Another Shooting

[irishff1014]

Something must be done. At this point I am fine with blaming the NRA for all these shootings and all the politicians who have taken their money.

I deleted my comments towards Cack because i like the actually like the football talk on here and it isn't worth arguing with him.

 

[Cackalacky]

My simple answer is higher rates/easier accessibility, bigger caches in households that do have guns, improved and more diverse types of weapons along with higher capacities of magazines and lethality.

I guess what I am getting at is in 1972 a household might have one or two handguns, a shotgun/rifle or such.

Now we have households with multiple handguns, multiple AR's, high capacity mags, body armor,semi and autos...

Even if you were a crazy AF in 1972, You were'nt going out with a six shooter and rifle and killing 17 people.

Its terribly complex and I dont have any answers at all really.

 

[Cackalacky]

I deleted my comments towards Cack because i like the actually like the football talk on here and it isn't worth arguing with him.

I appreciate it. Its no secret I loathe guns and I have come by that honestly IMO due to extreme levels of gun violence in my family and friend history. I dont begrudge anyone of their opinion on this issue.

 

[Cackalacky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2018 is watching children live tweet mass shootings while other kids who've survived school shootings talk them through it</p>— Muna Mire (@Muna_Mire) <a href="https://twitter.com/Muna_Mire/status/963880276689653760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 14, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[wizards8507]

I think one of the reasons we are seeing mass shootings increase in the USA is because these people see that they can do it, from a cultural view point. This is hard for me to explain, so I apologize in advance.

Like Bishop said before, it was super common for teenagers and young adults to carry pocket knives, even guns with them in everyday life. Hell, I live in a rural area, and many used to come to school with their rifle or shotgun in their pickup on the rack so they could hunt before school and after. Culturally here, it was acceptable to have guns, BUT also to know proper safety.

Fast forward to today. With the lack of mental health funding, access to guns, access to disturbing web pages/social media/etc., violent games (which I do enjoy), and the, what I believe, TOTAL lack of cultural empathy towards our neighbors, we are seeing young people (mostly male) act out in these aggressive mass shootings. Lax touched upon individualism in a previous post, and I agree with him. We are all so sheltered from the outside world, so protected from consequences as well, that we are no longer living within communities, but rather almost a VR where we are merely a character.

I completely agree with the last paragraph, but I don't think "gun culture" that you talk about in the second paragraph plays much of a role. There's no place in the country with less of a gun culture than Newtown, Connecticut.

 

[irishff1014]

Your right we do have our own individual opinions. And this like other topics get heated and i am a passionate and things come out that shouldn't.

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">THREAD: An open letter to <a href="https://twitter.com/KitDaniels1776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KitDaniels1776</a>, who is a reporter for <a href="https://twitter.com/infowars?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Infowars</a> and a vile maggot. <a href="https://t.co/LA8rT25dTr">pic.twitter.com/LA8rT25dTr</a></p>— Respectable Lawyer (@RespectableLaw) <a href="https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/status/964187511017869316?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2018</a></blockquote>
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Savage takedown of Infowars.

 

[Legacy]

As discussed in another thread, few of these type of incidents could be stopped with increased funding for mental health. Few of these people, if identified earlier, could have mental health intervention that would prevent this. Mental health funding is badly needed for other reasons. Should someone be brought to the ER, they are assessed for mental competence and for imminent danger to others. Someone can refuse to answer questions or say that a violent outburst was temporary and then be discharged if they did not commit a crime. To place a hold on someone who was verbally threatening who has not committed a crime and who is mentally competent without representation violates other Constitutional rights. Some psychiatric facilities may have a regular court connected with them should the police bring someone like this killer to the ER, which resolves some problems. Most do not. If a societal choice is made and such laws are passed and make it through the judicial system, what then? Would the mental health system be expected to house these individuals for what length of time? When are they not a danger to society? You could classify many of these people as anti-social personalities. Personality disorders are particularly difficult to treat and done mainly through individual outpatient counseling and therapy and are life-long.

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: Leader of white nationalist group has confirmed suspect in Florida school shooting was member of his organization.</p>— The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/status/964195101621870594?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2018</a></blockquote>
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[GowerND11]

I completely agree with the last paragraph, but I don't think "gun culture" that you talk about in the second paragraph plays much of a role. There's no place in the country with less of a gun culture than Newtown, Connecticut.

I don't mean that these areas, like my own, are more violent and prone to gun violence/mass shootings. What I was saying was now, even in these ares we have had to adjust our culture to not allow life to continue as it was despite no shootings, incidents, etc.

I assume that's what you were referring to?

 

[Cackalacky]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says?ref=home

 

[wizards8507]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says?ref=home

Republic of Florida should immediately be labeled a domestic terrorist organization and dealt with accordingly.

 

[Bishop2b5]

I heard yesterday that there is software readily available to make this type of rifle on a 3D printer as we speak. How will any new/existing gun laws prevent someone from making their own if this is true?

They won't. I remember my dad telling me that when he was a teenager, he made a gun in shop class and actually fired it a couple of times. Accurate at 100 yds or semi-automatic? No, but damned deadly and effective up close. Anyone with a good set of tools and a few dollars worth of supplies from Menards could make a usable gun in a few hours.

 

[Meatloaf]

Republic of Florida should immediately be labeled a domestic terrorist organization and dealt with accordingly.

The only problem is the Trump administration isn't doing jack shit about white supremacist groups:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...program-solely-on-islam-sources-idUSKBN15G5VO

 

[wizards8507]

The only problem is the Trump administration isn't doing jack shit about white supremacist groups:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...program-solely-on-islam-sources-idUSKBN15G5VO

Maybe I've missed something, but isn't this the first white supremacist group to get outright violent? There are lots of hate groups out there, but they're still protected by the First Amendment until the point when they start murdering people.

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[Meatloaf]

Maybe I've missed something, but isn't this the first white supremacist group to get outright violent? There are lots of hate groups out there, but they're still protected by the First Amendment until the point when they start murdering people.

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Far from it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nb...most-extremist-killings-2017-adl-says-n838896

 

[wizards8507]

Far from it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nb...most-extremist-killings-2017-adl-says-n838896

Dig into those statistics. They're extremely misleading. For example, Devon Arthurs murdered his neo-Nazi roommates after he converted to Islam, and the Anti-Defamation League called that "right wing extremism." Another guy stabbed his parents and he was included in the right wing extremism statistic because he "believed in conspiracy theories." They also included a Bernie Sanders guy who killed two people as a right-wing white supremacist. They're extremely careless (i.e. dishonest) in how they define their terms.

Regardless, most white supremacists (from what I can tell) seem to be lone assholes and/or small groups of assholes, even the violent ones. They're not ISIS. This Republic of Florida is different, because it's an actual group with stated political goals that include violence against the United States.

To be clear, I'm not saying that being a lone racist is somehow better than joining a racist group, but I think it's relevant in how we define terrorism. Terrorism (IMO) requires that it 1) be a group, 2) be violent, and 3) have stated (or implied) religious, political, social goals.

 

[phgreek]

What's sick here is people are clearly waiting for THIS... the primary concern for so many isn't the event, or the families of the deceased, it's, 'okay let's all hope he's 'one of them' so we can use it.' I'm just sick to my stomach over everything and then before the sun even rises on the next day this dynamic sets in and just adds to the nausea.

YUP...and the unbridled political motivations to win at any cost thieve empathy, compassion, community from the discourse...things that help people through tragedy.

Prayers for all impacted by this...the sense of frustration and sadness I feel is nothing compared to moms and dads who lost their kids.

 

[Cackalacky]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One could say same about abortion: women who wish to terminate their pregnancy will find a way to do it. They always have, over time and geography. Yet Rubio opposes legalized abortion which, by his logic here, is pointless. Perhaps he is an incoherent and disingenuous thinker. <a href="https://t.co/7me3ALkZRP">https://t.co/7me3ALkZRP</a></p>— Richard Yeselson (@yeselson) <a href="https://twitter.com/yeselson/status/964243815623163911?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One could say same about abortion: women who wish to terminate their pregnancy will find a way to do it. They always have, over time and geography. Yet Rubio opposes legalized abortion which, by his logic here, is pointless. Perhaps he is an incoherent and disingenuous thinker. <a href="https://t.co/7me3ALkZRP">https://t.co/7me3ALkZRP</a></p>— Richard Yeselson (@yeselson) <a href="https://twitter.com/yeselson/status/964243815623163911?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 15, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow, that logic is unbelievably twisted. Rubio is against abortion, he's not trying to ban fucking forceps and scissors.

Forceps : Abortion :: Guns : Murder

The evil thing is the thing you make illegal, not the tool used to carry it out (assuming the tool has other legitimate uses).

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[wizards8507]

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[Cackalacky]

Wow, that logic is unbelievably twisted. Rubio is against abortion, he's not trying to ban fucking forceps and scissors.

Forceps : Abortion :: Guns : Murder

The evil thing is the thing you make illegal, not the tool used to carry it out (assuming the tool has other legitimate uses).

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You clearly aren’t up to speed on all the ways anti abortion legislation attacks tools, office spaces, etc at clinics. They have even tried to reclassify clinics as non-hospital facilities due to door widths in the clinics not meeting modern hospital facilities. But ok both are constitutionally protected and he favors strict legislation on one and not the other. It is inconsistent. FTR I think the constitutionality if both should be thoroughly revisited.

 

[wizards8507]

You clearly aren&#146;t up to speed on all the ways anti abortion legislation attacks tools, office spaces, etc at clinics. They have even tried to reclassify clinics as non-hospital facilities due to door widths in the clinics not meeting modern hospital facilities. But ok both are constitutionally protected and he favors strict legislation on one and not the other. It is inconsistent. FTR I think the constitutionality if both should be thoroughly revisited.

Perfect, let's treat abortion clinics exactly the same as gun shops. Background checks for all of the clients and zero federal funding. Oh and a 14 day waiting period for services.

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[Irishize]

Perfect, let's treat abortion clinics exactly the same as gun shops. Background checks for all of the clients and zero federal funding. Oh and a 14 day waiting period for services.

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Abortion rights is to the Left what gun rights are to the Right. They both deem the slightest restriction as a slippery slope that will lead to an all out ban. Abortion is legal. Gun ownership is legal. Murder is illegal.

 

[wizards8507]

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[wizards8507]

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[Cackalacky]

Perfect, let's treat abortion clinics exactly the same as gun shops. Background checks for all of the clients and zero federal funding. Oh and a 14 day waiting period for services.

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What does a background check have to do with an abortion. What information would be gleamed? To what end?

 

[Cackalacky]

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The "he speaks so well" of gun violence.

 

[wizards8507]

What does a background check have to do with an abortion. What information would be gleamed? To what end?

I was being sarcastic. The point being "a gun is not like abortion."

 

[Cackalacky]

I was being sarcastic. The point being "a gun is not like abortion."

Ahhhh I thought you were being legitimately open-minded there. My bad.