Breaking: Boston Marathon Explosion

[bkess8]

He made a decision to participate in an act of terrorism against people of the United States, I for one am glad that he was given the death penalty!

 

[irishroo]

I agree. They gave him exactly what he wanted instead of a lifetime of punishment.

I find it hard to believe that inmates would have made his life easy. He deserved a slow, painful life of agony. Not a quick, and high profile, martyrdom. I'm sure radicals will see this as a win against the western world.

Just my opinion...

I agree with you in that I wish he hadn't gotten death, but I don't know that the bolded part is particularly relevant. Had he not been sentenced to death he almost certainly would spend the rest of his life in the supermax facility in Colorado, where he'd have virtually no contact with another human being ever again. I might argue that this is an even worse fate than anything fellow inmates could do to him, but regardless it's not like they were just gonna throw him in gen pop.

 

[kmoose]

Setting moral arguments aside, martyring Tsarnaev is a bad idea for lots of pragmatic reasons, too.

But which is worse? A dead martyr, or a live recruiter living in arguably the easiest place to turn people against the government?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

not buying the martyr bit either there's enough people who want to do exactly what he did regardless of whether he dies or not.

For Islamic radicals like Tsarnaev, execution is much more glorious end than slowly rotting to death in a Federal super max. Other disaffected young men like him will take note.

What makes you think that he wants death? If he doesn't drop his appeals, he probably does not want death. I regularly hear opponents of capital punishment say that that life in prison is worse than execution, but very few capital offenders willingly drop their appeals in order to get executed, so they do not seem to think it is worse.

Based on what I've read, it's not so much the execution itself, as having to live under its shadow while our interminable appeals process plays itself out. Psychological torture.

But which is worse? A dead martyr, or a live recruiter living in arguably the easiest place to turn people against the government?

If that's a serious concern, the authorities can stick him in solitary.

Our government is painfully inept at combating radical Islam on an ideological level. Here was an easy opportunity to deny a would-be martyr his glorious mortal exit, and we (predictably) failed to do so simply because the death penalty makes us feel tough.

 

[irishroo]

But which is worse? A dead martyr, or a live recruiter living in arguably the easiest place to turn people against the government?

I noted this in an earlier response, but tsarnaev would have zero contact with other prisoners to recruit at the prison he'd be going to had he not been sentenced to death.

 

[pumpdog20]

Islamic terrorist aren't going to celebrate his actions any less just because he might not have gotten the death penalty. They applaud the terror not the "death or prison" aspect.

Better to be rid of this man, the sooner the better.

 

[Irish YJ]

As a Christian, I'd prefer he'd gift life. As an American, to Whiskey's point, I'd prefer to feel tough. Just being honest.

 

[Emcee77]

For Islamic radicals like Tsarnaev, execution is much more glorious end than slowly rotting to death in a Federal super max. Other disaffected young men like him will take note.



Based on what I've read, it's not so much the execution itself, as having to live under its shadow while our interminable appeals process plays itself out. Psychological torture.



If that's a serious concern, the authorities can stick him in solitary.

Our government is painfully inept at combating radical Islam on an ideological level. Here was an easy opportunity to deny a would-be martyr his glorious mortal exit, and we (predictably) failed to do so simply because the death penalty makes us feel tough.

Right.

Anyone who doubts it, you might check out this podcast:
Outside Westgate - Radiolab

It's a fascinating story, just generally. And one of the points they make is that part of what made analysts sure, in spite of reports to the contrary, that none of the terrorists escaped from the Westgate Mall attack is that, just generally, Islamic radicals would consider an escape a failure. For example, there's evidence that the Mumbai attackers were told, mid-attack, that the mission is not complete until you die.

Now we are completing Tsarnaev's mission for him.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Islamic terrorist aren't going to celebrate his actions any less just because he might not have gotten the death penalty. They applaud the terror not the "death or prison" aspect.

You're right that they're not going to view the attack any differently. But executing Tsarnaev will make it much easier for others to lionize the man himself as an Islamic martyr who struck a mighty blow against the Great Satan. We had an opportunity to deny them that recruiting angle here, and failed to take it... for what? Killing him will not bring any of the victims back to life.

The Tsarnaevs proved that a couple of disaffected losers without any sort of network or training could still cause significant damage on US soil. That's a really dangerous f*cking lesson that our government should be trying its level best to downplay. But instead they're going to make this guy a hero and shout that lesson from the rooftops by killing him.

 

[pumpdog20]

You're right that they're not going to view the attack any differently. But executing Tsarnaev will make it much easier for others to lionize the man himself as an Islamic martyr who struck a mighty blow against the Great Satan. We had an opportunity to deny them that recruiting angle here, and failed to take it... for what? Killing him will not bring any of the victims back to life.

The Tsarnaevs proved that a couple of disaffected losers without any sort of network or training could still cause significant damage on US soil. That's a really dangerous f*cking lesson that our government should be trying its level best to downplay. But instead they're going to make this guy a hero and shout that lesson from the rooftops by killing him.

This is what is going to help in their recruitment, not the fact that he is going to be executed. The whole martyr angle is something cute the recruiters tell the soon to be deceased to get them to pull off the act. When these guys are sitting around watching "highlight" videos of acts of terror, they're not omitting the ones where the perpetrator didn't get killed.

These guys get their recruits because they hate the west, not because a guy pulled a bombing and was executed. Just my opinion.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This is what is going to help in their recruitment, not the fact that he is going to be executed. The whole martyr angle is something cute the recruiters tell the soon to be deceased to get them to pull off the act. When these guys are sitting around watching "highlight" videos of acts of terror, they're not omitting the ones where the perpetrator didn't get killed.

These guys get their recruits because they hate the west, not because a guy pulled a bombing and was executed. Just my opinion.

Have you read much on the psychology behind Islamic radicals? Because what you're asserting contradicts basically everything I've read on the subject.

There are shiftless and anxious young men in every country (including the US) who are looking for an ideology to dignify them and give their lives purpose. Most terrorists become radicalized because Islamism offers them exactly that; not primarily because they hate the West. A decadent crusading West led by the US is part of the narrative they end up buying into, but it's the positive portion that sells them.

 

[phgreek]

Setting moral arguments aside, martyring Tsarnaev is a bad idea for lots of pragmatic reasons, too.

I used to think this way...but as of late, I've kinda changed my mind. When we have 3rd graders sending get well cards to Mumia Abu-Jamal, who should be dead...and a media obsessed with ratings...that little shit storm serves to revicitmize everyone. Leaving evil people on the earth seems to subject their direct victims and all of us to their evil over and over.

I'm kinda of the mindset we end him, and let time erase him. Killing this guy won't make a difference in our immediate security...and yea I'll have to answer for my view on this, but by the time I'm done the list will be long and cringe-worthy anyway.

 

[pumpdog20]

Have you read much on the psychology behind Islamic radicals? Because what you're asserting contradicts basically everything I've read on the subject.

There are shiftless and anxious young men in every country (including the US) who are looking for an ideology to dignify them and give their lives purpose. Most terrorists become radicalized because Islamism offers them exactly that; not primarily because they hate the West. A decadent crusading West led by the US is part of the narrative they end up buying into, but it's the positive portion that sells them.

You seem to be taking this deeper than it needs to be. Ending this guys life is not going to aide in recruiting any more radicals then his successful actions already have. A prospective jihadists is not going to be swayed on whether or not this guy is a martyr.

 

[MNIrishman]

You seem to be taking this deeper than it needs to be. Ending this guys life is not going to aide in recruiting any more radicals then his successful actions already have. A prospective jihadists is not going to be swayed on whether or not this guy is a martyr.

Except Whiskey is saying that all the evidence from cultural anthropology indicates that you're wrong here and your gut feeling isn't a form of proof to the contrary.

 

[pumpdog20]

Except Whiskey is saying that all the evidence from cultural anthropology indicates that you're wrong here and your gut feeling isn't a form of proof to the contrary.

Go ahead and live in a fantasy land where we would have prevented future jihadists by simply not executing this guy.

 

[Grahambo]

You seem to be taking this deeper than it needs to be. Ending this guys life is not going to aide in recruiting any more radicals then his successful actions already have. A prospective jihadists is not going to be swayed on whether or not this guy is a martyr.

Go ahead and live in a fantasy land where we would have prevented future jihadists by simply not executing this guy.

Not sure what you do for a living but what I do for a living is read about terrorism and help to counter it. They will absolutely use his death for recruitment purposes so while he may not personally have any role in it, its exactly what they all want. You should see the raw footage we get to watch of videos from overseas. They absolutely view death as some kind of top notch honor. They celebrate these suicide bombers like you wouldn't believe. Its not going to make or break the war over there but its another tool in their tool belt.

Life in prison > death penalty in this particular case.

 

[woolybug25]

Go ahead and live in a fantasy land where we would have prevented future jihadists by simply not executing this guy.

I'm not sure you quite understand how martyrdom works or how important it is the jihadists. If you did, you wouldn't be telling all of us that we are "living in fantasy land" when we tell you that all imperial evidence shows that his death will be seen as a victory.

Also, you're the one just "going with your gut" while the rest of us are going off of actual facts. So who is really living in "fantasy land"?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'm not sure you quite understand how martyrdom works or how important it is the jihadists. If you did, you wouldn't be telling all of us that we are "living in fantasy land" when we tell you that all imperial evidence shows that his death will be seen as a victory.

Also, you're the one just "going with your gut" while the rest of us are going off of actual facts. So who is really living in "fantasy land"?

Imperial or empirical?

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[woolybug25]

Imperial or empirical?

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Ha!

That too...

 

[IrishinSyria]

TBF, there are plenty of examples of radical Islamists gaining martyr-like fame through imprisonment. Sayyid Qutb was probably the most famous.

 

[woolybug25]

TBF, there are plenty of examples of radical Islamists gaining martyr-like fame through imprisonment. Sayyid Qutb was probably the most famous.

He was held in an Egyptian prison and given the opportunity to write. That isn't what life in Supermax is like. Hell, they even let him out of prison after he wrote his two books on Islam.

He took on martyr status after his death and that is what elevated him.