Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[irishff1014]

FWIW, if we are basing our decisions off of what Jeter and Mario Hamlin tweet, then we should look at the countless kids that have said good things of BK and their dealings with him.

Heck, we just got a commitment from Elijah Hicks, who BK personally recruited to some degree, and had a big impact on landing. The PA boys, outside of Jeter, have all had really good things to say about BK. The list goes on.

I don't want to come across as a BK apologist but this board is taking things and running with them, as if all recruits hate BK. That just isn't true.

Not to mention who they are coming from. It was said that Hamlin's family never wanted Damar to leave home but ND was doing a good job of convincing him to do so. They wanted the staff to keep a spot open for him as long as he wanted, and the staff didn't want to do so, knowing how important it was to land another CB recruit. Got Pride instead. So now, a possibly, butt hurt dad is tweeting about BK, color me not surprised, nor does that change my opinion about BK. There might be other things that do, but that certainly isn't one of them.

On to Jeter, this is a kid who came out in support of BK and staff, just a few weeks ago. Then he decommitts because he said he got wrapped up in the moment committed too fast, and now needed to take his time. Doesn't want to play for a mediocre team. He then turns around and commits to UM on his first visit. So much for taking his time. After doing so, blasts BK for not "being cool" and easy accessible. Really, we're going to use these two as examples of how players and recruits, view BK. Seems like a stretch to me.

Great post Lucci. Said it better than i ever could have thanks.

 

[NDRock]

FWIW, if we are basing our decisions off of what Jeter and Mario Hamlin tweet, then we should look at the countless kids that have said good things of BK and their dealings with him.

Heck, we just got a commitment from Elijah Hicks, who BK personally recruited to some degree, and had a big impact on landing. The PA boys, outside of Jeter, have all had really good things to say about BK. The list goes on.

I don't want to come across as a BK apologist but this board is taking things and running with them, as if all recruits hate BK. That just isn't true.

Not to mention who they are coming from. It was said that Hamlin's family never wanted Damar to leave home but ND was doing a good job of convincing him to do so. They wanted the staff to keep a spot open for him as long as he wanted, and the staff didn't want to do so, knowing how important it was to land another CB recruit. Got Pride instead. So now, a possibly, butt hurt dad is tweeting about BK, color me not surprised, nor does that change my opinion about BK. There might be other things that do, but that certainly isn't one of them.

On to Jeter, this is a kid who came out in support of BK and staff, just a few weeks ago. Then he decommitts because he said he got wrapped up in the moment committed too fast, and now needed to take his time. Doesn't want to play for a mediocre team. He then turns around and commits to UM on his first visit. So much for taking his time. After doing so, blasts BK for not "being cool" and easy accessible. Really, we're going to use these two as examples of how players and recruits, view BK. Seems like a stretch to me.

I think that's fair. I'm also not overly surprised by Jeter and Hamlin's comments as I've never thought of Kelly as a dynamic recruiter. I remember reading Cinci fans not being impressed by the recruiting during Kelly's tenure. I've heard Mike Frank allude to similar things as well. Guys like Meyer and Harbaugh I would consider dynamic recruiters. Doesn't mean you can's succeed with Kelly's style but when the losses start piling up these things become more fodder.

 

[Luckylucci]

What we don't have that other schools have are 5th year seniors. Stanford has 15, we have a couple.

So, I think this would be a valid reason for being upset with roster management over the years. There are guys that should've or currently should be saving 1 year of eligibility. I think we need to get more of a 5th year senior presence on our teams. Imagine if we had guys like Romeo this year or Kona Schwenke in 2014. Those are both guys that I think change W's/L's due to where the need arose, on those specific teams. Why are we playing Julian Okwara, because he's a no brainer 4 year player? I personally don't think so.

 

[gkIrish]

Much to your chagrin the class isn't falling apart. We have someone like Jeter every year. I know you despise Kelly but fortunately he will return next year.

Did I say it was falling apart?

Also you don't know anything if you think I would be happy to see class fall apart.

 

[phork]

I think kind of a case study here is Hoke vs Harbaugh. Harbaugh's current team as listed in the starting line up on Saturday was all 5th year and Seniors with the exception of Speight and Peppers. Harbaugh has turned Hokes piss poor coaching and subpar athletes to National Title contenders in less than 2 years.

 

[dwshade]

So, I think this would be a valid reason for being upset with roster management over the years. There are guys that should've or currently should be saving 1 year of eligibility. I think we need to get more of a 5th year senior presence on our teams. Imagine if we had guys like Romeo this year or Kona Schwenke in 2014. Those are both guys that I think change W's/L's due to where the need arose, on those specific teams. Why are we playing Julian Okwara, because he's a no brainer 4 year player? I personally don't think so.

This was discussed on the II podcast and it seems the concern is with the school more so than the coaches. Players take full load during season and are here during the summer taking classes. As a result they get degree in less than four years so many just move on rather than staying and going to graduate school. Other schools don't require players to have graduated as a prerequisite for getting a 5th year. And they don't have to take a full load during the season.

 

[IrishLax]

I think kind of a case study here is Hoke vs Harbaugh. Harbaugh's current team as listed in the starting line up on Saturday was all 5th year and Seniors with the exception of Speight and Peppers. Harbaugh has turned Hokes piss poor coaching and subpar athletes to National Title contenders in less than 2 years.

Yup, because Harbaugh is a boss like that. It's also why the discussion of Kelly "not playing enough young guys" seemed so silly to me on here... he has played people early his entire tenure. And often, it comes back to bite us by not saving their RS year. Guys like Kona Schwenke and Romeo Okwara come to mind.

It's a weird balancing act and there is no "right" way to do it... in general, I really like red shirting trench players no matter what and the only position where I don't care about preserving eligibility is RB.

 

[gkIrish]

Yup, because Harbaugh is a boss like that. It's also why the discussion of Kelly "not playing enough young guys" seemed so silly to me on here... he has played people early his entire tenure. And often, it comes back to bite us by not saving their RS year. Guys like Kona Schwenke and Romeo Okwara come to mind.

It's a weird balancing act and there is no "right" way to do it... in general, I really like red shirting trench players no matter what and the only position where I don't care about preserving eligibility is RB.

I think it depends what we are talking about when we refer to playing time. Burning a redshirt for a special teams play or whatever nonsense happened with Okwara is clearly a big mistake. But giving young guys real snaps for large parts of a game, especially when the upperclassman are not getting the job done AND when we are 2-5 is definitely worth it.

 

[bluengold4732]

5th years are a tricky equation to predict when it comes to roster management especially with the new grad transfer rule. Even if you have contributing players like Zaire, Hunter, Folston, Smythe, or Bivin there's no guarantee they'll be there all five years. Then there's guys like Schwenke, Shumate, and Okwara, who you wish had another year of eligibility that you miss out on. I think the situation ND is in now is the best case scenario. As it stands that sit at 65( not including 5th yrs)schollies for next year with 18? commits and 9 fifth year options. It gives them flexibility with who gets asked back and wiggle room in case of defections, medicals, and transfers. You want between 5-8 5th year guys who are all contributors ideally not just guys holding a roster spot. I really think the staff should bring back all fifth years during the spring and pick from the group prior to fall camp when you have a clearer picture of the offseason attrition. It would prevent the problem of being under scholarships for the most part and you don't have to grey-shirt or oversign

 

[Luckylucci]

This was discussed on the II podcast and it seems the concern is with the school more so than the coaches. Players take full load during season and are here during the summer taking classes. As a result they get degree in less than four years so many just move on rather than staying and going to graduate school. Other schools don't require players to have graduated as a prerequisite for getting a 5th year. And they don't have to take a full load during the season.

I would agree, that it plays a role, but guys like Kona and Romeo were coming back, if they had a 5th year. Its the borderline NFL guys that we need to have as 5th year players. Guys that are active in the 2 deep and are getting playing time, so they want to stay, versus go to another school to finish up eligibility and play. But they are good enough to positively impact the team.

Without knowing the entire situation, conversations behind close doors, etc. Julian Okwara is a no brainer RS. He has Hayes to compete with at the exact same spot in the same class. It makes perfect sense to split up that eligibility. Especially considering, we won't be bringing in a player at said position this cycle. He's also not a player that I see being a 4 year and gone player.

 

[IrishLax]

I think it depends what we are talking about when we refer to playing time. Burning a redshirt for a special teams play or whatever nonsense happened with Okwara is clearly a big mistake. But giving young guys real snaps for large parts of a game, especially when the upperclassman are not getting the job done AND when we are 2-5 is definitely worth it.

Out of the guys that have played so far this year, are there any that you wish HADN'T played?

To me, I wish Kareem wasn't getting the very limited snaps he's getting. I also wish Julian Okwara... who weighs about as much as a strong safety... wasn't playing. Same with Ogundeji.

I'm OK with pretty much everyone else, unless I'm forgetting someone. But I don't see what good it did burning the red shirts of these guys.

 

[bluengold4732]

I'm okay with Kareem he needs more reps and will probably be in the two deep behind Bonner next year. But like Lucky, Julian should of RS for those exact reasons...he weighs 228 and he puts a year between him and Daelin. I would say the same with Spencer Perry. He should be a RS along with Morgan to put a year between them and Studstill and Elliot. Maybe Jamir Jones too. We have seen guys play their freshman year and RS the following year like C.Holmes, Justin Brent and J.Hayes though. Might be a similar situation with some freshman this year especially in the secondary when Crawford and Watkins come back and IF Butler is reinstated.

 

[Luckylucci]

Not GK but.....

Kareem, I slightly understand, as he'll probably be asked to play quite a bit next year.

Okwara is completely pointless.

I didn't even know that Ade O was playing. So completely pointless as well.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm okay with Kareem he needs more reps and will probably be in the two deep behind Bonner next year. But like Lucky, Julian should of RS for those exact reasons...he weighs 228 and he puts a year between him and Daelin. I would say the same with Spencer Perry. He should be a RS along with Morgan to put a year between them and Studstill and Elliot. Maybe Jamir Jones too

Agree, as well. I don't know how the numbers work out for ST's but I have to believe we have the numbers, with our upperclassmen, that we can field competitive ST's units, without some of these guys.

 

[gkIrish]

Out of the guys that have played so far this year, are there any that you wish HADN'T played?

To me, I wish Kareem wasn't getting the very limited snaps he's getting. I also wish Julian Okwara... who weighs about as much as a strong safety... wasn't playing. Same with Ogundeji.

I'm OK with pretty much everyone else, unless I'm forgetting someone. But I don't see what good it did burning the red shirts of these guys.

Okwara should have redshirted as he wasn't physically ready like you mentioned. Ogundeji should also sit because he isn't getting meaningful snaps. Kareem can play, don't have a problem with it. He is talented and the body is pretty much there. Needs experience. Wish he was getting more snaps.

 

[dwshade]

Not GK but.....

Kareem, I slightly understand, as he'll probably be asked to play quite a bit next year.

Okwara is completely pointless.

I didn't even know that Ade O was playing. So completely pointless as well.

Ade O hasn't played. Kareem played against Nevada and Duke.

 

[bluengold4732]

D.J. Morgan, Jonathan Jones, and Ade Ogundeji are the only ones on defense who haven't seen any action. Jamir Jones and Perry are on sp.teams coverage units but I think you could of easily plugged Ashton White and Barajas in for them on kickoffs but it's a moot point this late in the season unfortunately. I haven't seen Perry on sp. teams in recent weeks but I do remember Kelly saying he was on the active roster a few weeks back for special teams. Same goes with Kareem on the defense...seen him play early on but nothing in recent weeks.

 

[PLACforever]

I'd like to congratulate Coach Kelly on coming through this past weekend without a loss. Hip hip hooray!

 

[military_irish]

I'd like to congratulate Coach Kelly on coming through this past weekend without a loss. Hip hip hooray!

ND did lose a commit.

 

[Luckylucci]

ND did lose a commit.

We also gained one, right after.

 

[WestCoast]

So much recruiting fail in one place:
How we got here: Roster Attrition – Inside the Irish

 

[NDinBoston]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">After surrendering 854 yards in win, Oklahoma's Bob Stoops edgy about defensive coordinator/brother <a href="https://t.co/cOeBlpDtrg">https://t.co/cOeBlpDtrg</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/CliffBruntAP">@cliffbruntAP</a></p>— AP Top 25 (@AP_Top25) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP_Top25/status/790721308657147904">October 25, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

From the article:
NORMAN, Okla. (AP) — Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops was edgy Monday as he fielded questions about his brother, defensive coordinator Mike Stoops.

Oklahoma defeated Texas Tech 66-59 Saturday to remain unbeaten in Big 12 play, but the Sooners surrendered a school-record 854 yards. On a day that the offense put up historic numbers, the defense allowed Texas Tech quarterback Patrick Mahomes to post an FBS record 819 yards of total offense and make a game of it in the final minutes.

Bob Stoops said working through the kinks isn't more or less difficult because he's dealing with family.

"It's business," he said. "You go over it and you study it. But again, it's all of us, too. It isn't just my brother and I. It's also coach Cooks, coach Thibodeaux, coach Kish, everybody in there. Didn't complete a sack, ball caught between the two linebackers, ball caught on a secondary guy. It's all of us together."

When it was implied that Mike Stoops is protected because of family ties, Bob Stoops disagreed and said Mike Stoops' track record has earned him some leeway.

"That's not true," he said. "It's the same coordinator that also we led the league in every defensive category a year ago, and made it to the final four. We're not running a new defense. He didn't bring in something different. It's the same defense. If it's worked before, it'll work again, and I've got confidence in it. And I'm also part of what we're doing."

The 16th-ranked Sooners can get their defense back on track when they host struggling Kansas on Saturday.

Perhaps Mike Stoops wouldn't be under such pressure if the previous results from conference play weren't nearly as bad. The Sooners are allowing 40.5 points per game in league play, eighth in a 10-team league. Oklahoma is dead last in the league in pass defense, surrendering a staggering 413.2 yards per game, and are second-to-last in total defense, giving up 532 yards per game.

Then, there was Saturday's display. The Sooners allowed Tech to convert on 20 of 25 third downs.

"It's something that's very discouraging when it isn't what it needs to be and you're not executing the way you need be to or playing as hard or as physical as you need to be," Bob Stoops said.

Bob Stoops said Mahomes deserves some credit for avoiding Oklahoma's pressure and exploiting the Sooners' secondary. Mahomes passed for 734 yards, obliterating the previous school record for opponent yards passing in a game of 485 set by Robert Griffin III in 2011.

"We tried four-man rush, we tried three-man rush and we tried five-man rush," Bob Stoops said. "We tried man, we tried zone. We mixed them all up."

The criticism of Mike Stoops might be even greater had Oklahoma's offense not matched Texas Tech big play for big play. The Sooners also gained 854 yards, second-most in school history. Baker Mayfield threw a school-record seven touchdown passes without an interception and Joe Mixon gained 377 all-purpose yards, second-most in Oklahoma history.

Bob Stoops said confidence on the defensive side is a challenge after an effort like Saturday's, but he believes things will change.

"We have faith in our guys," he said. "We're going to coach them to be better and we believe they will be better."

___________________________________________

 

[NDinBoston]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">How we got here: Roster*Attrition <a href="https://t.co/C6jfTzx1nw">https://t.co/C6jfTzx1nw</a></p>— Keith Arnold (@KeithArnold) <a href="https://twitter.com/KeithArnold/status/790176161967984642">October 23, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Good article.

 

[gkIrish]

This guy is delusional:

Notre Dame's Brian Kelly 'disappointed' he needs vote of confidence - CBSSports.com

Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly has the so-called "vote of confidence" from his athletic director, Jack Swarbrick. He's just not happy about it.

At 2-5 and coming off a bye week, the Irish have been one of college football's biggest busts. Naturally, there have been questions about Kelly's job security, which Swarbrick addressed. But speaking to reporters on Tuesday, Kelly said he was "disappointed" in the need for a vote of confidence (via ESPN):

"Well I was disappointed actually. But anytime that your athletic director has to come out and say that, as a head coach you're disappointed that any kind of comments like that have to be made. So I didn't ask him, that was his decision, but I clearly understand what he was doing. He was probably sick and tired of being sick and tired, too. But for me it's disappointing, certainly, that you have to make those comments."
Kelly had a 55-23 record at Notre Dame over the past six years coming into the season, averaging about nine wins a season. While that won't always cut it at a place like Notre Dame, it's still nine wins a season. Guessing Kelly will survive one bad year -- he hasn't had a losing record in South Bend -- is a safe bet. So in that way, yes, Kelly has some reason to be disappointed if he feels like his job security isn't even worth addressing.

At the same time, this has been a surprisingly bad year for the Irish. The defense was a mess under Brian VanGorder, who was let go midseason, and Kelly has experimented with using quarterbacks DeShone Kizer and Malik Zaire with little success.

Questions about Kelly's job security are going to come up, warranted or not. The "no comment" approach doesn't always help, either. If Swarbrick felt like the best thing to do was issue a short statement debunking murmurs, which he did, then that's his prerogative.

Either way, Kelly and Swarbrick will be ready to move on from this season once it's over.

*Btw my interpretation of the bolded is that BK is disappointed in Jack for doing it.

 

[Irish Insanity]

 

[IrishLax]

This guy is delusional:

Notre Dame's Brian Kelly 'disappointed' he needs vote of confidence - CBSSports.com



*Btw my interpretation of the bolded is that BK is disappointed in Jack for doing it.

I watched the presser, he was clearly communicating that he was "disappointed" that the season is so bad that Jack had to give a "vote of confidence." It was 0% throwing shade at Swarbrick for doing it, regardless of how you read transcript.

 

[ThePiombino]

This guy is delusional:

Notre Dame's Brian Kelly 'disappointed' he needs vote of confidence - CBSSports.com



*Btw my interpretation of the bolded is that BK is disappointed in Jack for doing it.

Naturally that would be your interpretation seeing as you're heavily biased against him. That is absolutely not what it meant though. It was meant as he is disappointed that it's happening, not at Jack for doing so. There is no way Kelly would come out and attack the AD in public like that. No way in hell.

 

[gkIrish]

I watched the presser, he was clearly communicating that he was "disappointed" that the season is so bad that Jack had to give a "vote of confidence." It was 0% throwing shade at Swarbrick for doing it, regardless of how you read transcript.

I guess I'll take your word for it. Not sure what else he could have meant by using the word "actually" and "So I didn't ask him, that was his decision."

Even if it's not what he meant, more fodder for the media.

 

[irishff1014]

I watched the presser, he was clearly communicating that he was "disappointed" that the season is so bad that Jack had to give a "vote of confidence." It was 0% throwing shade at Swarbrick for doing it, regardless of how you read transcript.

The beach comment would have sent him in to afib or something lol.

 

[dwshade]

I watched the presser, he was clearly communicating that he was "disappointed" that the season is so bad that Jack had to give a "vote of confidence." It was 0% throwing shade at Swarbrick for doing it, regardless of how you read transcript.

I saw the presser as well and it was clearly as you described it. Amazing anyone would take it any other way.