Beating the SEC

[GoldenToTheGrave]

So with the conclusion the Sugar Bowl (which made me a happy camper), there are a few things I'd like to point out. Two of the last 3 teams to beat Alabama have been big 12 teams (I still consider 2012 A&M a Big 12 team). Both ran spread offenses and fast, attacking defenses. When playing from behind, Alabama struggled against both Oklahoma and A&M's pass rush and was unable to match teams that were on paper inferior at virtually every level.

Compare this to 2012 ND, which was built very much like an SEC team on defense. Despite shutting down many powerful running attacks, including MSU and Stanford, we got beat at every level on defense, despite having a 2nd rounder MLB, 2 1-2nd round picks on the d-line, another NFL quality d-lineman, and several other quality players. Alabama's offense is built to run the ball, and the level of talent is high enough that nobody has really had success doing it, including ND, Georgia, Auburn, LSU, and even Oklahoma tonight.

Everyone would like to build their team like an Alabama--after all, they've only lost 4 games in the past 3 years. But not every team can recruit the top class in the country more often than not. ND had as good of a front 7 was as good as any in the country last year, and one we may not be able to recreate for the foreseeable future, and was still got embarrassed. Should we decided to go in a new direction as a team? After watching the Sugar Bowl tonight I'm not so sure we shouldn't.

 

[Irish8248]

Saban can't win big games without 3 wks of prep

Honestly -- Were not missing that many pieces. We could've beaten Bama, we had the talent and a legit (not great) game plan, but we deserved to lose. From what I watched tonight, Ok made far less mental mistakes than we did (penalties, tackling, execution) and they were opportunistic.. I think that was the real difference, besides the obvious of different players different years

 

[phork]

And OU didn't get hosed by the refs... McCarrons gf is also very real...

 

[Buster Bluth]

So with the conclusion the Sugar Bowl (which made me a happy camper), there are a few things I'd like to point out. Two of the last 3 teams to beat Alabama have been big 12 teams (I still consider 2012 A&M a Big 12 team). Both ran spread offenses and fast, attacking defenses. When playing from behind, Alabama struggled against both Oklahoma and A&M's pass rush and was unable to match teams that were on paper inferior at virtually every level.

Compare this to 2012 ND, which was built very much like an SEC team on defense. Despite shutting down many powerful running attacks, including MSU and Stanford, we got beat at every level on defense, despite having a 2nd rounder MLB, 2 1-2nd round picks on the d-line, another NFL quality d-lineman, and several other quality players. Alabama's offense is built to run the ball, and the level of talent is high enough that nobody has really had success doing it, including ND, Georgia, Auburn, LSU, and even Oklahoma tonight.

Everyone would like to build their team like an Alabama--after all, they've only lost 4 games in the past 3 years. But not every team can recruit the top class in the country more often than not. ND had as good of a front 7 was as good as any in the country last year, and one we may not be able to recreate for the foreseeable future, and was still got embarrassed. Should we decided to go in a new direction as a team? After watching the Sugar Bowl tonight I'm not so sure we shouldn't.

You're taking way too much out of the national championship game.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

You're taking way too much out of the national championship game.

Just trying to add something to the discussion. My point is that nobody (not that I follow all Alabama games) has really stood up to Alabama when it comes to their power running game, and trying to out-strength their offense is a fool's errand. Oklahoma's defense played much better than ours did last year, even though our defense had considerably more talent IMO and was built around stopping the run.

Perhaps based on the schedule we play, the kind of defense we've used could be the best to do the job. But we will loose every time playing a team like Alabama playing the kind of defense we've played in the Kelly era.

 

[irishfan]

Should be re-named beating Bama, not the SEC, and Saban has never been able to stop a real spread offense.

 

[GATTACA!]

Just trying to add something to the discussion. My point is that nobody (not that I follow all Alabama games) has really stood up to Alabama when it comes to their power running game, and trying to out-strength their offense is a fool's errand. Oklahoma's defense played much better than ours did last year, even though our defense had considerably more talent IMO and was built around stopping the run.

Perhaps based on the schedule we play, the kind of defense we've used could be the best to do the job. But we will loose every time playing a team like Alabama playing the kind of defense we've played in the Kelly era.

They gave up over 500 yards of total offense and 31 points, despite having 4 TOs (Not counting the muffed kick at the end.). Those are not good numbers. 130 of the 500 was on the ground but i would argue that number would be much higher if Alabama wasn't playing from behind most of the night, nothing to do with Oklahoma's D.

ND got down big early and played right into Alabama's hand. OK was able to get out in front and make Alabama play a style they are not used to, which frankly they still did damn well.

 

[ickythump1225]

The answer to beating Nick Saban appears to be run a high powered spread no huddle offense. I don't know that anyone could ever consistently beat Saban by trying to out muscle Alabama. It just won't happen.

As it is, the Alabama way is a dying breed. "Smashmouth" football is on the outs. The legal issues that stem from brain trauma related to football activities coupled with new rules that favor the offense over the defense every year mean that high scoring and fast pasted offense is here to stay. Smart teams will adjust accordingly and find a way to thrive.

 

[CTHindman]

What I saw that really impressed me was the speed rush on the outside from Stricker (sp?). He hit AJ more times last night than he had been hit all year. AJ looked scared most of the game.

 

[Irish#1]

TO's killed Bama. They looked bigger, faster and stronger than OU. The up tempo was a good plan, but the biggest piece of the up tempo snapping the ball early which didn't allow Bama to make many adjustments on defense.

 

[SoJerseyIrish]

TO's killed Bama. They looked bigger, faster and stronger than OU. The up tempo was a good plan, but the biggest piece of the up tempo snapping the ball early which didn't allow Bama to make many adjustments on defense.

I agree, OU looked small compared to Alabama, just my untrained observation. The size of everyone on both O and D for Alabama just seemed much larger than OU, they had huge LB's, huge RB's, huge WR's. Take those turnovers away and it's a different story.

 

[Irish#1]

I agree, OU looked small compared to Alabama, just my untrained observation. The size of everyone on both O and D for Alabama just seemed much larger than OU, they had huge LB's, huge RB's, huge WR's. Take those turnovers away and it's a different story.

Yeah, OU wasn't stopping Bama from moving the ball.

 

[woolybug25]

Should be re-named beating Bama, not the SEC, and Saban has never been able to stop a real spread offense.

This.

I'm pretty sure we could take Kentucky.

 

[Irish YJ]

This.

I'm pretty sure we could take Kentucky.

Is that with, or without Elam?

 

[Irish#1]

This.

I'm pretty sure we could take Kentucky.

No way, they're in the SEC!

 

[Emcee77]

They gave up over 500 yards of total offense and 31 points, despite having 4 TOs (Not counting the muffed kick at the end.). Those are not good numbers. 130 of the 500 was on the ground but i would argue that number would be much higher if Alabama wasn't playing from behind most of the night, nothing to do with Oklahoma's D.

ND got down big early and played right into Alabama's hand. OK was able to get out in front and make Alabama play a style they are not used to, which frankly they still did damn well.

This, exactly. OU did not stop Alabama. Alabama stopped themselves a couple times with turnovers, on which OU capitalized, forcing Alabama to play from behind. For me the takeaway from last night's game was not defensive ... it was offensive. OU scored on its first 5 possessions or something like that, rigth? You score on Alabama by spreading the field and getting the ball to shifty receivers who are quick enough to make tacklers miss on short receptions and fast enough to get behind the defense for long bombs. Oh, and you should have a RED HOT quarterback who plays the GAME OF HIS LIFE. We shouldn't discount that last part ... Bama could not have been expecting Trevor Knight to play that well. He consistently made really tough throws all night long and he wasn't even a regular starter coming in, right?

 

[NDinL.A.]

This, exactly. OU did not stop Alabama. Alabama stopped themselves a couple times with turnovers, on which OU capitalized, forcing Alabama to play from behind. For me the takeaway from last night's game was not defensive ... it was offensive. OU scored on its first 5 possessions or something like that, rigth? You score on Alabama by spreading the field and getting the ball to shifty receivers who are quick enough to make tacklers miss on short receptions and fast enough to get behind the defense for long bombs. Oh, and you should have a RED HOT quarterback who plays the GAME OF HIS LIFE. We shouldn't discount that last part ... Bama could not have been expecting Trevor Knight to play that well. He consistently made really tough throws all night long and he wasn't even a regular starter coming in, right?

Watching that first quarter, I kept thinking to myself, "He's Gardnering them." Devin Gardner did the exact same thing to us. Bama had really tight coverage in that first half, and he was throwing laser beams where only his guy could catch it. He was insanely good last night...

 

[drayer54]

Beating the SEC starts with beating them at the All-American game.... Did we even get one name yesterday?

 

[woolybug25]

Beating the SEC starts with beating them at the All-American game.... Did we even get one name yesterday?

We had 6 current commits at the game. That's more than a lot of the SEC teams.

 

[drayer54]

We had 6 current commits at the game. That's more than a lot of the SEC teams.

True, just disappointing to see all of the gameday commits going to more prestigous universities like the "University of LSU"

The DE that picked A&M looked the most impressive to me. Myles Garret looked like a future stud.

 

[woolybug25]

True, just disappointing to see all of the gameday commits going to more prestigous universities like the "University of LSU"

The DE that picked A&M looked the most impressive to me. Myles Garret looked like a future stud.

Well... watch the Army All American game tomorrow. I think you will be happy.

 

[NDinL.A.]

True, just disappointing to see all of the gameday commits going to more prestigous universities like the "University of LSU"

Problem is, for the most part, ND just doesn't get guys like that. We recruit them, sure, but those types of players for the most part aren't going to choose ND. We just don't attract that type of player. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I'll give you an example of an absolute joke of a 'commitment' that will happen tomorrow. A TE out of CA named Bryce Dixon is going to announce for UCLA tomorrow. Thing is, he still has plans to visit both UCLA and USC, and he's still not sure who he will sign with. A source close to him admits that he's doing it for the attention and the limelight it brings, but his commitment will probably be close to 40%-50% solid to UCLA. WTF???

I'm not saying that ND NEVER gets these guys to commit at the games, but they just don't happen very often. Sometimes, the drama filled recruitments work out in ND's favor, like with Aaron Lynch, Tee Shepard, and Eddie Vanderdoes. So it CAN happen.

Wait, what were we talking about?

 

[wizards8507]

I'm not saying that ND NEVER gets these guys to commit at the games, but they just don't happen very often. Sometimes, the drama filled recruitments work out in ND's favor, like with Aaron Lynch, Tee Shepard, and Eddie Vanderdoes. So it CAN happen.

How did any of those work out in ND's favor?

 

[dublinirish]

I'll give you an example of an absolute joke of a 'commitment' that will happen tomorrow. A TE out of CA named Bryce Dixon is going to announce for UCLA tomorrow. Thing is, he still has plans to visit both UCLA and USC, and he's still not sure who he will sign with. A source close to him admits that he's doing it for the attention and the limelight it brings, but his commitment will probably be close to 40%-50% solid to UCLA. WTF???

Not as bad as that kid who decommitted from Bama so he could go on TV and recommit to them because he wanted the attention.

 

[NDinL.A.]

How did any of those work out in ND's favor?

Dude, it was a joke.

 

[phork]

Wait, what were we talking about?

SEC not PAC12 yo...

 

[stlnd01]

Like Emcee said, OU beat 'Bama on offense, not on defense. With the spread and the tempo and the accuracy of their QB (they couldn't run for squat). They did get enough pressure on McCarron to force a few uncharacteristic mistakes. And then they capitalized on them. But for much of the game Alabama was moving the ball at will. I didn't see anything last night that'd make me rethink Notre Dame's basic approach to defense. It just made me look forward to a more aggressive and capable offense next year.

 

[Jerry]

Here's the major differences in last nights Sugar Bowl vs. last years NCG the way I see it:

1. Being ready to play from the first snap. Kelly said in the weeks following the NC last year that they weren't deep enough to go live in practice, because the loss of a key offensive or D-lineman would be devastating. So you saw an ND team that hadn't tackled anybody in 7 weeks miss tackles the entire 1st half. Alabama is like 4 deep at every position with AA's so they can beat the crap out of each other for a month and a half before a bowl game. Oklahoma looked ready to play. It's a recruiting issue that shouldn't be as much of problem in the future for ND if they keep getting solid classes but in Kelly's 3rd year it was a problem. No need to change the defensive philosophy.

2. Capitalize on opportunities when they present themselves. First couple long TD passes for OK in the first half were perfect throws that had no room for error. ND had Eifert open on the first couple plays in the NCG but missed a few opportunities that wouldn't have stuck the Defense right back on the field and could have controlled the momentum of the game. ND also needed some breaks to go their way, like OK got last night. Didn't happen

3. This is more speculation but I don't think Bama was up for this game like they were last year. Not surprisingly they probably figured they would walk all over a team that got beat by Texas by 3 scores. I sort of hoped they would take ND for granted last year but I remember reading Bama players quotes saying how ND looked like an SEC team and how much they respected them. Mindset can mean a lot.

 

[NCND]

Here's the major differences in last nights Sugar Bowl vs. last years NCG the way I see it:

1. Being ready to play from the first snap. Kelly said in the weeks following the NC last year that they weren't deep enough to go live in practice, because the loss of a key offensive or D-lineman would be devastating. So you saw an ND team that hadn't tackled anybody in 7 weeks miss tackles the entire 1st half. Alabama is like 4 deep at every position with AA's so they can beat the crap out of each other for a month and a half before a bowl game. Oklahoma looked ready to play. It's a recruiting issue that shouldn't be as much of problem in the future for ND if they keep getting solid classes but in Kelly's 3rd year it was a problem. No need to change the defensive philosophy.

2. Capitalize on opportunities when they present themselves. First couple long TD passes for OK in the first half were perfect throws that had no room for error. ND had Eifert open on the first couple plays in the NCG but missed a few opportunities that wouldn't have stuck the Defense right back on the field and could have controlled the momentum of the game. ND also needed some breaks to go their way, like OK got last night. Didn't happen

3. This is more speculation but I don't think Bama was up for this game like they were last year. Not surprisingly they probably figured they would walk all over a team that got beat by Texas by 3 scores. I sort of hoped they would take ND for granted last year but I remember reading Bama players quotes saying how ND looked like an SEC team and how much they respected them. Mindset can mean a lot.

Chill with the "they wasn't ready to play or didn't wanna be there" talk. All the pregame talk from Bama players are that they gonna prove that their are the best team I'm the country. Now, all of a sudden they didn't wanna be there? Get the F outta here with that.

 

[anarin]

So what happened to this big bad SEC?

Iowa hung with lsu, IOWA!!!!
Nebraska and Wisconsin had good games, with one winning .
Duke should've beat Texas a&m. Hard to overcome blown calls

Then you have Bama losing. So how many media hype top 10 sec teams will we have in the preseason poll?