. How many times has the MSU game from this year played out in BK's tenure? Low to no energy to start, sleep walking, mental errors, etc. Now more often than not we overcome those but the fact that we are 2-3 with a horrendous defense in year SEVEN of BK's tenure is unacceptable. By year 7 a coach has either proved to be elite or has peaked and is in decline. Tell me which one of those applies to BK.

If BK was the coach to take us to the "next level" he would have done so by now. All the great ND coaches won a title by year 3. Saban won a title in year 3 at Alabama (it took him until year 4 to win a title at LSU but by then he had already won a SEC title and a Sugar Bowl). Urban Meyer won a title at UF by year 2 and OSU by year 3. Stoops won a title in year 2. Even Miles won a title by year 3 at LSU. Sneaky Pete won his first title in 2003 in year 3. It took Steve Spurrier 7 years to finally win a title at Florida, but he won 4 SEC titles prior to that.

The biggest outlier that I can think of off the top of my head is Bobby Bowden who was the coach at FSU for 17 years before he captured his first NC but from 1987 to 2000 the Seminoles finished every season with at least 10 wins and in the top 5 of the AP Poll.

BK is not the guy to take us the promised land. He is going to struggle to get to 7 wins this year.
 

NDgradstudent

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Let's say you were in charge of ND. What would you do for us to realize our religion more on campus? Fire teachers that "teach homosexuality?" What would you do to invest more in the football program? Up Crossroads from a half billion project to a whole billion? Your post really isn't rooted in reality, but somehow it seems to be a common sentiment among the older alumni, so I am interested in trying to understand it.

I'm currently a graduate student at ND. I have taught undergrads (including football players). There are a list of things that ND should not be doing- permitting Obama to speak was a huge blunder (and heaven forbid they invite Clinton- a huge number of students might skip graduation rather than be lectured by her, especially as her party moves to attack Catholic education and use tax money for abortions). Fawning treatment of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who is contemptuous of the religious liberties of Catholics and fanatically pro-abortion, is similarly embarrassing. She should be allowed to speak on campus -everyone should be allowed to speak on campus- but, as Prof. Garnett of the Law School has explained, there is a difference between what is said at a Catholic university and what a Catholic university says. Such people should not be honored by ND, under any circumstances.

(I should note that the administration seems utterly unaware of how controversial the Obama visit remains. During the Hesburgh memorial, for example, a former president of Princeton praised Fr. Hesburgh and Fr. Jenkins for honoring Obama, as if everyone at ND now accepts that it was a good decision. Of course, plenty of students and alumni, not to mention everyone else who cares about ND, do not accept that it was a good decision.)

Why is ND special? One reason is that it attracts people like Rick Garnett- and innumerable other people who want to be at ND specifically because it is Catholic. We aren't Harvard, and should not try to be, as Cardinal Dolan remarked in his Commencement address two years ago. Even Fr. Jenkins, who otherwise seems to slavishly follow academic trends, has said that ND needs to be the best ND it can be, not imitate somewhere else (despite this sounding like a human resources poster, it is true).

The consistency the ND administration shows is this: it wants to be Harvard. Or Stanford. Or whatever. This is why it is embarrassed both by ND's Catholicity and the importance of its football program. (Yes, Stanford has football, but it is more of a fun hobby than a central or defining feature of the school.) In reality, the reason that ND should not be a 'factory' is because it is Catholic, not because it is Harvard. Treating football players as essentially money-making machines, rather than trying to cultivate their personalities and intellects, is not what a good Catholic school should do.

I have documented in several posts here that the main problem at ND is not academic restrictions. Our offered players in 2015 were almost exactly equal in rating to those offered by Ohio State. The fact that we did not sign as many of the top players as OSU is not the fault of admissions. You can't tell me that if Urban Meyer were the coach here we wouldn't be winning titles because of academic restrictions. He'd be landing enough of the best guys, and coaching them up. The problem with the administration is less a lack of desire to win than a specific incompetence at picking coaches.

And yeah, the FB stadium deserved an upgrade, but Crossroads is goofy looking. It was a foolish decision. But that is something both lefty profs, conservative ultra-Catholic profs, and FB fans all agree upon.
 
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Butchie

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That's the kind of small thinking we need to lead the program forward. "Brian Kelly 2017: Because it's the best we can possibly do!"

Don't get me wrong, BK is the in the upper echelon of coaches we can get in our current paradigm, but the idea that we shouldn't make a change because all we can get is Bob Diaco is small thinking that will ensure the program remains a 8-5 program.

The thing is BK has probably peaked at ND and he will never recapture the magic of 2012. Everyone by now knows how I feel about ND's administration but there are fundamental problems in our football program that are directly BK's fault. Hiring and keeping BVG is his fault. BVG's lack of recruiting and inability to teach sound fundamentals on defense ultimately land at BK's feet. With a real college defensive coordinator ND might be playing in the playoffs last year. ND would probably be at least 3-2 if not 4-1 right now.

ND's lack of energy in every big game they have played in outside of Oklahoma 2012 and most of FSU 2014 is BK's fault. How many times has the MSU game from this year played out in BK's tenure? Low to no energy to start, sleep walking, mental errors, etc. Now more often than not we overcome those but the fact that we are 2-3 with a horrendous defense in year SEVEN of BK's tenure is unacceptable. By year 7 a coach has either proved to be elite or has peaked and is in decline. Tell me which one of those applies to BK.

If BK was the coach to take us to the "next level" he would have done so by now. All the great ND coaches won a title by year 3. Saban won a title in year 3 at Alabama (it took him until year 4 to win a title at LSU but by then he had already won a SEC title and a Sugar Bowl). Urban Meyer won a title at UF by year 2 and OSU by year 3. Stoops won a title in year 2. Even Miles won a title by year 3 at LSU. Sneaky Pete won his first title in 2003 in year 3. It took Steve Spurrier 7 years to finally win a title at Florida, but he won 4 SEC titles prior to that.

The biggest outlier that I can think of off the top of my head is Bobby Bowden who was the coach at FSU for 17 years before he captured his first NC but from 1987 to 2000 the Seminoles finished every season with at least 10 wins and in the top 5 of the AP Poll.

BK is not the guy to take us the promised land. He is going to struggle to get to 7 wins this year.

Lack of recruiting? Don't drink that Kool-Aid. That defense is peppered with 4 star athletes. Not coaching them up . . . I'll agree with that as it is obvious, but the talent is present.
 

ickythump1225

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Wow I disagree pretty strongly with most of this. How long ago did you attend ND? To call them a "sleazy, secular institution" because they allow professors to "teach feminism and homosexuality" is pretty nuts. The only people I know who think ND isn't exceedingly Catholic are people who also think global warming isn't real and Obama was born in Kenya.
Nice meme you've got there.

Anyways, to the important part. I can't tell exactly what you're advocating for, but it sounds as if your frustration is in the caliber of kids we admit? I'm not sure what else "hiding behind morality as an excuse to be cheap" could be because they're pouring way more money into the football program than the majority of students wants. Reaction to Campus Crossroads is hugely negative. The overwhelming majority of faculty and students want ND to be cheaper regarding the football program and spend that money elsewhere, such as on financial aid. To call ND "cheap" regarding the football program again shows a lack of awareness about what's really going on on campus.

To think that a comparison to Stanford casts our athletic department in a negative light is laughable. In no way whatsoever is Stanford more "flexible" than us. We spend far and away more money on football than them and also accept more recruits (see Niklas for example). To point at them is just a gut reaction of "they're winning right this second and we're not, let's be like them."
Ridiculous. 1 player isn't proof of anything. I guarantee you Stanford is far more flexible in their recruiting standards. Putting that aside they seem to be able to recruit tough kids, ND recruits softer kids. In the biggest game in ND's program since Lou Holtz roamed the sidelines they got absolutely raped by Alabama. In every "instant classic" we've been involved in under BK over the past 3-4 years we have come up on the wrong end of them damn near every time.

If you think upgrading the Gug or building the Crossroads is in the same league of investment as the top tier programs I just vehemently disagree with you. Like another poster said, we are about 10-15 years behind every program. I talked to a guy at my work who played for SDSU like 20-30 years ago about how ND just got a training table relatively recently and he was shocked. They had shit like that at San Diego State when he played. ND makes a moderate investment 20 years behind the curve and then says "SEE! We are committed now enjoy your 8 win season and shut up while we count our money." ND is the most powerful brand in college sports and one of the most powerful athletic brands period in the country, we could throw our weight around a lot more than we do.

Let's say you were in charge of ND. What would you do for us to realize our religion more on campus? Fire teachers that "teach homosexuality?" What would you do to invest more in the football program? Up Crossroads from a half billion project to a whole billion? Your post really isn't rooted in reality, but somehow it seems to be a common sentiment among the older alumni, so I am interested in trying to understand it.
My point isn't that teaching homosexuality or given endorsement to pro-abortion politicians is bad (I do believe firmly that it is), it's that it is hypocritical of the institution to hide behind morality on the football field but openly flaunt non/anti-Catholic positions in the academic and social sphere when they are supposed to be a Catholic institution. If they cared about winning on the football field like they care about keeping up with leftist Current Yearist social, political, and religious trends they would be winning 10-12 games a year.

If my post isn't "rooted in reality" please tell me that ND does NOT:
-openly invite several pro-choice politicians to speak at the university and in fact honored them in direct defiance of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops which states: "The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions."

-teach modernist gender theory which directly contradicts long standing and firmly established Catholic doctrine as laid out by several Church Fathers, theologians, Church Doctors, and Popes

-give support to LGBT groups again in direct contradiction to firmly established Catholic doctrine

I don't want to turn this into a religious debate because it is not the correct place for that, but this illustrates a willingness to completely disregard Catholic sexual and moral teaching when it suits them but they hide behind their morals when it comes to opening up admissions to more competitive players. I'm not even asking them to become LSU or Alabama, but there exists a ground between where we are now and where the SEC occupies. A relatively minor academic infraction can cost your team their starting QB for the whole season, what top flight coach is going to want to deal with that? When you weigh that against ND honoring pro-abortion politicians like Obama or Biden it starts to ring a little hollow. It starts to feel like empty virtue signalling.
For what it's worth I'm 28.
 

ickythump1225

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Lack of recruiting? Don't drink that Kool-Aid. That defense is peppered with 4 star athletes. Not coaching them up . . . I'll agree with that as it is obvious, but the talent is present.
How many of our defense starters would play for Michigan, Alabama, Florida, LSU, or any other top flight defensive program in the country?

Also, BVG left a lot of gaps in his recruiting. Our secondary and LB corps are light. Any pass put in the air could be taken to the house.
 

GATTACA!

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How many of our defense starters would play for Michigan, Alabama, Florida, LSU, or any other top flight defensive program in the country?

Also, BVG left a lot of gaps in his recruiting. Our secondary and LB corps are light. Any pass put in the air could be taken to the house.

Morgan. Vaughn probably next year.
 

ickythump1225

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I'm currently a graduate student at ND. I have taught undergrads (including football players). There are a list of things that ND should not be doing- permitting Obama to speak was a huge blunder (and heaven forbid they invite Clinton- a huge number of students might skip graduation rather than be lectured by her, especially as her party moves to attack Catholic education and use tax money for abortions). Fawning treatment of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who is contemptuous of the religious liberties of Catholics and fanatically pro-abortion, is similarly embarrassing. She should be allowed to speak on campus -everyone should be allowed to speak on campus- but, as Prof. Garnett of the Law School has explained, there is a difference between what is said at a Catholic university and what a Catholic university says. Such people should not be honored by ND, under any circumstances.

(I should note that the administration seems utterly unaware of how controversial the Obama visit remains. During the Hesburgh memorial, for example, a former president of Princeton praised Fr. Hesburgh and Fr. Jenkins for honoring Obama, as if everyone at ND now accepts that it was a good decision. Of course, plenty of students and alumni, not to mention everyone else who cares about ND, do not accept that it was a good decision.)

Why is ND special? One reason is that it attracts people like Rick Garnett- and innumerable other people who want to be at ND specifically because it is Catholic. We aren't Harvard, and should not try to be, as Cardinal Dolan remarked in his Commencement address two years ago. Even Fr. Jenkins, who otherwise seems to slavishly follow academic trends, has said that ND needs to be the best ND it can be, not imitate somewhere else (despite this sounding like a human resources poster, it is true).

The consistency the ND administration shows is this: it wants to be Harvard. Or Stanford. Or whatever. This is why it is embarrassed both by ND's Catholicity and the importance of its football program. (Yes, Stanford has football, but it is more of a fun hobby than a central or defining feature of the school.) In reality, the reason that ND should not be a 'factory' is because it is Catholic, not because it is Harvard. Treating football players as essentially money-making machines, rather than trying to cultivate their personalities and intellects, is not what a good Catholic school should do.

I have documented in several posts here that the main problem at ND is not academic restrictions. Our offered players in 2015 were almost exactly equal in rating to those offered by Ohio State. The fact that we did not sign as many of the top players as OSU is not the fault of admissions. You can't tell me that if Urban Meyer were the coach here we wouldn't be winning titles because of academic restrictions. He'd be landing enough of the best guys, and coaching them up. The problem with the administration is less a lack of desire to win than a specific incompetence at picking coaches.

And yeah, the FB stadium deserved an upgrade, but Crossroads is goofy looking. It was a foolish decision. But that is something both lefty profs, conservative ultra-Catholic profs, and FB fans all agree upon.
Wish I could rep this GREAT post.
 

Sherm Sticky

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How many of our defense starters would play for Michigan, Alabama, Florida, LSU, or any other top flight defensive program in the country?



Also, BVG left a lot of gaps in his recruiting. Our secondary and LB corps are light. Any pass put in the air could be taken to the house.



Secondary light I agree. But I cannot agree about LB. Morgan, Coney, JO, Martini, Bilal all contributing. Behind them Barajas, Jones and Jones and the three 2017 recruits. That is solid. Our LB's have been the best group on the defense side of the ball this year.


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arahop

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I keep hearing. The whole "kelly sbould blow up the staff argument" The leader of the program selected BVG., Longo,Gilmore,Lyght. Don't get it twisted BK is the problem . Sick of hearing the excuses for him. BK style was effective in 2008. Football progressed and he didn't . Hes an 8-9 wins a year coach. In year 7 he will be 7-5 or worse. How can anyone be a supporter of him. Id love to hear more about it! ??
 

NDgradstudent

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I keep hearing. The whole "kelly sbould blow up the staff argument" The leader of the program selected BVG., Longo,Gilmore,Lyght. Don't get it twisted BK is the problem . Sick of hearing the excuses for him. BK style was effective in 2008. Football progressed and he didn't . Hes an 8-9 wins a year coach. In year 7 he will be 7-5 or worse. How can anyone be a supporter of him. Id love to hear more about it! ??

It's simple: few of the BK supporters (currently 97 of them in the survey) are true BK believers. It's just that they are so traumatized by years of DWW that they fear going back to 3-9. It's battered spouse syndrome on a massive scale.
 

Riddickulous

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If we can hire a competent DC and we field at least an average defense next year, I think we'll win 10+ games. Offense will be absolutely loaded.
 

Sherm Sticky

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I keep hearing. The whole "kelly sbould blow up the staff argument" The leader of the program selected BVG., Longo,Gilmore,Lyght. Don't get it twisted BK is the problem . Sick of hearing the excuses for him. BK style was effective in 2008. Football progressed and he didn't . Hes an 8-9 wins a year coach. In year 7 he will be 7-5 or worse. How can anyone be a supporter of him. Id love to hear more about it! ??



Notre Dame wins and we have to hear this...


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NDRock

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I keep hearing. The whole "kelly sbould blow up the staff argument" The leader of the program selected BVG., Longo,Gilmore,Lyght. Don't get it twisted BK is the problem . Sick of hearing the excuses for him. BK style was effective in 2008. Football progressed and he didn't . Hes an 8-9 wins a year coach. In year 7 he will be 7-5 or worse. How can anyone be a supporter of him. Id love to hear more about it! ??

Some probably don't have confidence in the administration of ND to hire a competent coach as they've not had a great track record the last 20 years. Some probably think the problem is more systemic than just Kelly and that only a Saben or Meyer could fix it. Some probably hope we're just a good DC away from winning 10 games every year.
 

arahop

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It's simple: few of the BK supporters (currently 97 of them in the survey) are true BK believers. It's just that they are so traumatized by years of DWW that they fear going back to 3-9. It's battered spouse syndrome on a massive scale.

Sadly I agree. If you think about the talent ND is putting in the league it makes me even more pissed that Kelly doesn't have a better record. Then we will hear the the academic excuse. Except we have lost to Stanford,Northwestern, amd Duke the last time we played those academic powerhouses. Frankly makes me want to puke.
 

stlnd01

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It's simple: few of the BK supporters (currently 97 of them in the survey) are true BK believers. It's just that they are so traumatized by years of DWW that they fear going back to 3-9. It's battered spouse syndrome on a massive scale.

Are you old enough to remember 3-9? I am. I also remember 7-6 under Davie, and when that felt like a victory because deep down we all secretly knew the offense blew chunks even though we liked to pretend otherwise. And I'm able to look at this team that can score 40 at will on anyone even though things get rough sometimes on defense and know that it's not all so bad, that we could probably be undefeated right now with a better DC, and hope that maybe we now have that better DC and that we win most if not all of the rest of our games against good but flawed opponents, and return 19 talented starters next year, and know that maybe firing Kelly in the vain hope that Notre Dame will sell its soul to land an Urban Meyer (b/c our soul, not more cash, is what it will require) is a fools game that most likely fails anyway, ending in 15 more years wandering the darkness of "irrelevancy." And TBH I don't think that's "battered spouse syndrome" so much as a realistic view of where we sit in this day and age.
 

arahop

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Notre Dame wins and we have to hear this...


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Yeah I feel super good about beating Syracuse allowing 500 yards of total offense and forcing zero Turnovers. Glad they won. Does not change my opinion on Kelly.
 

Sherm Sticky

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Yeah I feel super good about beating Syracuse allowing 500 yards of total offense and forcing zero Turnovers. Glad they won. Does not change my opinion on Kelly.



You are not a Notre Dame fan. You are a troll!

A true fan would be happy that the team they loved won. A true fan would root for their team, even if the team was 1-11!


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phgreek

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Some probably don't have confidence in the administration of ND to hire a competent coach as they've not had a great track record the last 20 years. Some probably think the problem is more systemic than just Kelly and that only a Saben or Meyer could fix it. Some probably hope we're just a good DC away from winning 10 games every year.

...I think most teams who fail to win 10 games are a coordinator away. I don't think anyone has as much a split performance as ND though. Maybe Baylor and Syracuse. Any of these teams actually field a defense and they'd truck damn near everyone.

In the end, I stand with Kelly because he is better than anyone ND is going to get to come to South Bend next year...yes even The Hatter. Sure, I think Urban is a better overall motivator, coach, and program director...but he isn't coming to South Bend. So I don't mind acknowledging Kelly's warts, but he can win...a lot... with a competent DC. If the fans and boosters let the man recover from the BVG debacle, he'll get it done. I don't know that he'll stay on his own accord beyond 10 years anyway. I think in the next two years he'll have a couple playoff appearances, and maybe a natty. JMHO though.
 

NDgradstudent

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Are you old enough to remember 3-9? I am. I also remember 7-6 under Davie, and when that felt like a victory because deep down we all secretly knew the offense blew chunks even though we liked to pretend otherwise. And I'm able to look at this team that can score 40 at will on anyone even though things get rough sometimes on defense and know that it's not all so bad, that we could probably be undefeated right now with a better DC, and hope that maybe we now have that better DC and that we win most if not all of the rest of our games against good but flawed opponents, and return 19 talented starters next year, and know that maybe firing Kelly in the vain hope that Notre Dame will sell its soul to land an Urban Meyer (b/c our soul, not more cash, is what it will require) is a fools game that most likely fails anyway, ending in 15 more years wandering the darkness of "irrelevancy." And TBH I don't think that's "battered spouse syndrome" so much as a realistic view of where we sit in this day and age.

I wasn't an ND fan until I came here for grad school, so while I was alive during 3-9, I was not following ND. I have a number of friends who were students during that time, though, and who agree with me.

As for selling our soul, it of course depends on what the precise issue is. In the actual case of Meyer himself, we apparently offered him 1 million a year in 04, while Florida was offering him 2 million. We obviously should have offered him 3 million. Offering coaches more money than everyone else is not selling our soul.

I do not support 'lowering' standards any more than they have been, even if that would help the program win more (although as I have emphasized I do not believe that standards are the main problem). That said, it is impossible to say whether or not Meyer's (or someone similar's) demands on the program would be reasonable without knowing exactly what they were/would be and also knowing what the situation is now. If OSU was still humming along with Tressel, and Meyer's departure from Florida had happened a couple years later, I think he would have come here if the price was right.
 

House16

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It's simple: few of the BK supporters (currently 97 of them in the survey) are true BK believers. It's just that they are so traumatized by years of DWW that they fear going back to 3-9. It's battered spouse syndrome on a massive scale.

I think most of the BK supporters (if I can project myself on others here) realize that he definitely has flaws. However, you have to look at the future, and the future if we fire BK this year is exceedingly bleak. Now, if we fire BK after next year, assuming we again underachieve, or even the year after, there's a much much better chance that we are able to reel in a good HC.

I don't necessarily disagree with people who say "BK has flaws and isn't going to be the one to lead us to the promised land." If he hires a great DC, I definitely think we could win a NY6 game, but that's not really the point here.

The point is that Kelly isn't tanking the program. We're recruiting well right now, we're putting lots of people in the league, and we're consistently competitive. It makes much more sense to be patient and maintain this consistency until there's a better option than to blow it up and most likely hire someone worse because we're impatient.

If we blow things up right now, it will most likely set the program back 5 years because we'll get a bad coach. If we give Kelly a couple more years, then we have a much better chance of getting a good coach.
 

arahop

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You are not a Notre Dame fan. You are a troll!

A true fan would be happy that the team they loved won. A true fan would root for their team, even if the team was 1-11!


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You hit the bottom of that bottle yet buddy? BK is 11 -24 against top 25. Zero big bowl wins. And his stubbornness is sinking the program. Loyalty to BVG Longo. Gilmore just a few examples. Call me whatever you want. Revisit this in 1-2 years.
 

phgreek

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I think most of the BK supporters (if I can project myself on others here) realize that he definitely has flaws. However, you have to look at the future, and the future if we fire BK this year is exceedingly bleak. Now, if we fire BK after next year, assuming we again underachieve, or even the year after, there's a much much better chance that we are able to reel in a good HC.

I don't necessarily disagree with people who say "BK has flaws and isn't going to be the one to lead us to the promised land." If he hires a great DC, I definitely think we could win a NY6 game, but that's not really the point here.

The point is that Kelly isn't tanking the program. We're recruiting well right now, we're putting lots of people in the league, and we're consistently competitive. It makes much more sense to be patient and maintain this consistency until there's a better option than to blow it up and most likely hire someone worse because we're impatient.

If we blow things up right now, it will most likely set the program back 5 years because we'll get a bad coach. If we give Kelly a couple more years, then we have a much better chance of getting a good coach.

Folds hands, Bows Head....AMEN.
 

Sherm Sticky

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You hit the bottom of that bottle yet buddy? BK is 11 -24 against top 25. Zero big bowl wins. And his stubbornness is sinking the program. Loyalty to BVG Longo. Gilmore just a few examples. Call me whatever you want. Revisit this in 1-2 years.



Not drinking at all.

I became a fan in 93. Saw the end of the Holtz era, Davies, Ty and Weis eras. I do not want to ever go back. Brian Kelly is the best Notre Dame coach I have ever seen. I'm to afraid to see Notre Dame without him.


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kmoose

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I keep hearing. The whole "kelly sbould blow up the staff argument" The leader of the program selected BVG., Longo,Gilmore,Lyght. Don't get it twisted BK is the problem . Sick of hearing the excuses for him. BK style was effective in 2008. Football progressed and he didn't . Hes an 8-9 wins a year coach. In year 7 he will be 7-5 or worse. How can anyone be a supporter of him. Id love to hear more about it! ??

In Bobby Bowden's 6th season at Florida State, he went 6-5.

In Bob Stoops' 7th season at Oklahoma, he went 8-4.

In Woody Hayes' 6th season at Ohio State, he went 6-3.

In Lou Holtz's 9th season, he went 6-5-1.

I'm not advocating that he blow up the staff, though. So I'm not sure if I am included in the group that you appear to addressing.
 
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