Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[ickythump1225]

I know we have limitations that will prevent us from recruiting like Bama but we are NOT recruiting to our full potential either. Charlie freaking Weis got 7 5* players to commit in his tenure. If Clemson has grabbed 12 over a 5 year span I think we can get at least half of that. We've been slouching.

 

[stlnd01]

I know we have limitations that will prevent us from recruiting like Bama but we are NOT recruiting to our full potential either. Charlie freaking Weis got 7 5* players to commit in his tenure. If Clemson has grabbed 12 over a 5 year span I think we can get at least half of that. We've been slouching.

You recall 2010 through 2014, when we recruited a bunch of five-stars, very few of whom actually had productive careers for Notre Dame. Yes?

 

[NDRock]

You recall 2010 through 2014, when we recruited a bunch of five-stars, very few of whom actually had productive careers for Notre Dame. Yes?

You mean guys like Jaylon Smith, Q Nelson, and Stephon Tuitt? That's 3/7 we recruited. That's the best OL, LB, and arguably DL we have had. I'll take that every time. I don't understand the "some of the 5*s flame ou, so let's stop recruiting them" mindset. Guess what, a lot of the 3* and 4* players don't make it either.

 

[ickythump1225]

You recall 2010 through 2014, when we recruited a bunch of five-stars, very few of whom actually had productive careers for Notre Dame. Yes?

Okay, and since then? Also, perhaps it's an indictment against the coaching staff that they were unable to get any production out of a single 5* recruit (other than Jaylon).

No matter which way you slice it, BK completely owns what happens here at ND 10 years in. That is my stance. No matter the excuse, BK owns it. We can't recruit any 5* players, or actually we can we just can't develop them. All of it lays at the feet of BK. All of it. He's the "CEO" so it's his mess.

 

[ickythump1225]

Something I think about often (assuming BK doesn't win a title here) is BK the greatest ND coach to never win a title?

 

[NDRock]

Something I think about often (assuming BK doesn't win a title here) is BK the greatest ND coach to never win a title?

Yes. Not sure it's even close. Would have to look way back though.

 

[stlnd01]

You mean guys like Jaylon Smith, Q Nelson, and Stephon Tuitt? That's 3/7 we recruited. That's the best OL, LB, and arguably DL we have had. I'll take that every time. I don't understand the "some of the 5*s flame ou, so let's stop recruiting them" mindset. Guess what, a lot of the 3* and 4* players don't make it either.

It's not a matter of "stop recruiting them." Of course you recruit them. If they fit. But I'd rather have a guy who's going to play for 3-5 years than a big recruiting win who can't stay eligible or transfers out (like Lynch, Kiel, Ishaq, Greg Bryant, Vanderdoes, Tee Shepard, etc.)

 

[ND88]

eh, nevermind.

 

[stlnd01]

Okay, and since then? Also, perhaps it's an indictment against the coaching staff that they were unable to get any production out of a single 5* recruit (other than Jaylon).

No matter which way you slice it, BK completely owns what happens here at ND 10 years in. That is my stance. No matter the excuse, BK owns it. We can't recruit any 5* players, or actually we can we just can't develop them. All of it lays at the feet of BK. All of it. He's the "CEO" so it's his mess.

I think BK made a conscious decision, after numerous "reach" recruits didn't pan out in his first few years, to stop going after kids who were iffy academic and/or cultural fits, and focus instead on four-stars who wanted to be at Notre Dame for the right reasons and were truly committed and equipped to succeed at ND over the long haul.

You've really seen that the last few years, when we've locked down classes early and had very little recruiting drama. But we've also had very few five-stars - aside from offensive linemen - just the occasional Jaylon or Tillery or Kyle Hamilton who are both super-talented AND serious about all Notre Dame can offer.

And that's the downside. I'm not certain it's the right approach, because it does appear to put a ceiling on our talent that is below the truly "elite" teams. But it's an approach, one that has led us to likely three straight 10-win seasons, and I respect Kelly's willingness to evolve to something that works at Notre Dame right now.

 

[NDRock]

I think BK made a conscious decision, after numerous "reach" recruits didn't pan out in his first few years, to stop going after kids who were iffy academic and/or cultural fits, and focus instead on four-stars who wanted to be at Notre Dame for the right reasons and were truly committed and equipped to succeed at ND over the long haul.

You've really seen that the last few years, when we've locked down classes early and had very little recruiting drama. But we've also had very few five-stars - aside from offensive linemen - just the occasional Jaylon or Tillery or Kyle Hamilton who are both super-talented AND serious about all Notre Dame can offer.

And that's the downside. I'm not certain it's the right approach, because it does appear to put a ceiling on our talent that is below the truly "elite" teams. But it's an approach, one that has led us to likely three straight 10-win seasons, and I respect Kelly's willingness to evolve to something that works at Notre Dame right now.

Yeah, the hope is now we can make the next step by convincing some elite guys to come and put us over the hump. Judging by the '20 and '21 commits, it may work out. Hope so.

 

[dad4aa]

Okay, and since then? Also, perhaps it's an indictment against the coaching staff that they were unable to get any production out of a single 5* recruit (other than Jaylon).

No matter which way you slice it, BK completely owns what happens here at ND 10 years in. That is my stance. No matter the excuse, BK owns it. We can't recruit any 5* players, or actually we can we just can't develop them. All of it lays at the feet of BK. All of it. He's the "CEO" so it's his mess.

Another great hottake. You are so right, we didn't get shit out of Tuitt and Nelson.

 

[ickythump1225]

Another great hottake. You are so right, we didn't get shit out of Tuitt and Nelson.

I forgot about them, I was responding to a poster who said we got nothing out of any 5*s we've recruited under Kelly. Perhaps read the context of the posts you're responding to?

 

[Circa]

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[dad4aa]

I forgot about them, I was responding to a poster who said we got nothing out of any 5*s we've recruited under Kelly. Perhaps read the context of the posts you're responding to?

I read the context...just went back and reread and it still stands as a bullshit post. You did the same thing earlier when you were trying to list all the marquee games we play and lose yet you never list the ones we play and win. Someone else called you out on that one too. NDRock's first paragraph in post 10276

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I forgot about them, I was responding to a poster who said we got nothing out of any 5*s we've recruited under Kelly. Perhaps read the context of the posts you're responding to?

You're actually right, according to 247 composite neither of those guys were 5* anyways.

 

[ickythump1225]

I read the context...just went back and reread and it still stands as a bullshit post. You did the same thing earlier when you were trying to list all the marquee games we play and lose yet you never list the ones we play and win. Someone else called you out on that one too. NDRock's first paragraph in post 10276

Again, I was responding to someone who said we got NOTHING out of any of the 5*s, to include Smith, Tuitt, and Nelson. I was being sarcastic in response to that by contrasting how on the one hand BK sunshine pumpers state we can't recruit 5*s, but then in the next breath will say actually we can they just don't perform here. I threw Jaylon in there as an after thought really because the purpose of my post was mostly sarcasm, not a detailed accounting of our recruiting records and the performances afterwards.

Regular season wins are subjective, I don't consider USC a marquee win whereas I consider UGA a marquee loss. Why? Because over the past 12 years UGA has been consistently the better program with far better players and higher recruiting rankings. I don't consider beating a 9 win afterthought LSU team in a non-NY6 bowl a marquee win either. Sorry I don't cheer for Purdue and have higher hopes than that.

If you'll note I stated Miami was an iffy addition and wouldn't argue if someone said that wasn't a marquee game. Realizing the subjectivity and hairsplitting nature of the conversation that was being engaged in I just reverted to something I hold as more objective: performance in BCS/NY6 bowls because those are much harder to argue against being marquee games. Our record in those games speaks for itself.

Lastly, I'm not sure why you and other BK fanboys get so buttmad when his greatness is questioned. 116-45 means you deserve to be questioned. I'm sorry boatracing Duke, Navy, and BC doesn't absolve BK of all of his shortcomings.

 

[ickythump1225]

If you're happy winning the Citrus Bowl every few years against SEC after thoughts and getting crushed in NY6 bowls every so often then I guess I can see why you would support BK passionately.

 

[dad4aa]

Again, I was responding to someone who said we got NOTHING out of any of the 5*s, to include Smith, Tuitt, and Nelson. I was being sarcastic in response to that by contrasting how on the one hand BK sunshine pumpers state we can't recruit 5*s, but then in the next breath will say actually we can they just don't perform here. I threw Jaylon in there as an after thought really because the purpose of my post was mostly sarcasm, not a detailed accounting of our recruiting records and the performances afterwards.

Regular season wins are subjective, I don't consider USC a marquee win whereas I consider UGA a marquee loss. Why? Because over the past 12 years UGA has been consistently the better program with far better players and higher recruiting rankings. I don't consider beating a 9 win afterthought LSU team in a non-NY6 bowl a marquee win either. Sorry I don't cheer for Purdue and have higher hopes than that.

If you'll note I stated Miami was an iffy addition and wouldn't argue if someone said that wasn't a marquee game. Realizing the subjectivity and hairsplitting nature of the conversation that was being engaged in I just reverted to something I hold as more objective: performance in BCS/NY6 bowls because those are much harder to argue against being marquee games. Our record in those games speaks for itself.

Lastly, I'm not sure why you and other BK fanboys get so buttmad when his greatness is questioned. 116-45 means you deserve to be questioned. I'm sorry boatracing Duke, Navy, and BC doesn't absolve BK of all of his shortcomings.

Not a BK fanboy. I actually wanted him fired after he focused more on his interview with the Eagles than he did getting us ready for the 2012 NC. Am I glad now he wasn't fired...hell yes. Do I think he can win a NC...not sure but I hope so...especially with the recruits coming down soon. I just get tired of people who constantly post, in every thread they go to, "BK sucks, BK can never win the NC, BK can't recruit, etc". It gets old. We get it, you don't like him but do you have to constantly post about it? The shit gets old and tiring.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

Again, I was responding to someone who said we got NOTHING out of any of the 5*s, to include Smith, Tuitt, and Nelson. I was being sarcastic in response to that by contrasting how on the one hand BK sunshine pumpers state we can't recruit 5*s, but then in the next breath will say actually we can they just don't perform here. I threw Jaylon in there as an after thought really because the purpose of my post was mostly sarcasm, not a detailed accounting of our recruiting records and the performances afterwards.

Regular season wins are subjective, I don't consider USC a marquee win whereas I consider UGA a marquee loss. Why? Because over the past 12 years UGA has been consistently the better program with far better players and higher recruiting rankings. I don't consider beating a 9 win afterthought LSU team in a non-NY6 bowl a marquee win either. Sorry I don't cheer for Purdue and have higher hopes than that.

If you'll note I stated Miami was an iffy addition and wouldn't argue if someone said that wasn't a marquee game. Realizing the subjectivity and hairsplitting nature of the conversation that was being engaged in I just reverted to something I hold as more objective: performance in BCS/NY6 bowls because those are much harder to argue against being marquee games. Our record in those games speaks for itself.

Lastly, I'm not sure why you and other BK fanboys get so buttmad when his greatness is questioned. 116-45 means you deserve to be questioned. I'm sorry boatracing Duke, Navy, and BC doesn't absolve BK of all of his shortcomings.

How dare you question the greatness of Coach Brian Kelly!
Don't you know that we were losers before he got here!? So what if he sits on the sidelines, arms crossed, whether we're winning by 50 against Duke or down 50 to Michigan. Literally no change in expression. How can you question those pregame and halftime speeches? I know they sound like a business conference full of 78 year old men, but "there's a standard here, and we're gonna play to that standard at Notre Dame".

 

[ickythump1225]

Not a BK fanboy. I actually wanted him fired after he focused more on his interview with the Eagles than he did getting us ready for the 2012 NC. Am I glad now he wasn't fired...hell yes. Do I think he can win a NC...not sure but I hope so...especially with the recruits coming down soon. I just get tired of people who constantly post, in every thread they go to, "BK sucks, BK can never win the NC, BK can't recruit, etc". It gets old. We get it, you don't like him but do you have to constantly post about it? The shit gets old and tiring.

This is literally the "Brian Kelly Revisited" thread.

 

[dad4aa]

If you're happy winning the Citrus Bowl every few years against SEC after thoughts and getting crushed in NY6 bowls every so often then I guess I can see why you would support BK passionately.

Very insightful post. I see you did a lot of research (as usual) to come to the conclusions of what I hope for ND's football future. Yes I never want to win a NC. Why is it BK haters like you always go to this BS?

 

[dad4aa]

This is literally the "Brian Kelly Revisited" thread.

I'm not going to waste my time going through all the other threads copying your posts to show this is a common theme no matter what the thread.

 

[ickythump1225]

Also do you similarly get mad online over the BK fanboys like Circa and OMM who use every positive play and victory over middling programs to be like "hurr hurr BK da best where all da haters at??"

 

[ickythump1225]

I'm not going to waste my time going through all the other threads copying your posts to show this is a common theme no matter what the thread.

Also do you similarly get mad online over the BK fanboys like Circa and OMM who use every positive play and victory over middling programs to be like "hurr hurr BK da best where all da haters at??"

.

 

[dad4aa]

Also do you similarly get mad online over the BK fanboys like Circa and OMM who use every positive play and victory over middling programs to be like "hurr hurr BK da best where all da haters at??"

That's a good point and no I don't. Probably bc I am a Notre Dame fan so seeing some over-the-top rose-colored glasses posts aren't annoying and negative. I don't mind those posts because they are just supporting the program. We are in the best position...by far...since Holtz and the years in between were very rough for all of us. We are finally relevant again and while we are not back in the elite we are a hell of a lot closer than we were. Three years in a row undefeated at home, if we beat Stanford and a good bowl win we are 33-6 that past three years. Why anyone wants to harp on the negatives is beyond me.

 

[Circa]

What amazes some is fodder for the rest. You get the common cold yearly and use the same soap. You hate your job and stay for retirement.
You get mad at your favorite football team and blame the guy that has made your easiest decision.
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[ickythump1225]

That's a good point and no I don't. Probably bc I am a Notre Dame fan so seeing some over-the-top rose-colored glasses posts aren't annoying and negative. I don't mind those posts because they are just supporting the program. We are in the best position...by far...since Holtz and the years in between were very rough for all of us. We are finally relevant again and while we are not back in the elite we are a hell of a lot closer than we were. Three years in a row undefeated at home, if we beat Stanford and a good bowl win we are 33-6 that past three years. Why anyone wants to harp on the negatives is beyond me.

I would say that I "harp on the negatives" because I love ND and see want so much more for the team. "Good is the enemy of great" is not just a cliche corporate slogan but can be very accurate. I actually understand the mindset of "the previous three coaches were dumpster fires and we were circling the drain, lets hold on tight to what we got" but at year 10 I'm thoroughly convinced BK is not the guy to lead us into the Promised Land.

I was actually convinced of this after the NW loss in 2014 (to this date still the worst loss of the BK era IMO) and while there have been stretches where I wanted to believe otherwise (the win streak in 2015 between Clemson and Stanford; the win streak in 2017 between UGA and Miami<<this was actually the period of greatest belief for me) really I've remained pretty consistently convinced that BK is a good coach, but kind of a poor man's Mark Richt.

I pick on these things because to me ND stands for greatness. For a mystique and aura that not every program (not even every blue blood) has. I think of ND as the greatest college football program of all time (I can't give it to Alabama as so many of their earlier titles are built on sand and BS). If I were a Gophers fan I would be quite pleased, by my expectations would be much lower. I won't be satisfied until ND wins it all. Despite my pessimistic demeanor I'm actually an eternal optimist who believes ND can win a title, more than one actually, that is why I get so frustrated with BK. If I truly, deeply, believed that ND couldn't win a title I'd be less passionate.

 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

I would say that I "harp on the negatives" because I love ND and see want so much more for the team. "Good is the enemy of great" is not just a cliche corporate slogan but can be very accurate. I actually understand the mindset of "the previous three coaches were dumpster fires and we were circling the drain, lets hold on tight to what we got" but at year 10 I'm thoroughly convinced BK is not the guy to lead us into the Promised Land.

I was actually convinced of this after the NW loss in 2014 (to this date still the worst loss of the BK era IMO) and while there have been stretches where I wanted to believe otherwise (the win streak in 2015 between Clemson and Stanford; the win streak in 2017 between UGA and Miami<<this was actually the period of greatest belief for me) really I've remained pretty consistently convinced that BK is a good coach, but kind of a poor man's Mark Richt.

I pick on these things because to me ND stands for greatness. For a mystique and aura that not every program (not even every blue blood) has. I think of ND as the greatest college football program of all time (I can't give it to Alabama as so many of their earlier titles are built on sand and BS). If I were a Gophers fan I would be quite pleased, by my expectations would be much lower. I won't be satisfied until ND wins it all. Despite my pessimistic demeanor I'm actually an eternal optimist who believes ND can win a title, more than one actually, that is why I get so frustrated with BK. If I truly, deeply, believed that ND couldn't win a title I'd be less passionate.

Well freakin' said man. That sums up my whole ND existence at present time.

 

[dad4aa]

I would say that I "harp on the negatives" because I love ND and see want so much more for the team. "Good is the enemy of great" is not just a cliche corporate slogan but can be very accurate. I actually understand the mindset of "the previous three coaches were dumpster fires and we were circling the drain, lets hold on tight to what we got" but at year 10 I'm thoroughly convinced BK is not the guy to lead us into the Promised Land.

I was actually convinced of this after the NW loss in 2014 (to this date still the worst loss of the BK era IMO) and while there have been stretches where I wanted to believe otherwise (the win streak in 2015 between Clemson and Stanford; the win streak in 2017 between UGA and Miami<<this was actually the period of greatest belief for me) really I've remained pretty consistently convinced that BK is a good coach, but kind of a poor man's Mark Richt.

I pick on these things because to me ND stands for greatness. For a mystique and aura that not every program (not even every blue blood) has. I think of ND as the greatest college football program of all time (I can't give it to Alabama as so many of their earlier titles are built on sand and BS). If I were a Gophers fan I would be quite pleased, by my expectations would be much lower. I won't be satisfied until ND wins it all. Despite my pessimistic demeanor I'm actually an eternal optimist who believes ND can win a title, more than one actually, that is why I get so frustrated with BK. If I truly, deeply, believed that ND couldn't win a title I'd be less passionate.

I can appreciate that...and agree with quite a bit. I think the biggest difference is I don't believe BK can't win the NC. Unfortunately there are still no time machines to test my theories, but I believe we got robbed (and then injuries ruined) the Clemson matchup. Can't remember all the details but there was a fumbled kickoff that we recovered and the refs blew the call. Then there was a catch for a first down to sustain a drive that Alize had and the refs said he dropped the ball (even though he took a few steps after the catch which should have established possession and the ground could not cause a fumnle so it should have been a catch). Both of those would have potentially let us have a 7-14 point lead early in the game and totally changed the momentum and Book's confidence. Had we not lost 3 key players in the 2nd quarter, we would not have been blown out (maybe still lose).

Point is, I have no idea why BS like the scUM game this year happens and it is infuriating. I do think he can bring a Natty. If BK does not win the NC in the next 3 years with the recruits he has coming in then I will probably be at the point you are that it will never happen.

 

[Circa]

Yes, we are all dealing with a "I'm so important my team should win regularly, type of life."
Get a grip